Great Pittman reference. I think the difference between Pittman and Weber is I feel Pittman is often overlooked for multiple reasons, whereas Weber is been labeled as good, but not great. Pittman was, unfortunately, the victim of playing on teams with great some of OSU's most memorable players. He was the back when Troy won the Heisman. He was on the team with Teddy Ginn. You can also throw in a few other draft picks like Gonzo, Hartline, and Robiski. He also had split carries with the #2 recruit in the nation. Despite that, he still had 4.4 speed and was able to break off big runs. Weber, on the other hand, lacks the speed and doesn't have Beanie's or Clarett's power so he is being overlooked. But, to me, the disrespect comes when people are mention how McCall should start or Dobbins will take his position. McCall is probably a generous 180 when he's wet and wearing boots. Dobbins is coming off of a broken ankle. Weber averaged over 6 yards per carry with under 200 carries, an inconsistent offensive line, and coordinators making very questionable calls.
I don't think one could easily blame the coaches. Yes, they made very incompetent calls last year, but they did the previous year as well. Especially during the Michigan State game. I blame the fans for expecting every running back to be Zeke, Hyde, or Beanie. We don't need a back to make explosive plays to be a successful player.
I will agree that his biggest weakness is his inability to break every shoestring tackle. His lack of top end speed isn't much of an issue to me. Zeke made several big runs a few years ago but he has track speed. He is really a once in a lifetime kind of back. If Weber works on his balance, I can see him averaging 8+ yards a carry without that top end speed.
He had his 1,000 yard season overshadowed by the arrival of JK Dobbins and the Demario McCall's few big runs.
Actually, I would disagree ans say it would be more difficult to get 1,000 yards. We had an offense that had multiple ball carriers in him and Curtis Samuel. On top of that, we relied heavily on the qb draw. Having a balanced offense would have actually benefited him, considering he doesn't have breakaway speed
I've seen a few posts talking about Jk Dobbins taking snaps and ultimately taking the majority if snaps. I think I heard it on the Bucknuts show a few times as well.
Thanks for correcting my typo.
Sorry, had to rant. I was sick of people calling for his head after a great 1,000 yard season
You mean that play against PSU and where the guy tackles him before the ball came and wrapped up his right arm as he was bring Clark down?
No, there a few definitions of a h-back. One is the Harvin role, but Urban has also referred to the Aaron Hernandez role as an h-back. Brown was never a potential tight end, more of a potential H-back (hernandez). The use of a tight end was actually more of a new thing in Urban's offense because the players he inherited here were different from the ones he recruited at Florida. If you look at the highlights of the players, you will see that Campbell was a runnig back and McLaurin was one as well. McCall was a running back, as was Wilson. Now, I would like clarify what is meant by "true" wide receivers. I meant more of a X and Y type and less of the slot/z type. Most of our receivers are Harvins or slot receiveds
So, it is easy to point out those players as successful athletes. You can also make the point for 3-stars that were signed on our team. Devin Smith was a 3-star, as was Lee, Powell, and Pat Elflein. But, will a team full of 3 stars win a national championship? I will probably say no. Now, my point isn't "hey, I don't want Urban to recruit athletes and try to convert them to different positions." My point is that we have a team full of them. When several of the players on you team are inexperienced, raw, and still learning the position you are automatically at a disadvantage. When we think of the teams we had on the field for the past few years, we had a few guys who are relatively inexperienced at the position on the field but they provided the athletic advantage for us. When you think of things like Mike Thomas' stop and go against Virginia Tech last year, you know that comes from years and years of experience. You probably won't see something like that from any of the wide receivers on our team this year because they lack the experience and technical understanding of the position.
Secondly, I never said we don't sign true receivers or true running backs. We still have signed players at wide receiver like KJ Hill, Alex Stump, Bim Victor, and Austin Mack. But, right now, 3 of them are freshmen. A lot of the corners we had were true corners. But, how many of them ended up being tweeners or nickels? Damon Webb, Armani Reeves, EGW, Arnette? It's all about percentages. If both the starter and the backup aren't necessarily experienced at the position, odds are you will have an issue.
