While the voting system does seem to be doing a good job of killing trolls and keeping comments on-topic and well reasoned, there have been a few cases recently where downvotes have been used in less than ideal ways.
For instance, while I do realize a few of this user's subsequent comments in this thread crossed the line, I am struggling to figure out how this comment netted 19 (at the time of this writing) downvotes. It's one person stating their opinion. Sure it may not be an opinion that many of you agree with, but it's a valid opinion, nonetheless and it didn't violate any of this site's commenting policies.
I hated doing this, because I saw a lot of great readers in the batch, but everyone that downvoted that comment is now lighter some helmet stickers. We've done it for other needless downvotes and will debit stickers to others in the future for similar violations.
For this system to truly work, it's incumbent on all of us to behave responsibly and to be judicious with downvotes. As I said when I introduced the system, please try to upvote more than you downvote and don't downvote a comment just because you disagree with it.
MGoBlog has a similar voting system and during the Rodriguez era, a sort of site hivemind evolved that banished anyone for saying anything remotely negative about Rodriguez. In hindsight, that was pretty dumb and I would love to avoid a hivemind like that developing at 11W. We want diverse opinions and robust discussions and part of that is having the maturity to avoid downvoting comments that you disagree with.
If it helps, let me give you some examples:
"Jim Tressel was a terrible coach and Ohio State should never have hired the man." — On the surface, this looks like a differing opinion, but in reality, it's a pretty dumb comment for anyone that has things like eyeballs or basic math skills. Downvote away.
"Jim Tressel's offenses were frustrating to the point of not being able to watch." — Just an opinion you may not agree with. No downvotes needed.
"Terrelle Pryor did more harm than good at Ohio State." — Again, a differing opinion that you may not agree with. No downvotes needed.
I know that even the best of these systems will not be perfect. For instance, here's a top comment on a Reddit thread (karma = helmet stickers on Reddit):
As you can see, even top, harmless and relatively funny comments routinely earn a up/downvote ratio along the lines of 6:1 (in this case 121:20). The point is, some downvotes are going to happen. We'll do our best to monitor and stop abuses, but we're going to need the help of the 11W community to a) vote judiciously and b) develop thick skin when knuckleheads downvote one of your comments.
Finally, starting today, we have upped the threshold to vote to 100 helmet stickers. I hope this helps reduce some of the downvote problems we're having, but if not, we'll up it again in the future.
Thanks for taking the time to read this and I'd love to hear any feedback you have.
On the comment that received the 19 downvotes, in my mind, it was probably due to the fact that it wasn't a necessary comment. If that is all you have to say, then best to say nothing. Which leads to my next item. There are some posters that never stop. It's getting tough to read these same few folks that endlessly post. They did not feel a need to do this until after the stickers started. Maybe a daily limit on stickers allowed per day? Good lord on some days some of these folks can get a ton of them. Just a thought and if these guidelines already exist, sorry for the ramble.
That's fair, but I still think it was a comment reflecting his/her lack of excitement for Pryor's pro career, which is more than valid.
Maybe the answer to the noise problem is to no longer award stickers for each comment/blog post/forum topic created, so voting is the only way to gain stickers?
YES - That we can upvote forum and blog topics, let them earn whatever stickers they deserve through the system rather than an automatic amount of stickers just for posting...
Thank you for addressing the hive mind mentality. 11W is fantastic for the individuals that make it up, differing opinions and all.
EXACTLY, the differing opinions and the discussions that result are what makes this place so great. This is one site where you could always come and disagree, but actually have some nice discussions. This place is the rare exception where you can have an opinion of your own and people not call you an idiot or something else condescending.
idiot.
j/k. If I wanted to try to insult you, I would have tried to use something much more condescending. I have no beef with you, you just left it out there. But to be clear, I would have beef with you, or pork, or chicken, or some other meat (or tofu if you wanted something lighter).
I like this idea...except that it would now require 100 upvotes to be able to vote yourself. Seems excessive.
Maybe the most of the problem with the excessive downvotes is coming from users with less than 100 helmet stickers?
-The Aristocrats!
Agreed.
The comment was on topic, and was posed in an opposite view as the thread bc Redstorm didn't think we should care...considering the person in that thread was a BIG reason why OSU isn't playing in a bowl game (not to mention...it was about TP's PRO career and MANY here seem to think he's just GREAT now). Unfortunate to me that people who LOVE OSU can't have a difference of opinion on someone who caused major trouble OFF the field (despite how "petty" some feel the violations were at the time). No one's contesting TP's on the field production (expect against Purdue '09 and Wiscy '10).
As to fixing the sticker thing...good luck Jason...you can't change the way people choose to act/vote. I wish you all the best of luck with figuring that one out sir....
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."
"I love football. I think it is most wonderful game in world and I despise to lose."
Woody Hayes 1913 - 1987
Not sure why the players keep taking the blame for us not being able to go bowling this season... Sure they made a mistake, just like any other young kid would do... but all Tressel had to do was report it, and He would still have his job, OSU would be bowl eligible and those players would have still been suspended. Although the players were the one to make the mistake, JT lying/covering it up is what cost us.
Between Tressel and the shenanigans that went on after we were being investigated, those are the reasons we are not bowl eligible this season.
^This. That's what it really comes down to, ultimately, based on the facts as we know them.
Class of 2010.
Get rid of the downvote altogether, and only allow upvotes. Many, many websites do this.
I don't think we need a downvote to figure out if someone is a troll or not. Jason and the rest of the people that run this site are smarter than that.
"Here officer, hold my beer while I find my license."
Downvotes are here to stay. Prior to implementing them, we had a team of mods that were constantly working to delete excessive comments, warn people for being offensive and other things. They no longer need to do that.
The only site I know of that has the notion of upvotes but not downvotes is Facebook. And Facebook is dumb.
I agree that everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion - but not all opinions are necessarily valid or good opinions. It would seem to me that site members should be free to vote up or down on opinions they agree/disagree with - and to penalize them for downvoting certain things seems a touch Orwellian. If you don't want people to 'downvote' or 'upvote' however they want to - then the best option might be just to bag the whole thing.
This goes back to the basic disagreement/misunderstanding over the purpose of the helment stickers/voting in the first place... If the intent was, as I understand it, to police the "trolls," then downvoting someone you disagree with simply because you disagree is not in the "spirit" of the system. Downvotes should be used as a "break in case of idiot" solution only.
If, on the other hand, the system was used in the spirit of Facebook where we want to give gratification or amplification of the opinions we like - what some might call an echo chamber - then you click thumbs up or down depending on how the comment strikes your fancy, regardless of its merits.
I think that's the basic problem with this discussion in general - some folks feel the voting system should be used only to punish those who misbehave, and conversely to reward those who say something funny, insightful, interesting, or otherwise noteworthy. Others think the system should be used as a broader feedback mechanism for encouraging or discouraging a particular school of thought or line of reasoning in general, which it seems is what the site's masterminds are actually trying to avoid.
Understood - But sometimes it is difficult to differentiate between a troll and the garden variety stupid comment. Seems like simply deleting obvious troll comments might be easier than waiting for their down votes to pile up.
Exactly.
Who determines what is a "valid" or "good" opinion, Rooster? If it is an opinion different from your own? Is that a bad opinion?
"Here officer, hold my beer while I find my license."
Why of course, haven't you heard? ;)
Completely agree with you Rooster!
