Could the recruiting magic be over for Brady Hoke? He pulled in one of the top classes in the nation in 2013, but he seems to be struggling with his top in-state recruits. 247 sports has 8 players listed as college prospects from the state of Michigan. Most of them have already commited, including five of the top six prospects. Not a single one has commited to Michigan. The number two and five recruits have went to Sparty. Three and six are with OSU, and the number four prospect in the state is going to Wisky (yeah Wisconsin is in Brady's base and stealin his dudes).
Look Hoke is a good coach and a good recruiter, so don't think this is a "LOL NO 1 WANTS TO PLY FOR MISHIGIN!" thread. I'm sure he will bring in another good haul of players, but it is weird that so many of their in-state prospects have decided to leave this early in the game. Look at our two recruits from Michigan. Damon Webb is from Cass Tech, scUM's number one pipeline school. And then you look at Lawrence Marshall, who by all accounts scUM was going at him hard, and he left his home state. What do you guys think? Does Tsun just not want these guys and they're letting them get away? Or is it a sign their having some problems getting kids to go to their school?
Urban's goal is to take out the top end talent that sustains them, and he's doing it easily.
I would hope he's taking the talent that he needs and will fit with his team, rather than doing this just to rob the pool for UM. That doesn't do anyone any good.
Webb is a consensus 5-star at DB and Marshall is a really good DE prospect. Meyer seems to be taking the approach that he'll take the best plaers he can, but so much the better if the commitments hurt our biggest rival at the same time. Only problem is that NSD 2014 is a LONG way away. We've got 360 days to worry about Hoke and co. stealing those kids back.
I assume you meant to say 4-star. That said, I agree, these are great players that UM will miss. The one thing that's good about early commitments at a school like this is that the recruits have the summer camp season to get really close to each other. I don't anticipate not having decommitments in any recruiting cycle, ever, but hopefully e get some cohesion in this group before guys can have second thoughts.
Yeah and you know there is going to be ALOT of pressure from friends/family/coaches to change their mind.
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I doubt very highly that Urban is going to go after Missagain guys just to keep them from Missagain and Hokey Pokey. The guys he pulled from the Missagain area look as tho they fit fine with what is being built here
Battles are sometimes won by generals; wars are nearly always won by sergeants and privates. Football is no different, the guys down in the trenches win the games, not the coach.
Urbs is putting everyone on notice!!! No other BIG TEN team will out-work,out-coach,out-recruit him!!! For decades that team up north has plucked OHIO talent up their way.We actually kill 2 birds with recruiting that other state.We make our team better and weaken our opponent.Plus I believe they see something special going on at OSU,and want to be a big part of it!!
SCOTTC.
I think the real gem in the OP's note is that two of the Top 10 in-state recruits up there have gone to Sparty: that's a good thing, actually, because for the "good of the conference," Sparty needs another season or two where it performs relatively well, rather than another season of underperforming compared with its expectations.
When I was researching this post, I found that last season roughly 47% of MSU's roster featured in-state talent (that is based on the full official roster, not just scholarship athlets), while TTUN's only featured 40% homegrown boys. In other words, since there is a good competition for in-state players, and since M*ch*g*n typically does better than Sparty pulling in top-tier out-of-state recruits, Sparty needs to haul in the better in-state class.
So I guess Sparty is the real hometown team. I just hope Dantonio can keep up in the new B1G recruiting landscape. It's going to get harder for him without the Tress-Dantonio recruiting alliance.
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Here's a question: is it "good for the conference" if OSU dominates, and other teams are at a level of average production? Is it inherently any better or worse for the conference if OSU is the best, UM is only slightly less accomplished, the rest of the teams are pathetic? I think either situation isn't ideal, and that's why I think the only way Urban will get what he wants from opposing coaches, is to foster more recruitment outside of the midwest. The B1G is wasting resources if UM and MSU fight over limited local rectruits, instead going outside the comfort zone.
I think Urban wants all the B1G teams to be way better and yet still be the cream of the crop. Like Bama has been in the SEC. Clearly the best in the best conference. The B1G can shoot for at least being the 2nd best football conference as it was not too long ago... being the perennial best team in the 2nd best conference means you're playing for very high stakes and some NC's.
D. Anthony
D. hit the nail on the head: Urban doesn't want a Big 2, Little 10. He wants to be dominant in a conference that can compete consistently with the SEC and (to a lesser extent) the PAC-12.
