I have always figured the market value of a college football player was 6 figures easy. Especially at the big time programs. Look how much time coaches spend on recruiting. Combine that with how much "bag men" spend on recruits, it is very easy to see a 5 star recruit being worth mid 6 figures , and a 4 star recruit commanding 6 figures also. You would have to figure that market value is higher at places like Columbus, Tuscaloosa or Austin.
I have changed my stance a bit. The more I think about it, the better solution to me wouldn't be the schools paying the football players, with Title X issues and the fact all athletes work hard. I think athletes should be able to make side money using their likeness. That way OSU could still afford to field 36 sports. I also think that would eliminate a lot of the complainers that say the players already get enough, or the ones jealous because they are paying back student loans. I think people would have less of a problem if Nationwide Insurance paid Braxton Miller $100,000 to do commercials than Ohio State paying Miller, and the golfer or swimmer couldn't complain because they could get the same deal in theory. My biggest issue has always been the athlete getting a fair piece of the pie, and I have felt for awhile that piece is a 6 figure slice for a football player at Ohio State.
She was in town a few years ago, trying to get more info on OSU. Truth be told, they were pretty close to finding more violations, but no one would speak on record. If you sent investigative reporters to any college town with a major program, you could find violations if you do enough digging. I wonder what she is up to now.
Is this sarcasm?
Grant is one of the fastest players on the team.
Some people with poor circulation, or previous exposure to frostbite, are susceptible to issues in cold weather. None of us , or most of us are not close enough to the situation to know if he needs to be wearing gloves or not.
I would think this happens in Columbus, and in Ohio. Columbus is as large a college town as there is. I would imagine stuff like this happens in Michigan and Texas also, along with the SEC. The story even says these bagmen barely know the coaches, it made that clear. It's not like Saban, Miles, Meyer, Hoke, Strong or whomever meet with these guys. The stakes are probably higher in the SEC, no doubt, but other schools win recruiting battles also. I am sure that not every kid has there hand out.
Also, remember the guy from Cleveland who paid the players for the charity events, the guy who paid Clarett's cell phone bill from Youngstown, the guy who gave Troy Smith $500 from Springfield. TP had the mentor from PA, TP's whole recruiting saga had always made me wonder......yeah it happens to OSU players also.
Again, it isn't about would John Cooper, Jim Tressel or Urban Meyer would be behind it, I ask myself does OSU have a large and passionate enough fan base that fans would be tempted to do this.
As much ridicule as guys like Saban and Miles get, I don't think these coaches at power programs don't have to get their hands that dirty, they sit back in their offices and it takes care of itself.
To me, I would look at schools that seem to secure kids official visits. Obviously certain programs kids are going to want to visit more than others....you also figure kids get approached on unofficial visits also, even in their hometowns.
I agree on hard working kids. They do have offers to Hilliard and Baker, two blue collar Ohio kids, so Urban is definitely offering in state.
Personally I consider PSU a rival to OSU, second only to Michigan. It may be because PSU was tough when I was a student, freshman year at OSU was the 14-63 debacle.
I disagree. A team can have more than one rival. I can think of multiple examples.
Excellent post Borrowed time. Kids having to sit out a year if they transfer is more for the fans and coaches than the welfare or rights of the athlete.
You are whining in a sense also. You don't HAVE to go to college. No one is forcing YOU to take a loan to pay for school. You can also do what Colter did, work hard and earn an athletic scholarship and get the benefits he worked hard to earn.
Argument works both ways.
You sound jealous to be honest. What does you having to pay for school have to do with football players? How many times did you play in front of 100,000 plus? How many ligaments did you sprain or tear, any concussions or joint issues? How many hospital visits did you make visiting sick kids. How much work did you put in in the summer, how many times did you meet with the media? What was your height, weight, vertical and 40 time. I could go on.
Point being, comparing yourself to a student athlete is apple to oranges. I attended OSU and didn't get a free ride. It being a choice isn't that relevant to me in the sense that if the law/gov't feel like the choice doesn't provide compensation that is deemed legal or fair, it needs to be improved. I can't pay someone $1 an hour for mowing lawns, and defend it by saying the person I hired made a choice. There are standards that have to be met in this country.
Germaine was drafted by MLB out of high school. He was a tremendous athlete.
I lean towards DJ on this one. I am hell bent on the LAW. America has antitrust laws for a reason. Pro sports violated them for a while, but the baseball reserve clause was deemed a violation of the law. Yes players made a lot of money, but they were entitled to free agency by the law of the land. I think the establishment of free agency in sports is similar to what college sports is going through now.
I don't understand why so many assume that a scholarship is enough, or that only the Braxton Millers are getting screwed. I personally think most major college football players are getting screwed.
The question isn't if the deal is good, as you state. Yeah it's good. The question in my mind is if the deal is as good as it can be under the laws of the United States.
That's why I use the free agency analogy. Baseball players got a good deal making 6 figures in the 1970's. That does not mean the reserve clause was legal. Now they make 6-8 figures.
I honestly believe a lot of it is jealousy. People are jealous that players get free school, books, room and board, etc, and it makes them angry/jealous that these players may get more. I try not be jealous. This is America, let these kids get as much as they can. I paid back student loans, but it isn't that hard for me to admit I was not Braxton Miller or Dontre Wilson, or when I went to school I was not Katzenmoyer or George. They are more important to OSU than most of us, so they should get an awesome deal. If I was 6'3 220 and ran a 4.5 40, maybe I would have got a better lot in life, but I didn't... life isn't fair.
