Will agree with this. I hate the huge plays, but at least I don't have to watch us get killed via dink and dunk passes all night long like last year. That was basically just conceding yards. I still want to see some serious improvement, but I'm glad we are making the offenses work for everything they get.
I agree 100% it takes time. And having veterans who have started multiple years is huge. I just wish Eli Apple & co could pick it up as fast as bradley roby or Chris Gamble did. Then again, Roby/Gamble had the benefit of being complete freak athletes. Miss those guys.
Thats what always puzzled me. I remember him having a good first year, but then he declined senior year. It was really that Navy game senior year that hurt him on the depth chart. He was a solid guy though.
I applaud your faith in Ash, but attributing all the big plays to mental lapses in the secondary should not provide any sort of consolation. What would you rather have?
Option A: A good athlete with poor mental awareness
Option B: A mediocre athlete with good mental awareness
I will generally side with option B. I'm glad that the big plays were not due to our secondary guys being overwhelmed athletically, but these mental lapses are still a serious problem. Stefon Diggs is going to have a record game this weekend if these mental errors prove to be a problem again.
I agree that the performance thus far has been pretty inexcusable. UC has some pretty good WRs though so I don't think it was feasible to completely shut them down. As others have said, UC passes for a living and this was our first game against a pass heavy offense. So I think improvements will be on the way. That being said, making Chris Moore look like Sammy Watkins is indefensible. I know Ash said all three plays were due to mental errors, but that doesn't make it any less worse. I also wonder if Gareon Conley will get more playing time after Eli Apple looked like he was running a 4.8 forty on that one play.
On a side note: You may want to take Anderson Russel off that list. Those are elite OSU defenders you listed and a safety who got replaced his senior season probably doesn't deserve to be listed next to AJ Hawk.
For me the biggest factor will be starting field position for Cincy. We helped Michael Brewer out a ton by giving him short fields to work with in the 1st half. Gunner Kiel is a young QB and while he is very talented, I don't think he is going to lead four 80 yard drives. He will hit on some big plays, but those are containable if Cincy is starting at their own 20 or 25. I just don't want Cincy starting at their own 45, hitting one big pass on 1st down and then practically being in the red zone already. Lets make this young QB prove he can lead a 12-15 play drive and consistently throw the ball accurately with Bosa in his face. Gunner may very well throw the ball 50 times, but not many QBs can deal with that type of volume under pressure and still avoid throwing a couple of interceptions. Maybe ole Johnny Football could, but this kid ain't johnny (hopefully I don't eat these words come saturday). Go Bucks!
Lol, I don't think anyone is trying to make a serious report out of this. I know I wasn't. I was just looking at the numbers and wondering what factors might have contributed to so many players leaving or being dismissed, etc. This is not a dissertation man. It is just a random Thursday football discussion. So try not to get all worked up about the use of the word "defection." I'm not suggesting they all vanished in the night. When I mentioned a leave rate I was just referring to any player who left due to injuries, dismissal, transfer, etc. I can go back and research every case, but I'm pretty sure a majority of the players left on their own accord due to injury concerns or other personal reasons.......Regardless, the data from Catch 5 shows that other schools have suffered far worse attrition rates over a three year period. By the way, thanks Catch 5 for posting all that data!! Puts this all in better context.
Thanks for the feedback guys. I would be interested to see what the average departure rate is for SEC schools..... I guess I was just really stunned by 2010 when about 50% of kids left. Obviously a lot of turmoil happened at Ohio State, but I was still surprised more didn't stick around. Oh well, at least 2013 class has remained solid.
Actually, scratch that 3-2-6 thought. Wouldn't allow us to get as much pressure on Gunner and rattle his cage.
As others have said, Cincy will be a huge test. Put yourself in Tommy Tuberville's shoes. How would you attack Ohio State? Personally, I wouldn't try and trick Ohio State by putting more emphasis into run game. No amount of trickery is going to allow the Bearcats to push around Ohio State's D-line. I would simply do exactly what Ohio State is expecting and throw the ball 40 times. Pass D is still a weakness for OSU until proven otherwise. Although, I would rarely challenge Ohio State deep except on a few play action plays. Gunner isn't going to have 5-7 seconds to sit back comfortably and wait for deep play to develop. To avoid inevitable OSU pass rush I would get the ball out in 2-4 seconds on majority of plays. Target short and intermediate part of field, specifically areas where Curtis Grant and Perry will have coverage duties. I would also heavily target the likes of Armani Reeves/Cam Burrows or whoever else will be the 5th/6th defensive back on the field in nickel/dime packages. Ohio State has some solid players in secondary, but Cincy presents some serious mismatches. I don't know who Cincy has at TE, but as long as the guy is an adequate athlete he should exploit the inevitable Grant/Perry matchup all night long. Unless Ohio State decides to put a DB on the TE from the very start.
All this being said, Gunner is still young and Cincy hasn't played a D like Ohio State's. I see Cincy having some mild success offensively, but ultimately settling in the 21-28 pt range. I would be surprised if Ohio State just got torched for 35 or 42 points....Also, just a thought but has anyone been wondering how a 3-2-6 Dime scheme might look against Cincy? With Bosa/Washington/Bennett on D-line, Perry/Lee at LB, Apple/D Grant/Reeves/Burrows/Powell/Bell in secondary.
