So we get WR Corey Smith who is a 4-star and we have now apparently fallen from 2nd in the Composite only behind Bama to 4th behind Bama, Florida, and now (get this) Michigan. WTF?!
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TTUN lost a commit as well, but they picked up Green. Overall, they are better today than the last rankings. I don't know who Flroida picked up though. Must have been someone that more than overcomes losing Hearns.
Michigan split ways with Denzel Ward---Class of 2014. Has no impact on 2013 rankings.
Those who stay will be CHAMPIONS!
~Bo Schembechler
My mistake. thanks for the heads up.
m*ch*g*n got derrick green and an OL....that will definitely boost them more than a 4* JUCO guy for us. if we get bell and wilson we may rejump tsun, but that green pickup was HUGE for them
honestly all I care about is the on field play........I could give a rat's butt about where recruiting services think we are ranked
Battles are sometimes won by generals; wars are nearly always won by sergeants and privates. Football is no different, the guys down in the trenches win the games, not the coach.
These rankings are a good indication of what will come of our onfield play. If one cares about indications of the future, this is a good place to start to understand how much talent we have coming in. NC teams are predominently teams with several top 5 and top 10 recruiting classes the previous 3-4 years. Not EVERY one, but most of them. It is clear that these recruiting services have a good way of indicating over time who has the best talent and therefore the best play on the field. Of course, you still need great coaches to pull that talent together, check one for OSU, and Urban will have several top 5 recruiting classes to improve our talent, check two. All indications of our on field play in the next few years are in tip top shape.
I would respectfully disagree about recruting services being an indicator of future success. For instance, USC is awful, The U never materialized to anything after January 3, 2003 in spite of great recruiting, and the last 5 years has seen Florida State in the Top 5 recruiting rankings but the best accomplishment they have is bowl wins over inferior opponents. Texas' last 4 years is another example of great recruiting but a record on the field that doesn't match up.
On the flip side there are schools like Wisconsin, Boise St, and TCU who rarely attract 5 star players but for the last decade have been consistent top 15 teams.
I understand that the best programs get the most 4 and 5 star kids, but one should also consider that most of those players come from the south and California. Thus, the majority of them will stay closer to home, which incidentally is the SEC, who aside from Bielema, has some of the best coaches in CFB who can develop the talent even further and make runs at multiple championships.
Talent development is the cornerstone of sucess in college football. But in order to develop a player's talent he has to have some.
If you look at my post I noted that talent level is one side of the coin an a good indication of the talent available to then be molded by a coach into success. Alabama under Sban has been on of the best ever at doing both, but put Saban back at MSU and I can think we both agree he doesn't bring in the same recruiting class rankings each year, which means he has a lower level of talent on the team, which means his success will be lesser than that of Alabama. He will go from national championship contendor every year to Big Ten championship + BCS bowl game every year.
I made sure I noted coaching as being the final piece of the puzzle, but the statement was that "recruiting rankings don't matter" so I did focus on that. USC is a prime example of great recuits year in year out, great success, and then all you do is change the coach and suddenly that success goes way down. You still need a coach to bring it all together and anyone who thigns that Kiffen is that guy is obviously wrong. Same with some of those other places you mentioned, bad coaching. Frankly you put me in at coach and give me all the 5 star talent and I am sure Urban would kick my butt with Mount Vernon's football team.
But we are not talking about that large of a difference in coaching ability. We are talking about how does a good program become great. You need #1 the talent and #2 the coach. Saban was NOT great at MSU yet he is one of the best coaches of all times. He needed the talent (and you can see that in the recruiting rankings) to build the dynasty he has built. Talent means everything and it means nothing all at the same time depending on the coach you got. But it is niether solely the coach nor the players, it is both, meaning they both matter.
Steensn wrote:
First off, even if you're right, your point does not suggest that it matters whether Ohio State finishes with the second best composite recruiting ranking and Michigan with the fourth, or vice versa. Both would satisfy your criteria either way - i.e., in the "top 5 and top 10" for successive years.