I do not think so, but I am glad it is their problem (I recognize that their potential weakness may be a problem for us as well). I believe that Urban doing so well with national recruiting should force other B1G teams to up their game. We will see, but I hope so. Either way, I am excited for the effort Urban and Co. are putting in.
I'm always for a stronger conference, as it makes us better. And yes, the conference needs to improve. I have been saying for years that the conference has needed more than tOSU and ttun. Penn St. comes and goes, as does Michigan St. Wisc has been solid, and Iowa has had a few moments. The team that is truly disappointing for thsi era is Illinois. No excuse for them to have some of the poor teams and runs taht they have had. And obvously, I dont' mind if we dominate. We all want that. Perhaps we will force the rest of the conference to step up and force that by getting out in front. If ya aint the lead dog ...
Love what Urban and team are doing. Everyone is on notice. Get out of the way, then try to keep up. Go Bucks!
Rutgers to the rescue!!!
At the end of the day... the conference doesn't matter... to the recruit or to UFM. In the end he is always going to get the talent level that he wants, from wherever it resides... this has nothing to do with the conference. True strength of schedule can matter. but after next year it matters much less. we can go 12-0 and be ranked 2-4 in the nation and still make the playoffs and win out. If we keep our nose clean, we will get the consideration over most other programs to be in the top 4 with a lighter schedule. and eventually, our schedule does get more competitive in our non-conference games. besides if the conference stays as it is, half the division games we play will be like playing the 1st 4 of the year as we are used to anyway
"Statistics always remind me of a fellow who drowned in a river where the average depth was only three feet." - Coach Woody Hayes
Disagree with you a bit here. Correct, in that it doesn't matter in what we do. We do need the conference to be stronger for our own sake, though. We'll schedule (1) major non-conference game, and that's it (VT, Oregon, Oklahoma). If there are (2) Big Ten teams that test us, great. Bust we can't have (8) weeks off.
long way to go before NSD next year... dont think just because these guys committed elsewhere that UM wont push for them before they sign the dotted line...hope we keep on top of things up there, particularly with Webb.
There certainly is reason for Hoke and company to take notice about OSU coming in and getting Webb and Marshall, both who Michigan wanted and offered. However, there is a bit more than meets the eye of not getting the commitments the top 5 of 6.
First of all, Malik McDowell has yet to commit. He is the best player available in the state and #1A or #1B priority. He seems to like ND a lot, at this point, too, so it won't be easy. Drake Harris (#1A or #1B, as well) has re-opened his commitment. There are a lot of big name schools after him, but Michigan has as good of chance as anyone. With that said, it's expected he won't end up at MSU.
Chance Stewart wasn't offered. Speight was the only QB offered and committed immediately. Ratings and fan perspective aside, Hoke and Borges got who they wanted. Deon Drake wasn't offered. Michigan has Ferns already in this class and 2 consecutive nice hauls at LB. #7, Tommy Doles, seems to be a Michigan lean.
Again, we wanted Webb and Marshall; props to Coombs and Urban for getting them. I think Webb is firm. However, Parrker Westphal is believed to be Michigan's #1 CB target, as he was offered 6 weeks before Webb. Michigan is the presumed leader for Westphal. It's too early to tell with Marshall. At WDE, Michigan just signed Taco. Michigan is looking good at SDE, with very good shots at Bryan Mone, Malik McDowell, and still a chance to get a look from Da'Shawn Hand.
It almost seems like a role reversal from last year with Hoke and Urban. OSU already with 5 commits. Entering enemy territory with some big gets, while taking some of the in-state leans, as well. Hoke and Co. seem to be throwing out a little wider net and aren't as liberal with the offers in this smaller class. It's really early still, and there is no reason for Michigan fans to be flipping out right now. If McDowell and Harris both end up elsewhere, Michigan fans may commence worrying. For now, you just have to applaud Meyer and Co.
Those who stay will be CHAMPIONS!
~Bo Schembechler
I almost asked this question at mgoblog, but they were on a short fuse for good reason yesterday:
Do you think the offer for Speight had anything at all to do with his access to Drake Harris? I'm not by any means implying that that's the explicit reason, but I think there are few coaches and analysts that wouldn't argue that Cornwall, who really liked UM, was the better prospect. Is there any chance the staff sees that they got a possible 'franchise' guy last year, and felt like they had less pressure to strike gold for this cycle, so they gambled on a project that might yield one of the nations best WRs?
