Yeah I realized he was in foul trouble too - but I recall one time in particular where he missed his defensive assignment and was pulled immediately (the announcers noted it too). Regardless, I'm ok with the younger guys getting PT.
Forget the comments about the quality of WCU - yes, they were/are terrible. OSU played solid defense all night long and it's great to see them continue to set the tone in the paint, just like in the Providence game. THat will be big in B1G play.
I continue to be amazed with Tate. There were several times last night when he was the shortest guy in a rebounding scrum by several inches and came out clean with the ball. I don't think his height hinders him as much with a big body, willingness to scrap, and hops.
Loving was benched when he needed to be. Again, Thad only played him 17 minutes. Keep sending the message. Good to see Wesson getting quality PT early in games. We'll need him to spell the KBD/Tate/Loving rotation every once in awhile.
Lyle is good. Lyle is great. All hail Lyle.
He played 17 minutes in the NC Central game, that was his punishment.
Yesterday his line was: 2-6 shooting, 8 points, 10 rebounds, 3 assists, 2 blocks, 1 foul, 2 turnovers. 10 rips, 3 assists, 2 blocks are good. He can work on his shooting.
I think Thad has shown throughout his OSU tenure that he doesn't give preferential treatment to seniors. His order of priority for letting guys play is 1) defense, 2) everything else. Loving played some good D last night and had some good rim protection.
And outscored them in the paint something like 46-22.
I don't think I argued that he played a great game - he didn't - but 10 boards is 10 boards. Not every one just hit him in the face. He worked hard for a few of them and had some decent rim defense too.
I know we're quick to emote as OSU fans, but there are positive things to look at, even with Loving. I trust Thad - otherwise 1) he wouldn't be starting or 2) he would've kicked his ass to the curb like the rest of the 2015ers last season. Just give it time.
Ball movement was good, pretty good shot choices, great defense and good ball-hawking (7 blocks!?). Did this with Loving yet again MIA except for 10 boards, which is solid. Also Potter with his first bad game, Jackson not getting much PT, and KBD going down.
Next man up, for anyone who thought last year's team and this year's team were exactly the same - this should settle it. The win over UK last year was UGLY and we got really lucky - this team tonight is different.
Which—if any—of the 4 who departed would you play?
Exactly. Potter and Jackson have already contributed more in two games than any of the other 4 did all year.
I'm sorry Ole Buck but you're just being a curmudgeon now. Last year OSU went 11-7 in the Big Ten. 7-11 this year with a better, more experienced, more talented team? That means dropping 3 games against Northwestern, Rutgers, Nebraska, Penn State, or Minnesota.
If we're 11-7 or greater in the B1G this year we likely finish the regular season (after B1G tournament) with 23 wins or so. That's good for the NCAAT.
Lyle, KBD, and Loving were all recruited as "top-end guys." Kam is filling out his role nicely. Not every team automatically has to have an all-star, but needs leaders. They have that.
Lyle doesn't have an attitude problem. If you recall, he's the only one who actually decided to stick around after last year. He lost weight and put the work in. He's just off to a bad start, which he's allowed.
We managed 20 wins in the regular season last year after going 8-5 OOC with losses to UT-Arlington, Louisiana Tech, and Memphis. This team should walk out of OOC 10-3 at the worst (UVA, UCLA, and either Providence or UConn), however UConn has been terrible and UCLA looks beatable too. If this team puts together complete games like they're capable of (we saw it in spurts last night), there is a good chance they finish the regular season with 23 wins or so, which is easily in the tourney in a good B1G year.
But, as we all know, that's why we play the games. No sense in jumping to conclusions after the second game of the season.
First, Jamar Butler was a 4*. Lenzelle Smith was too, #95 in the class. Craft was a 4*, #94 in the exact same class. Ron Lewis was an overshadowed recruit who transferred after averaging 12.5 points/game for his freshman season at Bowling Green. These are not non highly touted recruits.
The talent level is just not there, and it definitely hurt that they lost their entire freshman class from last year, which obviously led to scrambling to fill the roster.
None of the guys we lost last year were in the top 6 in any statistical category on the team, except for Giddens with blocks. Potter and Jackson have already contributed more than any of those guys did last year. Those 2 guys, plus the 6 returning statistical leaders is a solid 8-man rotation.
(Losing team, winning team) Duke, Mercer; Duke, Lehigh; Missouri, Norfolk State; Michigan State, Middle Tennessee State; WVU, Stephen F Austin; Georgia State, Baylor; Iowa State, UAB.
