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What does Johnny Manziel have that Troy Smith did not?

MassiveAttack's picture
May 12, 2014 at 4:16pm
109 Comments

What does Johnny Manziel have that Troy Smith did not?  Both are Heisman Trophy winners.  Both enjoyed their share of highlights and signature wins.  The knock on Troy in 2006, was that he was too short to play QB in the NFL at 6'0".  Yet Johnny isn't too short at 5'11"?  Not hating on Manziel, just wondering why

Combine Numbers

Smith (2007) - 174th Overall Drafe Pick (5th round):

  • Height: 6'0"
  • Weight: 225
  • 40 yard dash: 4.72 average
  • Vertical Jump: 36.5
  • Broad Jump: 10'2"
  • 20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.23
  • 3-Cone Drill: 6.93

Manziel (2014) - 22nd Overall Draft Pick:

  • Height: 5'11.75"
  • Weight: 207
  • 40 yard dash: 4.68 seconds
  • Vertical Jump: 31.5
  • Broad Jump: 9'5"
  • 20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.03
  • 3-Cone Drill: 6.75
blocko330's picture

The difference is Manziel has already played two years in the NFL against pro bowlers.... wait sorry that was just the SEC.

 

“Things may come to those who wait, but only the things left by those who hustle.”

- TruthTeller

+32 HS
4dorr's picture

I regret I can only like this once. 

Tomorrow

+1 HS
Colerain 2004 G.O.A.T.'s picture

LMAO BlockO...The HS kids these days really believe playing for a sec bottom feeder is better then playing for say ND,USC,*ichigan.

I speak the truth but I guess that's a foreign language to yall.~~Lil Wayne

-10 HS
Buckeyevstheworld's picture

Did you miss the 11w meeting on sarcasm?

"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.

+1 HS
SavannahBuck's picture

I was just thinking this the other day. I can only imagine the kind of numbers Troy would have put up in that offense, or the current Buckeye staff's offense for that matter. So to answer your question, the things that Johnny Manziel has that Troy Smith didn't is 1. He played in the SEC, so ESPN blew smoke up everyone's ass on his behalf, and 2. an extremely narcissistic personality that exudes arrogance, which people sometimes confuse with confidence. In no way is Manziel a better quarterback than Troy Smith from a skill set standpoint.
 

+8 HS
d5k's picture

I loved Troy and it is hard to avoid being a homer sometimes, but Troy was not the dynamic player that Manziel is.  He made a ton of plays in a vanilla offense and I do not doubt he would have looked better in a spread offense but he isn't as talented as Manziel, particularly running the ball.

+12 HS
Earle's picture

A catchy nickname, the ESPN/SEC hype machine, a signature gesture, and probably worst of all, social media.

Just say no to italics abuse.

+11 HS
Toilrt Paper's picture

Manziel has the hands and feet size of a 6-5 QB 

+10 HS
BassDropper's picture

timing.

The NFL is evolving into an uptempo, spread em out, with a mobile QB type of offense. Also, Johnny has a better arm than Troy (Troy had a pretty good arm). If Troy was in this draft class he would have been a 2nd. I also want to point out that Johnny had better coaching than Troy had. 

DIRECTIONER

+6 HS
Colerain 2004 G.O.A.T.'s picture

Troy Smith could throw the football 75 yards and I witnessed him do it multiple times. Also Smith ran a very pro-style spread them out offense his  last year at tOSU. If by better arm you meant "not as strong" then I agree.

I speak the truth but I guess that's a foreign language to yall.~~Lil Wayne

BassDropper's picture

More-so accuracy than arm strength, but I agree Johnny has the stronger arm.

Johnny completed 69% of his passes vs. Troy completing 62% in college. 

Johnny had a 172 QB rating vs. Troy's career of 157.

 

DIRECTIONER

+2 HS
Colerain 2004 G.O.A.T.'s picture

Johnny doesn't have a stronger arm then Troy. That much I can profess my undying love for. I would bet you a million dollars to show me Johnny throwing a football 73-75 yards.