Just an idea I was tossing around in my bored mind this morning, feel free to tell me I'm full of shit.
I don't see why Speight has more access to Harris than anyone else. He just seems to be active on twitter.
Honestly, I don't think a connection to Harris had anything to do with it. I think Borges and Hoke just wanted Speight. I do think they're more willing to take a project guy like Speight with the apparent safety blanket of a franchise QB in the previous class. The "project" part of it might still be TBD, but it seems that way now. The thing is, if things turn out the way Michigan expects, Speight might not be challenging for a starting job until his [RS] Senior season in 2018 (if my math is correct).
His enthusiam definitely helps, but I'm not sure that he has any more of a connection than Cornwall could've had. Maybe I don't know the whole story?
Those who stay will be CHAMPIONS!
~Bo Schembechler
I'd say the kid has a ton of things to fix his senior to not be a fairly large 'project' at the next level. Which is ok, obviously. We all take players like that. (LTT, Gareon Conley, even Jalin Marshall can be considered a project in many ways).
Point is, we might get a proper guage of Borges's alleged prowess with QBs when he tries to fix that back foot throw that Speight seems to fall right back on on any throw that he doesn't basically crow hop on. Sure, it's fixable, and you'd rather have that problem than a weak arm, but you're one bad QB coach away from a less mobile Taylor Martinez, and I look forward to watching the situation develop in the future.
Hail makes a great point: It's not always about getting the biggest names, but about wanting the names you get, and getting the ones you've offered... Ohio State might not have locked down the top recruits at every position last season, but as the NSD trifecta showed, Meyer & Company got the ones they went after.
Taco is "soft"
When I first wrote this I tought "Well it's probably nothing, they'll (Tsun) do fine in the end" but the more I think about it I really don't think they will come even close this time. Here's my line of thought.
Despite coming off of their best year in a long time, they managed to pull exactly zero, ZERO, players from SEC country in this most recent recruiting class. In fact they had 17 of 27 recruits from either the state of Ohio or Michigan, 9 from Ohio and 8 from Michigan. In total over 80% of their recruits were from B1G country. In the state of Ohio there was a major recruiting vaccum due to the OSU turbulance and Hoke was able to scoop up a lot of good guys. Recruiting isn't the kind of this where it's like Coombs gives a call and says "Hey, come play for OSU" and the recruit says "ok" then it's done. Recruiting is a long process that takes relationships to build up, Urban had no time to build that up here and Hoke took advantage of that (as he should have). When you look at the national recruiting scene, despite coming off of a great year, with a new coach, and selling "a new day in MU football", and a BCS win, the impact they made on the national scene was almost nil, or at least not even close to what we need to keep up with the SEC.
Now look at this year if you're Michigan, you have to sell an 8-5 squad and your biggest regional rival is as strong if not stronger than ever. Lets face it, when it comes to regional recruiting we are the hottest thing in town right now, so I don't think there is any way that MU does as well regionally. Then you look at nationally, how are they supposed to do better this year when with all the MU hype the couldn't put together a great national class? When they couldn't pull a single SEC guy?
I know, it's early and it's just a few in state guys, but I really think there is a lot to be worried about in Hoke land.
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First, it's UofM, or TSUN, even. Not MU. Secondly, Michigan received commits from kids in 10 different states last year, including Derrick Green from Virginia. I don't know when getting players from "SEC Territory" became any sort of measuring stick. RichRod recruited Florida as well (probably better) than any other B1G school, but it doesn't guarantee success. The anomaly this year was that Michigan didn't get a single guy out of California for the first time in some 15 or 17 years; especially bizarre with Hoke recruiting California so heavily while at SDSU.
The thing is, Michigan, like OSU, is a national brand. They won't get every top guy they're after, but they're going to go out and get a lot of talent from throughout the country. I do agree that Michigan is a tougher sell than OSU, right now. How can anyone argue that with Urban's popularity or the fact that OSU just finished an undefeated season?
Those who stay will be CHAMPIONS!
~Bo Schembechler
First, MU only got five guys from outside the B1G footprint. Derrick Green out of Virgina was a good grab, but MU is about as deep at RB as a puddle. Outside of that 1 guy from North Carolina, 1 guy from Colorado, 1 guy from Massachusetts, and 1 guy from Maryland. Thats not a very big national recruiting haul for a national brand coming off of a stellar season no matter how you slice it. Getting guys out of SEC country is a big deal when you're taking the some of the top recruits from Missouri, Georiga, and Texas which are recruited a lot more than say Massachusetts.
