@ Desmond: The student-athlete concept only "breaks down" for those that are mathematically challenge. When you consider that less that 1% of college football players will EVER cash a check for playing football, you are forced to come to the realization that almost all of them are playing football for a free education. What you suffer from is what I call a 1% problem. Before firing back a ridiculous response, stop for a moment and actually think about it.
There were many of us telling the "time to move on from Matta" crowd (and for the record, I do think it was time), that Ohio State basketball isn't this blue chip program that would result in some big name coach coming in. It seems to me too many people continue to confuse the football and basketball programs as if they are on the same footing. If you were expecting something grander that is because you weren't being honest about this fact.
@OldTownBucknut: Thanks for chiming in Championship Guy. Discussing OSU as one of the "top athletic universities" paints with an unnecessarily broad brush. OSU is a football factory and blue chip program, all the way. But even there, OSU has 2 championships since 1970!! To say that Matta should have had 2 with the basketball program is beyond absurd. As was said in the article, he was a victim of his own success in that he elevated the program to a level of consistency probably never seen here before. But once that happens, then more is expected and less will never be tolerated. I don't feel sorry for coaches when this happens because that is why they are paid the way they are, but I also have no intention of letting fans like this guy come on here and distort reality either. Thank you Thad for all of you gave to The Ohio State University. I hope your health improves and you find peace and solace in life after Buckeye Basketball.
WHY is Athlon putting OSU's third best qb on their cover? /s
For me, it is about the amateur model--the only compensation one should get while in school should come from the school themselves in the form of compensation for going to school (and I am guessing a lot of this money would come from third parties). But, I know others won't see it that way.
"But that success came on the backs of unpaid (I use that word in the sense most workers would be mad if coupons to the company story replaced their weekly paychecks) labor."
Sigh. This again.
Those people who keep advocating that student-athletes get paid do so because they aren't good at basic math and have a 1% problem.
When looking at all three divisions, far less than 1% will EVER collect a check for playing football. That means that these student-athletes are really doing this for a free education, whether they realize it or not. You would never design a system for less than 1%.
Paying all the players (plus possibly all other student-athletes because of Title IX) is not only ridiculous, but would probably bankrupt college sports, as most programs are operating at break-even or in the red. And it would further exacerbate competitive balance issues.
A far more constructive conversation might be allowing players to make money off their likeness (put in a trust fund available 1 year after they leave college), a fund that would help pay for future medical issues, allowing colleges to purchase insurance polices for players (I think this is already the case), and expanding stipends that recognize the demands on players' schedules.
But the only people advocating for payment for all players are people who are confused as to the numbers and those that don't really get what college is supposed to be about. Colleges have been taking advantage of "cheap labor" since, well, their inception, and other than the unique injury issues which could be dealt with in the ways I suggested above, there is really no difference in the football arena except that this is on the idiot box, and when that happens, people lose their damn minds.
Since I want this to stop, I am limiting it to this (and you can have the last word):
common man. It's hard winning games on the road against P5 teams. Every year there are upsets in these situations. JT was the starting qb on a team that went into Norman and beat the Sooners. THEY DON"T LOSE THERE. Stop trying to strip everything away to support your narrative and give credit where credit is due.
Well put. I am in no way suggesting there are not concerns about JT (mechanics, consistency, long ball, etc). But I am tired of him getting stripped of all of his accomplishments because Clemson roughed us up to end last year.
"...but that was an Oklahoma team that doesn't play defense and was clearly overranked to start the season and even fell out of the top 25. Marquee national matchup because of early ranking, not because of how good they were. So we've got one big win here in 3 seasons."
You are rewriting history, my friend. That Oklahoma team didn't lose another regular season game after we played them. Yes, defense had some issues, but if you look at recruiting rankings, they were very talented on D, just young. You are still talking about beating a perennial power on the road. If I am not mistaken, Stoops has lost something like 4 games at home in his coaching career. You are going way out of your way to slight JT's accomplishments, and I don't know why. I would also include other games like the 2014 win over PSU when he gutted it out injured, but I know, you won't count that. Based on what you told me about when you really started following OSU football (not your fault, it is an age thing), I think you just don't know any better.
"With the way Urban has recruited, we have fielded some of the most talented teams Ohio State has ever seen and are far more talented than anybody else we face in the B1G on any given day. Yes, wins should come by pretty easy but no, they are not given."
