A very good discussion on a very sad topic wended its way to mention of one of my favorite books, The Tipping Point by Malcolm Gladwell. Personally, I think Gladwell is one of the finest writers publishing today, and his insights and methods of inquiry are the kinds of thinking that broaden one's horizons in a very meaningfully and enjoyable way. He will challenge your assumptions.
Fellow commenter and Gladwell fan Buckeyeneer posed the following question that was insightful enough that I felt it deserved its own Forum post:
Has 11W tipped? or is the site on the verge of tipping? Or if it did tip, when/what was the tipping point?
GREAT question. Fellow followers of Gladwell (or those who can otherwise assimilate the concept of the TP), what say you?
Just curious as to whether this question is similar asking if 11W has jumped the shark, as I've not read The Tipping Point...I mean no disrespect, but I have no frame of reference & was just curious as to what the question means.
The world is full of kings & queens who'll blind your eyes & steal your dreams - it's heaven & hell - Ronnie James Dio.
No, it is the opposite of "jumping the shark" It is basically asking if 11W has "tipped" from being a relatively obscure OSU fan blog in in a sea of blogs, to becoming a well known and/or respected community. Basically, has it moved into the public consciousness or at least the college sports loving public consciousness?
. . . at least that is my understanding. I am reading it now and only about a 1/3 of the way through.
"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes
THE Ohio State University
Hi POISON... really good question. I wondered if that might be the intent of this forum, then I saw that ANDYVANCE wrote it and I exhaled.
Here's the definition of The Tipping Point, straight from the book blurb itself:
The tipping point is that magic moment when an idea, trend, or social behavior crosses a threshold, tips, and spreads like wildfire. Just as a single sick person can start an epidemic of the flu, so too can a small but precisely targeted push cause a fashion trend, the popularity of a new product, or a drop in the crime rate. This widely acclaimed bestseller, in which Malcolm Gladwell explores and brilliantly illuminates the tipping point phenomenon, is already changing the way people throughout the world think about selling products and disseminating ideas.
Thanks for the answers, I didn't really figure Andy would ask if the site had "jumped the shark", but as I hadn't read the book, I was totally unaware of & wanted to know what it meant - so I appreciate the info!
The world is full of kings & queens who'll blind your eyes & steal your dreams - it's heaven & hell - Ronnie James Dio.
Thanks for having faith in me, you two :) Greatly appreciated!
Dude this is an awesome forum topic!
Also, my personal analysis:
We are probably somewhere near the 2nd tipping point of 11w. I wasn't here back then, but the first tipping point was probably the level-headed, thorough coverage of Tatgate, which I understand correlates with a strong uptick in members.
I think some combo of fantastic staff hires / UFM popularity / outstanding recruiting forums / price (free) caused the 2nd tipping point to happen somewhere between December - February.
I specifically joined in order to give my two cents on Tatgate-related matters, though my first comments were of the "vent" variety (go figure) following the March Madness loss to Kentucky. So it definitely had an impact for me personally.
11W has gotten incrementally larger, but I don't know if there's been a second "tip" because I don't think there's been a qualitative change in the place, other than the speed with which things turn over. The culture here still rewards good writing over juvenile "takes" written in chat-speak, and tends to come down on personal attacks (both rare commodities online generally and on sports sites in particular). If and when that ever changes, it would probably represent a sign of a tip.
The most "loud mouth, disrespect" poster on 11W.
Whenever Kerry Coombs videos start being published with the 11W logo in view, the possibility of the tipping point being approached or surpassed is very likely.
11Dub tipped when Elika killed it on Jim Rome and Ross was intellectually crushing bloggers like a boss on ESPNU. Regardless of feelings on the WWL, anytime your website is flashing on the screen its hit the mainstream. I mean, this used to be a small blog where we all got together to make Ray Small jokes and so forth...now its out of hound
If Denard Robinson isn't careful with spooning all that food into his mouth, he's going to end up lookin' like Whoopi Goldberg
Hehe, typing in the same frame of mind my friend! +1
"Leave...Your...Mark..."
I need a new "Out of Hound" t-shirt.
"Don't put syrup on shit, and tell me it's pancakes"
No matter how sh*tty the tour is, it's always tough to leave.