Second, you mean to tell me it's not MU?
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For once, I agree with Hail. I hate the dumb nicknames people make for different schools, just like true Michigan fans don't like it when the Wal-Marters call us O$U and the like. I call them UM or Michigan. If they choose to call us Ohio, I'm actually perfectly fine with that. I'm proud of my city, both Columbus and Akron, where I grew up, and I have a lot of pride in my state. If they want to imply that OSU=the state of Ohio, I'm ok with that, because it does seem to embody and unify a populous state with a giant university in its center.
EDIT: Oh, and also, I'll add that I do agree with your point as well. I hardly think that taking players from CO and MA (something we did in 2012) equates 'national recruiting'. I tend to think there's a tacit guideling that said national recruiting has to be in areas that are actually at least marginal producers of talent. Those states make Michigan look like Texas.
So if urban takes 3 guys in the top 100 that aren't from FL, TX or CA...Like Elliott, Apple, Michael Hill (top 200), that doesn't count as national?
What if Michigan lands Hand and Peppers (In my dreams, I know) from NJ and VA?
Sure you can attribute some to level of competition, but if you get 20 four-star or better players, who the heck cares where they come from?
Those who stay will be CHAMPIONS!
~Bo Schembechler
I don't include Elliott in the national recruiting discussion. He's in an SEC state now, but he's not in a talent rich area, and the SEC footprint is not evident in Missouri quite yet. We'll see how it progresses in the future. That said, CO and especially MA are a far cry from NJ and VA as far as competition and production goes.
Keep in mind, though, I'm not downplaying the players themselves. I'm simply saying that no matter how they pan out in college, it's not some huge national coup to go into MA and get Armani Reeves, or even moreso, Maurice Hurst Jr. The same goes for Joey O'Connor and Chris Fox. These guys don't get recruited by the top schools unless they're really something special, and even then the offers usually don't come until they've committed or at least garnered interest from the top tier programs.
Ok, so to be clear, one must get recruits from annual talent hotbeds or SEC hotbeds to be considered a "National Recruiter." But if a guy is the #1 guy from a non-hotbed state that doesn't count?
I'm sorry. First of all, I'm not concerned with the states players come from. Secondly, I disagree with the whole sentiment. As fan bases, we go back and forth with comments like X recruit is better than Y recruit because his composite score is higher, and (when our commit is the Y) Y fits our system better or I trust our coaching staff.
Or look at Nebraska's class: (4) CA, (3) TX, (3) OH, (3) FL. So they recruit nationally, but are barely a top 25 class. The fact is, that probably the top 50 programs have the capability to land a recruit from anywhere in the country. Obviously, the better programs will land the bigger fish, more times than not.
Those who stay will be CHAMPIONS!
~Bo Schembechler
I guess I should've been more clear, and I absolutely don't blame for disagreeing, because like literally all aspects of recruiting evaluation, mine is as subjective as any others. I don't think it applies towards "national recruiting", beyond being semantically literal, if you take the best prospect from a weak state or a weak prospect from the string states. I don't think Urban should be hailed as a strong national recruiter for getting Ricquan Southward last cycle, and I feel the same way about Michigan and a guy like, idk, Russel Bellomy.
Hail: AngryWoody is on the right track. It's just that trying to sort between SEC recruiting states versus non-SEC recruiting states can confuse the key questions. In part because, yes, a handful of big time studs come out of states like VA, NC, NJ, MD, even Mass, while - you're also right - it doesn't mean anything to get a marginal talent just because he's coming out of Florida or Georgia (a la Rich Rod).
On the other hand, if you look at which schools are offering which kids, it becomes clearer that Michigan's 2013 class did not have a big national footprint.
Yes, they landed two big time studs that all the major programs wanted - D. Green and Poggi. Those were homeruns, at least in recruting terms. It doesn't matter that these two kids came out of MD and VA instead of GA and FLA, they were big time recruits.
On the other hand, look at offer lists for the other four kids that Michigan landed outside the traditional BT recruiting footprint:
Now, I realize that Michigan probably landed some of these kids early and if the kids are giving the cold shoulder to any and all recruiters, that would scare away other potentially higher profile offers. But the point is that Michigan wasn't winning a bunch of head-to-head battles against other heavyweight programs outside the BT footprint.
