If Malik was healthy and participating at the combine a 4.50+ 40 wouldn't shock me at all nor would it make me look at him any differently. I don't think he's ever really had the chance to show off his straight line speed except for in his high school offensive highlights, and it looked solid but not elite. I think he'd run in that 4.48 - 4.53 range, which isn't bad at all for a 6-1.5, 205 LB safety with great instincts and good quickness.
You're not always going to be able to raise your stock just by staying another year. Jalin Marshall, if he came back in 2016... was still going to be 5-10, 200 lbs, run a 4.60 40, and not have much experience running NFL level routes. He was still going to be undrafted most likely (especially considering how much of a clown show the 2016 passing offense was). Some people are going to be projected to be a 3rd round pick in 2017, come back for another year, get better in multiple areas of their games, but at the end of the day... they're still a 3rd round pick. It's all about the eyeball test... do Lewis and Hubbard really look like 1st round caliber DEs to you? To me... no. Are they very good football players and virtual locks to be first team all-B1G next season? Yes. With they be drafted any later than the 4th round next year? I highly doubt it, and that's impressive and tells you how talented they are. It's hard to be drafted in the top 2 rounds of the draft... you're talking about a huge pool of talent to choose from concentrated to only 64 picks.
You also have to take NFL mock draft / stock projections with an incredibly small grain of salt, as well as all-conference awards... those things aren't meaningless, but they're not going to indicate how NFL teams will view the player as a prospect.
Are there any sources for this? I'm not saying I don't believe you, but he was 225 when he first got on campus, and got up to 248 before last season started... we're saying he's 290 now? I know Washington did something similar before his true freshman season, but he was just always going to be a natural 290 pounder. This just doesn't really make sense.
As of right now, I think:
Lewis - late 2nd at the absolutely earliest, to late 4th at the latest. Just a very solid all around DE but not elite in any category
Hubbard - depends on how he tests (pretty well I'll assume), but I don't see a first round pick at the moment. He's in that 2nd - 4th round range as well.
Holmes - I really think he might end up going higher than people are expecting. Perfect size for an NFL end (6-5, 275) with some scheme versatility (can play a little 3-tech on 3rd down). Purely based on potential he might be the best pro prospect of all of them.
Sprinkle and Hill? We know pretty much next to nothing about Sprinkle, and a player like Hill, while solid, is a dime a dozen. It's not easy to be drafted; it seems like a lot of kids go each year, but you're talking about a small population of D-1 that gets that opportunity (around 2.5% if my math is correct).
I'm interested to see how many of these 10 CBs make the move over to safety because you know that's going to happen. It makes no sense to go into the season having 10 bodies at CB when you usually play 4 at the most and only having 5 at safety. Candidates IMO are Burns, Riep, Arnette, and possibly Wade and Okudah. Not all will of course, but I'd wager at least two make the move (thinking Riep and Arnette maybe). They liked Arnette a lot before the season and talked him up a lot. He's a solid hitter, but not the speediest CB. He's got the size for it; I honestly thought he was gonna be a safety from the start. I could see him going the Damon Webb route.
Literally was JUST about to make the Mitchell comparison. Their film looks very similar. Not sure he sticks at LB... there was something just off to me about Mitchell's film... he was too lanky, a bit awkward, way too many arm / drag down tackles, and just looked really raw but straight line fast... and I felt eventually he'd end up with his hand in the dirt. I think Wilson is eerily similar.
Found it haha https://www.buckeyeplanet.com/forum/posts/2289790/
I know he's stated explicitly that he's a DB AND DB ONLY... but I couldnt help but think LB when I watched his film. Doesn't seem to be an elite athlete, but at 6-2, 205 as a junior with his skill set I think he'd make an ideal SAM.
I'd be very surprised. I think there's a good chance Wade, Okudah, and Browning end up in the two-deep though.
