Don't get me wrong, its not because its a bad trade. If you can swap a rookie for KLove you do it. Its a good deal. The issue I have is that its not necessary. Unless the warriors change their stance and offer up Klay Thompson there is no reason for the cavs to blow their load early on this one. You wait it out and the closer you get to the trade deadline the more the price will drop, especially if they find themselves in a struggle for the 8 seed (which is likely). The wolves already know the market for Love is thin, and its unlikely that a new team jumps in with an offer thats better than what the cavs are putting up. Boston? No. Houston? No. Dallas? No. Phoenix? No. No one but Golden State is a threat. In the meantime, a lineup of PG - Irving, SG - Waiters, SF - Wiggins, PF - LeBron, C - AV could be terrifying for other teams. You roll with that until Minn caves and sells for Dion, Bennett and picks.There is no reason for the cavs not to have their cake and eat it too.
Yea, the thing you are forgetting is that Kyrie's new contract kicks in next year, jumping from 7 mil to 15-16 mil. Plus you have other players getting sallery bumps as well... so much for all that cap room. If you want another star the only year you can make a move is this year.
Holy shit I've been wrong my whole life! I had no idea it went 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 g 10!!!!
The only way I trade this pick is if the cavs are still busting a collective nut over Joel Embid. If he's your guy, I might think about 4, 12, and Afflalo. But thats the only trade I'd do (Unless the Sixers went 3, young, AND 10). Otherwise, you stop thinking you're smarter than everyone else in the league and just take the best player. Its so simple, and so perfect to just add Wiggins to the team and thank the basketball Gods. It actually makes SO much sense that there is no way the cavs do it. They probably do the orlando deal and then flip 4 and 12 for another average to solid 28-year-old veteran that wont make us any better, and we'll be the laughing stock of the NBA as we're the only team possibly dumb enough to leave this stacked draft in a worse place than we started it... and then I'll go give a shotgun a blow job...
Not to be a negative nancy, but it sounds a lot like "Wumbush, Gibson, and Nunez all have the good guys as their leaders." There is a long time to go in the 2015 class let alone the 2016 one. I agree its a good thing to be in the top two or three for each, but recruiting is a fickle bitch and A LOT can change. I just hope we don't zero in on one single guy like the last two classes and wind up losing out on the other top dogs. First one to commit out of that group is the guy I want.
I like both Wiggins and Parker, and I think they will both be studs in the league. It will take Wiggins a year or two longer, but I firmly believe he will be every bit as good, if not better. What separates the two for me is defense. Wiggins has the potential to be a more athletic version of Kawhi Leonard on the defensive side of the ball, which is crazy to even think about. Parker has the potential to protect the basket about as well as a screen door on a submarine... This is the biggest reason to draft Wiggins over Parker. The other reason would be fit for the team. Kyrie is a very ball dominate player, this is why he and Waiters cant play together. They are too similar. Wiggins does most of his damage as an off ball player, cutting to the hoop, playing off screens and crushing it on fast breaks, he would mesh perfectly with Kyrie. Parker on the other hand is like waiters. He needs the ball in his hands a lot and scores off of a lot of isolation style situations. I fear that Kyrie/Parker would run into a lot of the same problems as Kyrie/Waiters. I think it has to be Wiggins all the way.
- Draft Wiggins #1
- Trade Dion and maybe a future pick to move into the 9-12 range and draft Nik Stauskes or Gary Harris, two great shooters and good off ball players
- Sign a big time SF in free agency. LeBron isnt walking through that door, but Trevor Ariza or Gordan Hayward might. We can start Wiggins at the less demanding SG spot for his first few years, and he can slide to the SF spot when our shooter comes into the game.
- Sign a rim protecting center. Gortat would be a good addition and I wouldn't mind Hawes coming back, but what I really would like to see is a trade pursued for Roy Hibbert. Dude has worn out his welcome in Indy and need a change of scenery, but he's only a year removed from an allstar appearance. Something like Andy, Jack and an unprotected first could likely pry him away.
Starting Lineup: Kyrie, Wiggins, Hayward, Thompson, Hibbert
Bench: Delavadova, Stauskes, Miles, Gee, Bennett, Zeller with room for two more.
This makes zero sense. Wiggins can play the two as well as the three. He could slide to SG and fit in perfectly as an off ball player between Kryie and LBJ. Parker is a SF and unless you expect him to play as an undersized PF, that where he's going to stay. I think you have it backwards, drafting Parker would say we dont have a chance at LeBron (which I really think we dont) but I digress. I know LeBron can play anywhere from PG to C in the NBA because he's a freak, but hes a SF first, so if the grand plan is to bring him back, you dont go drafting another SF.