Stribling was a late riser at a competitive high school, so he got slightly overshadowed until his senior year. I'll concede that as a statement towards the UM staff's evaluation talent.
I'd argue that Kugler is still loosely in B1G country, but he was huge get regardless.
Hurst's offer list is still fitting for me. I didn't like him as a prospect when we looked at him, and I still don't beyond his lineage.
Chris Fox, as a mentioned above, is no huge coup for any staff. He's in a lightly scouted area that really doesn't get looked at by the top schools unless the prospect is a total stud.
I just don't think Michigan can truly say they've won a major recruiting battle yet. They got Derrick Green basically as a contingency because a lot of his other schools filled up. He wasn't even interested in UM until OSU and Clemson stopped looking at him. It ended up a battle between two bad SEC teams with new staffs that run offenses that aren't great fits, and a pro-style school with some potential in UM. Not really a close battle. Other than that, I can't think of a major showdown with a major school that they've won, especially not this year: (Levenberry, Cravens, McQuay, etc.) Maybe Poggi, but Bama didn't push for him until well after he committed, and they didn't exactly put the full press on.
Did you mean Treadwell instead of Cravens? Su'a was never headed anywhere but USC. You're right, though. Michigan hasn't won many head to head battles, but Derrick Green shouldn't be downplayed because how his recruitment played out. Levenberry was definitely a head-to-head loss and probably cost Michigan Dorian O'Daniel and everyone's favorite flipper Anzalone (at least a chance with them). McQuay I don't consider a loss. There was some late interest, Michigan in top 3 or 5. Michigan gave him an ultimatum to commit in July and he wanted to wait until November. Then Conley flipped, Treadwell dropped Michigan, and Michigan started pursuing again. Arguably too late. It's a shame because I wanted him.
Also, like you alluded to, some kids don't pick up the offers when they commit early in the process, or receive offers a week before NSD. Then you have the kids like Shane Morris that simply don't report the offers. Throw Burrows and Marshall in there, too. In that sense, you're not really winning a head to head battle...you're blowing the competition away. There's no contest. Had Morris or Marshall taken all the way to NSD, there would've been a lot of debate and favorites and all the drama.
Again, I agree Michigan hasn't won a lot of "head to heads," but, at the same time, they haven't been forced to, per se, because of all the early commits.
Those who stay will be CHAMPIONS!
~Bo Schembechler
Ok, but Burrows and Marshall, and Morris don't illustrate a counterpoint to my contention. That's not a major national battle when you lock up a guy in your backyard early. Sure, you can be pumped because you got a stud, but I think when Michigan goes head to head with top programs outside of their football team, they don't tend to be very successful, and I don't think Tressel was great at it either (not that he tried very often). I think that's where Urban makes a difference. Hoke is blessed with some great assistant coaches/recruiters, but these are the first years that he himself has had to sack up and throw his hat into the ring for these top targets. You don't have to do that at SDSU, you can afford to be a bit passive, because trying to get the McQuays and the Greens is a lost cause.
Green as a contingency? Come on now. You can rationalize if you want, but Green had an offer from just about everywhere, and Alabama was recruiting Poggi hard before he committed.
Given Hoke's recruiting style, I wouldn't expect him to have many head to head battles to fight. When you're class is almost done by July, there isn't much drama.
Green's offer was not committable at some of the schools, like OSU, and at other schools he waited long enough for the backfields to fill up. As I said, Green was a nice recruiting win for UM, but it's not as if they went head to head with the big boys without a little help. Not criticizing, just pointing it out. I would love Green to be in our '13 class, even now
Fair enough. I guess the question is, what difference does it make? It doesn't matter how you get the Greens and Bells of the world. It matters that they're on your team.
Lookin' at Hoke, its more like MuuMuu...
Sorry, couldn't help myself (but Hoke could at the buffet!)
Damn, there I go again.
You can kill a fly with your slipper or a cannon. Either way, the fly dies. -Ramzy
I have always liked 'tuoaa'
(the university of ann arbor)
The Ann Arbor Institute of Suck?
Mitten State university
"Statistics always remind me of a fellow who drowned in a river where the average depth was only three feet." - Coach Woody Hayes
I tend to agree with Hail on this debate. It doesn't matter where guys come from, so long as there good. I mean, the Ultimate Warrior came from Parts Unknown and he was awesome.
