It's a matter of busines vs. ethics.
Let's ask the hypothetical question and assume you're Coach Urban Meyer. Your success is predicated on your ability to win recruits and hence win games. We all know the recruiting arena is a battlefield. The strongest survive (and thrive).
Do you take advantage of someone elses misfortune (in this case: Tennessee's debt problem) in order to bolster your own program (sign Vonn Bell)? Do you make the pitch to the student and the parents that OSU is better because the programs finances are better?
Do you think this type of recruiting pitch would be perceived as OK by the media and by the public at large?
Do you think any recruit and his family (not just Vonn Bell) would be persuaded by this argument?
No you recruit classy and use a personal relationship as a solid foundation to bring high character great athlete to our university. No need to lower ourselves to other teams levels
^This.
You "set traps" for your competitors by emphasizing your strengths to the person you are trying to influence. You can do this without even mentioning your competitors name. For example, you say "Ohio State has the most solidly funded Athletic Department in College Football, while some schools are struggling with debt, we aren't and here's why that is important"....etc. You stay classy this way, but you get your point across. Nothing unethical about that, it's part of differentiating yourself from your competition. Recruits and parents need information to make the best decision......
^ this sounds like someone who has recruited for competitive employees before. when a recruiter mentions a competitor by name, they legitimize them as competition or as someone that the recruiter is striving to become. it's an art and a science.
The Haslams and Peyton Manning can make that debt disappear at anytime. I don't think UT is worried about a debt problem.
On top of this, there will be some other UT athletic squads cutting corners before it affects the football team. This is the SEC.
Naw - Peyton has all his money in Papa Johns franchises and Haslam will be pouring money into the Browns for quite a while.....
The more general question to ask would be, how do you feel about negative recruiting?
Let other people negatively recruit for you. I'm sure other schools are saying things about other school so you shouldn't have to.
Negative recruiting is NOT the way to go. It is important that the recruits and families know not only the strengths of the schools but their cultures. Every campus has a unique atmosphere and 'feel', with some students more comfortable with a given culture than others (and not just the football cultures). While I see through my scarlet and gray colored glasses that tOSU is the best option for everyone, some excellent programs will 'fit' while others will not. Beyond that, I have such low respect for a handful of coaches that I am surprised they get any recruits at all.
Urban has the uncanny ability to connect with both recruits and their families. He wants the kids to look around and take visits before committing so that they understand what they are committing to. And with 17-18 year-olds, this is still an inexact science. Maybe this is why watching this game is so interesting.
What do you think Tennessee would do?
"You win with people." - Woody Hayes
Agreed, the successful recruiter sells the recruit on fitting the programs advantages to the needs/wants of the student.
Do you want to win championships? UFM has 2 in the last 5 years...OSU has one 1 and been to two others in the last 10 years.... and we have x championships overall.... you do want to play for a title contender right son?
Player thus draws indirect inference that Tennessee has not, Oregon has not ... and "ole left mitten" certainly has not seen the light in some time :-) either !
Fact based comparisons can also be made about statisitcis for the football majors vs Michgian football majors etc... which shows that OSU academics are for real (we've seen the picture of the comparison boards at the WHAC.)
etc and so forth.
"Statistics always remind me of a fellow who drowned in a river where the average depth was only three feet." - Coach Woody Hayes
I don't care if Urban went there but if he had too go there, then there is some serious problems going on! I don't actually think a recruit cares or not that UT is financially in crisis. Not like the University will shut down in the next 4 years while he could be there. So what would he care?
I would like to think Urban has much better tricks up his sleeve.
Agreed and you make the same point I was going to. Tennessee will field a team for years to come. This is not an issue that will affect one of their biggest money makers...Big time college football.
Urban shouldn't need to bring this up...it's not like the schools debt is going to affect a scholarship football player in a major way.