I think we are all scared that Cincy will attempt to play Cover 0 like VT. Granted, Cincy doesn't have the same talent as VT on defense. Still, Cincy will have adequate athletes and will be able to load up box and make Ohio State throw the ball to win. Any D coordinator who doesn't do this is insane. JT showed improvement last week, but D coordinators will take those one-on-one matchups if it ensures shutting down OSU run game. Obviously Kent State can't afford to play Cover 0 since they don't have the athletes, but I suspect Cincy might attempt to do so. I think the Ohio State offense has loads of potential but the Cover 0 puts a ton of pressure on a young QB. This worries me.
I have been wondering the exact same thing! Injuries maybe or academic issues? No idea. Anybody out there have some info on this kids whereabouts? HS reward if found.
Exactly, get some of these guys in there and test their grit. Why not go ahead and at least let Kwon rotate with Grant on every other series for this game. He will be captain of the D down the road and it might not hurt to start him later this season if Grant proves ineffective. Really excited to see Erick Smith as well. Hasn't played a snap, but perhaps could develop into the next Donte Hitner (I mean Whitner).
I like the idea of having both a time rule and HS rule. I have been a member for several months now but am just getting to 100 HS. I comment sporadically. So I think 2 months or 100 HS (whichever comes first) is a good rule to follow.
Mike, thank you for your service to our country and Ohio State! You are a true Buckeye hero!!!
Pretty much agree with this. Although, I think it can function with a good passer and adequate runner as well. It may never look like the 2013 offense, but it can score 35-40 points a game. JT is just a kid who hasn't played a down of college football and is making mistakes that all freshman make. It would help if he could run a 4.4 to alleviate these mistakes, but he can't. Torrance Gibson sure as hell can, but I have heard mixed reviews about his accuracy.......
I think he overslept and missed the game. In all seriousness, I don't know. But having 4 new offensive linemen and a green QB doesn't help.
Let me clarify this since this whole MENSA crap has taken on way too much discussion. I don't think MENSA has anything to do with what he does on the football field. I mentioned that one time to address people treating him like an idiot, but that was a mistake. MENSA is irrelevant when discussing X's and O's. My apologies buckeye nation.
Well, we are both being pretty generous to be honest. Let me clarify, I think Herman is a "very good" offensive coordinator. Genius was a reach to be sure. Top 3? No way. Top 10?....to be determined. How Herman crafts this offense together from scratch will tell us a lot. I don't think Herman is in the same league as a Chad Morris. He may not even be in the same league as an offensive mind like Gus Malzahn. So, in retrospect genius was being a little too kind. Still, I would say he is top 15 and light years ahead of someone like Jim Bollman.
Hell no we shouldn't be ok with it! I don't want to turn into UM! To me, losing to VT was way worse than losing to MSU or Clemson. Even though we have a lot of holes on this team, Ohio State clearly has more overall talent than VT... I guess I'm just saying we should get off Herman a little bit. For the moment. If we prove offensively inept to PSU and UM I will be the first to attack Herman though.
Man, I wish I had the answers to any of those questions. I would have loved to see some of those sets. And I am surprised Herman stayed with zone read so long considering it was never going to work schematically. I don't know, I still believe Herman is a great O coordinator, but talking with some of you guys has made me consider other points. Really like you double TE set point. Especially when you got great tight ends like Heurman and Vannett. Honestly, that is what has baffled me most through games 1-2.
100% agree. Nobody should be above criticism and hopefully I haven't given the impression that Herman is without fault. I just see our struggles as having multiple aspects. Struggling o-line, rookie QB play, green pass defense. And it is true that the D has put us in a position to win. But it is also true that D has been torched and required the offense to score more than 28 to win every time. And I agree that 28 is always within reason, but I guess I just miss the old days when the silver bullets would hold good teams to 14 or 17 points. If only.
Every offensive genius will look inept when given a porous offensive line, a rookie QB, and wide receivers who continue to struggle. We haven't given Herman much to work with this year. Sure, Warriner provided an excellent line last year, but Warriner did not call the plays or mold Braxton Miller into an excellent QB. Herman did that.
An insane statement? How is that insane when Urban Meyer has said the exact same thing? Perhaps Urban is insane as well, but I'm more than happy to be in his company. Keep hating on Herman though and calling him "pedestrian." He only called the offensive plays for an offense that averaged 45.5 points last year. Oh, but I forgot, anyone with Warriner's line could have called the plays and seen the exact same results.
I agree that some different play calling was necessary. No doubt.Trust me, I understand the frustration of all our fans. I'm still sick to my stomach over those long passing plays that became extremely difficult to watch.
Now, does throwing some more slants really change the outcome? Maybe it does get us some more first downs, who knows. I'm sure Herman considered this option, but decided against it. Why he decided against it I'm not sure. Maybe he wasn't confident in JT's short accuracy. Who knows his reasoning. But at the end of the day, I trust the judgement of Herman, who has proven to be extremely successful. If he ruled out slants, screens, and draws I believe he had good reasoning. I think what we all want is for Herman to explain to Buckeye nation why he choose to avoid the short passing game. Like all of you, I would feel better if Herman could articulate why he thought those short passes would fail.