"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes
THE Ohio State University
IS awesome.
It matters greatly where the talent is coming from. When you check out rivals/espn top 300 the list is inundated with players from fla, ga, tex, cal, and ohio. When you check the players the Florida's and Alabama's of the world are recruiting from it's from those same states.
Big Ten programs that don't wake up and realize that they must recruit heavily and successfully outside the footprint of the midwest are going to get left behind.
As time goes on you will see Ohio State recruiting fewer and fewer Ohio boys. We will syphon off the very best in state and move elsewhere. Which actually makes sense when you read the current read on talent coming out of Ohio next year. It's diminishing every year because of the economic/demographic changes occuring in this state.
UFM has the ability to go get talent wherever it is, that forward thinking will get us on par with Bama soon.
I really don't think Ohio's talent is diminishing every year. Some years are just better than others. Last year's Ohio class was strong, 2012's was really good. 2014 isn't very good, but some years are just that way, every year isn't going to be better than the one before.
I agree. It is a down year for football. I just wonder if we'll ever have an up year in basketball again. Matta has to go OOS for everyone nowadays. Was Sully our last 5 star for awhile?
Ohio football talent declining? You had me until this point:
If anything more elite athletes comes from economically disadvantages families/regions.
If you have a Hoke avatar, don't complain about how someone refers to your schools. Hoke is flat out disrespectful (period), so you have no leg to stand on.
Not going to bother with the picture or Hoke name for your team. MU is just uneducated; not an insult. I told him TSUN would be a better choice, even though I'd never call Michigan that. That is also what Urban calls Michigan, which is no more or less "disrespectful" than Brady saying "Ohio."
How many comments do you see on here when a recruit says "I just visited the University of Ohio State?" It stands to be corrected.
Those who stay will be CHAMPIONS!
~Bo Schembechler
What you have so tactfully and gracefully reminded us (thank you) is that despite the
hateintense competitively dislike of the legendary Woody Hayes for That School Up North, he referred to it as such because it was a respectful and classy way to refer to a hated arch-rival. I tend to think the class with which he and Coach Schembechler handled their storied battle is a large part of the reason it is the greatest rivalry in sports, and all other rivalries pale in comparison.Wait, so it's not MU?
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Couldn't disagree more Hail, though ANDYVANCE put it better than I will. Hoke is disrespectful to another school, a school he used to coach against. Hayes, Meyer and all who refer to Michigan as TSUN or TTUN are not disrespectful to another school, and I don't think they are disrespectful to Michigan. I think it is respectful of the rivalry. Above all, at least it does not disrespect another school. Therefore, you do not have any grounds to correct an Ohio State fan on an Ohio State website (I've always respected you, but you do not in this case).
Calling Ohio State Ohio is fat and lazy, but I guess the shoe fits.
sorry to get all bent out of shape /rant
You're right, I come to 11W to call you all out every time someone makes a Hoke fat joke and calls Michigan TSUN, TTUN, Ann Arbor Community College, Missagain, Meatchicken, Beatagain, Sun and Blue, and the other 26 nicknames that float around here.
You're right though, "Ohio" probably just got started because Brady was lazy. It isn't disrespectful to OSU or OU, in my opinion.
Those who stay will be CHAMPIONS!
~Bo Schembechler
Wait a minute.....first part of post is the sarcasm font...signature is sarcasm font as well...
Does that mean....Those who stay won't be champions?
Mind.Blown.
4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off
@Hail: You missed the most popular one...scUM :-)
"It's just another case of there you are". ~ Doc (1918-2012)
Hey Hail
Who's there?
Someone who just came to 11w to say "First it's...Not MU" then later confirms that's right he comes to 11w to correct people when they don't call Michigan by the correct name, which is in sarcasm font, I guess because italics means sarcasm now too and not added emphasis and supposedly that means it is a sarcastic comment and not true except you're saying you don't do that when you actually just did do that and that's cute that it's not disrespectful in your opinion, and I'll just ignore for a minute that people of Ohio University clearly find it offensive and disrespectful, I just think it's hilarious that someone thinks that commentors on a blogsite are disrespectful and doesn't think that a public figure being quoted on articles and on TV, who offends people through the media, is not direspectful, or maybe you just put the sarcasm font in the wrong place, which is fine, I can see how you would make that mistake because you think that "Ohio" isn't lazy, and apparently Brady isn't fat and lazy because he decided to start wearing a shirt...