And, let's not get started on the whole "give Curtis Samuel" the ball topic. They literally gave him the ball in the most unproductive and uncreative ways.
I think people get defensive because they take broad criticisms as being criticisms of Urban Meyer. If you direct criticisms at an assistant coach, or a player, it is welcomed. With Buckeye fans being used to winning and dominating every single game, we get irrational when things aren't going our way. Over the past few years our sayings it from "Herman sucks and we should have hired Chad Morris" to "Fire Fickell" to "Fire Beck" to "We need Ed Warriner calling plays now " to "Fire both Warriner and Beck." It is only when we start dominating again that we get back to being reasonable
You can pick and choose seasons to make the comparison. If you look at the quality of our opponents you will see that we played only 2 ranked teams during the regular season, one of which was a Northwestern team that finished 1-7 in Big 10 games. Of course our stats would look way better than 2015. If you look at recruiting, Roby had an extensive offer list and was highly sought despite being a 3 star. Darron Lee was a Fickell offer and Mike Thomas was a Fickell signee that came with Cardale in the 2011 class because his grandmother died and he essentially shit down his recruitment process.
I'm not saying Meyer isn't a great talent evaluator. I'm not saying he isn't a great developer. But to solely give Herman full credit for the team's success would be dishonest. Braxton, Hyde, Barrett, and Elliott saved us many times when the playcalling was questionable. Secondly, we won the national championship with players who were mostly not recruited by Meyer. Most of the players there were inherited by Meyer or very close commits when Meyer signed them. I'm not discounting Meyer's ability to recruit, I'm questioning the sustainability of us having so many raw and inexperienced athletes. When you stack and compare any roster from the past 3 years, you will see a significant difference in experience minus the year where we had to convert Fragel and like 2 dl's to tackle.
Habdling talent isn't the same as recruiting and developing talent. I don't question Meyer's ability to handle talent. He took our 2011 6-7 team and led them to an undefeated season the next year. I'm also not questioning his ability to recruit and develop talent because he has taken several players who appeared to be head scratchers and turned them into household names. I do question us having so many athletes on our team. I feel like I can at least question that. We complained about Zach Smith's ability to develop talent at the WR position without much argument. If we can do that, why can't we open up the board to questioning players, coaches, and scheme? Or, what I'm doing is questioning the combination of all three.
I think the defense is much less of an issue than the offense. The what Northwestern and Wisconsin did was target our lack of experience at that nickelback position. It looked like Pittsburg Brown was back at safety again. But, the sky isn't falling. Arnette is young and should get better with time. Webb is still a converted corner and it takes time having to play in such an open field at safety. I think both will be ok.
I'm not complaining. This team has far exceeded my expectations. So, besides the Penn State loss, and our occasional playing to the level of our opponents, I have no qualms with this season. I am questioning our system and how we are fitting players into roles they don't necessarily fit at this point. To me, this is no different from us questioning why back in 2013 we had a qb draw every 3 plays or had Devin Smith running short to mid range routes every few plays. Players are best equipt for certain plays and certain schemes. In 2014, when JT went down, we crafted an offense that fit the not just Cardale but the rest of the players on offense as well.
The term h-back has been used to refer to several positions in Urban's offense. It has referred to the tight-end/receiver position (Aaron Hernandez/Jeff Heuerman/Noah Brown at some point) as well as that tricky slot position (Jeff Demps/Chris Rainey/Dontre/Curtis Samuel). It is true that McLaurin and Campbell have been working with the wide receivers early their entire careers here but they have been molded as more of a hybrid between slot and traditional. I believe it's like Z receiver or something with the hopes that they would develop into more of the X or Y types.
Idk where you are getting that. I made no claims of Urban's ability to handle talent. You must be reading one of my old posts about Brady Hoke. Now, what I did do is point out that we are over-indexing in the athlete department and less in the experience department. What I'm saying is take a nice look at our roster and see how many traditional players we have at skill positions relative to athletes at skill positions. Compare that to last year or the year before that.