Somebody doesn't understand sarcasm font. Next time add the dots (...) for extra sracastical emphasis.
Bolt had a very good comment above, and I agree a lot with what he said. Wiggins fits extremely well with both Kyrie and Waiters. People get on him because he doesnt seem to have that "Alpha Male" quality, but the cavs already have that in Kyrie, and having two alpha male types never ends well. This is why Kyrie and Waiters cant ever seem to play with one another. Wiggins would slide in as a perfect compliment to Kyrie's game and, while I would love to trade Dion for a pure shooter i.e. N. Stauskes or a great defender like G. Harris, he could stay on the team and play well with Wiggins as well. Drafting Parker gives you another ball dominant player and I wonder if he meshes any better with Kyrie than Waiters did. Even if he can coexist with Kyrie, drafting him almost assures Waiters would have to be moved, as you cant have three of those types of players on the same team. There arent enough balls/offensive possessions to go around.
I've actually spent a lot of time thinking about this, and I think the decision is quite simple. Eventually, the best player in this draft will be Andrew wiggins. He went 17ppg/6rpg/2apg as a college freshmen, on a team with a shitty offensive system, where he didnt need to be the alpha dog. To put this into perspective, Micheal Jordan went 18ppg/5rpg/2apg for his college CAREER (albeit with a slightly high shooting %). Kawhi leonard went 14/10/2, and Wiggans is more athletic than either. Will he ever be a top 5 shooter in the league? Probably not. But he's a stud, and his two way potential is second to none.
Now, this does not mean that he is the best player for the cavs. Wiggens will be the best player in this draft, but it will take him 3/4 years tow get there. Wiggens is nice because he's a defensive phenom and he can play two positions while fitting in perfectly as Kyrie's robin (He doesnt have the mentality of a Batman). If the cavs think they can 1) trade for Love (long shot) 2) bring back Lebron (longer shot), 3) that kyrie is 100% going to resign, he is the pick.
If you can not say yes to any of those options, the pick needs to be Parker. While Wiggens will take time to develop, Parker will be a 20+ point scorer a night, yesterday. Adding an offensive playmaker like that may convince Kyrie to resign. The problem with Parker (as people have stated above) is that he is a ball dominant player who will not mesh great with Kyrie, or to an even greater extent, Waiters. So if you draft him, you need to have a trade in the works for Dion.
The optimal scenario is that the cavs draft Wiggins at 1, and then trade Waiters (who never meshed well with Kyrie anyway) and possibly a future first for another pick in the top ten. The Jazz are in a bad spot at 5 if exum is gone, and we could possibly reach for Embid there. Or we could try for the 9-10 range to land McDermott (can score from anywhere), Stauskes (Klay Thompson), or Harris (a better defender with good offensive potential). This gives us two quality shooters to Kyrie's slashing abilities. Realistic Starting lineup: Kyrie, Miles, Wiggens, Thompson, Hawes (hope he resigns) with Jack, Stauskes/Harris, Bennett, and Zeller coming off the bench
This trade is completely ridiculous for both teams. Noel is a broken pogo stick and you cant get anything equivalent to Wiggins/Parker with 3 and 10. Meanwhile, Philly is trying to build something with young guys. They aren't going to give up all of their young assets for one guy. Neither team would be happy with this trade. This isn't a video game...
I respect your opinion, but this is the type of thinking that keeps a team terrible FOREVER. There were three franchise players in this class, and before Embid's injury, 3 and 10 was a good idea, but you can't put the fate of the franchise on a center with bad knees AND a bad back (See Oden, Ming). It took big Z 6 years to become a contributor and he only had one of those problems. Embid had a stress fracture as a senior in HS, a back injury as a frosh in college (on a 30 game schedule) and now another stress fracture before he even plays another game, and you want him as your franchise savior!? A week ago i would have loved the idea of Embid and Stauskes (Another clay thompson), but now, there are only 2 franchise players in the draft, and the cavs better leave with one of them.
Can you provide a link? I have no way of enlarging it and its too small for me to read it
I just want to clear something up, I thought Harris was coming up for FNL. Am I totally wrong in that, or is this trip replacing that one, or is he gonna do both? Option 3 would be sweet...
Jake Saunders, DT, #285
Obviously its unrealistic to think that OSU will go 100% with the top 14 guys in Ohio, but can you imagine if we locked down this list and then sprinkled in Bosa, Craig, Haskins, and Austin Mack? That's 2 five stars, 14 four stars, and 2 three stars. This would be an insane class! According to scout, it would be
The #11 QB, the #6 and #15 RB, the #1, #10, and #12 WR, the #1 TE, the #2 OT, the #5 and #6 OG, the #2 and #4 DE, the #27 DT, the #6, #22, and #25 OLB, the #9 MLB, and the #14 CB.