Context is everything.
Wait so it's not MU?
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Seems like you're losing your cool exterior dude. Don't like it when you're called out? TTUN has no right to take the high road in these arguments. Who you trying to kid?
So you are rating the level of insults vs. uneducated? And you think calling OSU Ohio isn't uneducated? It seems you want to pick and choose which insults are PC. How convenient for you.
I prefer "Michelin." But that's just me.
"Here officer, hold my beer while I find my license."
"First, it's UofM, or TSUN, even. Not MU."
LOL Idk what made me laugh harder, the hypersensitivity/butthurt over "MU" or the hypocrisy of a Walmart Wolverine calling out an OSU fan for calling scUM out of name. I would say the latter after the real Ohio beat the WWs in the NCAA tourney last year.
Wal-mart Wolverine, huh?
Those who stay will be CHAMPIONS!
~Bo Schembechler
I said before The Game this past season that one of the most important consequences of winning would be seen in recruiting. Winning that game immediately established Urban as the Alpha Dog of the B1G and enabled Urban and crew to use the 12-0 pitch to recruits which we've already heard coming from the mouths of many prospects. Losing that game, and their subsequent bowl game, put the brakes on the momentum michigan had been enjoying since Tatgate first broke. I see this next season as being critical for michigan. Clearly Hoke and company can recruit, but if 2013 starts looking more like '12 than '11, they might find themselves missing out on some of the quality recruits they've landed the last two years.
I agree. The Game this year is going to be huge for Hoke. Obviously, exponentially more if if OSU comes in undefeated. It's not out of the realm of possibility (maybe even likely) that Michigan and OSU finally end up in the B1GCG to face off two weeks in a row. That will complicate things further. At first, one might think a split would be ok for both programs, but it might be worse than it seems.
Clearly, if Michigan beat an 11-0 OSU team, that's a huge win. Huge! But, let's say that OSU wins the next week and, at worst, goes to Pasadena to play in the Rose Bowl. In all likelihood, that eliminates Michigan from a BCS bowl and puts them in the Capital One bowl vs SEC #3 (LSU, Georgia, TAMU?). Playing devil's advocate, let's assume Michigan falls in the bowl game and now sits with 2-4 losses. That's really not good for momentum.
In fact, Michigan might have to beat OSU two weeks in a row to get over the hump:
OSU beats Michigan in first Meeting; Michigan wins B1GCG. Michigan plays in Rose Bowl, while OSU ends up in Sugar/Fiesta/Orange Bowl. This is not a bad scenario but wouldn't hurt OSU's recruiting momentum at alll
Michigan loses both meetings and ends up at Capital One bowl - yikes
Michigan loses regular season meeting and doesn't make B1GCG - outside chance of BCS invite, but unlikely with current perception of B1G
Michigan beats OSU in both meetings and ends up at BCS bowl - not likely, but could shift the advantage up North.
Those who stay will be CHAMPIONS!
~Bo Schembechler
The real question is: After taking another tough loss to OSU, will Hoke man up and shake Urban's hand after the game like a good sport, or will he get all butthurt again and run off the field to cry in shame?
I do think a lot of MSU's success came from being able to land the top instate talent from Michigan while DickRod was in Ann Arbor. I'd be a little concerned if I were a Michigan fan that MSU and Ohio State have landed the better talent in a state that isn't so talent rich to begin with. Further troubling would be that Hoke's success in Ohio is what really bolstered the 2013 class, and it seems that Ohio State has most of the top talent in Ohio on lockdown right now too. Those are 2 sources of a lot of talent for Michigan, and if they are getting what's left after other programs pick off the players, well they'll have a lower rated class in 2014.
It's so early in the process though that things can change. If the roles were reversed, though, and MSU and Michigan had commits from 4 of the top 6 players in Ohio, I'd be concerned.
For MSU, are you referring to Harris and Drake? Drake wasn't offered by Michigan, and Harris isn't staying at MSU.
If Michigan gets Harris and McDowell, no one in Michigan will worry much about Webb and Marshall. If we steal one of those, say Harris, then there will be an MGOBLOG melt down.
I think at this point, it's very overstated. There is so much time left until NSD 2014, and Michigan is going to attract good players. The difference in the rivalry will be determined just how it always has - coaching and development. I know fans love to get excited about recruiting, but some people here put way too much emphasis on it.
