NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, MLS, EPL, you name it. Talk about it here.
I am all in if it brings us the Hardware
I think the Buckeyes will win the first playoff it they win the first playoff.
I hope it brings a championship, but I think this is a little too pricy... why not see what you have with Wiggins, Irving, and James 1st. Granted the next 1st round pick will not be worth that much because Irving, Love, and James will be at the top of the east but couldn't we have waited until the end of the year and picked up Love in free agency? I also hope this was a sign and trade deal where we can get him locked in for a few years and not get Boozer'd again.
I agree that I would've played hardball with the TWOLVES in an attempt to not give up Wiggins.
OTOH, we kept the Memphis pick and didn't have to take on Martin's contract. We'll have lots of flexibility next offseason, so I can't hate the move, either.
Nothing like bringing in a guy that averages over 19 PPG and 12 RPG to add to your team - completely geeked
Call me disappointed. I really wanted to see Wiggins play for the Cavs.
I understand the need to have a powerful force in the center, but I think Wiggins is the better long term move and helps provide insurance in case LeBron gets hurt.
I just hope the Cavs have enough defense to make this work.
Completely understand what you're saying however we need to win now and not in 3 to 4 to 5 years. I think Love gives us the best chance at that right now
My understanding is that the Cavs HAD to do it this year because next year they wouldn't the salary cap space to make it happen and I'm with you guys. We need to win now!
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here its a war room
you know what, I thought this was a dumb move long term, but as a Toronto Raptors fan (don't ask) I am happy about this because I bet Wiggins won't last another contract in Minnesota and will want to come home to Canada like Lebron did.
Wiggins to Toronto in 2017, bank it!
I think Love can help Lebron win a championship, but I thought Wiggins would have helped Lebron win 3-4 championships. I don't see Lebron, Love and Irving having a run like that without another change at some point.
I saw a UFO once.......it told me to have a goodyear!
on the one hand, one really is all that is hoped for here. clevelanders are not hoping for 3-4. so if love helps to win one, well that would be considered a 10000% success by any measure.
on the other hand, i agree in order to make a run there would probably need to be another change. and there will be very little flexibility to make that change with Kyrie, Love, and Bron all on max contracts.
lesson, better hope they get that one championship.
Love is proven and Wiggins is not.... Thats not to say Wiggins wont be a good player, but you know what you have in KL now. Long term you can find another Wiggins role player through F/A, Trades or Draft.
Yeah, well…that’s just like, your opinion, man.
Love is proven and Wiggins is not.
Neither have proven anything in the playoffs.
"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.
It appears that KL will prove more in the playoffs than Wiggins will for the foreseable future now. So once again I'll take what's known than unknown.
You don't really know what you're going to get from him in the playoffs.
The point was he will be in the playoffs and Wiggins will not.
People said the same sort of thing about KG in the playoffs before he went to Boston...
"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts." - Winston Churchill
KG made it to the playoffs 8 times in Minnesota. Love hasn't sniffed the playoffs once.
I am not understanding what your point is.... Love did his part in Minnesota, them not making the playoffs is not solely his fault. Basketball is still a team sport. The NBA is full of All-stars w/out playoff experience doesn't mean they wouldn't make your team better in the end if you got them.
True. However, I guess my point was that many said KG wasn't an elite player b/c he couldn't even get out of the first round. IMO, it's similar to alleging that Love is not that great because he hasn't made the playoffs. The conference is much better than it was during KG's days in Minnesota, and the roster around Love was much worst.
Are you also willing to say that Kyrie hasn't proven very much?
b/c he couldn't even get out of the first round.
He went to the WCF in '04(the season he won the MVP).
BuckeyesVsTheWorld: I agree with most of your arguments, but don't this one. It's basketball. They run up and down the court, jump, pass, shoot, and rebound. They don't have time to "get in their own heads" and choke, etc. Love will be the same high-caliber player in the playoffs as he is in the regular season.
If he were a golfer that won the Greater Hartford Open six times and now he's playing in the U.S. Open, we might not know whether he can hold up under the glare, but he'll be just fine in the playoffs.
hey don't have time to "get in their own heads" and choke, etc. Love will be the same high-caliber player in the playoffs as he is in the regular season.