This is part and parcel of being just a bit spoiled. There is a lot that goes into why this is problematic (recruiting rankings aren't predictors of success 100%, injuries, understanding that there isn't a huge talent gap in most teams starting 22, good old fashoned dumb luck, scheduling, i could go on and on). I don't mean this to sound like excuse making, but last year, OSU was coming off a year where we had I think more guys drafted in the first three rounds than any other school ever (or tied with a few others, I forget). We were replacing 4/5 of our O-line, a first round NFL running back, and we knew that we had at best one reliable WR. No one, Urban included, believed this team was primed for a championship last year (and he said as much). This team over achieved last year (even with great talent) and ran into a Clemson team that was just better. People need to deal with this rather than looking for a scapegoat, which is ALWAYS going to be an overly simplistic analysis of what went wrong in a 31-0 loss.
"Nobody said anything about championships except you. The season is only a complete disappointment if you get shut out in your post-season game 31-0. "
I have to admit, I had a good chuckle over this one. Don't be so literal--"championship guy" is about a mindset that I find in today's fans that places way too much emphasis on a small number of games we have been told are more important. It is a mindset, that you basically admitted to when you called the whole season a disappointment because of the way the last game ended. Um, there were 12 other games played last year my friend. I too didn't like being blown out, but it was one poorly played game (against admittedly he best team we saw last year). I will offer you some unsolicited advice--learn to appreciate ten plus win seasons even if they end like last's years, because it won't always be this good. There is something to be said about being in the championship mix every year, relevant all the way to the end that should have value, because for every school not named Alabama, it just ain't like that. Every program is one bad coaching hire away from mediocrity or worse. Also, almost every season is going to end without Ohio State winning a natty, since only one team is left standing at the end. If this remains your mindset, you are setting yourself up to be miserable most Januarys.
If you read my post to mean that I think Haskins or Burrow are like or will be like Johnson, then you didn't understand my point.
I don't know why I bother with "championship guy*," but here goes:
BIg Stage win = every win in a season where you win a championship. You know why, lose one game and you might be out, two, almost certainly. Only ungrateful fans expect a win every week (just ask Texas fans about this). But I know "championship guy" doesn't like that answer. How you could even begin to talk about "big wins"and not include the win over MSU in 2014 or Oklahoma last year, both marquee national matchups against top 25 teams on the road, speaks volumes about you and what kind of fan you are.
And as for just taking wins over TTUN for granted, maybe you were just a thought running down your pop's leg in the nineties (i don't know, I am guessing here), but those of us who were hard core fans remember that decade well and WILL NEVER TAKE A WIN OVER THEM FOR GRANTED. You won't get this until Meyer moves on and, in all likelihood, we get a lesser coach, the pendulum swings in the rivalry, and we lose to them more often. My guess is that you won't be found around these parts very often.
Burrow, Haskins and Martell put together have accomplished as much at qb at Ohio State as I have in meaningful game situations. I know the allure of the back up qb is strong and fans can't help but think the other guy must be better, and if that is your position, we will have to agree to disagree (seen too many can't miss guys miss). But please knock of the spoiled Buckeye fan routine here and appreciate one of the golden ages of Ohio State football, because it isn't going to last forever. I know the Clemson loss stung, and an opportunity to win a championship went by the wayside, but I promise you, Notre Dame or Texas fans last year would have killed for that season--learn to appreciate 10+ win seasons and a qb that has one of the highest winning percentages in OSU history and many, many, of the school's qb records. Don't be THAT GUY.
Soap box rant over.
* "championship guy believes that only championships matter, so that, a 12-1 season that doesnt end in a championship is a complete disappointment. Championship guy suffers from an inability to understand probability and delusions of grandeur which contribute to this perspective.
Any list that doesn't have a fifth year senior at the most important position on the field in the top five isn't worth any additional discussion IMHO. So I won't.
Please tell me what that confidence is based on? Garbage time and glorified practices? Why can't some just admit that until a player does it on the big stage, you don't know if he is capable of doing it.
I am as big a JT backer as anyone, but after the last 2 years, I would say no at this point.
But, that is vastly different from suggesting a very accomplished fifth year senior isn't indispensable. .
I am sure you do from your position on the hype train. I could point out all the four and five star qb prospects that were "can't miss" but utterly flopped based on their potential and how they looked in practice, but I am not sure it would matter for you (I will give you one, Jeremy Johnson at Auburn). All aboard!!
Glad JT was not only on the list, but # 1. People here seem to undervalue not just what he has done so far, but the value a fifth year senior adds to the most important position in the game.