It's the only way to engage all year long. Also, a lot of the fan base are Cleveland fans and the only way to engage as a Cleveland fan is to talk about the draft and the FA period. That might just carry over here a bit from practice ;)
So recruiting really doesn't matter? And you also seem to be saying that any discrepancy in recruiting numbers will be counteracted by the coaching and develpment they will receive at tsun as compared to OSU. Or am I wrong in what you are trying to say?
Well to be fair, this early in the process, any one of these recruits could be ranked 8 points in either direction in a year. So in a sense, the recruiting 'numbers' are fairly inconsequential, but it's safe to assume that our staff is made up of decent talent evaluators, so anyone we get now is a presumably a top choice prospect.
Of course it matters. But the talent discrepancy being recruited by OSU and Michigan right now is so small that whoever has better player development and coaching will win the game. Statistically speaking, a two or three spot difference in recruiting rankings is insignificant.
Better get used to the view ...
fantastic commenting guys, i have learned a bit from all of you in this thread, including hail. i have one question, the guy who is kentucky's coach, has stated he intends to recruit ohio hard. he did in just a few short weeks get a kid from cincinnati area and flipped one kid from nebraska who is from youngstown mooney? now what impact will mark stoops have on urban recruiting ohio (i believe minimal at best), what impact will stoops recruiting ohio have on the team up north? stoops said he is going after the number one recruit in ohio , who at this moment i am not sure who he meant?
I don't know much about Stoops or Kentucky. My guess is that Nebraska and Bo Pellini will face off with Stoops more than Urban and Hoke for kids in Youngstown area, as we have already seen at the end of the 2013 class.
Also, I assume Lattimore is the #1 Ohio guy by most services. Booker #2.
Those who stay will be CHAMPIONS!
~Bo Schembechler
He can recruit Ohio hard and not impact Ohio State in the least. He's not going to land top tier talent from Ohio. He's going to get guys who may end up at MAC schools or Purdue, but he's not going to pull guys like Burrows or Jalin from Ohio.
Weren't we the same group getting on Urban's case for letting some great talent slip out of state to UM? And how that would never happen with Tressel? Just saying, last year UM raided us and we complained a little. I think we ended up with a pretty stellar class and better talent in the same positions we lost guys at. I hope the same isn't then true this year at UM!
I can't believe people are still making this argument. Keep up. If you don't see how Hoke was able to recruit so well in Ohio last year then just butt out. You have no clue. It says little about the future of what Hoke can do in Ohio. Pay attention.
How many guys did Urban steal from Mich last year?
By future do you mean snatching Ferns, a top 100 player on most boards, from us in this class? Is that what you mean by future?
Is is recruitng season or eating season?
It's always eating season in AA...
Didn't you just post this in the funny ttun pics thread? Someone has a fovorite pic lol
Our honor Defend!
Guilty as charged. It makes me laugh every time I looked at it and wanted to share that joy with my fellow tsun haters.
So I'm just trying to clear this up, it's not MU?
Our honor Defend!
Up vote for the persistent trolling!
So wait, it's not MU?
Ok that was my last one. You know I think you're great Hail. I'm just messing around bro.
Our honor Defend!
Me?
As a die hard bucks fan,
I actually started to feel sorry for those guys, fans, coaches and players in AA.
But it's a good feeling.
Don't feel bad, I did too, but we forgot how arrogant their fan base is and how just 2 wins in 10 years can make them feel superior. Hard to imagine but true. They are really that arrogant.
There is still 12 months till signing day. It's still pretty early in the game. One of those Michigan State kids was also there for Basketball and he just dropped that sport so expect him to move.
Great, just lost half an hour of work reading this thread! Angry has a good point, imo, as it seems unusual that OSU is hitting MI recruits so hard with success. Too early for UM to be worried? That's what fan speculation is all about! It becomes alarming for them if the trend continues or if Webb and Marshall blow up the camps. While Hoke and staff have shown they can recruit good players (whether regional or national), this is a critical year for them on the field as they lost momentum this past season. While UM is listed on the short list of several top 14 recruits, OSU is on more with more favorable indicators.
I think it's just Hoke is spending too much time at the Hometown Buffet and not on his phone with these recruits. Additionally, the countries top recruits know that Ohio State is closer to ending the SEC dominance at a national title moreso than Michigan is.