Lets take James Harden for example. Had a very good regular season. Some were arguing he was the best SG in the league. When it came playoff time, he was terrible. If he had played like he did in the regular season, Houston likely sweeps Portland.
FIND another Wiggins?!?! Good luck...
Good luck with what? He has yet to play a meaningful NBA game and yet you are going to say no one better or just as good will come around. I'll stick with my comment
Found him..he wears 23. However we did just add an elite 6'11 player who can score and rebound better than all but like 4 players....
"A byrd in hand - is worth ten flye at large"
A medieval saying that I believe means Kevin Love is a proven commodity now
Cavs are going all in now. I don't mind it, just hope it doesn't blow up in their face.
It's Cleveland....Of course it will blow up in their face
So Wiggins and Bennett will lead Minnesota to a NBA championship?
Probably - this is Cleveland, and Cleveland, it seems, is cursed
A long-suffering Browns fan (is there any other kind?)
I really love the addition of K-Love, but I too really wanted to see Wiggins grow under LeBron's wings. I hope he has a good career in Minnesota, but I can't help but feel he would have been better off in Cleveland. Bring on the rings. #brownstothesuperbowl
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."
Nice hashtag Toledo - Hey how's the water - you OK?
I am alive lol. Luckily I was in NC moving my gf. So I missed all of it. We have a bunch of bottled water laying around my apartment now... Maybe I should find a use for it all. Any suggestions?
Give it to others that don't have any extra
save the bottled water. The algae bloom will be worse in August and September. They just "fixed" the machine for Toledo. I would be highly surprised if something does not occur before then.
Not only Wiggins, but Bennet too plus the Cav's 2015 1st round draft pick, for a guy who only has a year left on his contract???
Yeesh ..... Surprised they didn't throw LeBron in there too.
I'm sure Love will sign the extension as soon as they are able to offer it to him
I'm sure Love will sign the extension as soon as they are able to offer it to him
Just say no to italics abuse.
I have no doubt Love will sign an extension assuming the trade goes through. My point about his current contract though was, to me at least, it didn't give Minnesota much leverage since they were likely to lose him next season anyway.
This is a not a fair comparison. I get it, it was probably for humor, but I have heard this 100 times the last 24 hours.
Boozer left an average Cavs team for MUCH more money than the Cavs were willing to give him and was coming off a smallish second round contract.
Love would have to take a significant pay cut ( and PR nightmare) to leave the LeBron led, championship contending, super team.
It is reported that Love is going to sign a long-term deal with the Cavs.
Before the draft Embid was the Cavs first choice until he got injred, Bennet was not good and the Cavs have Miami's 1st rd pick which will most likely be higher than the Cav's pick next year. So really they got rid of Wiggin's that was worth something and you can find his replacement next season.
Not that it matters alot but we traded Miamis pick, not ours. We still have ours plus Memphis pick next year.
I am fine with this if it's true that he has agreed to sign a 5 year extension next year. There is just no way to ever know if Wiggins is going to turn out a superstar. If they have LBJ, Love, and KI for a 6 year run, there could be multiple championships. I love Wiggins too, but at some point you have to play for now.
The rumor is that they are not giving up the Heat or Memphis pick. That means they could go into next offseason with LBJ, Love, KI, and two top 20 picks.
6 years from now is a long time for love and Lebron with big contracts to limit who else you bring in. The cavs are playing for the now. If they win a championship I wouldn't be surprised but more than 1 or 2 over that time period would be extremely surprising to me.
They will still have 10.5 Mill Non guaranteed to work with. People will also take discounts to play with these three. LBJ is the best athlete in the world, I would be surprised if sees a major decline before 35. I would also be surprised if they only won 1 with this core.
Everyone bitched when the Cavs didn't get anyone to play around LeBron. They now have two players better than ANY ONE player that LeBron ever played with during his first stint with Cleveland.