If monitoring for abusive behavior is Orwellian, then welcome to East Germany. :)
Love the site and appreciate the work the entire staff. I ignorantly thought that the up/down vote was a agree/disagree function. I have seen that option on other sites, and erroneously thought that was the case here. It is absolutely my fault for not knowing this. I take issue with the downvote being labeled "abusive". Some people don't want to enter into a pissing contest every time they disagree with someone, which is the case with me. I will follow the rules and continue to appreciate the best Buckeye site on the planet.
Jason - surely you're not suggesting that down voting an opinion you disagree with is abusive behavior?
Agreed. I'd even add that if they had said, "I don't know why I should care about this guy after he screwed over the university", it's actually a more *negative* comment, but I would consider it more valid and not worthy of downvotes. Just saying "why should I care" doesn't seem to add to the conversation.
Still, giving people more of a benefit of the doubt is a fine system, don't have a problem with that.
That is where each comment is looked at according to his/her mindset or point of view at the time. I see what you are saying. The comment was probably viewed by some that he didn't care about the topic. Many times comments are taken the wrong way but what can you do?
There are pros and cons either way with comments or votes for stickers. Tough decisions like that are why you make the big bucks, right Jason?
I really hope everyone takes the time to read this.
^ This should be required reading for anyone joining the site.
or maybe a test should be administered to show retention of the subject matter?
-The Aristocrats!
Jason, the hive-mind is not a good thing. However, what you may or may not have seen was what else was posted on that same thread...Calling people idiots, telling them they can't read, or need to go back to school because they don't agree with you is also not a cool thing to do. By having done so, there may have been some downvote anger that was spread to comments that did not necessarily deserve it...
The world is full of kings & queens who'll blind your eyes & steal your dreams - it's heaven & hell - Ronnie James Dio.
Yeah, I tried to point that out:
I know it's difficult, but each comment should be voted on its merits, not in response to past or subsequent comments that do qualify for downvotes.
Fair enough, and you are right. Each comment based on it's own merit is the way it ought to be. Unfortunately that day, some of the following comments got pretty inflammatory & I believe there was some misplaced anger then sent to all comments from said poster. Shouldn't happen though...
The world is full of kings & queens who'll blind your eyes & steal your dreams - it's heaven & hell - Ronnie James Dio.
All good. We're all human.
Or are we dancer?
Taquitos.
bwhahahaha. well done sir, feel free to insert any clever music lyrics into these forums.
~Because we couldn't go for three~
If we average 11W fans were able to vote on you Jason, I bet that stalker would down vote you for posting this.
"Here officer, hold my beer while I find my license."
I agree with POISON, this is what happened to me. I admit that, while I didn't comment myself, I let the downvotes flow freely because of the anger I felt for the comments made in that thread.
I would like to apologize for letting that happen, and I promise that I will not let it happen again.
Point-in-case of this thread, not sure why you got downvoted, so here is an upvote...
Edit: sorry, I was reading from the top and now I see what Adamant73 did.
Thank you.
The world is full of kings & queens who'll blind your eyes & steal your dreams - it's heaven & hell - Ronnie James Dio.
what did I do?
Yup Same happened to me. One thing you will notice though is when the same man apologized there were many of us that gave upvotes in that forum. At that point I had wished I was able to negate my downvote by giving an upvote to reverse it. I feel that it would be nice if you had voted in one way, and someone explained themselves, that you could reverse your vote. Just a suggestion.
Edit: That would also fix the pesky "fat finger down vote" on the smartphone.
That comment seemed inflamatory to the OP. The OP posted a topic which many obviously found relevant and worth talking about. The response
strikes as rude to the original poster. If you don't care, why post? Just seemed unnecessary and overly negative. Imagine this forum like a conversation over beers or the liquid refreshment of your choice. If someone in the group brought up a topic and the people in the group begin having a discussion, how would the group react to the guy who breaks into the conversation merely to say "Am I the only one who doesn't care?"
Subjectivity in up/downvoting will never go away.
I think what happens is that the downvotes/upvotes grow exponentially. For example, if a comment has 10 upvotes, people are more likely to pay special attention to it and approach it in a favorable light - thus that comment is more likely to get another upvote. I think the same happens with downvotes. If 10 people have downvoted a comment people think "this comment must really suck" and then read it with that in mind. Then they downvote. Maybe the solution is to hide whether a comment has been upvoted or downvoted?
Jason, I was under the impression that the reason for the helmet stickers was to help create discussions. It seems to have worked. Changing the system and only getting a sticker if your comment has been upvoted is defeating the purpose. I do agree that the multiple forum threads about the same thing, i.e. the Clowney decapitation, is a little frustrating. I'm sure what ever compromise you come up with will be fine.
Yeah, I get that side of the argument as well. It certainly has helped with commenting and discussion. We just want to avoid people posting needless comments just to get a sticker.
The most needless comments are the ones with only one word. ie: "this", "word". OK to agree but try to post a sentence or two after that. If you don't have anything to add just upvote the poster.
"It's just another case of there you are". ~ Doc (1918-2012)
This^^^^^^^^^^^
Ok sorry, it was like he was daring me to do it. Won't happen again
Edit: Upvote for your point RBUCK !
WORD^^^^^^^^^^ I couldn't resist. It was a double dog dare!!! Legitimate point RBUCK.
An angry fan...rooting for an angry team...led by angry coaches
SO MUCH THIS ^^^^^
How bout three words?
^^^^^What he said....sheeple we are. LOL.
"Here officer, hold my beer while I find my license."
NAILED IT!!^^^^^^^^^^^
An angry fan...rooting for an angry team...led by angry coaches
I do say 'word' on occasion. I like to let folks know that they done good & that I concur with them. Sometimes it'll be a 'WORD' which like saying I really think you done good there. Sometimes it's a rush thing but I still want to say - 'that's right good sir'. Seems better than an anonymous upvote, but who knows...
The only comments I actually see as truly useless is the name calling stuff. I really dislike when it comes to saying folks are idiots, stupid, moron, etc...Everything else is just comments that either get read or don't.
The world is full of kings & queens who'll blind your eyes & steal your dreams - it's heaven & hell - Ronnie James Dio.
What if we don't have enough stickers to just upvote the poster? Will a "this" or "word" do the job then? I'd like to show the poster that I agree or that they made a good point somehow.
The sticker system, I think, does limit some of the clutter in the comments section. I think users are less inclined to make redundant posts because they can voice their opinions by promoting a comment that they agree with.
It also allows me to scan the comments section when I don't have time to read through them all. I generally read all of the comments that have been voted on several times (whether up or down).
That is a great point.
I believe I was of the opinion that this place didn't need a voting system, and I will stand by that belief. However, since it is here, I will use it when I feel necessary. It doesn't need to be the focus of the commenters existence here. Have a wonderful day everyone.
vacuuming sucks
You seem to be channeling the Dalai Lama my friend.
He usually does. Maestro, I have always believed you are very reasonable and an ideal poster. As always, a thoughtful post. Hope you have a wonderful day as well.
Thanks for the kind words.
I have been a moderator on message boards before and am happy NOT to be one here. A thankless job to be sure. That being said this is a pretty special place that seems to need less moderating than most on the internet. Or perhaps it's just because I am not having to moderate that it seems more idyllic. Either way it's a great place to get away from real life for a while.
vacuuming sucks
Well said - I probably get away from real life for a while way more than I should ;)
The world is full of kings & queens who'll blind your eyes & steal your dreams - it's heaven & hell - Ronnie James Dio.
I wanna be like Maestro. He is the standard by which all others on this site are judged, IMO. And he has a frickin great sense of humor!
