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Fickell or Herman?

johnblairgobucks's picture
June 21, 2014 at 8:30pm
34 Comments

Which is doing the better job? Who is more vital to the Buckeye's 2014 Big 10 Championship hopes? Or do you feel they are both somewhat henchmen, with pressure falling on Ash/ Meyer?

Imo, it is an important year for both, Fickell needs to have better production from all linebacker spots combined, and Herman needs to trust the whole offensive unit to become lethal . Won't win it all unless both have good seasons. I feel the Columbus microscope is zero'd in on Fickell more, though.

ITWASME's picture

Fickell is more important. Defense wins championships.

+7 HS
ronbizi's picture

Can I throw Ed Warinner into this discussion?  Even though he's under Herman, his ability to develop an almost entirely new O-line will really determine how far Braxton takes us.

+6 HS
Seattle Linga's picture

It's nice how they all work hand in hand and have one main goal in common.

+3 HS
kmp10's picture

"Which is doing the better job?"

Really??? No need to turn this into a fire Fickell thread… but asking whether Fickell or Herman is doing the better job is just silly, IMO. Fickell, for whatever reason(s), has not performed. The defense has been a huge liability since he's been in charge (2011 - 2013) while the offense has been consistently good during Herman's two years as coordinator. 

+4 HS
kb1's picture

Yep this. That's a stupid question.

+1 HS
logamaniac's picture

Except when it's failed or stagnated itself in the two games that mattered and potentially a third that we pulled out against UM this season. Don't take the disparity of talent on each side of the ball for granted. The offense is a corvette because of the tools on the field. The defense doesn't or at least didn't have that luxury due to injury and transfers. I also haven't really seen Braxton evolve as a passer yet so I can't say for sure that Herman can develop quarterbacks yet. This season will help determine!

-2 HS
CPDenn's picture

Lol, 'stagnated itself?' OK. Give MSU's defense some credit. Is it that hard to just say that they stopped us in the first quarter and late in the game because they're just that damn good? Or that Clemson has some freak athletes on the defensive line and are a pretty good team in their own right? Go back and watch some tape on the '11 team. What exactly did Herman have to work with coming into the season? A quarterback who wasn't exactly proven, running backs in Hyde, Hall and Smith who had never truly been featured backs outside of Boom's suspension, a group of WR's and TE's whose best receiver graduated and led the team in receptions while only playing in two regular season games and a few pieces of a bad offensive line the prior year, and oh yeah, a tight end switching to tackle. A corvette because of the players on the field? Sure those guys have talent, but Herman and the rest of the offensive staff implemented their systems and put those guys in the best position to succeed. That's what good coaches do.

If you haven't seen Braxton evolve or improve as a passer, then I can't help you. He's noticeably improved over the course of his time here. Sorry to disappoint, but he's never going to throw like Jameis Winston or Manziel. That's not who he is, and it's not going to happen. Him not being an incredible thrower wasn't what stopped us from getting stopped short of a national championship appearance, just like Nick Marshall not being a superior thrower wasn't what stopped Auburn from winning the national championship. Their ineptitude on defense finally caught up to them at the end of the season.

+1 HS
logamaniac's picture

Does a defense suddenly make an adjustment that makes a coordinator go away from a ball carrier averaging 6ypc and not get any more carries?  I'm not calling Herman a bad OC but if you don't think he's out thought himself at times you're just kidding yourself. 

 

And what hat exactly would you say has been Braxton's evolution?  He's always had a cannon arm and he's still as inconsistent and can't read a defense or effectively run the read option. That's not to say he can't run it it's just extremely inconsistent. 

 

Like I said we will see how he develops going into this year not being able to throw. 

 

Also I wasn't aware Herman was on staff in 11 to coach the buckeyes I'll have to watch the game tape. 

-2 HS
CPDenn's picture

You know I meant that Herman wasn't working with a lot coming into '12 after the '11 season.

Sure. Our quarterback who has back-to-back 1,000 yard rushing seasons and ran point for the best rushing offense in the country last year can't effectively run one of our most used plays/schemes. That sounds like it makes a ton of sense.

 

bleedscarlet's picture

To be fair, Fickell did have to replace 6 of his front 7.... and they did pretty damn well.

I'm too drunk to taste this chicken

-1 HS
CPDenn's picture

it's not like Herman has been offensive coordinator for two of the most prolific offenses in school history or anything 

allinosu's picture

Come on now, he had most of the talent and experience and there were some pretty bad defenses along the way. There was some bitching at times at questionable play calling in the big games. I think this year we will get to see Herman work his magic. But I also see our defense returning to normal.