Couldn't we say that Irving and Love are better than what he had in Miami? Wade's age and health is an issue and KL > Bosh
Eh, we may be able to say that in a couple of years. Irving still needs to prove that he can stay healthy and we still haven't seen how he or Love performs in the playoffs. Wade and Bosh were quite formidable when they won their two championships.
The benefit of having James and Love could reduce Irving's need to have to make every play and lessen the likelyhood of injury in theory.
Lets get this started, not sure I agree with what the Cavs gave up, but I hope my mind is changed when the season kicks off.
Lebron isn't getting any younger. They need to put themselves in a position to win now and not wait for anyone to grow up.
Yep. We lost the luxury of planning for the future and developing young talent the moment LeBron said he was coming back. I am pretty sure no one would turn down that trade-off.
Rumor is Love is signing a five year extension, so they're trading six years of service of Wiggins, plus Bennett and a pick for six years of service from Love. Plus, not taking on any dead money in the deal. Yes, I was holding out hope that Wiggins wouldn't be included in the package, but the long-term extension (assuming it happens) makes it easier to digest. All in all, I think it's fair to say Cleveland won the offseason.
Who cares about an extension. They guy wants to come to Cleveland. You hold out if you are Cleveland. He is a freaking free agent after this year and worst case you sign him next year and get to keep Wiggins.
Also, it will make the Wolves desperate to get something for Love, so you may be able to trade for him during the season for less. And again, keep Wiggins.
Especially once the Wolve's would have been out of the playoff race, their leverage would evaporate.
The Cavaliers wouldn't have had enough money to sign him as a free agent. They needed to get his bird rights if they wanted to sign him. Now they can clear the space to sign him by having his rights and adding more years.
i cant upvote yet, but +1.....the most critical comments seem to be this but they couldnt afford him
Way to much given up by the Cavs for Love N Kisses. Give the Wolves Bennet, Varejeo and a 1st round pick, not Wiggens! Win now,win now bullshit. They could win it all this year without UCLA's pride and joy. I'm bummed!
" It's real good whatcha done Anthony, real good ! "
You think Minnesota would take that deal? First things first...Varejao ia a banger no doubt. Tough and solid down low as a defender and rebounder. But he isnt a scorer. Hes also one of Lebrons good friends. Doesnt work for either team. Now if they added Thompson, that woukd probably work. But Lebron has already mentioned he likes TTs game and looks forward to playing with him. Plus he has a lot of upside the Cavs dont want to lose.
I wouldn't make the trade for one proven player cause if he goes down for the season, your fucked. I love me some Tristen, but waiters is a ball hog and forces shots and Varejao is a scrappy spaz that can't score. like you said, Lebron and Varejao are bestest buds so he's a lifer. No patience in Cleveland and I understand it being a Phoenix Suns fan, but trading away two 1st overall picks is just insane and dosen't secure the teams future. Larry Nance agrees with Anthony! LOL
Full disclosure I'm a bulls fan however I still enjoy the cavs. I was disappointed when I heard this because of the lack of wiggins, ki and Lebron playing together and particularly the former two for a long period of time.
While I understand people want to win now, but my question to Cleveland fans is this. If Cleveland wins one championship over the next 6 years and towards the end of that time for another long period of mediocrity would it be worth it? Does it depend on how wiggins turns out, or is the prospect of a championship too good to turn down?
Its been 50 years. Yes , 1 will be SOOOOO worth it.
I really wanted to see Love come to Cleveland but I didn't want them to give up Wiggins to do it. I really wanted to see Wiggins develop under the tutelage of Lebron.
The people in Minnesota are pretty happy about this trade.
They should be. They got what they wanted. I think Cleveland panicked.
I don't think they panicked. They could have waited until next year and signed Love and not given up anything. But I am assuming that they figured that the opportunity cost of waiting and not being a contender this year was greater than the cost of giving up what they gave up.
I don't think waiting for next year was an option because of cap ramifications. I just think they were bidding against themselves and could've crafted a deal that did not include Wiggins if they had called Minnesota's bluff.
Cleveland lost all leverage when LeBron said he wanted Love. Once that was known that Cavs had nothing to bargin with really.