"Here officer, hold my beer while I find my license."
Wow, thanks a lot Dude. Very kind of you to say.
vacuuming sucks
It's probably like everything else in the world...90% of the problems are caused by 10% of the people. To me, it looks like most use the system well, which makes it work. I like that the site mods are keeping an eye out for abuse, yet I hate that they have to babysit in a way.
Edit... I like raising the criteria to 100 votes.
I agree with everything you said, even though I lost my voting powers because of the raised criteria.
Yeah, I don't like losing my voting privileges, but the way people are downvoting is pretty disappointing. I'll gladly earn my way back to voting status if it means the voting system improves.
I concur. With everything. Wouldn't mind 15 more.
I think this is a great comment and oh so true. It seems like the outliers are always the loudest.
I too am bummed that my voting privledges are no longer but I guess it gives me a good reason to comment more. Especially since I visit this site everyday and don't comment much.
I have thrown around differing opinions from time to time and have received downvotes but I dont let it bother me too much. When it comes down to it I could really care less about the upvotes and downvotes, I just want to chat with other Buckeye fans.
"if irony were made of strawberries, we' d all be drinking a lot of smoothies right now."
I'm with you there. I tend to not really care much about upvotes or downvotes as most things that I say probably aren't worth either. If someone agrees/likes it, good for them; if they don't, oh well, I'll live. But I will sometimes do a head scratcher on comments that in no way can be construed as negative, whether they are from me or another poster, and get a downvote...at least most posters are good enough to realize the unnecessary downvote and will upvote. So for the most part, the community does a good job at policing itself...which gives me more reason to really not care most of the time.
Love the 100 vote rule (although feel bad for those that might have been close.) Makes it almost impossible for a troll to come in and do damage. I could understand the change from the current sticker awards for posting but I've always looked at it as a reward for weighing in and not sitting on the sidelines (I sat on the sidelines for a long time before I acutally started commenting.)
Finally, I really appreciate all the writers and the staff. You are the professionals here and you do a damn good job. I dont know where you're going with this thing in 2013 but I cant wait to see.
242 days until kickoff... At the end of the day the only thing that really matters.
Nothing like dancing on the field in 02...
Thank you. And I tend to agree about stickers being a reward for joining the conversation.
I just realized that the 11W staff has succesfully turned us into a bunch of kindergardners. I'm not saying this as a knock against the staff, I'm just hoping maybe the staff can find a way to succesfully get us nap time at work? That would make this the ultimate blog.
OOWW! Thanks for the love. I am at 45 stickers so just missed being part of the 'voting fraternity' at 11W. Poor me! hahaha
Please don't mistake this as a shameless effort to earn a sticker or two. I merely love the site and the incredible amount of information that can be gleened here on a daily basis. Go Bucks!
Love this site, love that the people who own/write/contribute to the site voice concerns when they see something wrong with the site (ie. hivemind), just don't see this type of proactive involvment usually on blog sites, just refereshing. Keep up the good work guys!
I especially liked the part using jim tressel as an example of what way to vote. Just a littl e sad that i just lost my voting privileges.
Oh well, can't really complain about something that is free.
Here is an upvote to get you closer.
Yeah..I too cannot vote any more. I read more than I post, so that just the way that it goes.
You will get there faster than you think. As stu did above, here is an upvote!
And...an upvote for upvoting!
Thanks guys. I also just remembered that urban meyer is our coach and michigan still sucks so that cheered me upna little too.
In my humble opinion, anytime someone says, "Michigan still sucks," it's always worth an upvote from me, no matter how redundant. I never get tired of hearing it "Gumtape". <-----can you give us the info on your screenname?
Gumtape? LOL. That's funny right there.
"Here officer, hold my beer while I find my license."
Thanks a bunch!
I was the same way for about a year, but the voting system has encouraged me to participate more. There are some really good commenters on here, and I'm just trying to add to it. I have a feeling you'll get back to voting in no time.
I'm in the same boat. I come here multiple times a day to read and don't feel the urge to comment much. I usually just read other comments and upvoted when I agreed. I used it as a kind of "like" button.
I too lost voting privledge. Wish I would have read this earlier to take advantage of the free love. I like free love.
I don't downvote if I don't agree with someone. I downvote them for being vicious/malicious/instigating/douchebaggy.
"Sherman ran an option play right through the south" - Greatest.Civil.War.Analogy.Ever
It's not really that hard to get to 100, I've only been here less than a year or so and I have 300+(my member anniversary is Jan 7th!). Just be involved in the site and bring good conversation, you'll be able to vote in no time.
Sad to say that I've been here less than a year and I have something like 2500. When I post my goal is just to be informative, make topics that have information, and basically just share what I know with my fellow fans and students.
Check out this thread. It's a downvote black hole. Obviously, there are a LOT of people who are very, very upset that ESPN showed a 15 second advertisement for a crappy remake of a 1970's horror film during a bowl game, and they don't know how to explain to their children that movies are make-believe. If you offered a dissenting opinion on this topic, you got downvoted to kingdom come.
I refrained from commenting simply because the thread followers established that if you disagree, then you were going to pay for it. By definition, that makes it a bad forum topic.
oh man, nailed it. i avoided that thread like a carton of spoiled milk as well because i had differing opinions than the poster, but after seeing what would happen if I tried to explain that the TV spot was bought and espn/abc/disney made a good amount of money by allowing them to play that commercial, i decided to just keep my mouth shut. oh and i work in TV, so i know how these things work. the station may not totally agree with the commercial, but if the spot was sold and it doesnt violate any FCC crap, its going to run.
What's been killing me lately is when people downvote posters like Hail of MMan just because they are AACC fans. It doesn't matter whether the posts are well thought out or not (which they usually are); some people just see the winged helmets and immediately downvote.
Is there any way to limit the amount of times someone can downvote a person in a day? Maybe if you could only downvote 5 times a day people will calm down.
"Anything easy ain't worth a damn." - Wayne Woodrow Hayes
I've noticed people who seem to get downvoted every comment, which means to me that there is another vindictive poster out there who follows a guy downvoting every comment of his. Just yesterday I noticed Buck.I.8 being needlessly downvoted.
I would like to see the limit on downvotes one may use daily. I think Bucknuts does something similar.
I don't like seeing people complain in a forum for receiving a downvote or for posters saying they are upvoting a gentleman to cancel out a downvote he received. IMO that is just a way for a poster to try and get some upvotes. If you disagree with someone getting a downvote and want to cancel it out with your upvote, just give them an upvote. No need to shine the spotlight on yourself and nominate yourself for Humanitarian of the Year or anything.
Also, I don't know who it was but there was a guy that commented in Alex's "Eli Apple name change" thread who was deservingly downvoted, but came out later in the thread and admitted he messed up and he took his lumps. The comment admitting he messed up received more up-votes than his original vote received downvotes. It was just a perfectly handled situation by the 11w community and the individual who was being downvoted.
Not sure when but one of the downvoting trolls fessed up on a thread. Everything he posted was instantly on a sprial down (the system working for the right reasons.) Lesson is do what you feel is right. Karma is biatch. Sooner or later those that feel the need to incessently give away negatively will get what they deserve.
And I am the aforementioned moron.
Nothing like dancing on the field in 02...
I don't remember that, and I'm on here a lot, so consider your record expunged. An upvote for you, sir.
If you guys notice something, shoot us a note.