I speak the truth but I guess that's a foreign language to yall.~~Lil Wayne

-3 HS
TheHumbleBuckeye's picture

Troy Smith had, and still has, a f*cking rifle with a nice, tight spiral on the ball. Johnny Manziel does not zip the football nearly as fast and tight as Troy Smith did/does. Anyone with a pair of eyeballs knows this.

+6 HS
William's picture

Troy Smith also became a fat, arrogant slob and got his ass kicked in the national title game. Johnny Manziel may be a douche, but he's a douche that hates losing. That's the difference between Manziel and Smith. Manziel is also a more accurate passer, and a better runner. The only thing Smith has on Manziel is a 1/4" and a stronger arm, and it's not like Manziel doesn't have a strong arm, he has a good arm, he just doesn't have the Favre-level cannon that Smith has. 

-3 HS
BrewstersMillions's picture

That actually doesn't illustrate anything. The whole crux of this comment can be boiled down to your dislike of Troy Smith. So because the guy hit the rounds at the buffet table a little too hard, that translates to his failure as an NFL QB?

Of course, you were the same guy that was ga ga over Brandon Weeden last year so I guess "Any Cleveland QB" is the guy you'll defend.

Do I come off as arrogant? Shame on me, I was hoping it would be more obvious.

+7 HS
William's picture

I don't dislike Troy Smith, I rooted for that guy like no other while in 7th/8th grade, but he simply came in to the national title game overweight and cocky, anyone that thinks otherwise is foolish, and to preface the arrogant comment, you can be arrogant as long as you win, but when you get your ass handed to you 41-14, it's pretty pathetic, although his O-line did him no favors that night. Also, Troy Smith's childish screaming match with the equally arrogant Mike Singletary did him no favors in pro football. 

Good on you for mentioning Weeden. The guy was a terrible QB for the Browns, and of course I'm going to defend a Cleveland QB, just like you defend Jay Cutler, who is a pretty mediocre QB, although he hasn't had the best O-line. 

Manziel is arrogant as well, but he didn't get fat off the Heisman banquet tour, instead he showed up for his bowl game and handed Oklahoma its ass. So again, Troy Smith is a 1/4" taller, with a better arm, and Manziel is a more accurate passer, a better runner, and simply better at not becoming a fat slob. 

Buckeyevstheworld's picture

A coach and player arguing. First time ever.

"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.

+2 HS
William's picture

Arguing? That was a bit more than arguing. Smith and Singletary both threw bitch fits on the sideline, just like the Brady-O'Brien hissy fit. 

+1 HS
Buckeyevstheworld's picture

It happens. Not a big deal.

"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.

+1 HS
BrewstersMillions's picture

But again, the fat slob part had no bearing on anything outside of the BCS game-As you pointed out it was a game in which everyone in a silver helmet failed to show up, for what its worth. Alex Boone was a professional turn style. Not giving Troy a pass, but that entire game was a team meltdown. The fact that he showed up out of shape to that game isn't the reason he didn't make it in the pros, so your dig at his laziness comes off as sour grapes. He didn't make it in the pros because he got lazy before the NC? That's what your saying, even if you think you aren't saying it. As for Troy\Mike Singletary-there isn't a player in NFL history that would be wrong for getting into it with him. He was a disaster of a coach.

As for Jay....sad to say its do or die time. His 'mega' contract is really nothing more than a three year deal with the option for four more. Basically, the careers of Phil Emery, Jay Cutler, and Marc Trestman are all tied together for the next three years. It was actually a team friendly deal but the 7 years is nothing more than a three year extension to the experiment. Trestman appears on his way to getting things going but Josh McCown showed what a QB with above average awareness and decent accuracy can do in his system-a mega armed QB like Jay might not be needed. Love Jay but its put up or shut time. Its hard to believe the guy has 40 more TD's than INT's....but above all else, his health has me the most worried now. He's tough as hell but he's missed too much time not to be considered an injury risk.