This is crazy enough, and while I see several guys dropping a few spots, I would expect McCall, Eichenberg, Cooper, Tucky, and Sandwisch all to receive significant bumps as time goes by. Round it out with a little more national flavor and... Best Class EVER
I want Giddens big time, and as much as I'd love to have Brown, I'd rather grab Bragg. I'd hate to think Ohio had Bragg and Kennard (sp?) in the same class and they both managed to slip out of state.
For the most part I still like my original list and I'm mostly going to stick to it.
QB - Gibson
RB - Harris
RB - Scott
WR - EGW (Sooner or later, this is where he will be)
WR - Kirk
WR - Boykin
TE - Clark
OL - Richmond
OL - Daniels
other OL Burrell
Beckner Jr Cornell
DL - Deberry
LB - Kilby-Lane DL - Sweat
LB - Hillard
LB - Conner
LB - Baker
CB - Dean
CB - Whitehead
Plus one more WR/CB/S/Ath - Likely a big name guy we don't even know is on the radar yet. Urbz is probably getting his spatula ready as we speak.
I dont know, I think waiters, thompson/bennett, and two unprotected firsts are a pretty good return for the #3 pick. Either way, Embid is the real deal. You say he'll have trouble with bigger, stronger,7 footers like they grow on trees. Name a 7 footer who is as big, and as strong, and as skilled as Embid. Howard? Maybe 3 years ago, but not with his knee issues. Hibbert? He couldn't throw a rock in the ocean from the deck of a cruise ship. Noah? Not as big. You're right, being the best center in the league doesn't necessarily mean a lot right now. But it does if you're Hakeem Olajuwon and everyone else a stiff never-will-be.
OK, the one thing the cavs CAN NOT do is trade the #1 pick for Love. It would be so cleveland to trade #1, Waiters and Thompson for Love. LBJ doesn't opt out, Love leaves in a year, Kyrie leaves in two, and Griffin is left holding his dick in his hand...
What they should do:
1) Draft Embid at #1. (If his back checks out there is not a single player in the league with his skill set. He'll be the best C in the league in 3 years) I'd be fine with Wiggins or Parker, but good God did you see Embid's workout!
2) Offer Minn any 4/5 other assets they want for Love. A reasonable offer would be Waiters, Bennett/Thompson, Memphis's #1, and a future unprotected first from us. Minn is crazy if they think they get anything near that good from any other team. No bad team with a high pick this year will trade for him because he wont resign with them. The Lakers would but they have no young prospects. The only other team that makes sense is Boston.
3) Make the same offer to Mil and Philly, for #2 or #3 and a contract they want to dump. Then draft one of Wiggens/Parker.
4) If none of the above trades happen, work free agency desperately for your SF. Melo/Gay/Deng and others.
Best case scenario lineup (With option 2)- Kyrie, Miles, SF to be named, Love, Embid
next best (With option 3)- Kyrie, Miles, Wiggins, Bennet/Thompson, Embid
Next (with option 4) - Kyrie, Waiters, SF to be named, Thompson, Embid
Anyone who downvotes the above is too much of a homer and letting their love cloud their reason... I love Craft as well but I understand what he was: An exceptional college bball player on the defensive side of the ball. The Dellavedove comment is a valid point.
I really liked the write-up, thought it was fantastic. But I do have one critique. You make a point of using the Boyd touchdown as an example of Shazier being unable to get off a block when in reality he is not supposed to be the guy making that play and, for the most part, he does exactly what he is coached to do. IMO as a coach, the blame for the play falls squarely on the shoulders of Jamal Marcus and #55 (Williams???). How is a run up the middle a DE's fault? Well, as a DE it is of paramount importance that you get hands on the TE/T you are lined up over. Marcus never touches the tackle and this does two things: it allows the T to get a good combo on Washington (knocking him out of the hole), and it give the T a great angle at Williams. Shazier does what he is supposed to: fill the hole and blow up the guard with your inside shoulder, thus forcing the play to the MLB and backside linebacker. Shazier does this perfectly, stoning the G and forcing the play inside him. Williams, even though he's hung out to dry by Marcus, makes the cardinal sin of fighting beneath the T instead of going over the top like he should. By going under the block there is no one left to make the play unless Shazier superman's his way through the G. If he does what he is supposed to, the play is force right into the waiting arms of Perry who is ready to fill the backside lane.
Sorry for the long winded response. Other than that I thoroughly enjoyed the write-up.