Actually, scratch that 3-2-6 thought. Wouldn't allow us to get as much pressure on Gunner and rattle his cage.
As others have said, Cincy will be a huge test. Put yourself in Tommy Tuberville's shoes. How would you attack Ohio State? Personally, I wouldn't try and trick Ohio State by putting more emphasis into run game. No amount of trickery is going to allow the Bearcats to push around Ohio State's D-line. I would simply do exactly what Ohio State is expecting and throw the ball 40 times. Pass D is still a weakness for OSU until proven otherwise. Although, I would rarely challenge Ohio State deep except on a few play action plays. Gunner isn't going to have 5-7 seconds to sit back comfortably and wait for deep play to develop. To avoid inevitable OSU pass rush I would get the ball out in 2-4 seconds on majority of plays. Target short and intermediate part of field, specifically areas where Curtis Grant and Perry will have coverage duties. I would also heavily target the likes of Armani Reeves/Cam Burrows or whoever else will be the 5th/6th defensive back on the field in nickel/dime packages. Ohio State has some solid players in secondary, but Cincy presents some serious mismatches. I don't know who Cincy has at TE, but as long as the guy is an adequate athlete he should exploit the inevitable Grant/Perry matchup all night long. Unless Ohio State decides to put a DB on the TE from the very start.
All this being said, Gunner is still young and Cincy hasn't played a D like Ohio State's. I see Cincy having some mild success offensively, but ultimately settling in the 21-28 pt range. I would be surprised if Ohio State just got torched for 35 or 42 points....Also, just a thought but has anyone been wondering how a 3-2-6 Dime scheme might look against Cincy? With Bosa/Washington/Bennett on D-line, Perry/Lee at LB, Apple/D Grant/Reeves/Burrows/Powell/Bell in secondary.
I think we are all scared that Cincy will attempt to play Cover 0 like VT. Granted, Cincy doesn't have the same talent as VT on defense. Still, Cincy will have adequate athletes and will be able to load up box and make Ohio State throw the ball to win. Any D coordinator who doesn't do this is insane. JT showed improvement last week, but D coordinators will take those one-on-one matchups if it ensures shutting down OSU run game. Obviously Kent State can't afford to play Cover 0 since they don't have the athletes, but I suspect Cincy might attempt to do so. I think the Ohio State offense has loads of potential but the Cover 0 puts a ton of pressure on a young QB. This worries me.
I have been wondering the exact same thing! Injuries maybe or academic issues? No idea. Anybody out there have some info on this kids whereabouts? HS reward if found.
Exactly, get some of these guys in there and test their grit. Why not go ahead and at least let Kwon rotate with Grant on every other series for this game. He will be captain of the D down the road and it might not hurt to start him later this season if Grant proves ineffective. Really excited to see Erick Smith as well. Hasn't played a snap, but perhaps could develop into the next Donte Hitner (I mean Whitner).
I like the idea of having both a time rule and HS rule. I have been a member for several months now but am just getting to 100 HS. I comment sporadically. So I think 2 months or 100 HS (whichever comes first) is a good rule to follow.
Mike, thank you for your service to our country and Ohio State! You are a true Buckeye hero!!!
Pretty much agree with this. Although, I think it can function with a good passer and adequate runner as well. It may never look like the 2013 offense, but it can score 35-40 points a game. JT is just a kid who hasn't played a down of college football and is making mistakes that all freshman make. It would help if he could run a 4.4 to alleviate these mistakes, but he can't. Torrance Gibson sure as hell can, but I have heard mixed reviews about his accuracy.......
I think he overslept and missed the game. In all seriousness, I don't know. But having 4 new offensive linemen and a green QB doesn't help.
Let me clarify this since this whole MENSA crap has taken on way too much discussion. I don't think MENSA has anything to do with what he does on the football field. I mentioned that one time to address people treating him like an idiot, but that was a mistake. MENSA is irrelevant when discussing X's and O's. My apologies buckeye nation.
Well, we are both being pretty generous to be honest. Let me clarify, I think Herman is a "very good" offensive coordinator. Genius was a reach to be sure. Top 3? No way. Top 10?....to be determined. How Herman crafts this offense together from scratch will tell us a lot. I don't think Herman is in the same league as a Chad Morris. He may not even be in the same league as an offensive mind like Gus Malzahn. So, in retrospect genius was being a little too kind. Still, I would say he is top 15 and light years ahead of someone like Jim Bollman.