 

Do I come off as arrogant? Shame on me, I was hoping it would be more obvious.

+2 HS
Buckeyevstheworld's picture

Troy Smith also became a fat, arrogant slob and got his ass kicked in the national title game.

That you, Zwick?

"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.

+2 HS
BHT's picture

It is what Troy has that Manzeil does not have that foules him up.

BassDropper's picture

Troy had TWO 1st round WRs, a 2nd Round WR, and a current 1,000 yard WR in the NFL (Hartline)

DIRECTIONER

+7 HS
BAR43's picture

Throwing to skilled WR is one thing, still takes precision and vision... throwing jump up balls to an NBA sizes WR is another. Troy was a better QB all around, no question about it.

+4 HS
d5k's picture

Did you guys not watch the team in 2006?  Most of Troy's highlights were just like Manziel's highlights.  I recall being in the stands for a sequence where Troy had taken a sack or had some bad incompletions.  Some drunk moron near me says "there goes the Heisman", then I believe the next play was one of many "almost sacked several times then finds Robiskie uncovering 40 yards downfield for a TD".

+2 HS
BassDropper's picture

As much as it pains me to say this, yes I did watch the 06 team and yes I watched Troy's last game of his career. Bar43 keeps bringing up how Johnny had a security blanket in Mike Evans...anybody see how Troy played without Teddy. 4-14 with 1 INT. 

Johnny Manziel (Freshman) vs Alabama (which is on par or maybe better than the 06 Florida team)

254 yards, 2 TDs 0 INT, 77%, 92 yards rushing. (Mike Evans 5 catches, 40 yards, 0 TDs)

 

DIRECTIONER

+4 HS
BassDropper's picture

Did you even watch any A&M games...you're making it seem like all Johnny does is throw jump balls. Please do yourself a favor and go back and watch some TAM games, then maybe you can join this conversation.

DIRECTIONER

TNbuckeye91's picture

did you even watch that 06 championship game? Did you see the o-line "blocking" for him? I don't care if you have calvin johnson, cris carter, and jerry rice. when you're o'line collapses in under 1.5 seconds, there's no chance of having a good day.

+1 HS
BAR43's picture

Troy Smith didnt have a 6'6" WR to bail him out on every broken play... he had pure passing skill and vision.

+2 HS
d5k's picture

Come on.  Troy threw to multiple receivers that went in the first 2 rounds of the draft.  Manziel made tons of plays from the pocket as well as on broken plays and Troy made a living on broken plays.  That's what made Tressel ball more dynamic was Troy's improvisation.  Manziel does it at another level though.

+4 HS
BassDropper's picture

Robiski is 6'5

DIRECTIONER

-6 HS
BAR43's picture

Wrong.... Robiskie was listed at an inflated 6'4". Glad you are at least trying to use stats to make coherent statements, just do a bit more checking.

-3 HS
CincyOSU's picture

6'4" or 6'6"....is there really that much of a difference? Either way, you make it sound like the ONLY thing Manziel did was throw jump balls and pray. You don't have to like the kid(I don't) but it's ok to admit he was a pretty darn good college football player.

+3 HS
BassDropper's picture

Ooooh that extra inch makes a difference. Sorry, I didn't bother checking..speaking of doing a bit more checking, may want to check Mike Evans height out.

Make sure you have your shit in order before you come at me, bro!

DIRECTIONER

-4 HS
JohnnyKozmo's picture

Roy Hall was pretty big too.

+1 HS
AndyVance's picture

It still boggles my mind that Troy Smith isn't on an NFL roster. Especially considering Cleveland (yes, that's the entire sentence).

+6 HS
CincyOSU's picture

That stomach virus he got in Baltimore did him no favors.

+5 HS
AndyVance's picture

Yep. Damn you viruses - you derail the career of one of my favorite Buckeyes AND you've ruined several nights of sleep in our household lately (The Little Tyke has the Croup, so lots of hacking throughout the night).

ShowThemOhiosHere's picture

Overhype.  A catchy nickname.  But that's OK, Manziel probably won't be in the league in a few years, either.

