I'm really not sure what you used to post on twitter and what that has to do with modifying traditions within a complex organization. At least you did not use moral equivalence with the Jerry Sandusky case (talk about people that need to walk around the block...).
Didn't say that. Just saying the pattern seems to go back for a long time.
Similarly let's look for a bit more context for some of the "smoking guns" used against Waters in the report.
He was aware some were sexualized, but they would reprimand people if they heard any of the overtly sexual nicknames. The report claims he called someone by a sexual nickname but if you actually read about that incident it was calling a girl by the name "Tiggles" which I had absolutely no idea was a sexual nickname and I would bet a bajillion dollars that they fooled the director in this case. I would guess they use the secretly "only know what it means if you are under age 25" sexual nicknames around the directors and keep some of the obvious ones like Tits McGee hidden. Like Andy said below, it is not as simple as "he should just ban all nicknames then" if he did not want a complete revolt.
Only seems sexualized in the context of the rest of the report. It is equivalent to the Mirror Lake jump. The only murky area is that it is a surprise to some rookies, many of which are warned per the report. Recall what happened when they put a fence around Mirror Lake. Something similar would happen here.
Clearly some of these are awful and disgusting. If he was aware of some of these I think there would be people kicked out of the band. Clearly changes need to be made here to ensure band members are respected. There is an inference made that he condoned this behavior due to allowing things like midnight ramp. I think that is a stretch.
You need to go back further to a man named Wayne Woodrow Hayes.
Thanks for posting this Andy I was too busy plugging my internet back in after my walk around the block.
Pretty sure Jon Waters didn't know what "Tiggles" means. I had to look it up on Urban dictionary and I'm 31. Changing on the bus most likely did not involve stripping down naked and every high school band does it. Midnight ramp only seems sexualized in the context of the aggregation of all the other dirty/practical jokes and nicknames which also happens in high school band. Remember what happened when they tried to put a fence up around Mirror Lake?
This is actually more akin to the Jonathan Martin scandal. While this is collegiate vs. professional, NFL locker rooms are treated like fraternities. AFAIK there is no case of physical harm but at least one case of emotional harm and anecdotes of several cases where someone realistically could be harmed emotionally.
This is like double Godwin's law with Sandusky and Kim Jong Un references. Not sure why you can't have a rational discussion but at least you are consistent.
This is pretty much where I stand, even if I stated it more strongly than I should have. Pretty much had to happen as the university has to respond strongly to these sorts of things but it is still a shame.
I could not have said it better. This is a simple "solution" to a complicated problem happening in all corners of colleges across the country. These cultures exist within sports teams, military units, fraternities, and often more quietly and less documented within corporate workplaces (dirty jokes still exist...). And it is part of a broader culture of bullying throughout our educational system from Kindergarten on. I am not condoning many of the individual acts or giving someone a nickname if they are not "in on the joke". But I think this is a classic example of cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Wow, I'm pretty sure Jerry Sandusky has replaced Nazi Germany in the Godwin's law of internet discussions of sports scandals.
Right, this is the predetermined outcome when you start such an investigation into any such institution. You will find things like this and you will be put in a position where you have to fire someone. It is extremely unfortunate in my opinion.
I suppose just saying the words "title IX" was a mistake. But I stick by my opinion.
Basically he is getting fired for not addressing every borderline uncomfortable tradition within the band and apparently for swearing during practice (mic up coach Coombs and see what you hear...). If you want to change the culture, firing this guy will not accomplish that goal.
Please describe what you mean by "now this". And also consider sports team's scandals such as Steubenville in the context of your stereotyping bands as if these cases have anything in common other than involving young people misbehaving.
The culture is basically the culture of college life put into a fishbowl. There are aspects of college life that when aggregated into a report can look bad. Firing Jon Waters does nothing to change the college culture at places like Ohio State.
College students drink and say offensive things to each other. Personally I do not think we need to fire Jon Waters because of those facts.
This also makes me sad as a Doctor Who fan.
Please read the article before commenting. He did not sexually harass people. This is a hazing scandal with "sexual nicknames" and a tradition of marching in underwear.
Now THAT is Title IX overreach. If you investigated practically any group like this you could find this much "evidence" and fire leaders of great organizations all over the country.
I personally want to see points for the good guys and less points for the bad guys. The first part is going just fine with the Braxton/Herman partnership. If you trade those spectacular runs you likely are trading less points for the illusion of a "balanced" offense.
What if Braxton gets hurt? Actually don't ask that question and forget that I brought it up...also knock on wood please.
Russel and Winston were never dual threat guys. But still I completely agree that Braxton was good enough last year let alone what he can do this year to get the job done. Our pass defense was disappointing and that is being overhauled in a promising way in my opinion.
Dual threat QB's have in general dominated college football the last decade so it is an odd comment to restrict yourself to national title winners when that will be biased basically by Nick Saban coached teams which win on talent, discipline and defense. Ideally you'd have those 3 things and an explosive offense which is what Urban is trying to do. You need a dynamic player at QB to be an elite offense, whether that is with quick decision-making, athletic ability, big arm, or all of the above.
I'm really happy with the class as it stands right now. Ahmad OR Bragg would be gravy. Giddens was the big domino for me. We don't really need a more traditional PF in Matta's system.
Duke was better than most of the teams we played last year... :/
Can I downvote this poll?