How I think it plays out IMO:
CB: Ward (guaranteed starter), Okudah, Norwood, Williamson (I feel fairly confident Okudah will find himself in the two-deep here, but nothing is guaranteed)
CB: Arnette OR Sheffield, Burns, Davis
SS: Smith OR Jordan Fuller, Wade, Wint (read a lot of people saying that Wade's best position might be safety)
FS: Webb (was picked on as the weakest link in the secondary last season, but how often do players lose their starting job under Meyer? He'll be the guy, and hopefully improves), Riep (moves to safety)
I'm also assuming Pryor moves to SLB to fill the spot vacated by White (due to the mass exodus of WRs this offseason) but that might not happen.
Following the 2017 season Ward goes pro as all 3rd year #1 OSU CBs do, Sheffield says he's one and done, and Webb graduates. Leaving Okudah and Arnette / Burns as your 2018 CBS, and Wade and Fuller as your likely 2018 safeties.
I think one confusing thing about how OSU plays their safeties is their naming and their responsibilities. I'm fairly certain that the FS in this system is the coverage safety, essentially a nickel CB. This is the position that Bell played. The SS is the safety they have playing deep in single high coverage, but that may have mainly just been 2016 to take advantage of Hooker's ridiculous range. The point is I'm pretty sure Webb was the FS and Hooker was the SS last season, even though that seems ass backwards.
This so much. It drives me crazy...
I want to see production on the field first before I start hyping up any young player. You would think Ben Victor and Alex Mack were prime Randy Moss and Jerry Rice that Urban was "sitting on the bench" last season. Myers, who struggled all week at the U.S. Army All-American game is going to come in day one and start over Prince. Wade and Okudah starting over Ward and Arnette day one, etc.
Meyer is going to play the best guy. You think he feels he owes Parris Campbell and Terry McLaurin playing time over those freshman WRs just because? No, I just think they felt they were more ready to contribute on the field. Michael Jordan shows that if a true freshman is the best player, he'll start day one. Started over Knox, Lisle, Burrell, etc. It's just very rare (and not good) if a true freshman is your best option.
How many 4-5 star guys have we seen come in here and do absolutely nothing or be totally average and fans still do this stuff all the time before guys even step foot on the field.
I'm right there with you man; I just want the best players to play. I think what annoys me though is that I see this every year; everyone just wants the new, shiny young guys that have literally done nothing in the program but had a nice high school highlight film and a 4 star ranking attached to their name to start over everyone, and people act shocked and appalled that they aren't. These guys could just as easily be busts but people are treating them like they're sure things. So clearly, the coaches that see these guys on a daily basis and work with them through every drill in practice are making obvious personnel mistakes that everyone at home on the couch can point out.
I love how everyone is SO sure Mack and Victor will start / should start over McLaurin and Campbell.
People are gonna be shittin' bricks on here when it's not the case come next season.
Ellison is a good back but there's no way he's running much better than a 4.72 - 4.75.
I know, but he's basically viewed as a starter. Same with Ward this season at CB; they're going to play just as many snaps as the starters.
You can if you'd like. It's a solid list.
I don't disagree that it can't be done, but there wasn't as much gray area with some of those guys IMO. There was never a doubt what position Cobb (WR), Austin (WR), Diggs (WR), Lockett (WR), White (RB) would play. I'm huge into the draft and so Montgomery is interesting; I remember many people in the draft community feeling like his best pro position would be RB, so it’s funny that he did indeed end up making the switch a few years later. Hill is a good example.
Those guys were way more polished / experienced at their respective positions though with the exception of Hill, who was a straight up RB if I recall. They had played their NFL position at the college level for years; I know Austin got some carries his senior year out of the backfield (350+ rushing against Oklahoma). Hybrid guys can be successful in the league; that wasn’t what I was implying. It was more of what I’ve seen from Samuel on the field and how his skills will translate. There’s no denying he’s insanely talented; that doesn’t guarantee success however.
I am aware. That's how guys become tweeners.
What's your point?
There's something about Samuel's game that unfortunately makes me feel like his transition to the next level might be difficult. He's the ultimate tweener. He's not a dynamic returner, he's got good hands but him catching the ball sometimes doesn't look natural, and his route running is pretty sloppy / under-developed. He's got a little bit too much east-west in his game (Braxton Miller) when running the ball.