Good god, I'm about sick of seeing all this shit about up/down voting!! Who gives a rats ass.!! Why don't you just get rid of the voting all together that way this website can get back to what it was intended for rather than people worrying about up/down vote??!!
I would say that because it is here, we should make it the best we can.
This may be the most active forum ever to not have a single comment get down voted... It would appear that the message is getting through (at least in this forum). Tis the season for up voting
Nope, someone gave Buckeyeshop a downvote. Almosttttt.
Bummer, spoke too soon. I worried that Your post right above mine might break the streak too
Haha no doubt, I'll get hit by a DV troll. But thank god this is the internet and meaningless, otherwise I'm not sure what I'd do w/ myself everytime i get a DV.
Wow first time I've seen that happen... simultaneously as I was giving you an upvote someone gave you a downvote lol.
Well thank you!! It seems to me, that some people "get off" to downvoting and putting others down.
This is what I mean. I upvote someone for agreeing with them and I get downvoted? If you downvoted me, please come out and explain why. Maybe i'm confused with this whole voting thing.
You were down voted by a guy who came through and down voted the whole thread. Nothing personal. See below, he's been dealt with by the staff
I agree with what you are saying about downvoting. If you down vote me( and it is because I have obviously put my foot into my mouth), then please explain the reason for the downvote. I think if you had to do that there would be a whole lot less downvoting.
Dang! The Helmet Sticker voting got uped to 100...I just got to 50 a week ago! lol
I feel your pain. I was getting closer and closer to that 50 mark.
Writer at http://www.landgrantholyland.com
In time you will get there......we all will
All in all, I do not believe this voting system has enhanced the experience, here: anybody can click up or down. Reacting via clicking takes much less thought than crafting a well-worded observation, opinion or reply.
I respectfully disagree. You'll notice a lot of sites have implemented similar systems, as have the top commenting platforms like Disqus, etc.
It's a great feedback system that, in theory, rewards good commenters and punishes bad commenters.
Theory and practice are different things. What it does is rewards people who display opinions, humor, and world-views similar to the majority on the site. Those who think otherwise are pushed out. What do you think has caused reddit's shift over the past 3-4 years? Their upvote/downvote system is the reason for the hivemind. It's why r/politics is almost entirely liberal, r/atheism is a default sub, and r/funny is almost purely memes. I would hate for 11W to go that way where differing opinions are pushed out. Where disagreeing with someone (especially a staff member I like I found out) can make it so you lose privliges on the site.
There was no need for the system. We weren't overrun with trolls. Discussion was fine. But that is just my opinions, and for it I'll certainly lose more helmet stickers.
Cause I couldn't go for three
r/funny has nearly 3 million subscribers. r/politics has 2.3 million. Whenever you attain that kind of mass, it's going to be harder and harder to keep the hivemind at bay. We're much, much smaller, and we should be able to pull it off. If we ever get to the point where we have 3 million members, we'll consider something else.
I'm not sure what r/atheism being a default sub has to do with voting unless I missed something. I thought that was just a decision the founders made early on and it stuck.
Reddit is doing just fine, it seems.
Finally, there absolutely was a need for the system. As I mentioned in a previous comment, prior to voting, we had a team of mods that were constantly working to edit comments, warn people for being offensive and the like. They no longer need to and better yet, there's no personal animosity towards mods for taking corrective action.
You may not remember the guy that came on here and said he wanted to have sex with little girls, or the commenter that essentially called the girl involved with Hicks and McCoy in San Antonio a slut, or the person that referred to David Stern saying "it's not just because he's a jew" or the insane arguments that would erupt all of the time, but they're largely (not fully) neutralized. Voting is the reason.
I understand you have an experience that may color your opinion of the system, but it's here to stay, so hopefully you can learn to live within it. Also, I'm glad to see you were able to voice your opinion without losing helmet stickers as you implied.
I think downvotes would be used much less if they were no longer anonymous. Any way to make that happen?
It's a possibility, but my worry is that that will lead to more retribution. Reddit does it anonymously, as does Disqus, so I think there's value in keeping it anonymous.
Saying that, if at any time you feel that someone is vendetta-downvoting, shoot me a note.
i do gotta say this is pretty whack. sorry i downvoted one guy. when im normally upvoting anyways
ive been on here over a year now with a username read every day for at least six months prior. and that deduction seems pretty outrageous to me
Sorry, it was across the board and the same for everyone. Sometimes we need to send a message. We've done it to others in the past and will do it to others in the future for abusing the system.
Meh I guess but now im at like 20? I guess I dont care that much, but I also believe I had the right to downvote the guy cus he was kind of asking for it. If he didn't care, why did he click on the topic. Sounded like he cared. Aka my reason for the downvote.
How about agree or disagree instead of the current system? I too was punished for downvoting that particular thread to simply show my displeasure for the overall argument that ensued. I figured it was better than engaging in a pissing match with a person i believed was very wrong. The 'message" sent to me is that never downvote again.
Yeah I was deducted 50 or so helmet stickers. If I ever get it back. I prob wont ever downvote again. B/c ill be back in time out. And the messed up thing is im always on 11w on my phone, and the voting system never works, but the one time it does I downvoted this comment lol. Oh well my luck
Oh well not going to lose sleep over helmet stickers
Here's something that is off topic but also on topic....while using a tablet or phone, it is easy to downvote on accident...I have these porky little fingers & downvote on accident on occasion...If this could be worked on, it would be great for fat digited, phone using folks like me.
That said, I have loved this site from day one...votes or no votes, I like the interaction, I like the debates, I like the community nature. Not sure is voting has enhanced it or not, but I'm sure I would be here every day with or without a voting system.
The world is full of kings & queens who'll blind your eyes & steal your dreams - it's heaven & hell - Ronnie James Dio.
maybe there needs to be an 'Are you sure you want to downvote this post?' grey box that pops up if you're downvoting?? I have done this on my iPhone a few times, but i generally try to go to a few other posts to upvote a few times to make up for it.
-The Aristocrats!
Couldn't the solution to the "fat fingers" problem be as simple as separating the upvote and downvote buttons so that they on opposite sides of the comment header instead of right next to each other?
That's what I was thinking...it's not a huge deal, but I hate it when I make the mistake of downvoting due to
an all night drinking binge that has left to blind to vote properlyfat fingers.The world is full of kings & queens who'll blind your eyes & steal your dreams - it's heaven & hell - Ronnie James Dio.
That could help. I'm normally on my phone when i'm on this site anyway and I'm too lazy to zoom in on the buttons.
-The Aristocrats!
Our new design should address this, but we're not worried about the accidental downvote. That's going to happen. We're worried abuse of the system, whether it's someone downvoting every comment in a thread or people downvoting every comment from someone else, regarldess of whether the comment deserved to be downvoted.
Unfortunately, I think a hivemind has been developed since the Purdue game at least, that is when opinions really started to clash (I was part of this) and downvoting became completely one-sided. It may not have gotten worse since then but it shows there is one.
I think no stickers for ordinary comments is a good idea. I also think you should lower the threshold for when a comment fades from downvotes. I think when people see a comment has been dimmed they will have a greater chance of just downvoting too without even really considering its content.
Sorry to change the subject fellow 11W's, but can somebody fill me in as to whether or not there was a change in the requirements to be able to vote? I haven't been on in a few weeks, but I've noticed that I can see how many +'s a comment has received, but I cannot vote on it? Any help? Thanks!!
Remember that in the end you will be judged not by what you believed, planned or dreamed; but, by what you did.
