Greyshirting is a kid delaying enrollment or paying his own way his first semester. That way you can count him as an intial counter for the following year. It is usually agree upon before hand. Todd Boeckman was an example if that helps.
I keep it simple. I agree with your premise that many people throw out the term too loosely. It is hard to really know who is oversigning as a casual fan. For example, I hear a lot of Tennessee and their 34 verbals, but no one really knows if they have done anything wrong.
Numbers don't mean a whole lot to me. Oversigning to me is having to force a kid out, or having to tell a verbal commit that you do not have room for him. Grayshirting if there is an agreement doesn't bother me.
Basically, if you aren't forcing kids to leave, or telling a verbal late in the process to look somewhere else, and are honest with the recruit...it is OK IMO.
Well, Dantonio is from the Saban coaching tree ...All coaches do this stuff. NCAA is a joke. The rule seems kind of foolish anyways. I do know Saban has been calling to more spring recruiting I believe.
I do see your point, but that would be complicated. That would make McMillan a 6 star I suppose lol. Also, a guy like Eli Apple came in early, and still redshirted, so it doesnt guarantee anything. I know Tennessee has 13 or 14 EE. I been following them, trying to figure out how they are fitting in 30+ verbals. I think every major conference has EE's.
Harbaugh is loud mouth arrogant jerk also. Didnt he guarantee a victory over OSU while at UM? I am rooting for the Seahawks because I like defense, dont like the way the NFL has gone with the passing numbers. I like Manning and Sherman, both are excellent players.
I honestly think it has a lot to do with luck when you get to a certain point, at least more so than a bottom third of a roster. Also having experience at certain positions at the right time and being injury free helps win championships. The bottom third will be strong if you just recruit well for several years in a row, like FSU and Bama. OSU has had depth issues because the 2009 and 2010 classes did not pan out IMO. It may take another year or two to establish that level of depth.
I think the key is building depth, and with the redshirting that occurred with this class, I think OSU will see improvement in the near future.
The link you posted about over signing is from 2011, I think the SEC and NCAA rules have changed since then. FSU has 26 verbals, 17 seniors and 4 guys leaving early. I think they expected more underclassmen to go pro early. Tennessee can sign 30 because they counted 20 last spring. It is hard to tell who is oversigning until closer to signing day to be honest. Tennessee's had like 13 early enrollees, also kids are still flipping commitments. Oversigning is not the issue it was 5 years ago.
You might go to see OSU and 100,000 of your closest friends and sing Carmen Ohio, but stop getting the Hyde's and Miller and start suiting up walk ons and see how long OSU keeps getting 100,000+ and how long Meyer has a job. OSU would be nowhere near the program it is without the players, from Chic Harley down to Raekwon McMillan.
Sounds like jealousy. Most of us aren't athletic enough or have the ability for the career anyways. Still a raw deal. Enough said.
I cheer for the Cleveland Indians, Browns and Cavs for the name on the front of the jersey also.
It is highly profitable to pay athletes. That's why pro sports were invented. Most top 20 football teams could pay their football players and make a profit, so that isn't the issue.
The reason baseball and football are set up different is because college football was more popular than pro football before the late 50's. Baseball was more popular than football also back then. A college scholly and room and board were enough in 1950.
Now it is 2014. College football and pro football is huge now. The money has exploded but the pay or lack their of relative to revenue has not.
If would not have a problem at all if the NFL had a minor league and players had more options. I dont complain about baseball players getting paid in college because college baseball teams do not make 40 million dollar profits, and high school prospects have the choice of signing a pro contract or going to college and work on their craft. Football players don't have that option because of the way mutually beneficial way the NCAA and NFL work in tandem. There is no legit reason why a football player needs to go to college anyways, not any more reason than a catcher or goalie need post high school education.
The NFL has used the NCAA has a free, cheap minor league for 75 years....well at least 50, and definitely as the NFL had exploded in popularity.
I am not that sensitive, but I would respect you more if you could disagree with another man's opinion without calling it "garbage", but whatever. The free market does not dictate room and board is enough. If it was, why have had their been cheating in recruiting for over 7 decades? Why boosters and other people offer cash payments and other benefits? You don't see NFL teams offering free agents $500 a month under the table and rent payments?
Also, football players are not like other students. The only Texas A&M student I can name is Johnny Manziel. The only Clemson students I can name were Tahj Boyd and Sammy Watkins. I went to OSU in the late 90's, and like to think I am pretty awesome, but I would not compare myself to Eddie George, Orlando Pace or Mike Vrabel as just another student from that era.