Hell no we shouldn't be ok with it! I don't want to turn into UM! To me, losing to VT was way worse than losing to MSU or Clemson. Even though we have a lot of holes on this team, Ohio State clearly has more overall talent than VT... I guess I'm just saying we should get off Herman a little bit. For the moment. If we prove offensively inept to PSU and UM I will be the first to attack Herman though.
Man, I wish I had the answers to any of those questions. I would have loved to see some of those sets. And I am surprised Herman stayed with zone read so long considering it was never going to work schematically. I don't know, I still believe Herman is a great O coordinator, but talking with some of you guys has made me consider other points. Really like you double TE set point. Especially when you got great tight ends like Heurman and Vannett. Honestly, that is what has baffled me most through games 1-2.
100% agree. Nobody should be above criticism and hopefully I haven't given the impression that Herman is without fault. I just see our struggles as having multiple aspects. Struggling o-line, rookie QB play, green pass defense. And it is true that the D has put us in a position to win. But it is also true that D has been torched and required the offense to score more than 28 to win every time. And I agree that 28 is always within reason, but I guess I just miss the old days when the silver bullets would hold good teams to 14 or 17 points. If only.
Every offensive genius will look inept when given a porous offensive line, a rookie QB, and wide receivers who continue to struggle. We haven't given Herman much to work with this year. Sure, Warriner provided an excellent line last year, but Warriner did not call the plays or mold Braxton Miller into an excellent QB. Herman did that.
An insane statement? How is that insane when Urban Meyer has said the exact same thing? Perhaps Urban is insane as well, but I'm more than happy to be in his company. Keep hating on Herman though and calling him "pedestrian." He only called the offensive plays for an offense that averaged 45.5 points last year. Oh, but I forgot, anyone with Warriner's line could have called the plays and seen the exact same results.
I agree that some different play calling was necessary. No doubt.Trust me, I understand the frustration of all our fans. I'm still sick to my stomach over those long passing plays that became extremely difficult to watch.
Now, does throwing some more slants really change the outcome? Maybe it does get us some more first downs, who knows. I'm sure Herman considered this option, but decided against it. Why he decided against it I'm not sure. Maybe he wasn't confident in JT's short accuracy. Who knows his reasoning. But at the end of the day, I trust the judgement of Herman, who has proven to be extremely successful. If he ruled out slants, screens, and draws I believe he had good reasoning. I think what we all want is for Herman to explain to Buckeye nation why he choose to avoid the short passing game. Like all of you, I would feel better if Herman could articulate why he thought those short passes would fail.
My point is that Herman is not an idiot like everyone is making him out to be. No one here could have done a better job of calling plays. That is for damn sure. We replace all of our production from last year and everyone gets pissed when we only score 21 points in the 2nd game. The truth is, 21 points should have been enough to beat Virginia Tech! Their offense was paltry last year and won't be much better this year. Our D should not have given up 28 points to these guys. Can we please stop blaming Herman and address how we let that Brewer kid carve us up!
It matters when the guys on the D-line are better than the guys they are lining up against. It is also harder to knock back a group that has 8 defenders when you only have 6 blockers. You can't knock back someone who doesn't have a body on him.
Wow..... This is shocking to me. One game and everyone forgets all the years we attacked Bollman 24/7 for being so vanilla and simple. Yep, lets go back to Bollman. This spread offense thing really hasn't made a difference.
A little reminder for all Ohio State fans:
2 years under Herman: 41.3 points per game
11 previous year under Jim Bollman: 29.3 points per game
Can we please stop all these attacks on Herman's play calling ability. Herman has developed the most prolific Ohio State offense in memory. Herman is probably more responsible for our 24-0 run than any other coach (not counting Meyer). Herman is also a member of MENSA, which means he is probably more naturally intelligent than every single person who has posted here. So can we please stop all this arm chair coaching. Herman is an offensive genius and did his best with what is left of our dismantled 2013 offense. Replacing four offensive line veterans, starting WR, 1,500 yard all beast mode back, and a Heisman worthy QB is beyond extremely difficult. It is almost impossible. Lets just be thankful that we got 21 points. We easily could have been UM this past weekend.