But it's also too strong to suggest that the rankings are a "good indication" of what will come of onfield play and/or predict national champions. Being among the higher rated recruiting classes has been a prerequisite of sorts (a necesary but insufficent step) for winning a NC, but it does not really predict high levels of on-field success. Programs like FSU, UGA, Tenn, Miami FL, and Michigan had very strong recruiting classes over the last 5-7 years, but mediocre on-field results. More recently, Texas has underperformed according to their recruiting rankings. Meanwhile, Utah, Boise, and TCU were right on the cusp of winning NCs (and some argue might have lacked fair access) despite having low-rated recruiting classes over the years, while Oregon had so-so rated classes.
I have been VERY clear it is a combination of talent and coaches, not sure why things are being taken out of context. I was actually very clear it doesn't matter whether one is #2 or #4 other than bragging rights here and now. Maybe you missed some of my other post in this thread. I was very clear that things like top 5 and 10 matters, not exactly where you are in that bin.
No sweat. I was responding to your initial comment, but it sounds like you've helpfully clarified things.
It is really strange since I checked our rank soon after the Corey Smith commit and OSU was 3rd. Then tonight UM passes us by some math magic.
I watch the rankings often. We were at two and there is some calculations that are flipping Florid and OSU because of how close we are for #2 and #3. Remember that this is a composite ranking meaning they run statistical algorithms every so often based on all the sites rankings at that time. One small change, like a guy going from a 94 to 95 rating or something else with cause a ripple effect on all the rankings.
But, immediatly after they added Smith, we dropped a solid two points and by this morning we lost more than 5 points pushing us to 5th now. They clearly have a problem in their system that needs fixed that they will probably look into and fix. Brand new system, will always need bugs worked out of it.
And...we are back to 4th in the composite rankings. Michigan is just ahead of us by one-half point. I expect we will top them again by NSD.
We will be back to #2 after they fix their ratings system bug.
Even better.
Something got readjusted because it says OSU at 3 for me. Not sure if we can catch Florida unless Wilson and Bell jump on.
Yep. They must have readjusted in the past 5 mins. They must have caught wind that the posters at 11W were not satisfied with their system.
dont want to upset the 'mongol horde'
Recruiting class rankings mean nothing. We were ranked#1 in 2009 by Scout. 12 of those 25 players either flunked out, transferred or took a medical hardship. The best you can expect is that 2 o 3 will become all-americans. 8 or 9 of them will have solid careers with a potential shot at the Nfl. A few will be career back ups.A few may either never play due to injury or just not good enough. And at least 4 or 5 will end up transferring.
A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men
As stated above, they do mean something, but definitely the difference between 2nd and 4th is miniscule. If you have a top 5 class every year, you are very likely to have a top 5-10 team every year as well.
Unless you are USC or Texas. They have top ten talent but aren't measuring up on the field. that is a prime example of not knowing what to do with what you got.
or Florida State.
Clemson is honorable mention
To be fair, SC is definitely a top five team over the last ten years. They have one BCS and two AP titles, a number of Rose Bowl victories, and beat us twice in that span.
They do matter, but so does coaching. It's always a combo of talent and coaching, always. Individual classes may fail or shine, but the point is that having several top 5 classes in a row absolutely means you hav a higher level of talent than those that don't. That gives you the base to work with, then you need a coach.
anyone who says class rankings don't matter is incorrect. That specific class ranking won't define that class, but over several classes it will correlate to team talent.
We are slowly creeping back up and points are being added back in. Being a software guy I love to see this bug...