Class of 2010.

d5k's picture

This is slightly off topic but I wonder if drills like the 3 cone drill translate far better to football than the 40 yard dash.  The 40 does not capture making a 250lb super athletic behemoth miss with a subtle change of direction.

+1 HS
d5k's picture

Why must every analysis be in absolutes?  The answer of "Does Manziel's game translate to the NFL?" likely is not a choice of either "all of his improv plays will work exactly as they did in college" or "he only threw jump balls up for grabs to Mike Evans, therefore fail".  Like most things the answer is somewhere in between and there's a multitude of possible outcomes.

Troy Smith definitely was unlucky in some ways with how he didn't catch on with the Ravens and how the national title game went down which cost him 3 rounds in the draft at least.  But that doesn't mean Manziel is undeserving of the draft slot where he was taken.

+2 HS
buckguyfan1's picture

wins against the SEC?

+2 HS
Youngbuck85's picture

Manziels a bit more athletic, but he won't make it in the nfl either. I went back and rewatched his highlights and 90% were jump balls that were caught in some miracle of a play or throw backs across the field on scrambles. He will be an interception machine, mark my words

+3 HS
CincyOSU's picture

 Key word....HIGHLIGHTS. Do you think a highlight tape is going to show your run of the mill out route thrown for a 12 yards completion? By it's very nature a highlight tape shows your "miracle" plays.

Manziel completed 595 passes in his career for 7820 yards. Are you really telling me it was all a result of broken plays and jump balls?

+4 HS
Youngbuck85's picture

That's fair, but tebow and weeden both put up huge throwing numbers in college .... Highlights are still relevant because they're a players best plays.... Manziels best plays would never work in the nfl... And spread offenses very much inflate those passing numbers. I personally love the kids game, but I just don't see it translating. 

William's picture

There are these things called cut-ups, that show a player's plays during a game. They're a lot better for actually scouting a play. Here's some film from the 2012 Alabama game: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykxRc-kSH74

+1 HS
Youngbuck85's picture

This even furthers my point.... Watch these cut ups. Almost every pass is a comeback route, a bubble/ flash screen, or a 5 yard pass to a slot reciever that are basically extended run plays. .  He gets tons of passing yards and completions because that's how his system is designed... Bridgewater will be twice the nfl qb that manziel will be 

William's picture

You do realize what kind of offense Shanahan runs, right? It's all slants, outs, screens and under routes. I love how you're going to hold it against a guy for running the system he's in to the tune of 7,820 yards passing and 63 TDs in two years. Also you're patently false on the notion that Manziel only throws the short ball. Manziel threw more passes of 20+ yards than Carr, Bortles, or Bridegwater, and completed such passes at a higher completion rate than them. Manziel also completed 73.5% of his passes in the pocket.

+2 HS
Youngbuck85's picture

That's fine, but again, how many qbs that ran that system in college succeed in the pros? Weeden threw for over 4000 yards his senior year and shattered big 12 records... College numbers can be thrown out the window when it comes to spread offenses. Tebow lead the sec in passing efficiency.  Its just not the same in the nfl

William's picture

The last QB that ran the air raid in college and then played with Kyle Shanahan as his OC won the Rookie of the Year award (RG3). 

+1 HS
MassiveAttack's picture

How did he do in the 2013-2014 season, once The League figured out that spread offenses can work "at the highest level?"

+2 HS
William's picture

Well he only followed it up by having more yards passing in two fewer games. RG3's issue was interceptions, because he was far too timid and indecisive this year. If you don't think spread concepts work in the NFL, look at the success of San Francisco, Denver and Seattle, which all run a bevy of plays out of the pistol. 

Great article by Chris Brown about the incorporation of the pistol into the NFL: http://www.sbnation.com/longform/2012/12/27/3792740/pistol-offense-nfl-redskins-rg3

Youngbuck85's picture

RG3 is a little different. He was extremely accurate. He threw more touchdowns than incompletions for a couple of baylors first games that year. Plus RG3 didn't do much last year at all

+1 HS
logamaniac's picture

Well shoot if he can translate 90% jump balls into a 22 overall selection in the NFL draft then he must have that "it" factor everyone loves.  Thanks for watching all those game tapes coach.