The short answer is yes and no. Yes, I have the right to question the recruiting of our players. I have the right to question the coaching. I believe we can question whichever coach we seem fit. If we can question every coordinator when something goes wrong then we can question the head guy as well because he is the owner of this team.
Secondly, I see our team is doing extremely well over the past 5-6 years. I attribute a bit part of that success to Meyer and his ability to assemble the proper coaching staff and recruit many of the players we need. My post isn't simply questioning Meyer but also pointing out my observation of us overindexing in the athlete department.
I'm welcoming debate. I can also argue that while basketball and football aren't a one to one comparison, you have to look at the use of athletes and trying to play them soley at one position. It is extremely difficult and the success rate varies based on the team. Yes, Urban is great at putting players in the NFL. But, you have to ask if those players would have made it in the NFL if they played for other schools as well? When you subtract mishaps off of the field, I think many of the players would have been just as successful at other top tier schools as well. To reference Brown, Miller, and Marshall, all three players are dynamic athletes. What Braxton did last year isn't because he was coached well. He did spectacular things the one year when he was here without Meyer. He is a supreme athlete with or without the ball. Marshall as well. We are talking a bunch of top 50 athletes in the country. Somethings are natural. But, there was a reason why Marshall was undrafted. Athletics alone won't get you super far.
As a second question, why do you believe we do not have an offensive identity? If I remember correctly, we had several issues even with Herman here. Do you remember the year before the national championship? We struggled our way through several games and often questioned the wide receivers as well as why they were running Miller 20 times a game instead of giving Hyde the ball.
This seems a lot like the OSU basketball situation from last year.
If I had to sunmarize my post, I would say that Zach Smith has been dealt a hand that is hard to play. This may sound like an excuse, but in reality we have a lack of experience plaguing this wide receiver corp. I would liken it to the year Urban called our team a clownshow. The next year, we did really well and the wide receivers were the cream of the crop.
I will refer back to lack of experience. Only wide receivers that have played the position for more than three years on this this team are Mack, Victor, Stump, Clark, and Dixon. Dixon, Clark, and Stump have been plagued with injuries since they have been at OSU. Mack and Victor are both true freshmen. If you want, you can throw Corey Smith in there but he isn't a deep threat given his current situation. So, we are left with everyone else who has lined up at wide receiver but haven't been at the position for that long. Dontre, Samuel, Brown, Campbell, and McLaurin were all running backs in high school. Dontre and Samuel have even played running back here. Noah Brown started his career as an unofficial H-Back here. So, those three haven't been solely focused on this one position while here. Campbell and McLaurin, if I recall, both have had their fair share of injuries while here. It is one thing to learn in the class room, but game experience is the ultimate teacher. I believe this group will get better, I just don't expect a miracle to happen by the 5th game of the season.
Gibson is virtually unproven, but his performance at the position has been noted throughout his time here and in several camps in high school. He was actually ranked as a 5-star wide receiver and dropped to 4-stars when refused to play anything but QB in college
I'm not solely focusing on why we lost, and I'm notnworking on bad information. I'm focusing on the ones who are actually playing. Austin Mack is in his first year, Bin Victor is as well. And Stump isn't playing. So, of the players who are actually playing, if you watch their highlights and not just look at their recruiting profile, you will see that McLaurin played rb, Campbell played RB, Noah Brown played whatever position was easiest to get the ball in his hands, Dontre was an RB, Samuel was an RB. Dixon was a wide receiver but he is 5'8 and not an outside receiver in college. He is a slot receiver. Clark was virtually unknown before November of his senior year. So, that leaves us with KJ Hill as the only "experienced" true wide receiver who has played this year. But, if you factor in injuries, you have Dixon out for 2 of his 3 years here and Hill out for 1.5 of his 2. So, if you would rather me use the word "raw" to describe the players we have at wide receiver then I will use that term. Whatever you want to call them, we haven't fielded a single veteran receiver who has actually played wide receiver for more than 3 years. We have 5 true receivers on the team, 2 are freshmen and 3 of them have had injuries and/or too raw to play.