I said "when." 'Cause we are far from having the same talent level now. OSU playing Michigan right now is an NFL team playing a college team. It just isn't fair. Having said that, "if" Harbaugh recruits at approximately the same level for a couple more years, the talent level will even out. Between recruiting rankings, sleepers, injuries, early entry, bad stuff that happens, etc., Michigan has a "chance" to catch up to OSU in talent level by the 2018 recruiting class. And that's assuming Michigan's 2017 class is on a par with OSU. If Michigan has three solid classes (2016, 2017, and 2018), along with a little luck, the talent level will be much closer.
How indeed did they not repeat. But that ship has sailed and that horse is beat to death.
10 players in the first three rounds of the NFL draft. And you couldn't beat MSU. Would that be considered a choke job? I don't know. But I know Michigan had one guy taken in the first 3 rounds. And had a QB who couldn't even win the starting job at Iowa. It's no wonder the dominance of OSU in the Big 10. The Michigan game will be a little bit more interesting when Michigan is putting more or less the same talent level on the field as OSU.
I've said it before, with the juggernaut Meyer has in recruiting, OSU doesn't need to do satellite camps. And iirc, OSU is still participating in several camps . . . one in Columbus, one in Florida, and the "Sound Mind, Sound Body" in Detroit. The fact of the matter is, Michigan is so far behind, Harbaugh has to work a lot harder than Meyer. And working harder STILL isn't enough to catch up. For crying out loud, the number of first round NFL draft choices coming from Columbus is obscene. OSU in football is like Kentucky in basketball. Kids come to play ball, not to play school. And frankly, I don't blame them.
Oh, and regarding Harbaugh and wasted effort, if he and the Michigan staff uncover 2 - 3 diamonds in the rough that no one else has seen, that can make a huge difference. In fact, I would argue that the best possible kind of class would be a bunch of guys with strength, speed, and football intangibles who were overlooked by everyone else, guys who didn't go to lots of camps, and who weren't out there for everyone to see. You get enough classes with the talent, it will begin to make a difference on the field.
Very tough. Sorry to see this for Munger. Always want to beat OSU, but not this way. One of my fraternity brothers died in his sleep from a similar condition.
OSU was already a bit thin on the DL, and this will make things even more difficult. Meyer already said this was one of the most uncertain spots on the roster. I suspect that some guys who really ideally would have red-shirted might be pressed into service a bit early. And this might mean another slot in the limited 2017 recruiting class will have to go to an interior DL recruit.
This year will be a wild ride for OSU in terms of recruiting. Meyer is in a position of great strength over the last 4 - 5 years. However, the numbers in the class will make it a bit harder. The greyshirt for Sibley is a sign of things to come. Meyer did the right thing in letting Sibley know now. Still, it has to be tricky to make offers with so few openings.
I looked at the best players in Michigan, and the best in Ohio. The pool (as always), is deeper in Ohio. OSU should sign 7 of the top 10, and don't even want numbers 8 & 9. The avg at 247 for those 7 players is 93.85. That's obscene. Michigan should get 6 of the top 10 in Michigan, with an average of 92.83. What helps Michigan out is they have plenty of room in the 2017 class. (They have spots right now for 18 - 19 kids, not counting attrition, injury, early entry, etc., which would bring the class up to 25 or so). There are at least 20 solid players in Ohio, but OSU doesn't have room for all of them, and they're not all quite good enough. This opens the door for UM, MSU, ND, and others.
For Michigan, their season will make a difference too. I can see them winning all their games . . . until OSU. Sadly (for me), I think OSU wins again, although I think the game will be closer. Anyway, I think some recruits are attracted to the idea of a team that's "on the rise." From 5 - 7 under Hoke, to 10 - 3 in 2016, to 12 - 1 in 2017, is heading in the right direction. I don't think there's any way the catch up to OSU in terms of the average ranking, etc. But with the numbers, this might be the year UM has the "number 1" class in the Big 10. But as has been said, the quality in OSU's class is incredible. To have 10 players in the top 100 either committed or with OSU leading is insane. Again, Michigan won't surpass that. Their only hope is to have players that fit Michigan's system who are under the radar, and do a lot better than their star ranking. Jake Ryan was one of those. So was Tom Brady. Having the critical leaders and stars at the top to complement those already on the team is critical.
I really loved your post. I had totally forgotten that it was Clemson in the infamous game with Woody. Not my history, but so sad. Really.