I don't think it's necessary to even bring this up. Besides, I could be wrong, but I think a lot of kids and parents get turned off by negative recruiting tactics. My guess is that Meyer doesn't even need to bring up other schools by name in order to get his point across with a kid. He only needs to express what opportunities coming to OSU could provide that he believes are above and beyond what any other school could offer.
You have to be very careful in this area. It's a matter of building yourself up vs. tearing down the other program. Most recruits don't want to hear about how awful another school is. Ohio State has enough going for it that you can build up the program, the school, staff, players, etc, and you don't have to acknowledge the other programs. In fact it almost works better when you don't mention the other program as if they're not important enough to really talk about.
Just a life long Buckeye fan wanting to talk to other lifelong Buckeye fans. Our honor defend, we will fight to the end for OOO HIIII OOOOOO!
Not only NO but HELL NO. Something like this always comes back to bite you in the rearend. tOSU has the name, the talent, and right coaches. We were what 6-7 the year before and if you look at the standings we were the only team without a loss. Meyer and the staff have way too many other tools to sell the program without stooping to "lawyer" ambulance chasing tactics. Sell the points on how many of our guys go pro; how many Heisman winners we have; how big our fan base is. Remember the recruiting letter from PSU? Yeah look how that turned out.
What the hell does an 18 year old high school student care about a university's debt problem?
the parents do, and they often make the decisions for the alleged "student-athlete"
Okay. What the hell does a parent care about a university's debt problem?
Easy - mommy and daddy want the best for their precious moneybags so that they get to retire early after cashing in on the golden genetic lottery ticket that they made.
whatever increases their chances. hell, Cam Newton's dad was willing to pay straight cash homey for that investment...
Dude you got it the other way around, Cam Newton's dad got PAID straight cash homey! Daddy didn't pay anyone anything!
So what you are saying is that because UT is having financial issues that they can't afford to pay Vonn Bell his "signing bonus" like other Universities can?
Now we are treading major water with this idea and again Urban won't touch it with a 10 ft pole!
Just a thought, are you Dumpus the same person as the OP? The way you were arguing this its as if you are sticking up for your original thought in the OP. Just wondering.
OSU's Athletic Department Debt is around $180 million.
Difference is that OSU athletic department is in the black, is self funded, and contributes to the university's general fund. Much of the debt is, if I recall correctly, for capital expenses like the overhaul of the Shoe a few years ago, and the current overhaul of the Schott. I don't believe that Tennessee is in the same situation, as a good chunk of their debt is to pay former coaches.
Regardless, it should not be brought up by OSU coaches, it isn't necessary. OSU has so many positives, that's where the focus should be.
Not only is it unnecessary, but also very unlikely to help in recruiting, no matter how low you're willing to go. Case in point - do you really think the argument you made about OSU Athletic Dept debt vs UT Athletic Dept debt would resonate with a football recruit? Because I think, long before you are done explaining, the recruit will come away with "They tried to badmouth UT for having huge debt, but they didn't tell me they had debt just as big. Effing liars. I'm outta here."
Oh, and I have no idea how sound the argument is either. Finances of any university, and especially of the flagship university of any state, are extremely complicated. A single number like the size of nominal debt of a department is completely uninformative. Nor is it likely to affect a recruit in any way. They'll cut into student food and dorm funding before they cut into the football budget - and please don't kid yourself, that doesn't just apply to the SEC.
I agree. Ohio State has the revenue to not just pay down this debt but to aggressively pay down the debt. I think the money was wisely spent.
Maybe think about it if Tenn. And not bama was our main comp.
No way, bad mouthing always works against you in sales
No.
I choooossse Business Ethicssss...
If you are using the 200 million dollar debt as a recruiting tool......I have 2 things to say..............All a student athlete cares about is the fact he/ she is going to play where they want to play and probably isn't too worried about the financial end of it. Secondly since its now come to light (in another post) Ohio State is almost 180 million dollars in debt as well . So thats really not an advantage
Battles are sometimes won by generals; wars are nearly always won by sergeants and privates. Football is no different, the guys down in the trenches win the games, not the coach.