BassDropper's picture

I think you meant highlights

DIRECTIONER

logamaniac's picture

yeah i for one think manziel was a really good college QB that was only improving which is a good thing.  Anyone that puts up that type of offense twice in a row against Alabama isn't just a flash in the pan.  Will he translate into an NFL phenom? who knows but I'm intrigued to find out and crap its the browns it could have been much much worse for us.  

otrain2416's picture

Manziel went on to crush Oklahoma after he won the Heisman going  22/34 287 yards 2 TD 1 INT and 229 rushing yards and 2 TDs

 

Troy Smith got fat and slow after winning the Heisman and went 4/14 for 35 yards and an INT with -29 rushing yards in the NC game.

+5 HS
jeremytwoface's picture

The difference is that Manziel is playing in today's NFL and Troy Smith was playing in the NFL from 7 years ago. A lot has changed since then... 

The first man gets the ((((Oyster)))), the second man gets the shell.

+9 HS
Buck Commander's picture

Manziel looks like a wiener dog!

Every time I set my DVR to record Biggest Loser......It always records Wolverine Football Games!

+1 HS
Byaaaahhh's picture

The subject of why Troy Smith is not in the NFL brings me much pain and grief. Thanks, MassiveAttack. 

MassiveAttack's picture

Sorry, bro!  But that was really the underlying point of my forum topic.

villagebuckeye's picture

Manziel has always reminded me a great deal of former Giants and Vikings hall of fame qb scrabblin Fran Tarkenton. A fun player to watch

 

+1 HS
Colerain 2004 G.O.A.T.'s picture

We  salute  you for living to be at least 70 years old and still knowing how to log on to a Buckeye board. =)

I speak the truth but I guess that's a foreign language to yall.~~Lil Wayne

-6 HS
Mean Mr Mustard's picture

I would compare Manziel to Tarkenton too.  I have only seen Tarkenton on NFL films, BTW.

+1 HS
ShawneeBuck74's picture

Manziel has the edge on Troy in accuracy.

Manziel also had an offensive system built for his skill set and a REAL offensive line (well-coached one).  

Troy did gain some weight before the N.C. game. However, we lost because he never had more than 2 seconds to throw the ball. Our offensive line got abused. Later on we come to find out how easy it was for a good team to scout a Bollman offensive line.  When the new staff showed up, our entire offensive line was weak and out of shape. I blame Bollman, not Troy, for that loss.  

If Troy had a stable offensive system & a real coordinator and o-line, that game would have been competitive. We'd probably still have lost, though, IMO.

 

You win with people. 

 

+3 HS
Colerain 2004 G.O.A.T.'s picture

I read a real good article a few years back that entertained the idea of Florida not only knowing what plays we were practicing but knew how to determine pre-snap if it was run or pass. Most people do not want to believe this type of treason takes place in sports but it makes the most sense when compared to how bad we got shut down. I mean I do believe a major portion of our offense was supposed to center around Ginn but the complete domination leads me to believe that the report of espin selling out our offense has some truth behind it. It helped their agenda and bottom line. Calling CincyOSU

I speak the truth but I guess that's a foreign language to yall.~~Lil Wayne

-10 HS
BrewstersMillions's picture

What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Do I come off as arrogant? Shame on me, I was hoping it would be more obvious.

+9 HS
AkronBuckeye13's picture

Automatic upvote for Billy Madison quotes.

Youngbuck85's picture

Lol I laugh my ass off everytime he says "May god have mercy on your soul"

O-H-I-Owe-U's picture

Seems like NFL teams got scared off by the sideline argument he got into with Singletary. Hoping like crazy that he lights it up this year in Canada and gets another shot. 

+2 HS
bafiesta's picture

Troy was a fantastic college QB and one of my favorite Buckeyes ever.