As regards playing dirty, I don't doubt what you're saying about the Orange Bowl at all. And trying to knock Braxton out. Historically, Michigan players, at least publicly, respected OSU. They hated OSU, wanted to beat them, but respected them, and played a (relatively) clean game. There are other teams, especially Michigan State, who always seem to play dirty. I hated how much OSU dominated Michigan last year. But I don't recall it being a dirty game. IIRC, the hit where Bosa took Rudock out of the game was hard, but clean, and fair.
Again, I know y'all hate Harbaugh in these here parts. We over here in Michigan love him because he's aggressive, will do anything within the rules to win, but will stay within the rules. I don't see Harbaugh instructing guys to try to injure and "take out" QB's and stars at OSU. Michigan has absolutely no room to mouth off or talk any smack as regards OSU. Your quality of player, your game plan, your coaching, have been superb. But we're really looking forward to Harbaugh bringing positive change, and real competition, hard fought, but clean and fair.
Read the article. But the short version: the HS AD contacted the police in NJ, and also contacted Coney. She both listened to the recording, and had a forwarded copy of the phone call given to her. Michigan wasn't involved at all. The police contacted Clemson and the SC law enforcement, who supposedly were all over it, making sure there weren't deranged fans out to get Gary.
As regards Clemson and their fans, it seems incredible to me that this could be a real phone call from a real Clemson fan. I kind of can't imagine it being anything less than a stupid prank. But yeah, I've been around relatives in the south, where racism is alive and well. I've been to some hollers western Kentucky where things are just "different." I've seen cemeteries there where the slaves were buried. I lived in Florida, and knew some good old boys who weren't northern transplants, and their way of doing things wasn't what I was used to. I've been to backwoods barbecues in East Texas, with plenty of 55 gallon drum smoked brisket, and squirrel, and turkey, all the fixin's, and oh yeah, all the living racism, and the signs that said "trespassers will be shot," and you believed it.
The repercussions were too severe. The disaster for schools less than elite was coming down the pike. Camps like "Sound Mind, Sound Body" in Detroit, DC, and LA, would have been obliterated. Exposure for thousands of football players who are not OSU caliber would have been eliminated. High School coaches, MAC coaches, coaches in the Pac 10, all saw the coming train wreck. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if as grumpy as they might be, once SEC and ACC coaches understood the repercussions, some of them privately had to be supportive of reversing the decision.
FTR, even as a Michigan fan, I'm fine with some kind of restrictions. I still believe having Urban in Florida and Harbaugh in Alabama and Georgia is a good idea, but I think there has to be a common sense limit to the camps. Thing is, work with all those involved: the athletes, the HS coaches, the MAC coaches, along with the Power 5 coaches, to come up with a workable solution.
I know many (most?) here at 11W are all over "F _ichigan" and "F Harbaugh." But ya know, some of what Harbaugh does makes sense and is a good thing for college football, even if you hate his guts.
So here's what I'm curious about: do we really want to know the answer? Do we want Big Brother to manage to voice ID the guy who did this? The obvious answer is "yes, we want the dufus nailed." But part of me wonders about the world we live in, and privacy. I never did anything like that in the least. Didn't even imagine doing something like that. Didn't imagine doing that to get a rival. But I did enough stupid stuff as a teenager, and I realize how much easier it is to be tracked down in today's digital world. With a daughter in the military, I think a lot more about how much you have to watch out what you say, and where and when you say it.
A few comments.
- I don't know why this is just coming into the news. It happened back in January, but is just hitting the MSM outlets now. Who knows. I heard about different things that happened, but I didn't hear the specifics on this until this week.
- I wonder about Jennifer Coney. I'll just stay on the fence there, but she does seem extremely involved in her son's recruitment. Just sayin'.
- The caller contacted Paramus HS, not Jennifer Coney. They told her, and somehow forwarded her the msg.
- Is it worth posting here? Questionable. But I knew Gary was of interest, and I know that both Michigan and OSU have some rabid fans. Plus, I fondly remember Ramzy's "don't contact recruits" screed.
Not all readers from other fanbases are trolls. FTR, I enjoy most of the (self-identified) OSU posters over at mgoblog. My personal observation is that shameless and ignorant homers, both at mgoblog and at 11W, are just as irritating. But that's just me.
Don't have any new insight. The situation is not the same as Michigan, when an offer was pulled from Swenson shortly before NSD. (Although, with Swenson going to Oklahoma, he landed well on his feet). Also, Sibley was offered a greyshirt, while Swenson was offered a firm handshake.