They fixed it (I think). tOSU is currently 3rd, behind bama and florida. ttun is 4th. Now, if we can land another 2-3 highly ranked guys ...
http://ohiostate.247sports.com/
Not fixed until we are #2. We were at 770 or higher before Smith signed, with daily tweaks of +-.5 points pushing us to #3 and back and forth with Florida (with no recruiting or ranking changes). The addition of Smith would solidify us at 770-771, hence it still being an issue they have to resolve. We should be the solid #2 regardless of minor calculation fluxuations.
Who is to say that it wasn't broken when we were #2 and it's fixed now?
I said that over an hour ago, see below ;)
Interesting, maybe the original bug was putting OSU up at #2 ;) I guess we'll see!
Just amazed how USC can stay near the top even with everything that's happened.
"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.
Have you seen their class though??? Even with the defections they have 6 rivals 5 star and 8 rivals 4 stars. I've never seen a class with 6 five stars on Rivals.
That's the part that amazes.
"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.
Just wait until next year we will get to see that kind of class pledging scarlet and grey!!
Funny how recruiting services all have different rubrics for evaluating talent, giving results such as a team being ranked #1 by one service and #10 by another. But it is clear that recruiting classes can be grouped by tiers, so I agree with the comment by STEENSN a couple up the thread about being top 5. Thin-slicing the differences may be semantics, and coaching + talent + infrastructure = success.
Yeahh, that is what is great about the composite rankings, it is an average of the top 4 recuiting services. And as long as you are not splitting hairs on being #1 or #4 and thinking of it as an indication of overall talent across a few classes you see a very statistically clear trend in success verses recruiting class talent ranking.
Not every service can give each recruit the time necessary to properly evaluate them. 247 doesnt even have a guy on the west coast evaluating talent full time. There is obvious bias, as well different qualifications for ranking. 247 ranks by NFL potential, not college potential so thhey are going to put more of a premium on size and intangeables. A DE might be a college star at 6'1" but will likely not be at the next level. He'll be ranked lower because of that, yet he could be the key piece to a NC team. That is why looking at it from a higher level to judge overall talent level is the best way to judge the on the field impact of these ranking.
It is still fun to discuss the individual ranking and team ranking though IMO.
Listen, we see the Kentucky Derby each year here in Louisville! The horses will change position quite often during the race, but only at the end does it matter.
Sorry but I don't really care what the rank is right now!
Wait till Feb 6th folks...no need to worry
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."
"I love football. I think it is most wonderful game in world and I despise to lose."
Woody Hayes 1913 - 1987
The rankings can be important, but the difference between 1 and 4 is really not that significant. If Ohio State finishes with a top 5 composite, with this coaching staff it's going to translate to on field success. That's all that I really care about, it's going to be a great class, and I don't much care if some dudes say it's the best in the country or the 3rd best or 4th. It's irrelevent.
Very true, but it is fun to chat about. It is a small victory to be able to say you "out reccruited" X team (in this case I'm thinking UM). So if Mich is #5 and we are #4, it is a good feeling to claim a meaningless victory and rub it in.
I agree, to me, with 3 or 4 less commits than Michigan (knowing these services value number of recruits) finishing 1 spot below them is still a victory. Finishing 1 or 2 ahead of them with fewer recruits is nice too! If Bell signs on with the good guys, it's irrelevant though, the Buckeye class will definitely be higher than the Wolverines with Bell on board.
I'll take a win over UM in anything...no matter how meaningless.
Now we are 6th ;)
FWIW- we are now 2nd in 247. Bama, tOSU, Flor, ttun, nd.
http://247sports.com/Board/30/247-Composite-Team-points-calculations-159...
sounds like they fixed the original bug.
Looks like Ole Miss has a chance to come out of no where and not just finish strong but finish #1!
We are a commanding #2 is the composite rankings now. Not sure how other schools will finish, but it seems we could stay #2 without anymore. Bell I'm sure would lock us in at #2, there is no catching Bama.
Alabama just picked up another 5 star (Reuben Foster, wonder what he will do with that tat ;) ) putting even farther away the possibility of anyone taking them at the #1 spot.