Troy had an ample shot in the NFL, his performance was barely north of awefull.  He's no longer in the NFL because 32 NFL teams think their second string QB is better.  This takes nothing away from what he did at OSU.  

Jonny has better accuracy, better escapability, and seems to read defenses better.  He's still a high risk / high potential reward draft pick. 

d5k's picture

By most accounts Manziel also killed it in the interviews / white board sessions.

MassiveAttack's picture

Good points for sure.

I was mainly trying to point out the Draft position disparity, rather than Troy's NFL career versus what Manziel has yet to show.

GOOMBAY's picture

Neither played Stanford football.

+9 HS
seafus26's picture

I was worried by the arc Colt McCoy would throw with on outs and hitches near sidelines. It's not as looping but Manziel's arm  does the same. Troy used to throw those on a line. At times Troy could be accused of throwing it too hard. I want go as far as saying Johnny is a better runner. He played in a system that allowed him to in space. I have no doubt Troy could do the same and break more tackles. Accuracy on the shorter passes and maybe anticipating the receiver about to come open seem to be Johnny's edge. Arm strength, tight spiral and the deep ball seem to be Troy's advantage.

Go Bucks and michigan STILL SUCKS!

+2 HS
Buck Commander's picture

Drake man Johnny Manziel has Drake!

Every time I set my DVR to record Biggest Loser......It always records Wolverine Football Games!

+3 HS
Vinginia_Buckeye's picture

The ability to escape pressure from SEC defensive lineman?? I still get nightmares at the image of Troy being sacked and chased down over and over against Florida.

" I'm a Buckeye "

-2 HS
Colerain 2004 G.O.A.T.'s picture

Yea because the thoughts of sec sack king Michael Sam bearing down on you are the things nightmares are made of.

I speak the truth but I guess that's a foreign language to yall.~~Lil Wayne

-10 HS
KingsRite's picture

Acne...

“I have yet to be in a game where luck was involved. Well-prepared players make plays. I have yet to be in a game where the most prepared team didn't win.” -Urban Meyer-

+4 HS
TNbuckeye91's picture

oh man, that caught me off guard. fucked up but way too funny.

+1 HS
Brutus' Left Nut's picture

Entering the draft the same year that the Super Bowl Champion fielded a short, mobile, improvising QB.

+3 HS
Bugsyk's picture

Troy became sick in Baltimore near the beginning of the season.  Flacco or Boller started taking first team reps.  Similar to Russell Wilson and Matt Flynn being neck and neck until one was given a nod.  Troy was just a victim of bad timing.  When he was released, he was put in situations to be a back up, nothing more.

 

+2 HS
BucksFan2000's picture

More of a mystery to me is how Troy is in the CFL, but guys like Blaine Gabbert and Christian Ponder get starting jobs.

And it didn't last very long, but the Browns did just give Vince Young another shot.  Crazy.

+2 HS
Gametime's picture

In the NFL's defense, it's not like Troy didn't have a shot. He started games for the 49ers and Ravens and while he had some exciting games, he simply didn't do well enough on.

Troy is legend here for obvious reasons, but you can't be a career 51% passer in the NFL and expect a starting position. It's unfortunate that he got mono and Joe Flacco took advantage of the situation, but to your points, Vince Young got cut, along with the other guy as the Browns also brought in Conner Shaw (SC) for competition. Blaine Gabbert is now a permanent bench rider for the 49ers and there's a good chance that Ponder gets cut and winds up as a backup in Tampa or Miami. 

It's honestly safe to say that Troy benefited from his WRs more than they did from him as their QB. Imagine if we had Manziel (or his contemporaries Mariotta, Winston, etc.) with weapons like Holmes, Gonzo, Hartline, Ginn, etc. what we would've done to the B1G let alone Michigan wouldn't have even been fair. 