I was going to say the same thing. Many things have happened to put 11W on the map but it mostly started with Elika.
I will also add the fund to hire a beat writer. That was awesome!
I would say it has, having Elika hold it down in a broadcast out west, having Ross give that PSU blogger the BEENEEZ on ESPN's UNITE program, the charity work 11W does routinely, along with the crowning achievement of El Guapo - I'd say 11W has officially "arrived" so to speak.
"Leave...Your...Mark..."
Haven't seen that one. However, I did enjoy Ross whipping up on Anthony Mammel(MaizenBrew) before the Ohio State/M*chigan game.
"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.
I absolutely love The Tipping Point, and all other works by Malcolm Gladwell. He is a genius. To those who haven't read it (also, Blink and The Outliers, both by Gladwell) do yourself a favor and purchase them.
I don't know the logistics of websites, but for anyone who knows, how much bigger of a site is MGoBlog than 11W or vice versa? I'm just assuming MGoBlog is larger at this point (in terms of page views/members) but I could be wrong. For the record, I never use MGoBlog, so I'm not asking this in the sense to mock 11W. I personally like the layout of this site much better than MGo and there is far less off-topic bantering with users trying to out-wit one another.
mgoblog.com
Alexa Traffic Rank: 37,378 Traffic Rank in US: 7,173
elevenwarriors.com
Alexa Traffic Rank: 86,152 Traffic Rank in US: 15,226
You can click "Get Details" on the site and view some more stats. You'll notice a large spike in reach percentage for 11w right about when tatgate broke.
I don't know that we've tipped or that we ever really will, but I'm probably not the best person to ask because I still see this site as a 7th-grade science fair project.
In terms of relative size to MGoBlog, we're smaller, but we live on the same street:
mgoblog.com: 5,135,843 pageviews, 188,246 people in the last 30 days.
elevenwarriors.com: 3,401,053 pageviews, 135,964 people in the last 30 days.
Those numbers are courtesy of Quantcast, which tends to be low (compared to Google Analytics), but also relatively accurate since both sites opt-in to tracking by the service.
Jason, the fact that you are that close to MGoBlog in overall numbers makes me all the more impressed with not only the quality of the blog's content, but also the quality of the member/commenters.
Kudos on your operation.
Thank you. We're fans of how MGoBlog has grown into an indie juggernaut, so it's nice to be mentioned in the same breath.
Really impressive stats, Jason. Keep up the great work.
Thanks Jason. As M Man said, great job with this site. I'm sure it will only get better.
The beginning of the "tipping point" was, for sure, shortly after Urban Meyer was hired in during the final months of 2011. No doubt.
Definitely agree with you on this Josh...The Alumni in Minneapolis started buzzing about Urban being hired and it seemed like the only Blog backing up the claim was 11Warriors. When the news did break, 11Warriors became my only source for all things Buckeye.
Yes, even though I occasionally read articles here and there on this site beforehand (loved them and always impressed!), I didn't make a daily habit of it until the days right before the Meyer hiring. It did not take long before this was my one-stop exclusive Buckeye resource where I didn't have to Google "Ohio State Football", or "Urban Meyer Recruiting", just head straight to 11W.
I think after maybe a year of excessive obsessive lurking, I finally officially joined right around the birth of the point system.
Considering I do VERY LITTLE commenting on anything on the internet at all, the fact that I earned "voting rights" on this site... just reflects the magnitude of high regards and praise I can only have for the site itself, the excellent staff, and the awesome community made up of diverse intellegent well-rounded respectful forum members from all different backrounds and walk-of-life.
BammBamm is my dog, Riley is my 4 yr old daughter, and THE Ohio state Buckeyes complete the three most sacred loves I cherish
Eleven Warriors is set up way better than mgoblog... EW has way more competition in terms of where Buckeye fans choose to get there fix...a major newspaper in the city, as well as multiple local tv stations that cover the team...all this before you even start taking about other sites.
EW, is the best source, but it's going to take more time for fans to realize that even with so much coverage there is a better place/way to get Buckeye info: EW
D. Anthony
I don't know how many times I've gotten pertinent informaton on 11W 'DAYS' before I saw it on 10 TV or the Dispatch. Literally DAYS! As far as I'm concerned, 11W is the most respected Buckeye news source in the country.