Those are all in the tournament, in the last 4 years. I think Duke should fire Coach K, MSU should fire Izzo, and WVU should fire Huggins. All 3 (likely) HOF coaches - overpaid and how could they lose to teams with less resources? Sad!
I don't think you can criticize chemistry after only the second regular season game. There is plenty of enthusiasm - Kam and Tate are both a ton of fun to watch and Potter already seems to be coming into his own. Thompson has flashes where he's really grinding it out too. For every Aaron Craft there is a Laquinton Ross (in terms of effort and enthusiasm).
I agree re: Loving. Bench his ass until he figures it out. He's not winning us any games right now.
The talent is not overrated by fans. That has a team full of very solid recruits. People need to make up their mind in criticizing Thad. When he recruits poorly it's "Thad needs to go! He can't bring in top talent!" Then when he brings in top classes it's "Recruiting rankings don't matter that much...these guys are overrated." Let Thad do his thing and we'll see how it plays out. We've won with our best player (Lyle) in a slump, this is ok. KBD has been sick, this is ok.
If a 24-25 win season is a rough year, I'll take it. That's where I think we'll be and will be a 7-9 in the tournament.
With all of this negativity around here you'd think we were 0-2 instead of 2-0. Keep in mind we lost to UT-Arlington and Louisiana Tech last year - winning these games, regardless of however close, is good.
UConn lost to Northeastern and WAGNER. #7 Xavier was fought to the end by Lehigh only to eek out a 3 point win. Texas had a 5 point win over Incarnate Word. Tennessee got SMOKED by Chatanooga. Pitt needed double OT to beat Eastern Michigan. Sometimes good teams/blue bloods lose games they shouldn't. We didn't.
The world isn't ending. There were streaks of really great play (the 12-0 run midway through the 1st, for example), which is something to build off. Everyone except Loving looked like they want to be out there. Tate is a leader, Kam is a microwave, Jackson has been a pleasant surprise. Potter has exceeded expectations after only two games. Loving needs a benching until the match is lit under his ass. There is more to like about this team than the previous two years.
Take a deep breath and step back everyone, we're 2-0.
It was a Monday night game against a bad opponent at 9 pm, for a team coming off a rough year. The basketball team isn't losing money. The world isn't ending.
Returning the guys who make up like 95% of the major statistics from a year ago is favorable in an analysis like Ken Pom's. Last year OSU was one of, if not the youngest teams in the country. You likely disagree but a list like this is more accurate given what's known at this point (stats, returning experience, lost experience, etc) than a regular old coaches or AP poll based purely on speculation.
This is a terrible argument - especially given your examples. It isn't like Jim Boeheim was a hot commodity coaching hire - he was an assistant that was promoted to head coach. Syracuse was a nobody before him and didn't have the pick of the litter. Billy Donovan had a 35-20 record as head coach at Marshall before getting the Florida job.
Coach K went 14-11 and 9-17 at ARMY the two years prior to moving to Duke. My guess is that he wasn't a hot coaching commodity.
Jim Calhoun may be the lone example - except he was not a certain bet, having never made it out of the second round of the NCAA despite 5 appearances in 6 years with Northeastern.
That 1/2 talent also beat two more teams to make it to the Elite 8 - let's not act like that Dayton team was terrible. "Beat Matta's ass" = a last second shot to win by 1? I suppose then that Michigan State fans should be hoping for the Middle Tennessee coach to take Izzo's spot, or for Duke fans to hope that Lehigh and Mercer's coaches should take over for coach K.
Besides - outside of that Elite 8 run Archie has exited in the round of 32, and the first round this year with his best team. In the same period Thad has a Sweet 16, FInal Four, Elite 8, and round of 32 appearance.
The recruiting has fallen off.
For chrissake!! People make up your mind! If you're going to say that recruiting has fallen off, then at least do your research. Matta has pulled in 3 top 6 classes since 2011, with only 3 scholarships open and used between 2012 and 2013 (so rankings were down). The only possible complaint you can have is 2017. 2016 Thad scrambled to fill the remaining scholarships after a clearly overrated top-5 2015 class that clearly didn't want to be at OSU - and none of them went anywhere substantial.
NC State... that acc powerhouse.
The same one that's had 4 or 5 top 10-15 classes since 2010? Yes. The same one with two Sweet 16s in the past 5 seasons after not havign gone since 2006? Yes. Why can't some people realize that some recruits just don't want to go to OSU?
Also, if you're talking about Markell Johnson, Thad got a commitment from the Juco transfer, CJ Jackson, after being unsure whether Markell Johnson would re-classify to 2016 from 2017. Johnson didn't re-classify to 2016 until June, and Thad didn't have that long.