In this very forum topic that you're commenting on, I mentioned that we bumped the threshold to vote up to 100 stickers. :)
Can we have a staff member do a check on the serial downvotes in this very thread? Either we all have secret admirers or someone's a little butthurt about something? Looks like one person downvoted almost everyone
I was wondering the same thing... Oh, well..
buck-I.8,
You're a vet-- any idea why I can't vote anymore? I think I have like 60+ helmet stickers or so.. Thought the voting minimum was like 50?
Thanks in advance!
Remember that in the end you will be judged not by what you believed, planned or dreamed; but, by what you did.
It looks like the system was changed to 100 stickers
Thanks Brother!
Remember that in the end you will be judged not by what you believed, planned or dreamed; but, by what you did.
Gave you two to get you on your way, man
Yeah there weren't any downvotes at all and now in the last 2 minutes nearly everyone has one...just shows what at least one person thinks of this whole discussion and the voting system.
Handled. See below.
Some people just want to watch the world burn.
Despite the topic of this thread, one user went through and downvoted every single comment. That user no longer has the ability to vote.
We typically don't name offenders here, but congratulations, Adamant73, you're the worst person on this site today.
Man - I loved The Dark Knight!
The world is full of kings & queens who'll blind your eyes & steal your dreams - it's heaven & hell - Ronnie James Dio.
Maybe there should be a wall of shame or something.
-The Aristocrats!
For some reason I find this type of public shaming to be kind of hilarious. Maybe it's because he didn't do something truly terrible...just downvoted people.
I like the idea of a Wall of Shame. Someone also mentioned being able to see who downvotes you. I think that'd really cut down on some people who like to "hide"
Writer at http://www.landgrantholyland.com
I like the idea of being able to see your accuser, just like in court. Not so big about a "Wall of Shame" though. Do we really need something like that? Just block them from the website if they are trolling frequently, I say.
Upvote for you though, Ian.
"Here officer, hold my beer while I find my license."
Love the idea. I'd love a "get a warning" then if you do more crap like that again you are put on the helmet sticker wall of shame publically.
I think we all got long-conned. He did after all start the topic "what is a troll?"
http://www.elevenwarriors.com/forum/football/2012/10/what-is-a-troll
EDIT: Derp/didn't read kareem's post below. Didn't mean to steal your thunder man!
“The teams that don’t respect their coaches and don’t trust their coaches are the teams that go .500"
~Zach Boren
Well played Adamant73..........
An angry fan...rooting for an angry team...led by angry coaches
BUSTED! I would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for that sneaky Jason!
was it worth it?
~Because we couldn't go for three~
What's the point?
I think this is so incredibly comical that I got some of you guys so worked up about website helmet stickers that have zero value. I got so tired about hearing people whine and complain like little girls that decided as a joke I'd downvoted anyone that was associated with a blog of that matter. The fact that several bloggers got so upset about getting downvoted made my day! Truthfully you should just get rid of the whole voting process or just simply allow people the freedom to vote as they choose(we do live in America?) I really like this website for the vast amounts of knowledge and opinions it provides but mostly all I read about is grown men arguing to who is more right or wrong. I have to read daily how somone elses opinion is crap and how I got downvoted for a comment. Jason-I appreciate you posting my name so that everone can bag on me now, that was such a professional thing to do as the owner/creator of this site. Maybe you can work some more magic and post my email address so that everyone can fill up my mailbox with why I downvoted them? As you referenced to me as wanting to watch the world burn I thought that you could have come up with something a bit more original but honestly I just don't care that you punished me and took away my voting rights. You act as if I did something wrong when all I did was downvote a bunch of people who are more concerned about losing a precious helemt sticker than actually talking sports. No worries 11Warriors faithful you will be able to sleep tonight becasue I can no longer downvote you an take away your stickers.
Train. Wreck.
If you love the site so much, why try to derail it, whether you like the voting system or not? Who put you in charge?
I'm sorry that I disclosed some fake name you use on the internet.
Respectfully, I believe Jason, and many of us, were trying to keep the site great by reviewing site etiquette. Random downvotes, and people whom downvote simply for disagreeing, discourage the "talking sports" that we all want. I do think your punishment was harsh; however, I also think you kind of asked for it by doing it on a thread created by said "owner/creator" of the site. In conclusion, I hope you can get past this, I know I will not hold a grudge against you, and we can all get back to enjoying this site and our buckeyes.
Ban the SOB
If it's a huge deal... then I'd suggest either eliminate the votes all together... monitor the trolls who just DV the whole time and ban them from this server... or rather than making up/downvoting anonymous make it so that we can see which person gave you and Up/Downvote that way these lil trolls can't hide.
I agree with the point someone made earlier in the threat on this that see who downvoted would probably just lead to retribution/pettiness.
"I can accept failure, but I can't accept not trying." -Woody Hayes
Good work Jason, got a good laugh when I clicked on that users profile... he actually started a thread about what exactly a "troll" was lol. Maybe he was just gaining knowledge before striking!
Darn you where on to me also. You and Jason are like Scooby Doo?
I agreed with some of what RedStorm posted on TP, I think he did what you should never do, and he started letting people get to him and responding in a negative tone. Whenever I post something that might rub someone the wrong way, i dont go after that person and start belittling them because they don't agree. It's hard not to get upset when you get a bunch of downvotes, the best thing to to do IMO is not react. I guess I wouldn't see the point in having my 11w membership tarnished in the name of Terrelle Pryor. When I get upset about something on 11w, I go into my attic with a ball peen hammer and start smashing cassette tapes. That always makes me feel better.
We all have different opinions. My opinion on TP is he was a selfish, arrogant kid who wanted attention. He was a tremedous athlete, but an average passer. He made some amazing plays that were a lot of fun to watch. He was not the only one solely to blame for all the trouble. If Tressell suspends all players involved for the BCS game, and moves forward, He is still our coach. Just my 2 cents. If anyone disagrees with me its okay. Thats why we come to these sites, I don't have many options to talk Buckeye football where I work.
Dustin Fox was our leading tackler as a corner.... because his guy always caught the ball.
I agree with you partly, but I said this in another thread:
I posted almost the exact opinion as Redstorm, but I did it in one post, as a thought-out, formatted few paragraphs that represented my point without undermining other posters. I don't think I recieved more than a few inherent downvotes for that. I believe there's always an approach that can express a view without animosity or disrespect for other posters.
In the same thread I also posted that I have a less than positive outlook on the way in which JT handled the situation and the way in which he is still viewed by BuckeyeNation. However, despite a few rogue downvotes, by approaching the subject with tact I avoided the downvote disaster that some others have experienced. It's rather simple folks, use class, tact, and an open mind and everyone can coexist peacefully, despite having seemingly polar opposite views on key issues.
"It is a man's own mind, not his enemy or foe, that lures him to evil ways." - Buddha
An upvote to all in order to counter what happened...not looking for any myself - seriously - but that was pretty lame of that dude to do, doing my part to right the ship a bit...
The world is full of kings & queens who'll blind your eyes & steal your dreams - it's heaven & hell - Ronnie James Dio.
Perhaps eliminating the down vote option from us, only allowing us to up vote and just leave the down votes to Jason and company?
I can't imagine the amount of time that would take for the 11W crew and MODs to handle?? Not sure this is feasible.
That doesn't really help eliminate trolling or offensive material which was part of the voting system's original purpose. The users were given some power so they could help out...the site's getting so big I think that would be too much for just the mods to handle.