Between goals and achievement is discipline and consistency. That fire you have inside to do whatever you love is placed there by God. Now go claim it. ~ Denzel Washington

+2 HS
Mean Mr Mustard's picture

Well, if you look at the numbers, JM has better agility and slightly better straight line speed.  Like William said, JM is a arrogant douche but he is a competitor.  Troy Smith just became a douche that was just looking for a paycheck.

 

I think Manziel should thank Russell Wilson for showing the NFL that short guys can play QB in the NFL

-1 HS
AndyVance's picture

WHAT DOES JOHNNY MANZIEL HAVE THAT TROY SMITH DID NOT?

Answer: An extremely punchable face.

+7 HS
Mi.Buckeye's picture
He is smaller and harder to tackle.
"If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball"

 

+1 HS
Bolt's picture

I love Troy as much as anyone...but Johnny was one of the best quarterbacks I've ever seen at the college level. Now don't take this as me saying I think he's going to translate and succeed at the NFL level. I think Troy could've been successful but he got hosed out of his best opportunity to succeed (Baltimore). One knock on Troy was that he had a long slow throwing motion and slower release, Manziel's is relatively quick. You can compare some of the measurables for Johnny and Troy (which, for Troy you took his average 40 time and only took Johnny's highest. Johnny was also clocked at 4.56)...but look at the stats though. Manziel literally put up numbers that I thought were possible only in video games. Troy threw for 2500 yards and ran for 204 with 31 total TDs in his redshirt senior year when he won the Heisman. Manziel threw for 3700 yards and ran for 1400 with 47 touchdowns in his redshirt freshman season in which he won the Heisman. Troy had some highlight plays but Manziel's entire season was prolifically highlight play after highlight play after highlight play. I'd argue that Troy had a better/deeper stable of weapons to work with as far as receivers and backs go as well.

+2 HS
d5k's picture

Circumstances matter for QB's in the NFL more than other positions.  If a pocket QB gets thrown behind a terrible O line and sacked record amounts of times he won't succeed (David Carr).  Troy got unlucky in that he did not get a real opportunity to start in Baltimore thanks to the virus.  But he is one of many similar stories.  A lot of guys get drafted by one regime, do not have immediate success as a rookie and then tossed out by the next regime without being given a real shot.

jeremytwoface's picture

I heard that Manziel actually picked up the tab for dinner when the Browns front office took him out....

Maybe that's the difference.

The first man gets the ((((Oyster)))), the second man gets the shell.

+1 HS
Furious George 27's picture

I feel like this question is posed as if Troy Smith didn't get a legitimate shot in the NFL. He was drafted, was seriously considered as a starter unti his illness, beat out by a better QB, went to the 49ers and was decent. None of his stats suggest he should be more than a back up in the NFL, but he had his shot. Manziel could be great or a bust, but he at least desearves a shot.

Yeah, well…that’s just like, your opinion, man.

d5k's picture

He wasn't really decent in SF.  Bad coaching regime there at the time but he was well below average when he started.

Bolt's picture

Alex Smith was equally bad during the Singletary regime. Suddenly Alex Smith turns it around when Harbaugh rolls into town. Would've like to have seen Troy get a shot with Harbaugh's regime. 

+2 HS
d5k's picture

Technically he got a shot in that Harbaugh had the choice whether to retain him.  Harbaugh released him based on his film I would assume.

Furious George 27's picture

Decent as in being signed w/out a pre-season and going 3-2 with a bad team.

Yeah, well…that’s just like, your opinion, man.

Whoa Nellie's picture

Big hands and big feet -- and you know what that means!

 

 

 

 

Big shoes and big gloves.

“Don’t fear criticism. The stands are full of critics. They play no ball. They fight no fights. They make no mistakes because they attempt nothing. Down on the field are the doers, they make mistakes because they attempt many things.”

+1 HS
MassiveAttack's picture

I see what you did, there.

I often use that joke myself.