I will say, I don't feel bad about Urban Meyer doing this. The whole world of recruiting is extremely fluid. Honestly, I don't even know the meaning of the word "offer," nor the word "commitment," in terms of college football recruiting. There have been guys in this cycle jonesing for a Michigan offer. Maybe just to say that Michigan offered. I dunno. But the reality is that all offers are fluid.
Things won't improve until the NCAA allows for an early signing period, where the school is bound to honor a scholarship, and the athlete is bound to honor the commitment. I'm thinking that a week in September of Senior year when athletes could sign a LOI would have a huge shift on the recruiting landscape.
Gave the NCAA no choice? Right . . . I'd say the tail is wagging the dog, and the SEC is telling the NCAA how to dance and what to do.
Oh, and it would have been very easy for the NCAA to say, "we will be making a change in 2017, but need time to think of all the unintended consequences before we put rules on satellite camps into place."
Maybe you limit the number of satellite camps. Maybe you limit the satellite camps to one or two weeks of the summer. Maybe you limit the number of satellite camps a coach can be involved in . . . say 5 would do, but not 10? I don't know, but there is a way to fine tune this and stop what Harbaugh was doing without killing the whole thing.
When I was a student at UofM, a bunch of guys from my fraternity went out skiing over break in Colorado. They ended up being kicked out of an all-you-can-eat buffet . . . the THIRD NIGHT they went there. The buffet still said "all you can eat," but the mgt decided there needed to be limitations. That didn't mean that they said, "we're no longer having an all-you-can-eat buffet." They targeted the behavior which they didn't like. That's what should have happened here. This definitely was a case of "throwing out the baby with the bath water."
Umm, not all choices are binary. In the same way that Urban Meyer has been part of camps that benefit OSU and MAC schools, what Harbaugh did benefited a lot of schools. This is what you call a "win - win - win." Good for Michigan, good for a ton of tier 2 schools, good for the student athletes. Sure, it benefited him, and benefited Michigan. But the reality was a lot different than the perception.
Michigan did not get a ton of recruits in 2016 from "Summer Swarm." And I don't think Harbaugh cared. There were a few guys who were offered at the camps, who ended up at Michigan, which was great. But the guys he signed from satellite camps were mostly under the radar guys who didn't have offers in the SEC. Who, pray tell, did Harbaugh "poach" from SEC and ACC schools? There are five guys with "three star rankings, and among them, Devin Bush could have been 4 stars. The guys were Devin Gil and Josh Metellus, Pembroke Pines, FL; Dytarious Johnson and Kingston Davis, Prattville, AL.
Let's look at the state of Alabama, shall we? The top 10 recruits from the state went to Alabama (5 guys), Florida (2 guys), Auburn (2 guys), and Ole Miss (1 guy). I'd hardly say that Michigan poached the cream of the crop. The guys Harbaugh offered and took? Ranked 46 and 67 . . . IN THE STATE OF ALABAMA, for crying out loud. These guys were so low, they didn't get offers from Alabama or Auburn (or OSU, for that matter).
Harbaugh did not "twist" the rules. He wasn't an asshole, and it wasn't a little stunt. The guys Harbaugh signed through the camps would probably not have been offered if Harbaugh hadn't seen them in person. And they certainly wouldn't have paid the expense of going up to Michigan for a camp.
Here's a pic of Harbaugh wearing gold bling backstage at a Migos concert. (Now what's the over/under on some idiot starting a new thread here about Harbaugh and hip hop).
I just read through this thread in it's entirety before posting. I was interested to see if anyone here recalled Urban Meyer's reception a few year's back. Here is a quote from 2012:
Over this off-season, Meyer had been chastised by other Big Ten coaches for breaking “unwritten rules” by talking to players who had already committed to other Big Ten schools. He was called out for not recognizing the “gentleman’s agreement.”
Want to know why the Big Ten has fallen short of the SEC? The last paragraph is a good start.
Meyer learned to be a great head coach at Bowling Green and Utah. He learned to be cut-throat at Florida.
Here is another quote from the same time frame:
The hard feelings emerged when Meyer poached recruits committed to Michigan State, Wisconsin and Penn State after his arrival in Columbus.
Bielema and Dantonio believed there was an unwritten understanding that conference coaches would respect the other school's pledges.