I'd like to suggest a modification to this proposal: Putting the voting limit back down to 50 helmet stickers but change it so you can't downvote someone until you've hit 100. That way we're not discouraging new members from voting and at the same time we prevent people from getting a little too trigger happy with the downvotes before they've had a chance to learn the ropes around here.
"Anything easy ain't worth a damn." - Wayne Woodrow Hayes
Thats an even better idea. I support this comment.
Interesting...in a good way. And in that sense, I wouldn't mind 50 to upvote and 150 to downvote...
I too support this comment. As a daily reader of this site and its football forum who rarely comments, I'd suggest an even lower threshold to upvote, perhaps 25. I understand that my low helmet sticker total hasn't earned me full voting privileges, but I'd like to show some love to all the great users on this site via the upvote, especially GeneStarwind (how is he only 5th on the Leaderboard). Meanwhile, since a lot of harm seems to come from downvoting, I have no problem leaving that in the hands of the more frequent commenters.
I don't have anything to add to this, so I don't want to "reply", I just want to upvote it for the content.
Isn't that a good use of voting instead of replying with a short, one word answer?
This is certainly an option worth considering. As is the idea of limiting the number of downvotes per day. We'll look into these solutions when we have a chance. Thanks.
If someone is being a jerk downvote them. If they are disagreeing with you talk about it. After talking about it for awhile and you both see neither side will give in..... agree to disagree and move on.
I like to believe that my best hits border on felonious assault.
JACK TATUM
Only 70 more helmet stickers until I can give you the +1 you rightfully deserve!!
"It is a man's own mind, not his enemy or foe, that lures him to evil ways." - Buddha
69 DUDES!!!
-The Aristocrats!
Well put. I couldn't have said it better! Civil discussions, whether the parties are in agreement or not, are great for everyone. It broadens our knowledge of the said subject and it helps better understand other people and where they come from.
Jason, thanks for writing this. The thread you mentioned had me licking my chops to write something about the nature of polite discourse and the far-too frequent anecdotes of social media encouraging and incentivizing bad behavior in the public forum.
While political "discussions" are the most notorious for engendering hivemind and trollspeak, sports pages are almost as bad, and in some cases worse. I've often remarked that if you want to see the dregs of society, just read the comments section of any political or sports story on The Columbus Dispatch's website.
Keep up the great work, and thanks for saying what needed to be said.
Well written Andy! If I was able to give you a vote I would but Jason took away my voting rights. Keep up the good work!
I'm sorry guys, but I think this is quite silly. I've been frequenting this site for years, but rarely do I comment and/or post. There are many reasons for this, but I can't help but say that this community has changed dramatically in last 3 years. There is good, there is some bad. It's just taking on a different dynamic.
I feel a bit slighted that I've lost my ability to up/downvote. This site has obviously grown tremendously in the last few years and a consequence of that growth has been more irresponsible, immature, and trollish behavior. I suppose I can pander for upvotes and leaves but that's just not me.
I'm no less of a fan and no more of a fan than anyone else on the site, by the way.
The Ohio State University Class of 2001
BS Aero & Astronautical Engineering
you haven't lost your right to vote, you just have to do minimal effort in order to earn that right again, just as a necessary safeguard. You're at 84 as I type, and I'm about to upvote you to get you closer
This is excellent input and i believe if you commented more of this type of input, it could help this online community grow in the right direction as it deserves.
Also all the users who do not usually comment should reconsider because most of you have contributed to this forum and its very refreshing to see different point of views and different thoughts.
I think a good rule of thumb before posting something is to go back and read what you just typed. It's amazing how often I change my posts because actually reading it sounds way different than how I imagined it coming out through my fingers. Just changing a couple of words here or there can make a big difference on other peoples perceptions regarding your post.
This is a great point - emails, social media posts, text messages, etc., are notoriously bad about conveying the "fullness" of a message... Nonverbal cues, vocal intonations, etc., are completely lost, and in heated exchanges or with emotional topics, something you read one way as you type it sounds totally different when you read it. Often times I'll write something and then read it aloud as my way of "proofing" myself.
I try to reread my posts as if I wasn't the one that wrote it. This is different than a text conversation with a friend, because I know none of you people. I don't know your sarcastic tendencies, or the inflection that you may or may not use when you say certain things. If you read your own posts without the preconception that everyone understands you-- which they don't --and you say "this makes me sound like a dick, out of context", then you probably sound like a dick.
This is very true and I often do the same thing at work because it takes some of the emotion out of it.
Also, as long as it is not a personal attack on you, you just need to take a second and relax before posting. Differing opinions are wonderful for your own growth because it should make you think about what you said and re-evaluate. If you still stand by your comments, then offer another differing opinion without attacking someone.
it's often a good idea to be over-the-top at times with respect to being civil. We don't all have to be fine English gentlemen, but words often come off different on a screen than they do when you hear or write them.
Absolutely agree about different opinions being good for growth. As the old saying goes, if everyone's thinking the same thing, then someone's not thinking.
don't like needing 100 stickers to vote. I've been coming to this site since 2007 (when I first moved away from Ohio), but since I don't bother to comment all that often, I don't have the requisite number of helmet stickers to vote. I very rarely up/downvote a comment anyways, but every so often I like to show my approval of an excellent comment, or someone making a good point that hadn't been brought up before
You've been coming to the site since 2007 and you still can't vote? I think the solution is obvious: interact with the community more. Voting should be seen as a reward for those that participate.
Hmmmm. I find myself having multiple and somewhat contradictory opinions here. I agree with the thought that there's too much downvoting around here for petty reasons, and that you should always criticize the opinion (when it's warranted) and not the person making it.
However, the comment that sparked the 19 downvotes was really pretty obnoxious. Seriously, a former OSU quarterback and 3-time defeater of Michigan is getting his first start in the NFL, and you're on a Buckeye site announcing that you don't care? Sorry, but I think that's asking for it. Even saying "I hate him because of the tattoos and I hope he fails" would be less annoying.
I commend the hard work that the staff is doing in seeing that as 11W grows, it keeps its current culture as best it can; and doesn't become a place where rudeness, illiteracy, and having provocative "takes" in the interest of becoming this site's Skip Bayless are the norm.
The most "loud mouth, disrespect" poster on 11W.
Maybe you felt his comment was "obnoxious" to you, but sometimes we need extreme opinions to get us to THINK and TALK and DEBATE. Look at how much debate his comment is getting just from you, my friend. :)
"Here officer, hold my beer while I find my license."
I like the way you think! I'd give you a vote but I'm not allowed. I can give you an Adamant sticker instead which pretty much has the same value as a helmet sticker?
While I whole heartedly agree with the philosophies behind this change, I must say it's a kick to the groin that one needs 100 helmet stickers now as I had just gained the ability to vote last week.
*sigh* Only 48 more to go...
You are 1 closer!
+1 for the sweet profile pic!
It's a giving community around here, helping the less fortunate...
-The Aristocrats!
Or you could just get rid of it altogether (do we really need each others validation/cosigns with a point system?)
This place is unique and different from that other blog or reddit.
Keep it that way.
I love Buckeye sports especially football. My daughter and I are always discussing football and we established a tradition of watching "the game" together. We usually have a little feast for the game and this year was no exception. I made chilli, french dip sandwiches with au ju, and what I call nacho fiestas (tortilla chips smothered in chilli, homemade queso, topped with shredded lettuce, jalapenos, onions, grated cheese, and sour cream). She turned me on to 11W in December of 2011. Great site and there are great people on this site who care about the same things I do.