The other argument that bothers me is the "college sports will never be the same" one. It is what it is. Pro sports survived free agency, college sports will be fine. Besides, there is no law saying schools have to play BCS football. Maybe schools like Akron and Kent drop to D3...maybe this will force programs to be more sound financially.
In short, to me it is very simple. NCAA should be in compliance with the laws of America, and if a federal judge says what the status quo is is in violation, then fix it.
Greyshirting is a kid delaying enrollment or paying his own way his first semester. That way you can count him as an intial counter for the following year. It is usually agree upon before hand. Todd Boeckman was an example if that helps.
I keep it simple. I agree with your premise that many people throw out the term too loosely. It is hard to really know who is oversigning as a casual fan. For example, I hear a lot of Tennessee and their 34 verbals, but no one really knows if they have done anything wrong.
Numbers don't mean a whole lot to me. Oversigning to me is having to force a kid out, or having to tell a verbal commit that you do not have room for him. Grayshirting if there is an agreement doesn't bother me.
Basically, if you aren't forcing kids to leave, or telling a verbal late in the process to look somewhere else, and are honest with the recruit...it is OK IMO.
Well, Dantonio is from the Saban coaching tree ...All coaches do this stuff. NCAA is a joke. The rule seems kind of foolish anyways. I do know Saban has been calling to more spring recruiting I believe.
I do see your point, but that would be complicated. That would make McMillan a 6 star I suppose lol. Also, a guy like Eli Apple came in early, and still redshirted, so it doesnt guarantee anything. I know Tennessee has 13 or 14 EE. I been following them, trying to figure out how they are fitting in 30+ verbals. I think every major conference has EE's.
Harbaugh is loud mouth arrogant jerk also. Didnt he guarantee a victory over OSU while at UM? I am rooting for the Seahawks because I like defense, dont like the way the NFL has gone with the passing numbers. I like Manning and Sherman, both are excellent players.
I honestly think it has a lot to do with luck when you get to a certain point, at least more so than a bottom third of a roster. Also having experience at certain positions at the right time and being injury free helps win championships. The bottom third will be strong if you just recruit well for several years in a row, like FSU and Bama. OSU has had depth issues because the 2009 and 2010 classes did not pan out IMO. It may take another year or two to establish that level of depth.
I think the key is building depth, and with the redshirting that occurred with this class, I think OSU will see improvement in the near future.
The link you posted about over signing is from 2011, I think the SEC and NCAA rules have changed since then. FSU has 26 verbals, 17 seniors and 4 guys leaving early. I think they expected more underclassmen to go pro early. Tennessee can sign 30 because they counted 20 last spring. It is hard to tell who is oversigning until closer to signing day to be honest. Tennessee's had like 13 early enrollees, also kids are still flipping commitments. Oversigning is not the issue it was 5 years ago.
You might go to see OSU and 100,000 of your closest friends and sing Carmen Ohio, but stop getting the Hyde's and Miller and start suiting up walk ons and see how long OSU keeps getting 100,000+ and how long Meyer has a job. OSU would be nowhere near the program it is without the players, from Chic Harley down to Raekwon McMillan.
Sounds like jealousy. Most of us aren't athletic enough or have the ability for the career anyways. Still a raw deal. Enough said.
I cheer for the Cleveland Indians, Browns and Cavs for the name on the front of the jersey also.
It is highly profitable to pay athletes. That's why pro sports were invented. Most top 20 football teams could pay their football players and make a profit, so that isn't the issue.
The reason baseball and football are set up different is because college football was more popular than pro football before the late 50's. Baseball was more popular than football also back then. A college scholly and room and board were enough in 1950.
Now it is 2014. College football and pro football is huge now. The money has exploded but the pay or lack their of relative to revenue has not.
If would not have a problem at all if the NFL had a minor league and players had more options. I dont complain about baseball players getting paid in college because college baseball teams do not make 40 million dollar profits, and high school prospects have the choice of signing a pro contract or going to college and work on their craft. Football players don't have that option because of the way mutually beneficial way the NCAA and NFL work in tandem. There is no legit reason why a football player needs to go to college anyways, not any more reason than a catcher or goalie need post high school education.
The NFL has used the NCAA has a free, cheap minor league for 75 years....well at least 50, and definitely as the NFL had exploded in popularity.
I am not that sensitive, but I would respect you more if you could disagree with another man's opinion without calling it "garbage", but whatever. The free market does not dictate room and board is enough. If it was, why have had their been cheating in recruiting for over 7 decades? Why boosters and other people offer cash payments and other benefits? You don't see NFL teams offering free agents $500 a month under the table and rent payments?
Also, football players are not like other students. The only Texas A&M student I can name is Johnny Manziel. The only Clemson students I can name were Tahj Boyd and Sammy Watkins. I went to OSU in the late 90's, and like to think I am pretty awesome, but I would not compare myself to Eddie George, Orlando Pace or Mike Vrabel as just another student from that era.
You mention bringing in capital...Manziel brought a lot of capital to Texas A&M. And you claim the "market" dictates players dont get paid,,just like in 1950? LOL. I would not call anyone's argument garbage with that logic you tried to use. Get real,,or take a Econ class or something.