Ughh everyone is gone...
Some of your points are fair, though I think you underestimate just how pervasive the problem is and how strongly the members argue against changing any traditions. It also should be emphasized that while Waters would have known that this type of thing occurred in general, most was of it was done out of the directors' presence during social settings or on buses. This type of behavior is so engrained in the band's culture that it is almost normalized to the point that most people didn't see anything wrong with it. Offensiveness was praised, though I don't think anyone meant any harm. And because it was so normalized, I could understand a director just thinking this was college students being college students and wouldn't take any action unless specific complaints were presented.
It's a normal human tendency to think that when something is accepted for so long, that it must be okay. We don't often step back and really think about whether habitual behavior is right or wrong. This behavior had been "acceptable" (meaning no one tried to change it) for 20+ years under Dr. Woods, so you can see why Waters might not find it as problematic as someone observing it from the outside for the first time. It needs to be changed for sure. I just think Waters is the best person to do this now that the seriousness of the problem is being addressed. He understands the band and could help it through a tough transition.
It just seems like OSU wanted someone to take the fall to prove how serious it is about fixing the problem. And that's unfortunate. He deserves to be reprimanded, I just think this was too far.
I am a TBDBITL alumn and can testify that this sort of thing was absolutely part of the culture. I was shocked and appalled by the behavior and took no part in it. No one was ever forced to participate in anything with sexual connotations, but there was heavy peer pressure and you couldn't avoid witnessing the crude jokes. Reading the report was strange for me because at the time, the sort of behavior seemed extreme but "normal" college behavior. I'm sure most frats are the same way. But, it again looks appalling after 8 years away and realizing what the real world accepts as appropriate. I absolutely think the culture should change.
All that being said, I don't think Waters should have been fired for this. He was taking steps in the right direction, but you couldn't change that culture overnight. I pity whoever has to replace Waters because I'm sure the band is furious and they will have an uphill battle changing the culture. Yes, Waters is responsible, but he is also just the scapegoat. This issue wasn't addressed under Dr. Woods because no one wanted to tarnish his legacy--but I was there under Woods and it was worse back then. Now, Waters will forever be disgraced from the band and his career is ruined--all because he was at the helm when all this finally came to light. I think that's a shame. He should have been given the opportunity to "right the ship."
I'd still prefer to play in the best conference (though we're far from that). If we can't beat a Wimbush-lead PSU, how could we compete with the top teams in the country?
<edit> Sorry, you all beat me to it
When you put it all together there’s a clear reason why the Ohio State football team earned nicknamed the Deep South Buckeyes (a nickname that some Buckeye fans have unashamedly embraced.)
Who are these Buckeye fans who have "unashamedly embraced" this nickname no one has ever heard of?
I"ve never heard of "Deep South Buckeyes" either.
I think this author is right on both counts. I think many fans are focussing more on SEC/Bama for several reasons: (1) OSU's unprecedented success ove TTUN since 2001 and TTUN's fall into mediocrity has caused OSU fans to take a victory as a given, (2) the SEC's recent dominance over the B1G, college football in general, and OSU (2006-2007), and (3) the national media narrative that OSU is not elite like the SEC.
Even more than the author notes, we're focussed more on MSU this year than TTUN. I think our focus is more on MSU and the SEC this year because our aspirations are for a national championship and these are the toughest teams standing in our way.
That is NOT to say that we'd rather lose to TTUN than MSU or the SEC. This question would be much more divided: whether we prefer national respect or beating our rival. As much as we take beating TTUN as a given, losing to them would be devastating. Just remember your thoughts when they went for 2 last year. Mine were: OH NO, THEY COULD ACTUALLY BEAT US RIGHT HERE!
I agree that if more of our most athletically gifted kids grew up playing soccer we'd be much better. U.S. soccer also lacks the kind of coaching and training that high school and college football and basketball players get to perfect their game. Yes, different attributes are important in soccer from football and basketball (e.g. strength and leap are less important), but many of our gifted athletes have great speed and agility that are helpful in soccer. Imagine the moves someone like Braxton could have if he were comfortable with a soccer ball. And imagine if soccer players developed the same precision and vision of some NFL quarterbacks or the covering ability of shut-down corners. I imagine we would improve a lot.
The great thing is, I believe that we will improve with greater numbers of kids embracing soccer.
Ok 11W, I'll look for something with "Eleven warriors brave and bold" in dry goods if #2 doesn't win. (And I didn't check, so don't blast me if there's already something there!)
That is a fantastic headline!
Rutgers = ..."Hodor." Priceless.
I always heard OSU paid your tuition if you got hit by a CABS bus...I guess you only get about a year.
I was thinking the exact same thing. That deserves a Skull Session shout out. Go Jackets!
Exactly, that was the debate. Like I said, it probably should be considered taxable because playing football is a service and a required condition for the scholarship (at least attempting to play when not injured). However, the IRS has not gotten entangled with this issue to my knowledge.
I was thinking the same thing. We are naturally optimistic during new seasons, and our season will be a bust if the secondary problems persist. So, we all want to believe they are being fixed.
Still, I think there is some validity to the new system being an improvement. Under Meyer, I think we need an aggresive defense that will stop drives quickly, even if we occassionally give up big plays, because we will probably outscore the opponent in the process. Last year, Iowa hurt us with long sustained drives that kept our offense on the bench. This is what we want to avoid.
This is different from our needs under Tressel. We were fine with a bend-but-don't-break defense because it was successful in preventing the other team from scoring and we didn't need as many drives on offense.
In contrast, our bend and break defense was a real liability last year. Hopefully Ash is the answer! I think Fickell will do a decent job this year, and the LBs struggles were more lack of skill/depth and being put in situations they struggled with.
We had this debate in our income tax class at Ohio State (Moritz). I believe our prof said it should be considered income, but the IRS has not challenged it.
We also had an interesting debate about whether "donations" paid to get the opportunity to purchase football tickets are deductable as charitable donations or rather just part of the cost of purchasing tickets. Again, I think it should not be a charitable donation but the IRS hasn't challenged anyone who claimed it as such.
Yep, the app is called NCAA March Madness Live. I paid a few bucks for it 2 years ago, but I'm not sure if you still do. The updates are free so you can use it every year.
Thanks Stu! Unfortunately I also cannot see the photos. Stupid old browser at work....I'll try at home sometime.
Ummm, so stupid question. How do we vote? In comments or what?
I was thinking of that same game. EPIC.
I would say the main difference is Smith's drop off in B1G play. His shooting percentage has tanked. Also, Ross takes more shots, so has higher scoring. Otherwise, Smith has more assists and fewer turnovers, but Ross has more rebounds and blocks.
That's a great point about people who can't afford the standard season price. Personally, I think its great to see the stadium full for a spring game, but raising the price deters people from coming. I would have gone for $5 as a family outing with my wife and kids (2 yrs old and 5 months), but now it will cost $25 for my wife and I, and our kids would probably want to leave after 30 minutes, so it wouldn't be worth it. I can see $5 as a cost of hosting the event, but trying to find the max price people would still pay for an exhibition game seems greedy. Isn't OSU technically a non-profit organization? I know that's a joke these days, but still. The game isn't THAT entertaining. Part of me wants to see low attendance to teach the administration a lesson, though I'd feel bad for the players/recruits.
Oh thanks for the clarification. I remember seeing that earlier.