Not entirely accurate. Jacoby Boren, Pat Elfein, Darryl Baldwin, Devin Smith, Evan Spencer, Jeff Heurman, Doran Grant, Curtis Grant, Michael Bennett, and Tyvis Powell all committed (or were already on roster) before urban became coach. That is 10 starters that Urban didn't really recruit for his system. Now I'm not saying any of these guys are bad players, but if Urban had been hired a couple years earlier you definitely wouldn't see many of these faces on the roster right now. I have to believe that Meyer would have attracted some significantly better offensive line recruits and skill players. Many things can be blamed for our current problems, but Meyers recruiting ability should not be among them. We are just suffering from an extremely inexperienced offensive line, a rookie QB, and a secondary that is still learning every week.
I understand your point and I'm not saying USC should have gotten off the hook completely free. I'm just saying it is worse to turn a blind eye to children being raped than a player receiving free housing. AND Penn State did receive a competitive advantage: They didn't have to endure a PR nightmare in 2002 that would have rocked the program. Nobody can tell me that Penn State did not benefit from avoiding what would have been a huge scandal covered extensively by the media. Sure, if they came out in 2002 and revealed the story they would have avoided sanctions, but the Penn State brand would still have been severely damaged. In my opinion, Penn State gained more in covering up the child sex abuse scandal than USC did in covering up Reggie Bush's wrongdoing.
Maybe a few more drag routes would have helped, but ultimately would not have made much of a difference. WR sweep would not have worked in my opinion. Too many completely free linebackers and safeties to pull off that type of play. We talk all the time about getting playmakers out in space, but Virginia Techs alignment focused completely on shutting down the run and their excellent corners made even short passes difficult. When a team sells out 100% on stopping the run you have to have wide receivers who can separate and make plays. We didn't have that saturday night. Furthermore, Spencer and Smith have shown us that they are completely useless in the short passing game. With regard to short passing game, Heurman should have been much more involved for sure. That would have helped, but at the end of the day you had an porous offensive line and a QB who is a complete rookie right now. More short passing might have gotten us a couple more first downs, but would not have changed the number of points on the board.
Agree that the defense was well prepared and that curtis grant is a massive liability in coverage. As for Herman, our skill players were in space. They had more space to operate in than they will see all year. Herman could have called some shorter passes, but for the most part the Buckeyes had their speedsters in desirable one-one-one matchups all night. For whatever reason, these skill position players just didn't make the plays. Part of blame is definitely on Barrett for some extremely bad throws, but guys like Corey Smith and Evan Spencer proved to be complete duds. We also got to give some credit to Kendall Fuller and VT secondary. They played lights out. I will say this though, Herman has to get Heurman more involved. Barrett needs a safety valve with sure hands that can dominate those short to intermediate passes.
I understand why many in Buckeye nation think we were not prepared for VT. It sure looked like it at times during the game. However, I do not believe this to be the case with regard to the offense. As others have noted, Bud Foster simply followed the MSU game plan and put 7 in the box every single down. Every one of our wide receivers saw one-on-one coverage for most of the game. So how do you combat this? You can't run the ball. Not when the defense has two completely free unblocked defenders for every play. You can play the numbers game and call designed QB runs in order to give yourself the extra blocker. This was very effective with Braxton (most of the time) but Barrett can't hit the edge nearly as fast. I don't care who you are, when a good D puts that many people 5 yards from the line, you are not going to have success running. Herman tried to run anyway, but six blockers cannot occupy eight defenders. It is mathematical. This type of D leaves you no option but to pass. And it is honestly a good option most of the time! Single coverage on every WR and no deep safety help!! And for every freaking play! Normally I would say YES PLEASE!!!!Unfortunately, I'm Tom Herman and I have a rookie QB, inexperienced offensive line, and a WR core that has some serious issues. So, I can either run it for no gain all night or try and take advantage of what the defense has given me despite my team's apparent weaknesses. Now perhaps Herman could have called a few more shorter passes, but VT has very good press corners and I don't think that would have made a huge difference. Herman was not out-coached, he simply did not have the QB, O-line, and WR core necessary to get the job done. Even if you replace Herman with Chip Kelly, the offensive outcome would not have changed a bit.