Either his rankings are terrible & completely off... OR we just signed a PG that should play at PSU, NEB, or NW.
Last year's class showed that rankings aren't all that they're cracked up to be. AJ Harris will be playing for...New Mexico State, he didn't exactly transfer to a world beater. Grandstaff is onto his 3rd? 4th? school in 12 months and will be fighing for PT at DePaul.
If I recall correctly, if we have 3-stars turn out like one of the stellar PSU guards of the past 6 years (Talor Battle, Tim Frazier, DJ Newbill), I would be quite happy.
You can't say this
The recruiting has got worse as the years have gone by.
And then follow it up with this
Now the star rankings aren't everything but the good Thad teams have had the 5 star legit college and NBA players... due to recruiting
Since 2010 Thad has had (in order) the #2, #6, #106, #36, #6, #5, #41 ranked classes. The 2018 class is currently ranked 2nd. The #106 class had one recruit (2012) and the #36 class had two recruits (2013). 1 and 2-member classes don't break the top 20. This year's class (#41) was only as such because the #5 class from 2015 didn't work out.
You say "Recruiting needs to be better" when recruiting has been STELLAR, yet then pan him when a class doesn't work out. Should Thad have told the four guys to stay this year, even if they were toxic and overrated, JUST FOR THE SAKE OF THE INTEGRITY OF RANKINGS?
This last class we landed 3 3-star recruits when Thad had only took in 4 for his career up to that point at tOSU.
OSU lost 1 scholarship player during the year (whose spot the JuCo transfer took I believe), and 3 scholarship players over the span of a few days around March 30, 2016. National signing period opened mid-April. Luckily Thad had Funderburk (4-star) and Potter (notable 3-star project who was supposed to develop behind Thompson and Giddens) but still had to fill the extra spots. All that was left were 3-stars. Thad HAD to take in 3-stars. You should be applauding him, not criticizing him.
It isn't like the guys that left were world beaters - Giddens went to ALabama and won't start, Grandstaff has now transferred at least 3 times and is now at DePaul...I think, AJ Harris is at New Mexico STATE, and Mickey Mitchell is headed to UC Santa Barbara. Maybe the recruiting services were just off, and it was a perfect storm.
Totally. Thad had no idea until probably January 2016 that his class of 2015 wouldn't work out. He likely had done little recruiting for 2016 (Funderburk excluded), then had to make sure to fill 4 open scholarships within the span of about 3 weeks. We should be giving him credit for pulling in a good class.
So that is something to look forward to?
For apparently every other team in the country except OSU, because you people have expectations higher than fans at UK, Duke, UNC, etc. How else do you judge a team going forward than by what they've done in the past?
Why would you not look forward to returning 62 ppg of the 75 ppg that OSU scored last year? That's insane! It's better than having nothing and the cupboard being bare. Everyone continues to forget that the guys that left were marginal supporters and didn't even want to be at OSU - so should we be mad that they're not around?
There have been so many threads about Thad's recruiting but the comments always devolve into baseless opinions as opposed to looking back at what actually has happened.
Why should Thad try and keep in-state talent when he can get better talent out of state? He really hasn't whiffed on more than maybe 1-2 in-state recruits that actually WANTED to come to OSU. If you want to name me the last 5-6 Ohio recruits Thad missed on (THAT ALSO HAD INTEREST IN OSU), I will sit here and wait. We've done the Bragg and Kennard dance other places (neither wanted to come to OSU - neither had ties nor fandom of OSU), and people have yet to bring up anyone of relevance.
I will copy/paste a comment from another thread earlier this year when everyone was saying that Thad needed to lock down good Ohio players (and also criticized him for not recruiting Trey Burke when Shannon Scott was a significantly better recruit from out of state):
Just like Jordan Sibert (#38 overall his class, #3 Ohio), JD Weatherspoon (#98 overall, #5 Ohio same class), or any other number of Ohio players who did not work out? If you are saying Matta should've recruited Burke instead of Scott without the benefit of hindsight you are crazy. Top 90 player vs. top 35 player and any coach takes the top 35 player.
Oden and Conley were from outside of Ohio. Turner was from Chicago. D'lo was from Kentucky. You see where I'm going. If you really, truly, think that if Matta had gotten all in-state players instead of going out of state that this would all be any different...I have some snake oil to sell you.
Maybe there are 1-2 players that "got away" from Matta in-state, but for the large part he has found equal success out of the state. Just because a kid is from Ohio doesn't automatically make them any better and doesn't automatically grant OSU any wins.