You can't spell chump without UM's picture

Troy Smith was drafted to a Ravens team who had a 5-11 season, then the next year they drafted Joe Flacco in the 1st round to be their "franchise QB." He then went to a terribly coached 49ers team with Mike Singletary, who, as many of us remember, got into a very heated argument with Singletary where Ted Ginn had to calm him down. So I think that Smith never really got his fair chance with any NFL team, whether it's a biased opinion or not, it's just my opinion. Manziel is now on a team with an unknown coach, and seeing as how Josh Gordon looks like he will be suspended for the entire season, his only receiving threat will be Jordan Cameron. Travis Benjamin is fast, but is not a true receiver, Greg Little drops more balls than puberty, and Davone Bess is plainly average, even for a Browns receiver. I think Manziel will have a very tough time with his new team, however I'd still think he'd be a bust wherever he was because I don't even believe that he's better than RG3 and look at him, it's a disaster in Washington.

Brady Hoke ate my comment

+3 HS
Bolt's picture

"Greg Little drops more balls than puberty,"

Nice. 

 

I may be wrong but isn't Bess gone now? They brought in Nate Burleson and Andrew Hawkins in the offseason (big whoop, I know). The brief Bess saga in Cleveland was pretty comical off the field though. But yeah, no one on the team pisses me off more than Greg Little. Oh yeah, and Burleson is currently sidelined with a broken arm.

You can't spell chump without UM's picture

That's right, I forgot about Hawkins. You may say "Big whoop" but he may actually be their best receiver with Gordon going to be out. He has blazing speed and doesn't drop the ball, so at least the Browns have a good slot receiver and tight end, but other than that... nothing really in the receiving game.

Brady Hoke ate my comment

Furious George 27's picture

Thats assuming none of the UDFA WR work out or they don't go after a veteran FA WR. Kenny Shaw interests me,  listed as someone  with good hands and not afraid to go over the middle. Of course going over the middle in CFB is different than the NFL.

Yeah, well…that’s just like, your opinion, man.

Gametime's picture

Both are solid signings IMO. I think the Browns receiving corps will be more  than solid with Gordon being a true #1. If he can get his ish together, having Hawkins, Nate (on the mend), Kenny Shaw (I think he'll beat out Benjamin especially with him recovering from the ACL), and having Cam of course would give them more looks then most Brownies are expecting.

Still, If I'm the Browns, I'm definitely taking Amari Cooper &/or Stefan Diggs with those two #1s next year or possibly a stud at Guard.

Between goals and achievement is discipline and consistency. That fire you have inside to do whatever you love is placed there by God. Now go claim it. ~ Denzel Washington

d5k's picture

I think Manziel and Tate running the ball will be a big part of the offense this year.  And I expect a good year from Cameron in the red zone.  Look up the Redskins 2012 stats.  It was basically an elite spread rushing attack with Morris/RG3 and then spread it around in the passing game.  Defenses actually have some idea how to defend the zone read but I think Manziel/Tate is a good combo.

Hovenaut's picture

A job with the Cleveland Browns.

...sigh...

I am not very smart, but I recognize that I am not very smart.

+4 HS
ARMYBUCK's picture

Funny, The first thing I said to my brother when the Browns drafted Manziel was "Why draft Manziel, especially with a first round pick when Troy Smith would probably doggone near play for free!"  I guess in short Im not a fan of this pick but If he can win in Cleveland I guess I can learn to like it. Long Live T-ROY though! 

Groveport Heisman's picture

Hard to think a rich arrogant kid from oil money is going to make it in a blue collar town like Cleveland. I'll cheer  the kid on and wish him the best. He had to get drafted and it had to be the Browns. I think we should all be thanking Jesus H. himself we didn't blow the 4th overall pick on him and still wound up with a pro-bowl caliber CB and a likely top-5ish pick next year. It was a gamble that had to be taken.

Mark my words..I don't need acceptance. I'm catching interceptions on you innocent pedestrians.

-1 HS
HilltopHustle's picture

What does Johnny Manziel have that Troy Smith did not?

The power of social media—which feed ESPN's TMZ-esque "talk shows"—to build up the hype?

+1 HS
Buckeyesonthateasternswing's picture

not going to lie i see alot of useless numbers on this computer screen.