You mention bringing in capital...Manziel brought a lot of capital to Texas A&M. And you claim the "market" dictates players dont get paid,,just like in 1950? LOL. I would not call anyone's argument garbage with that logic you tried to use. Get real,,or take a Econ class or something.
I agree with your point that it is symbiotic. I would say the the reason being an OSU player could be worth so much are players like Braxton Miller over time. Kind of a chicken egg thing... If OSU didn't get talents like Miller and players like George, Ginn Spielman etc over the years, and started recruiting MAC caliber players, being an OSU Buckeye would not be worth that much in 5-10 years after some 5-7 seasons. You used the perfect word to describe the relationship.
Just like OSU football, players want to practice against the best and have the chance to win championships. Kentucky is an elite basketball power. To me it would be like comparing OSU to MSU in football. A player could get coached up at MSU and play for a top 10-15 team, and make the NFL, but if Urban Meyer and OSU offer the same kid, the majority would have OSU above MSU IMO.
Exactly. Minor league baseball manager do not make 7 figures, not as many fans surf minor league message boards, and the BCS championship game brings in more money than the AAA World Series. An OSU football player should have a better deal than a Lake County Captain.
Also, a elite baseball prospect, a five star if you will would get offered 7 figures at 18 years old, and a "4 star" 6 figures. An elite baseball high school prospect has better options FWIW.
I disagree with you saying that the 3rd string tight end is not worth all the cost. As much money surrounds college football, as much money is spent on recruiting, and some of the aamounts of under the table money and illegal benefits some of the players already receive, I doubt any kid who would commit to OSU, Bama, LSU, Texas etc would have to pay a dime if the system changed.
Also, the minimum salary for MLB, NFL, and NBA are near mid 6 figures, just throwing out numbers, as popular as Ohio State, Bama, and Texas football are....these players are worth maybe 50-100 grand a year. Let them pay for tuition, books , housing etc out of that. If every OSU player got $100,000 a year, that would be 8.5 million. OSU football would still make profit.
Not saying that would be a great plan, or what I would suggest, just making points.
No they ARE NOT. You can't buy groceries or make a car payment with your free room and board. Can't fly home or order a pizza with your free tuition. Those are benefits or perks, not pay. Even if in some strange world it was pay, the question some people have is if they are compensated enough.
Murray was kicked off the team before fall, and Bogard is an OLB now coming off 2 ACL tears.
I made a post on the football board a few days ago about the 2009 and 2010 classes, it didnt come out well due to Android issues, but the fact remains... OSU did not do well in retrospect in 2009 and 2010, and it explains some of the issues OSU has had over the past few years.
Everyone who says "we have a roster full of 4 and 5 stars" or "we have more talent on defense than Michigan State" or all the other nonsense you read all the time needs to check out the list of 09 and 10 signers.
Looking at the 2009 class again, how many first round picks, top 3 round picks, or just NFL players have come or will come out of that list?
Exactly. I think people are thinking way too hard about this hire. It is an entry level position. Learning the ropes of coaching. Grunt work. Urban Meyer's first job in college was also an OSU GA, but it wasn't like he was calling plays or coaching qb's in 1987.
There is also a middle ground, guarded optimism if you will. You can be excited with the commitments and still realize there will be attrition, injury, busts etc. Most people realize recruiting rankings do not guarantee anything.
This class and the 2009 class are a big part of the reason OSU has lacked depth the last few years.
For every 5 star pain in the ass, I can name you 2-3 3 star pain in the ass players. Anyways, Congrats to Collier.
Has that been hinted at by anyone? Just asking? I assumed it was a pay raise, and a chance to coach at the highest level. Maybe he decided he likes the pro game more.
What does the SEC have to do with anything? It amazes me how people have to bring them up in every discussion. I am more concerned about Ohio State and how they do things than another school or another conference.
Ohio State recruits the same athletes SEC schools do...Bell, McMillan, Dixon, etc and if Jamies Winston pledged to Ohio State instead of FSU, Tress would have accepted his commitment and this board might have crashed due to the excitement.
It would be great if every college accepted only players that would be accepted if they didnt play a sport, but that would/will never happen, and not sure if the fans truly want that anyways.
2002 Miami was not as good as 2001 Miami. I see some people saying the 2002 version was jusr a better version of 2001, that is not how college football works. I woul rank 2002 OSU higher, maybe 10th. 2001 Miami, 2005 Texas, 2004 USC, 2008 Florida and 2011 Bama stand out to me