Its also been stated Kevin Love made it known that he would like to be in Cleveland and sign long term if he was dealt there. Minnesota knew they were losing him either way...so they stuck to their guns when it came to what the price would be. I dont think Cleveland lost any leverage...I just think Minnesota made it clear what they wanted and wouldnt accept less. Better to do it now and get it done than wait and have something happen with Wiggins or have another team throw together a package they liked better.
I also hate trading Wiggins for Love, but seeing some of Wiggin's shooting numbers from the summer league (wasn't he 1 for 10 from 3 point range?) makes me feel a bit better about this. I also forgot that Love is 25; it's not like the window is only 3 years. Who knows, maybe Lebron can make Dion focus and we still have a young 2 guard who, at one point, was compared to D-Wade. The question is whether we will be able to re-sign Thompson and Dion with Kyrie, Lebron and Love already on max contracts. My guess is no, but who can we trade them for when the time comes??
I'd rather have Wiggins honestly. I think that adding Love still does not make them better than the Thunder or Spurs. It probably gets them out of the East, but for the future, I was hoping they'd keep Wiggins. However, they were clever enough to lure LeBron back, so I won't question the move for now. High risk, high reward.
Consider this - The Cavs essentially just used TWO #1 overall picks and an additional 1st rounder on Love.
I'm assuming that Love will sign an extension as part of the deal. I do like the idea of Irving, LeBron, and Love as The New Big Three, with Waiters and Thompson in the wings, but am just not sure how long term that could be. We'll see, and I hope it is immensely successful for a city that desperately wants a championship and needs some positive news.
I'm excited right now but also kind of sad. I really wanted to see Wiggins play for the Cavs. He seems like a great guy and he is a really explosive player.
Cavs are putting together a great roster. Kevin and Lebron are the 2 best players at their position in the league. Kyrie is a top 3 PG in the league and will only get better in Blatt's offense and surrounded by all this talent. Dion has serious talent, and with Lebron mentoring him now, I expect him to be an all-star within the next 2 seasons.
SG-Dion, Mike Miller, Ray Allen
SF-Lebron, Shawn Marion
PF- Kevin Love, Tristan Thompson, Dwight Powell
C- Varejao, Haywood (Love and Thompson will get mins here too)
Don't see anybody stopping this lineup. Great mix of youth and veteran leadership.
Kyrie is a top 3 PG in the league
Not top 3 yet.
I would say that right now he is sixth behind Westbrook, Paul, Parker, Curry, and Rose. But he easily has top 3 talent. I think he is more talented than any PG in the league other than Westbrook.
Kyrie has the talent, but I don't know if he's better than Mike Conley Jr. ,Damian Lillard, or John Wall either. He's definitely in the midst of the conversation tough, especially coming off an ASG MVP.
Between goals and achievement is discipline and consistency. That fire you have inside to do whatever you love is placed there by God. Now go claim it. ~ Denzel Washington
I'll give you Paul.
Parker is 75 years old. Westbrook is great, but a head case. Rose was last healthy in the late 80's.
Look at some of the names Kyrie has been playing with. This year is going to show him fully weaponized. Top 3 for certain.
Westbrook is not a head case. He is just a very emotional player on the court. He is what Kyrie needs to become, a guy who brings it every night on both offense and defense. Westbrook even averages 6 rebounds per game.
They have to address the Center position though. AV cannot be relied on to play every game, and they could really use a rim protector. I hope they can use those expiring contracts that they didn't include in the Love deal for a rim protector.
We have some expiring contracts from the Felix trade we can flip for a backup center
When did Ray Allen and Shawn Marion join the team?
Although I am somewhat bummed, this has been an incredible turn around. Our roster blows away anything the Heat were able to piece together.
This is probably an understatement but the value of playing with LeBron will help every single player on that roster immensely. Waiters and Irving need to get some tape on how D Wade played off of LeBron and study it until they have it memorized!! What helps them is that they are better long range shooters than D Wade so they will get a lot of open looks. Love will be super efficient with his scoring now and he will eat up the boards on both ends. Andy will play to his strengths and Miller will bomb out from the 3 while playing solid D and hustling. The main thing in play here is the coach. He needs to construct a system that will utilize everybody's skills while letting LeBron be the focal point. Once they get the kinks worked out, that team is going to be really good. Which is probably another understatement!