+1 HS
CPDenn's picture

We've already seen Herman work his magic. I'm not sure what people are waiting to see. The dude is an awesome coordinator. I've seen a lot of "The offense has been good" comments on this site the last year. No, the offense has been great. We averaged damn near 7 yards a carry against a Michigan State defense that was probably the best defense in the country outside of Florida State and we torched Clemson. Neither of the losses in those games are on the offense.

+1 HS
allinosu's picture

Things like opening the game throwing the ball successful then completely abandon the pass because he fell into one of his comfort zones running the ball. How about utilizing all these weapons he claimed we were missing the year before who stood on the sideline or was used as decoys. Regardless of the defense we were in the position to win verses MSU and we got predictable. Magic will come this year when he has to overcome a new offensive line and protect Braxton more. MSU shut him down early the they shut him down late to win. It's nice to boast 7 yards a carry but stopped in your tracts when you need a yard.

+1 HS
BlockO's picture

Fire Fickell....lol

"faith seeking understanding” (fides quaerens intellectum)

-1 HS
JohnnyKozmo's picture

What Herman can do with the offense depends on the development as a passer by Braxton.  

BuckeyeRealist13's picture

Lets relax on the Fire Fickell stuff. He is a legit position coordinator, and i believe that is all he should be. Lets do away with this "Co-coordinator" stuff and make Chris Ash the Defensive Coordinator and Fickell the LB's coach. 

I've spent time in the South, I don't care what anybody says they don't have the passion for football that us Ohioans have. 

BuckeyeRealist13's picture

Tom Herman is one of the best offensive coordinators in college football. This year it is on Chris Ash. He is running the show in the defensive backfield, and that is where the issues are. 

I've spent time in the South, I don't care what anybody says they don't have the passion for football that us Ohioans have. 

BoFuquel's picture

Fickell: cause he's the future. GO BUCKS!

I wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then.

MikeTheBuckeye's picture

Is this really even a question? Fickle flopped in his single year as interim coach. We've witnessed the decline of the Silver Bullets since he's taken over as the Defensive Coordinator. It got so bad last year, we had to go out and find a new Defensive Coordinator to pick up Fickle's slack. In my opinion, Fickle is the new age Jim Bollman. He is simply here because of his tradition and tenure. No matter how he under performs, he simply won't be fired unless he goes off to coach elsewhere. Tom Herman on the other hand is a blessing to be at The Ohio State University. The man is an offensive genius. The pairing of Tom Herman and Urban Meyer's brilliant minds have produced a record setting explosion on the offensive side of the ball. You know, the side of the ball that has been forced to out score opponents due to defensive incompetence ...

bleedscarlet's picture

This is so unfair to Fickell. He went from Co D Coordinator to taking over for the games Tress was going to be suspended to taking over for the whole season and then back to Co D Coordinator with a new staff. He did everything that was asked of him with class and determination. Could he have done better? Yes, but it's all experience and learning and he'll be better for it.... we're lucky to have him. Maybe next time he takes over it won't be in the midst of NCAA sanctions and he won't have to start a freshman at QB w/o his top WR,RB and LT, maybe next time he'll have an offseason to settle in as the Head Coach and not just a fill in guy.

I'm too drunk to taste this chicken

-2 HS
MikeTheBuckeye's picture

I sincerely hope there won't be a next time.

logamaniac's picture

nick saban had a bad run at OSU and i cant say hes a bad coach can you? 

Poison nuts's picture

WTF is a Fickle?

"Do not pass me, just slow down - I can move right through you" Superchunk - Precision Auto.

+1 HS
cajunbuckeye's picture

Fickell will prove to be more valuable when the dust finally clears.

An angry fan...rooting for an angry team...led by angry coaches

bleedscarlet's picture

Herman, obviously.... he does have the benefit of working with Meyer though.

Fickell does get some bonus points for maintaining the self control to not rip Withers a new asshole... even though he probably should have.

This season is all about Ash cleaning up Withers mess and Warinner building the new Oline.

 

I'm too drunk to taste this chicken

TheShookster's picture

Fickell started Bauserman over Braxton in 2011. Herman wins.

bleedscarlet's picture

This must mean Herman is better than Tressel also, since he did the same with Boeckman/Pryor..........

I'm too drunk to taste this chicken

BlockO's picture

Irrelevant argument. .. Boeckman was no Bauserman. Plus Boeckman did lead us to the natty game vs LSU.

"faith seeking understanding” (fides quaerens intellectum)

RunEddieRun1983's picture

It was Ryan Timmons.

I don't always downvote, but I do always downvote a Michigan fan trolling the Buckeye boards.