But holy shit is he explosive and strong for his size and the guy was open deep ALL YEAR. He got a good amount of deep balls but Barrett missed him wide open for long bombs at least 5-7 times that I remember. I think he'll show up to the combine around 5-10.5, 205 lbs and run a 4.38 or so. I'm just not sure where he fits in the NFL, but his size suggests slot WR. I've always been curious what Samuel would look like beefed up and around 210 - 215 lbs as a true running back. Really hope he figures out how to put those ridiculous physical tools together and find a niche; was underused at OSU for sure.
Think his size / physical skill set is hurting him. Real good player, but he's probably around 6-2, 300 lbs and strictly a center at the next level with that size.
He's around the same size (maybe slightly bigger) than Linsley, who has been a solid center for Green Bay after being picked in the 6th round and was a better player in college, so I think he'll be just fine.
I agree that Elflein and Jones both had pretty solid years, but using him winning the Remington award as evidence that he had a great season is always going to be kind of questionable. It's usually just more of a popularity contest / big name kind of thing with that stuff.
I think it’ll look something like:
X:Victor, Mack, Grimes (possible RS), Harris (possible RS)
H: Campbell, McCall, Glover-Williams
Z: Hill / McLaurin, Stump, White (possible RS)
I’m thinking it’s going to be similar to 2014 when they had 6 “starters” (D. Smith, Spencer, Thomas, Marshall, Wilson, C. Smith) and the 6 in this rotation will be Victor, Campbell, Hill, Mack, McCall, and McLaurin. I’m never going to count on freshmen to contribute much at all going off of the past (remember how productive Mack was supposed to be? How much he was going to play and how college ready he was?). Grimes is coming off an ACL. White played a lot of QB last season and is raw. Harris is big but is raw as well and needs some fine tuning.
I think if the QB is accurate and doesn’t hold this group back and Wilson devises an actual passing scheme that makes sense this group will be pretty good. I also think at the end of the year people will be saying “Maybe Campbell and McLaurin weren’t so bad after all…”
I agree with you and I've mentioned it several times on here before. This passing games needs fixed quick.
He had a big jump in the ratings after he committed if I recall.
I know, I remember him being listed on all of the recruiting sites around 195-200 lbs, and then he was 220 lbs on the 2013 roster as a true freshman and I thought "maybe this kid won't be a speed back after all". The physical development was pretty crazy; definitely a late bloomer kind of guy that just blew up in the S&C program.
Just in general? You're definitely not wrong. There's not a ton of successful WRs over 6-4. Look at the top 15 receiving leaders in the NFL this year...
5-9, 6-3, 5-11, 6-5, 5-10, 6-3, 5-10, 6-1, 6-3, 5-11, 5-10, 5-10, 6-3, 5-10. 8 of the guys are 5-11 or shorter.
Some things are easier for big bodied WRs (jump balls), but a lot of the technical aspects of playing receiver become more difficult, like actually separating from defenders (route running). Look at a guy like Jarvis Landry. 5-11, runs a 4.77 40 yard dash, but he can't be covered because of how well he runs his routes. I think it's the same deal where everyone likes the ideas of big 6-3+ DBs but in actuality the height can actually be a detriment to their game and that's why you don't see very many of them over 6-3. It looks better on paper and works better in Madden than in real life; the Calvin Johnsons, Randy Moss, and Mike Evans of the world are just super freaks.
I do love me some big bodied WRs though that are just big dudes that gain separation mainly with body positioning and strength (Brandon Marshall). Clearly the coaches are moving towards a certain type of guy to play out wide here; Harris (6-5), Mack (6-2), Grimes (6-4), Victor (6-4), White (6-2), Stump (6-3).
From what I recall, Zeke was a 3-star in the beginning. Of course, that was when Derrick Green was all the rage, and I remember thinking a 3-star RB from Missouri instead? Hmmm... Shows what I know...