I understand the hivemind thing and the requirement now to have 100 stickers. It is a shame we cannot come on here and discuss issues and have opinions without others sitting/hiding behind a screen and downvoting somebody for voicing their opinion. Having the right to express one's opinion is a right gauranteed by our forefathers when they wrote the Constitution. This is what makes us great as a nation, our ability to say things about subjects we are passionate about be it (forgive me for mentioning these) religion, politics, sports, etc.
I like what Hail and MMan have to say. I like what others put down and how they express themselves.
Well Happy New Year to all and I will continue to read and comment here and there on this great site.
Jason, FWIW thanks for tackling this! I have many times felt the need to clarify the up/down vote rules because innocent comments get downvoted way too often. However, I did not approach the subject because of the risk of getting downvoted myself. There seems to be some opinions that the voting system was not needed, particularly to keep us "different" from other sites. But, as 11W has grown, many of us have seen the need for a system to indeed make us different from the other sites. There were a lot of threads before the voting system that got "out of hound" quickly - either through trolls hacking away or simply users losing tempers. You saw the need to get a handle on that and have your users assist in keeping things civil. The voting system was very well explained when you implemented it - downvotes were to be used only when someone was violating the commenting policy. Somehow, users lost track of that. A reminder, like this post, is a good way to keep us all in line.
I would imagine that the voting system is a good way to red flag things that need attention. Like you pointed out in this thread, the admins will take action if necessary. Keep up the good work! This is what really separates 11W from all the other sites, whether they allow up/down voting or not. 11W pays attention to what is being said and does their best to make this a civil site for discussing everything about OSU athletics.
I'm 39 which makes me about 73 in internet years. There's a lot I don't get about the internet. Derp, lulz, and schadenfreude are words i had never heard of before coming to this site and had to google them. I don't know if noone is some sort of hip internet lingo or just a suprisingly common mispelling. I literally cannot decipher twitter feeds because I don't understand the concept of hashtags. After I made a comment on another post a few days ago, Denny responded with "applause dot gif dot forever". No clue what the hell that means. Not sure if it's a compliment or insult, but was too embarassed to ask so I just played along. I was just happy Denny responded because he seems like a witty dude. You can count this whole upvote/downvote thing among the many internet phenomenon I don't understand. I seldom provide anything insightful with my comments. I mostly just ask questions, make an obvious observation, or leave a sarcastic remark not directed at anyone in particular, but hopefully someone finds funny. I've never downvoted anyone and I upvote sparingly. I simply don't understand how people can care so much about this. It seems to me that helmet stickers have become a sort of currency on this site which some/many people think gives them some validation. It's like on Facebook when people accept all kinds of friend requests with people they have no intention of keeping in contact with. They just want to up their friend total because it makes them look cool. I think the same is happening with the helmet stickers. It's a shame because in my opinion, the site was better when it was just about the comments and the ensuing discussion. But hey, I'm old and not entirely web savvy so I understand that I'm in the minority. This is still the best OSU site around so I'll keep coming, downvotes be damned.
I'm 30, and I'm with you completely. I don't even have a facebook account. I think the downvotes are supposed to be used for us to self police the site for trolls. Like that guy a month or so ago who posted multiple forum topics daily. Then snapped back at people for telling him to cool it, and if he has a question, just ask someone instead of creating a topic. I think for that reason the downvotes are applicable. I try not to downvote people unless they say something really dumb that warrants it. I do agree with you about helmet stickers, I think some people try to make it a competition. I value the information and members of this site too much to care about helmet stickers.
Dustin Fox was our leading tackler as a corner.... because his guy always caught the ball.
I can confirm that Denny is just as witty of a dude in real life as he seems on here.
JUST DO AWAY WITH THE DOWNVOTE OPTION!
Only allow upvotes. Problem solved Many newspapers online do this.
I hate to bag on our public school system, but they deserve it. This "group think" or "collective" mentality is what we have. Any differing opinion is cast out. I'm 48, and bet I'm older than 95% of the visitors to this site. I'm old fashioned and very opinionated. Therefore, I get downvoted frequently. I actually think there are a couple that stalk me here just waiting to pounce on me with a downvote anytime I comment.
I've don't even downvote any Michelin fans here, UNLESS they're just trash talking(my team rulz, your teams sucks, because I said so), which doesn't happen too often.
"Here officer, hold my beer while I find my license."
I am actually one of the 10% older than you!! LOL I know you suggested doing away with the downvotes, but they have proven to be very effective at getting rid of trolls. And, if someone is actually downvote stalking you, it is easily verified by the admins (as Jason pointed out in this post) - they know who is doing the downvoting. It may take a while, but this will all sort itself out, and I suspect any habitual violators will be dealt with.
Personally, the downvote/upvote system kept me involved and interested. Not only have i lost privileges, it is now harder to get stickers. Color me disappointed
born and raised in Cleveland
It is not harder to get stickers. Nothing changed there.
One thing I learned real quick is to NOT CAMPAIGN for helmet stickers. That will get you about 50-60 downers.
"Here officer, hold my beer while I find my license."
At the time of this post I believe the going rate is -22 ;)
http://www.elevenwarriors.com/forum/football/2013/01/need-more-stickers-...
The ratio you posted is an excellent point that needs emphasis. People get way too bent out of shape over one or two downvotes. It is gonna happen, deal with it. If it's a systematic thing, like someone is downvoting all your posts, either ignore it or message the admins. I'm sorry the admins have to deal with this kind of stuff, but popularity of the site has it's drawbacks, and I'm sure it's worth it for them.
I think maybe we need to take down the leaderboard, that way people only care if they are at or near the 100. Other than that, you don't know if are the most stickered guy or the 20th or whatever. Maybe people will care less then. If caring less is the goal, which it might not be.
Also I second the either be able to confirm your vote or separate the buttons or be able to change/edit your vote to reduce accidental downvotes.
“Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect.” - Woody
I second the idea of no leaderboard. I get the appeal, but it has to feed into the competitive spirit of some people. On the other hand I am sure that it is good for 11W as it encourages us to keep posting?
There's a leaderboard?
I agree: get rid of the leaderboard. I think it is probably most responsible for the commenting section shift from quality to quantity.
Class of 2008
While I respect your opinion, I think the growth of the site is most responsible for the number of comments. We're roughly 4x larger than we were last year at this time (and we were 3x larger last year at this time than the previous year, and so on).
My suggestion was limiting downvotes to one per member per day. This would pretty much eliminate downvote wars. Not sure how hard it would be to implement, though (code-wise).
Real fans stay for Carmen.
I agree with that and have also mentioned it in other posts over the last few months in regards to those that mention the rules of downvoting. It may not need to be a limit of one, but at least putting a restriction on the total number of downvotes keeps things like the random downvoting of an entire thread by one person (like it was done on this thread earlier) and it makes people value the idea behind a downvote...so instead of just downvoting frenzies or the aforementioned hivemind, you use it for those who are trolling and such.
Hey guys, as the user referenced I felt like I should clarify. I did post an apology and will follow a moratorium of sorts for my name-calling after that ( see Apologies thread. I'm on my phone so it's hard to link). A buddy of mine told me about this and to check it out. I didn't know about the negative stickers limit but I normally don't care about the voting system (I mean, cool...approval of other buckeye fans but there are more important things no offense).