What is really interesting is how Cleveland can actually continue to build the next two years. They of course have their own picks but also Miami's and Memphis' picks (partially restricted). I know they are giving up one of their picks with the Love deal but they could still have 2 first round picks next year to add some players to the roster.
Cleveland Cavaliers: Receives Miami’s 2015 first-round pick (top-10 protected through 2017) via the Lebron James trade on 7/9/10. Receives Memphis’ 2015 first-round pick (top-5 protected, 15-30 protected in 2015-16, top-5 protected in 2017-18, unprotected in 2019) via the Jon Leuer trade on 1/22/13.
Aww shit, Cavs going all in now.
tOSU class of 2009, College of Arts and Sciences
I think to really understand why this is such a great trade for the Cavs you have to look at the pieces already in place. Kyrie and LeBron are best with the ball in there hands. They both want to penetrate and dish or finish. They need shooters to pass to. Wiggins is not a great shooter. He is a freak athlete that can finish at the rim and plays great defense.
Love is a great shooter, has a post up game, rebounds well and throws a great outlet pass. He also sets a solid pick for pick and rolls or pick and pops. Not a great defender but I am sure LeBron will help him with that aspect of his game.
Love is a perfect fit. They are getting a 25 year old player who is not only an all star but an Olympian for an unproven rookie who may or may not turn out to be a great player
This. I don't understand how any Cavs fans could not like this trade. Yes, Wiggins has potential, but Kevin Love is the best PF in the game. The guy averaged 26 and 12, was a positive defensive presence (people who say he's awful on defense don't know shit about basketball, he gave up .72 points per possession last season, which was 43rd in the entire league, hardly bad), and was one of the most efficient players in the NBA last year. He's a Moses Malone clone with a better jumper. He provides the Cavs with an elite stretch 4 that will clear the paint, providing Irving, Waiters and LeBron with lanes for driving the net. The Cavs are going to be an offensive juggernaut if these reports are legitimate. Who do you guard? Irving, Love or LeBron? Because there isn't a single team in the NBA that can guard all three of those guys at the same time, not without opening up lanes/opportunities for guys like Waiters, Miller, Varejao or Thompson.
Also, a good statistical analysis of the Cavs adding LeBron and Love, and the impact it should have. http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/what-cleveland-would-look-like-with-lebron-james-and-kevin-love/
The Cavs paid a steep price, but if they have a semi-guarantee that Love will sign a longer-term agreement, it's probably a good deal for them.
Keep in mind that a lot of NBA lottery picks don't become high-caliber players. This analysis from 2013 shows that picks 1 -3 (like Wiggins) become All-Stars only about half the time and then the numbers drop steeply thereafter.
Kevin Love is a proven high-caliber commodity.
I want waiters traded. A shooting guard who can't shoot and can't guard. I would much rather see someone at sg who can pass and play d. Waiters has not shown anything in his time. Trade him and get someone who doesn't need the ball and isn't closing in on retirement like Miller, Allen, or Marion.
Always prepare for and expect victory, don't brace for defeat. If defeat happens learn and never let it happen again.
Waiters is a perfectly good SG. He has a higher FG% than Bradley Beal, although his 3PT FG% is a little lower.
Beal-Waiters comparison: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtRfl7hCcAABsVt.png:large
Waiters has shown a lot of promise so far in his career. I don't know what you are talking about.
Honestly, just irrational popping off at the mouth. Tried to be funny and failed. All in all I'm just really concerned with this potential starting lineup's defensive ability. You can win the East with so-so D, you aren't going to win the title that way. Love I'm not worried, Dion and Kyrie's,defense scare the crap out of me.
This is a no-brainer. Wiggins was a very good freshman last year, but a 25-12 guy in the NBA is on another level.