The core belief is that you should root for the home team. In your case, that resulted in rooting for the Bengals. You have that mixed up. I did not write my piece to make some argument that people should be able to root for whoever they want (in fact, all you know about me if you read these pages is that I am from Cleveland, lived there for 20 years and am a Buckeye fan, you know nothing else), but I am addressing a much more nuanced point. You write, " I do believe that sports teams are an important unifying factor for communities and bring towns/regions together" and "[o]ne can root for whomever one feels like, but you don't generally find longstanding attachments to teams made in the complete absence of community or family influences." My attack on "root for the home team" was not about the principle itself, of which I have no issue, but instead, about this being sold to us in an era where for their greed they think nothing of fleecing a market with this slogan, getting tax dollars for their mulit-billion dollar businesses, then packing up the vans at midnight and moving when they get a sweeter deal somewhere else. Maybe as a Bengals fan you just aren't equipped to understand this. I never accepted Modell moving the Browns, and the 3 teams in the last 15 months finished me off. if this makes me "hipper" than others, something that doesn't matter to me in the least, so be it.
p.s. I"m not a Seahawks fan. You can put the dart board away.
My language wasn't precise. His coverage skills aren't great, and safeties often cover RB's or TE or slot receivers . You may want to claim he is a safety, but this ignores the fact that he played LB the last year and half in college, which means, even UM didn't think he was exactly that. And that was the college level--the pros are a completely different animal. My comment was that he was a tweener, and that stands.
Teams with so many holes don't take "flyers" on guys. Hell, the Pats are loaded, and they don't take flyers. The Pats do draft differently, but that's because they didn't fuck up the last 8 drafts or so. And they don't fire their coach every other year. They don't have an ass clown at the top of the organization (Kraft is a despicable human being, but when it comes to running a pro team, he is a good owner in that he signs the checks then gets the hell out of the way). They can evaluate talent. These are all things the Fake Browns can't do..
You are an unapologetic homer who is making excuses for a franchise that is run vert poorly. You want to waste your time consuming bad entertainment, that is your choice. You come on this site with this bullshit, and well, you aren't going to get away with it.
This is a man after my own heart. My level of hate got ratcheted up a notch after Chudzinski was fired after one season. I can't grasp how anyone can root for this fraudulent team. I hope Modell is rotting in hell.
You are aware, until about a two decades ago, the NFL employed market black outs when the local team played, right, and those were the ONLY games available to the consumer? This was strictly to enforce local monopolies and should have been found to be an illegal restraint on trade--but of course, whatever the NFL wants, they get.
Don't even get me started on Sunday ticket. All this does is epitomize the greed (I will set the scene and you can decide if the terms are acceptable to you). To watch out of market games, all you have to do is buy a tv, a cable package, then shell out more money for a special package to watch the NFL (which last time I was gullible enough to pay this, it was about $300--I know the price has come down). And all of this ignores that one is supposed to digest over two hours of commercials and senseless babble for about 13 1/2 minutes of action (my favorite are the double ups--commercial, back for the touch back, off to commercials again!!). And for this, I am supposed to be grateful? I don't know how much better college is, it is heading in that direction, but at least with a basic cable package i can see up to 30 games each Thursday-Saturday without buying an extra "package."
As for your last remark, " If you want to go into childhood psycho-drama about why you root for the team you do-fine-but don't blame corporations for your neuroses-blame your parents." This is just babble that addresses nothing that I wrote. It seems like I hit a nerve, because I am guessing you are one of those people that has fallen for "root root root for the home team," and you don't want this blind loyalty to be questioned This is a typical reaction when people are challenged on core beliefs--not the first time i have encountered this response. You showed your cards there fella.
Dude, sounds to me like you are drinking the Kool Aid. You want to believe this rebuilding plan is the one that really is going to work, so be it.
There are objective reasons not to like this pick that have nothing to do with his college choice. Many pundits list him as a tweener, no true position (too small for LB, cover skills not good enough for cover corner). For a cover guy in college, he had one int. One. And then you have the HC coming out and saying he preferred Hooker.
This current iteration of the "browns" doesn't get the benefit of the doubt. This is the same team that took a 6th round pick, knowing about battery charges, saying almost simultaneously that they may just cut him (you want to make excuses because it's only a six round pick, when the team has so many holes, go ahead). There is a reason you don't see successful teams like the Pats, for example, doing business like this.
No, not this year (or next year, or the year after that)
SOURCE: every season since 1964.
I jammed you an up vote. Will NEVER forgive the NFL for letting one of its bellwether franchises relocate to line another greedy owner's pocket. Watching it happen three more times in the last 15 months was more than I can stomach. I come here for CFB stuff, and as much as I love Ramzy, one of the best sports writers I have found on the web, it irks me to read about a player from one team I hate being drafted by another team I hate almost as much.
So you are saying if the fake Browns have 3 first round picks, maybe they can score one good one?
Still sounds a bit optimistic to me.
You must be delighted that the Bungles added to their criminal element.