"Get him a body bag, Yeah!"
Similarly, I'm listening to WBNS-FM in the car, and Bishop & Rothman are discussing things we've hashed out here several days ago.
I realized that 11W was for real when I would see it quoted on other forum sites and given as a reference on ESPN. I think it has reached it's tipping point.
This question interests me because it brings up another question. For 11W to truly tip it will need a current mainstream entity (like Sportscenter or Mike and Mike) to poach it for news / analysis. I enjoy Tim May, but I don't subscribe to the Dispatch. Why? I have 11W and Tim May is no Ross Fulton.
If or when major media outlets, like ESPN radio or SI, find a way to produce niche specific content on a large scale (which they currently do via blogroll), a place like 11W could get huge.
When ESPN producers recognize a 90 second hit with Ross on College Football Scoreboard > a whole fall of Mark May + Dr. Lou the Tip will have happened.
I also love how as a new user reading the Our Story link so clearly defines what 11W was, is, and wants to be. If 11W wanted to Tip, it would have been sold out already to BR, Bloguin (props to Awful Announcing), or another platform.
I don't think its tipped but I think it is close. You just keep doing the right things and success and prestige and everything else will come.
While I will applaud the day, if and when it come that 11W tips, a small piece of me will be worried that it will lose its soul. Not due to those here now or the staff in place. Much like the band that you love until everyone else loves them, I hope that a large influx of people who don't get our culture here will ruin it. Ever gone to a concert and been surround by people of an entirely different demographic set? I am getting ahead of myself but I guess it is up to us to be welcoming but also put those on notice that would come here to troll, flame, or Be a Jerk, that it won't be tolerated. After spending a couple of years on other sports message boards this place feels like an oasis in the desert.
"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes
THE Ohio State University
Love this site, think the tipping point has yet to be reached.
Just the tip, sorry it had to be said.
vacuuming sucks
ow, your on my hair!
OSU has been missed a great free blog based community and eleven warriors has filled that roll. With the largest fanbase in the country and no real competition I doubt that 11W is done. I am scared for the staff when it does get that big though, it'll be a nuthouse.
I agree with the multiple "Tipping Point" theory. At least 3 major components come into play.
1. 11W's staff and site provides the information we want second to none.(Thank you)
2. The vast majority of the posts on this site especially from you seasoned regulars(you know who your are) are well thought out and add tremendous insight and entertainment.
3. Passion for The Ohio State University... An ever flowing source of fuel that turns the wheel.
...I have a guess on what might be another "Tipping Point" for 11W in the near future, but I'll gladly sit back and enjoy this ride with the rest of you.
~Naples Buckeye - "May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't." - General George S. Patton, Jr.
I would say I remember a lot of specific shifts or tips if you will:
1) bringing on other writers than just Jason, Chris, and Corey - Luke and Johnny coming along changed things up big time. And I remember I hated it at first as I fear change, but it seems to have worked out ok. They brought a new perspective, internet memes and allegories/literary illusions that I didn't always get. This then lead to hiring more and more writers.
2) Tatgate happened which created an influx of members. This changed a lot around here too because suddenly people argued in the comments, there were new people on here everyday and it wasn't just 25-40 yr old male alumni, it was high schoolers and retirees and women etc.
3) Hiring Kyle - this was separate from the other hires because this meant daily report style posts, access to the team, the coaches, the players, the AD, a presence at events, etc.
4) helmet stickers - suddenly people started actually using the forum and blogs. It spurred so many topics and discussions of its own.
“Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect.” - Woody
5) When BUCKSFAN changed his icon :)
~Naples Buckeye - "May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't." - General George S. Patton, Jr.
I think a lot of people said "I love this site", after that thread.
"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.
I take back everything in my earlier post Buckguyfan1, tipping point confirmed.
My life was merely prelude until the moment that Bucksfan changed his icon.
"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes
THE Ohio State University
Yes, I find myself going back to that Forum from time to time... It has powers that can cure.
~Naples Buckeye - "May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't." - General George S. Patton, Jr.
When up-vote, down-vote was instituted.GO BUCKS!
I wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then.
i think reporting the urban meyer hire weeks in advance started things rolling