OSU fans complaining about Harbaugh breaking "unwritten rules" is the pot calling the kettle black. You can't praise Urban for doing anything "within the rules" to win, and then blast Harbaugh for doing the same thing. Whether or not Harbaugh and Michigan catch up to OSU is unknown at this time. But Harbaugh and Michigan are way, way behind, and he is climbing uphill. You're never going to catch up and compete unless you do everything "within the rules" to get there.
EDIT: Oh, and from what I can see, an awful lot of college coaches, high school coaches, high school athletes, and college athletes, are 100% supportive of satellite camps. If this keeps on growing, there's at least a sliver of a chance the whole thing is overturned.
Don't know if there's more here on Harbaugh . . . but I come here as much as I do because a chunk of the OSU fanbase does seem obsessed with JH, and manages to post an awful lot on him.
Harbaugh's radio silence is absolutely the best form of communication right now. This is not going to hurt Michigan at all. If anything, it may push a few kids there.
I haven't read the whole thread, but wow, that's a serious red flag. The thing is, there just isn't enough information for people on the board to give much intelligent advice. But here are a couple thoughts.
First, what kind of stuff do you really need to get? If clothes and furniture, let it go. TV? Let it go. Short of your wallet, which I assume you have, anything work related, and irreplaceable personal possessions, I wouldn't go back for anything. And I'm not sure I'd have a friend go back. If she wants you to have it, she'll get it to you soon enough.
Second, if she is willing to throw food at you and go to such extreme measures to hurt and ruin you, I don't know how or why you'd go back to this relationship under any circumstance.
Thirdly, there is too much information left out. How long were you together? What brought this situation about? What exactly offended her? What patterns of anger and argument are there? What is the basis for the relationship? What attracted you to her? I'm not sure I'd go back to the relationship for any reason. But I'd strongly encourage counseling for you, to understand yourself better. At the very least, you need to avoid a situation like this in the future.
I think most people are wired to be in a permanent relationship. Given your age, I would want to sort out and think through what goes into a healthy relationship, so that you don't have this happen again.
I'm pretty skeptical that the account was real. Could have been. But I haven't seen anything definitive either way.
I'm in the same generation, and while I use a bit of social media, I am fairly inept. And I don't use twitter or snapchat. I don't know all the ins and outs of instagram, and basically avoid it.
Having said that, I don't think this is going to have a huge affect on recruiting or anything else. Well, it will be good for a few laughs among rival fan bases, but that's about it. Just my humble opinion.
Is that for real? Or someone who claimed the user name (kinda like Gareon Conley?)
If I understand Meyer correctly, it is a lot harder to Swenson an in-state prospect. The blowback from local coaches, fans, and players would be too great. Since Swenson was from Illinois, it was a different case.
Funny chart. But it seems to be missing someone . . . oh yeah. Nevermind.
FTR, loved the game. This and the MSU debacle made it a great tournament. Oh, and Michigan would have been totally obliterated by either team. Not in the same
The camp rule makes a ton of sense to me unless they are at a level you absolutely know their skill level and their growth potential. In fact, if I were Urban Meyer, I would expect anyone inside of a 200 - 300 mile radius to camp in Columbus (i.e., out to Louisville, Pittsburgh, Detroit, Grand Rapids, Indy, maybe Chicago). This is critical especially when they are at a small school or in a weak conference.
I am pretty sure we will never see eye to eye on Eric Swenson, the former Michigan commit who had his offer pulled by Harbaugh. However, he refused to camp at Michigan, even though he was repeatedly asked to do so. His "rankings" over his senior year plummeted, to the point that 247 had him listed as the No. 583 prospect in 2016. Without camping, and with drastically different rankings, I don't blame Harbaugh one bit for pulling the offer. And I don't blame Urban one bit for expecting HS athletes to compete hard, improve, and come on campus to camp, if in Ohio.
The other thing that is very screwy is the whole notion of a verbal commitment. The entire situation is created because they can't sign a LOI earlier than February. I am not smart enough to propose a better way. However. let's be honest. Until you're enrolled in school, or have a signed, binding contract (LOI), a "verbal commitment" is just a placeholder. It is the difference between being "engaged" and being "married." Either party can break off an engagement at any time. Marriage? Now you need a divorce. That's why we all wait with great anticipation for that day in February to come. Until it arrives, commitments are fluid. There's an awful long time til signing day in 2018. I fully expect for commitments to shift more and more.