I am happy because this creates an amazing "Big 3." In the abstract the trade is worth it. However, I am a little miffed because it seems like Minnesota got quite a bit for having so little leverage. A week ago, reports were that Love said he'd only extend in Cleveland. In that scenario, other teams aren't clamoring to trade away pieces for a rental. Not only do the Cavs give up Wiggins but last year's number 1 too? Plus a pick? For a guy that was going to walk from the 'Wolves?
There's this theory floating around here that Chicago is the best team in the East and simply put I just don't see it. Even before this trade, Cleveland inserted itself into the conversation of best team in the conference. This helps them, clearly. As much as Wiggins might be something Love IS something. If Rose can come back %100 there is no reason to think Cleveland and Chicago won't be meeting in the ECF but I refuse to think the Bulls can stop LeBron enough to win 4 out of 7 times, no matter how much of a maestro Thibs is.
Should be a good season for the Cavs.
Do I come off as arrogant? Shame on me, I was hoping it would more obvious.
Even with a healthy Rose and the magician that Thibodeaux is, I don't see anyone in the East contending with the Cavs, it shouldn't even be close. The Cavs will trot out Irving-Waiters-LeBron-Love-Varejao as their starting five, with Miller, Thompson, Dellevadova, Jones and possibly Marion/Allen as their bench. That is a team with scoring power, depth and balance. Could defense be an issue? Maybe, but Blatt has proven throughout his career that he knows how to shape his defensive system around the players that he has.
I also woudn't be surprised to see the Cavs trade Haywood and his megacontract for a center next year. Hopefully New Orleans tanks and a guy like Asik becomes available.
This team should be an offensive juggernaut, once they learn to play together. Lebron, Kyrie, and Love all handle the ball higher than the average at their positions, so it'll be interesting to see how long it takes them to mesh.
Defense is the issue here. Miami got rolled because they couldn't stop penetration. Love is not a great defender, and neither is Irving. Waiters...no. So they will have to make large strides to have championship aspirations.
But they will also be a better offensive team than Miami. I think this is a championship-caliber team. Can they beat the Spurs or Thunder? I don't know. But I'm pretty confident in saying that the Cavs will make it out of the East.
Good discussion in this thread for the most part.
My thinking all along was that the cavs should wait until the trade deadline to see what happens with their current roster, what happens with other trade offers, and most importantly to theoretically remove ALL of minnesota's leverage.
since then though, I have read a lot and watched a lot of video on love. The dude is young, fundamental, great at almost everything on the floor, and at WORST a top 3 player at his position in the whole NBA. his game will also age very well IMO like lebron's.
the absolute best argument that I heard when it came to choosing Love (rather than wiggins) was this:
if the Cavs had Kevin love on their roster, would they trade him for Wiggins? The answer of course is no way.
Quick translation. Cavs are saying they won't wait to develop the talent, that they are a contender now.
Side note; The Cavs still have 2 1st round picks next year. Their own and the Memphis pick. So we can still add some decent young players into the fold. Or use them and Haywoods expiring for a center.
We do remember that Kevin Love was statistically the 3rd best player in the NBA last year right? (not saying he is, but numbers say he is, I do believe he is easily in top 6 or 7)
We do remember that Andrew Wiggins scored 2 points against Stanford his last game right? ( not saying he is not going to be good, but I'm far from convinced he is a star)
We do remember that last year at this time, everyone thought Kyrie was gone, we were trying to convince ourselves that Anthony Bennett would be good, and that Mike Brown learned to coach. Now the Cavs have the 2 top 10 players, a 22 year old all star MVP locked up long term (hypothetically). Also a great supporting cast that included Delly!!! /Australian Swoon. This is not short term rebuild, this sets us up for being TITLE favorites (3-1 in Vegas right now) for 5 years. Enjoy it, worry about AW later, it will pass in a blink of an eye like the 90's indians, Lebrons first run, Jim Tressels Buckeyes, and everything else.
I mean, Andrew Wiggins also averaged 17 PPG as a freshman in the big 12 on a good team. He was no doubt a very good player last year. But, I see your point. It was the right move as much as I would have loved to have Wiggins.
Wait... WHAT DID YOU JUST SAY?
I'm in shock right now.