What I meant in my originally comment on that thread was that I was seeing a lot of chatter and praise about TP. He largely started the fall and caused the investigation 2 years ago. No, his actions alone didn't ban us, but none of the ensuing investigation and results occur without him at the center of it. He's a supposed "true Buckeye" but was the only one to bail on his senior year. Anyway, I don't really care about that anymore and like we've all said it brought us urban. My question was just asking if anyone else didn't care about TP's pro career. I'm not rooting against him but I just don't care about a week 17 meaningless start (ok sure he showed the coaches something for next year). We had also heard about this for a few weeks so I was over the whole Pryor is actually playing thing.
Like I've said, I apologize for letting my emotions get the better of me after that. I'll hopefully be back around NSD to enjoy a top 3 class and perhaps some outside shooting from the basketball team. Go bucks!
A problem could be that "Up" and "Down" are pretty generic terms and are thus subject to interpretation.
Maybe we could have explicit labels, e.g. "I like this" and "Troll alert" ?
"We get paid to score touchdowns, not kick field goals"
-- Urban Meyer
I just don't understand the point. I get why it was implemented. "Reward good posters, eliminated trolls". But I don't understand how that is an issue that needs to be solved. Good posters speak for themselves. I'm sure anyone that frequents the site could point out who is a good poster by username and/or avatar. I don't need some sort of system to tall me that I like Maestro (then again, I know the dude) or Buck-I.8 and typically will read what they have to say. In the same way, trolls are not subtle by definition. All it takes is a "report" button that will alert the mods. Ban hammer falls and all is well.
Instead, we have a system that has done nothing but cause confusion, frustration, and distraction. If you have to consistently explain a system, it's not effective. If a thread has to be stopped multiple times to complain about it, then it is counter-productive.
It was a valiant effort to bring something new to the site to better the userface and community interaction, and I appluad the staff for caring that much to put it in place. But I think it is time to admit that it is not a good system and try something different.
Cause I couldn't go for three
not so sure I agree with many of your points, but I really like the idea of a report button. +1 for that my friend!
Please see this comment.
It absolutely was needed and it absolutely is working. I'm sorry you had a bad experience with it.
Jason, I respect the hell out of you for what you've done here. You're not saving the world from aliens or anything but I'm sure you would try to do what you could. You've got guts and I, for one, greatly appreciate that. In all my years of circling the block, witnessing lack of intestinal fortitude of those that could make a difference and chose not to became maddening. Love the way you handle things and support you all the way. Not that you need to hear that just wanted to let you now how this one older member felt about it. And it's a good example to those beginning to circle the block, for lack of a better anology, take charge of things and make it work for the better when in a position to. OK I'll get down now. Anyway thanks Jason.
Deleted.
Everybody Love Everybody, and respect the DownVote!
All in all, great points, and, please keep 11W awesome.
Happy to see some of the downvoting issues being addressed. Thank you guys for all that you do.
Class of 2010.
Bummer...I just recently got enough helmet stickers to vote and now have to get 50 more.
Jim Tressel vs. Rich Rod = Urban Meyer vs. Brady Hoke
Can we retire the word "hivemind"?
D. Anthony
Two things.
When you upvote or downvote a comment, you cannot undo that action. I remember I downvoted a comment that, in the end, I probably shouldn't have (IIRC, it was an opinion that I strongly disagreed with), but I had no way of undoing it. This might be a good feature to add.
Second, maybe 11W should implement a system like SlickDeals, where if you downvote a thread/comment, you have to select an option for why you're downvoting it. You could make one of these options "I disagree with this post," which shows up as a downvote, but doesn't actually affect the user's helmet sticker count.
That being said, there are always going to be dicey threads, where the downvote system is going to be abused.
Too funny! Just saw this post, and checked where I was on helmet stickers. 95! Oooh so close! It's not that important one way or the other for me. I am on here almost daily just to read what the best blog has to say. I don't often comment, and rarely upvote OR downvote. I just think the article content is worth the trip in itself. And like all of you, I'm waiting for the fireworks in 2013. Go Bucks!
Ah, so this is why I lost voting privilege- helmet stickers were upped to 100. I feel no need to win more stickers than others. However, I do like to contribute my thoughts when they add something to the conversation. Unfortunately, I cannot participate as robustly until I clear another threshold which is a bit unfair. I agree that diverging opinions are too oft down voted but I am not so sure new voters are the problem.
There are always people caught in the middle of trying to keep people from abusing the system. It is a side effect that we always have to live with. For example, it took me 2 years to get my kids from Ethiopia, wasting two precious years of bonding and development, because a handful of people decided to abuse the system by trafficking kids, not being ready for children, abusing them ,etc. many times good people get caught in the middle, thank the a users for that...
Way to put my very small problem into perspective (I don't mean that sarcastically). I am not THAT upset about it. Besides, I am clever. I will get to 100 soon enough.
Your greater point is well taken. It is also why this year's Buckeye squad can't play for a NC.
Forgive me if this was mentioned in the two full pages of posts, above, but I'm of the opinion that having a daily limit of downvotes (3-5) and Upvotes (10-20) would help just about every issue. If you have to save your votes for the best of the best, there will be a lot less abuse of the system.
Those who stay will be CHAMPIONS!
~Bo Schembechler
Ha hail that'd help you a lot. You get downvoted for anything cus your horrible choice in teams ;)
Actually, I enjoy a spirited conversation with the likes of Hail and others from opposing teams. Before we played Nebraska, I went to their blog and welcomed them to the B1G, and specifically to the upcoming game with us. I was received respectfully and had an intelligent discourse with a number of their fans. I wish we were able to tolerate, yes, even the trolls who appear here, and laugh amiably about some of the comments many of you find "offensive". These things should not bother us in the least, let alone having to feel like we must "band together" to somehow erase their immature and ignorant comments. I see those things as, well...FUNNY. outsiders hate the Bucks because of the acknowledged CONSISTENCY throughout the years, which does foster a jealous mentality among those who are fans of teams that "come and go". Even in the vaunted SEC, there really isn't a team that, over a period of ten years or so, has performed as well as our very own Buckeyes. This is why others like to rag us during the one year they might have a contender. Remember the year that Cincinatti was ranked higher than we were? Their fans popped over here in droves to remind us. Do you see them back? Nope. Why? Because even they know the truth of our consistency, as does the rest of the college world. They celebrate our down years, rare as they are. I think it is dawning on the rest of the B1G about just how special the situation is in Columbus. It is the start of a domination that has no historical precedent (and you thought the LAST ten years were great?). The college world, including ESPN, will soon be forced to amend particular comments when talking about SEC "dominance" or "speed" advantage by saying, "...well, uh, except for Ohio State". We will be the antithesis to the SEC myth (and it is more myth and hype than hard truth).
Celebrate the fact that we are the standard bearers and the class of the B1G, and in the spirit of football superiority, tolerate...even embrace and humor, the mice who enter our house for a bit of cheese. We ought to stop what we are doing and cater to the poor creature...even to the point of a good natured slap on the back and congratulate him and his team for temporarily rising above mediocrity, for we all know he will soon sink back beneath the waves again. That will slowly change the culture of the hated troll, who will leave bewildered about the humane treatment received here. That, more than any amount of downvoting, will impact blog society.
Happy New Year to my fellow Buckeyes. We are a unique and special group!
my question is and sorry if this has already been asked:
in regards to multiple posts on one subject is there away to merge them all in to one forum topic via a mod?
Thanks for posting this clarification (well, it was probably clear before, but obviously not everyone followed the guidance, including me!).
Now, maybe someone can explain why they downvoted some of the posts in the "favorite band" topic!
http://www.elevenwarriors.com/forum/anything-else/2012/10/favorite-band