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Fading Michigan charm and relevance

HotSauceCommittee's picture
June 9, 2014 at 4:01pm
118 Comments

When reading up on recruiting in Jordan's recent OSU Camp Notes thread and other recent recruiting threads I cant help but notice how many recruits have Top 3's or Top 5's that list OSU, Michigan, ND, etc. I realize this isn't ground breaking news to anyone.

These are traditional Midwestern power schools, with rich history. However, to today's high school athletes does rich tradition matter? Are high school freshman and sophomore quarterbacks aware of Michigan's past successes? Think about it.....Michigan hasnt been Nationally relevant or even Big 10 relevant, albeit for 2011, in closing in on a decade. They have had losing seasons when many of these high school juniors and seniors were in middle school.  They have had back-to-back coaches struggling to win 8-9 games and collapsing during the Big 10 season. I think it is safe to add ND to this as well. Take away the national championship run, ND has had little success.

I relate this to the great Celtic-Lakers rivalry. I am 36 and was blessed to have watched the Bird-led Celtics with my dad when I was a youngster. This helped shape my view of sports and sports teams. However, during my young adult life the Celtics were in-part led by Antoine Walker and his bloated, yet horribly unefficient stats. This changed my perception of the Celts and it took Garnet-Allen-Pierce trio to change that.

Kids rely on trends. SEC is trendy, Oregon is trendy, FSU is trendy, OSU is right there. That being said, how in the bloody neck of Catelyn Stark does Michigan continue to receive "love" from these recruits? What is trendy about Michigan right now? Is it the vanilla offense? Is it the inability to beat OSU and Little Brother? Even Texas has faded out their minds and it wasnt too long ago Colt McCoy was breaking records.

Trends and perceptions change, but Michigan hasnt been trending up for quite some time.

 

 

TheBadOwl's picture

I mean, they won a Sugar Bowl two years ago. How quickly we forget that after seeing their program free-fall since then.

When I walked in this morning and saw the flag was at half mast I thought, "Alright, another bureaucrat ate it." but then I saw it was Li'l Sebastian. Half mast is too high. Show some damn respect.

+4 HS
CTBuckeyeFan's picture

They got alot of national exposure from the Outback Bowl too

 

+20 HS
Buckeyevstheworld's picture

We forget it because they won a game that neither team deserved to be in.

"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.

+11 HS
TheTeam16's picture

Story of the BCS, happens every year. 

We won the Sugar Bowl, deserving to be there or not...not in Michigan's control, and it is more than what meyer has done post Florida.

Please don't cite his undefeated sanctioned season in which he beat the most cupcake schedule in the history of major college football as being more of an accomplishment than winning a BCS game. 

-10 HS
Buckeyevstheworld's picture

Did Michigan win the BigTen or their division in 2011? Nope.

most cupcake schedule in the history of major college football

You're confusing that with Michigan's 2011 schedule.

- Michigan didn't play Penn State or Wisc in 2011. Ohio State beat both on the road in 2012.
- Michigan beat one 10 win team in 2011. Ohio State beat 2 in 2012.
- Hokes win against Ohio State in 2011 came against a Fickell led squad. You guys celebrated like it was against Tressel.

With a weaker schedule, Michigan still lost two games. :/

"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.

+15 HS
TheTeam16's picture

Has meyer won a B1G title...nope...

Actually if you go by expert ranking OSU still had the weaker schedule, UM was 17th in 2011...but I am not going to argue facts...

-@ Neb night game>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Than night game against wisky in the shoe...

-You played schools with worse schedule, allowing them to get to 10 wins and falsely securing their "prestige"

-A win is a win, I cant help that tressel blatantly ignored rules he thought didn't apply to him or his program and you were stuck with fickell for that year...

http://www.fbschedules.com/2012/06/phil-steele-2012-college-football-str...

Number 4: Michigan (2011 ranking: 17) – The Wolverines open the 2012 season with a huge game against defending national champion Alabama at Cowboys Stadium in Arlington, Texas. Michigan then hosts Air Force and UMass before traveling to Notre Dame. B1G home games include Iowa, Michigan State, Illinois, and Northwestern. Conference road game include Nebraska, Ohio State, Purdue, and Minnesota..

Oh by the way, OSU didn't make his list of toughest schedules for either the 2011 or 2012 seasons...

Keep in mind it is well known Steele is an Ohio State fan, and is thought of as one of...if not the best NCAAFB statistician and predictor of outcomes year in and year out. 

*edit*

Upon further review OSU was ranked 32nd SOS in 2011...again UM was ranked 17th...

http://www.philsteele.com/blogs/2011/Jul11/DBJuly18.html

-10 HS
skid21's picture

A win is a win, I cant help that tressel blatantly ignored rules he thought didn't apply to him or his program and you were stuck with fickell for that year...

Maybe a win is a win but a win against the worst OSU team in decades isn't all that much to brag about, but that is really all you have. Yes, Tress did break the rules but at least he was covering for players who sold their own things and not a guy who was accused of raping a woman and his teammate who threatened the victim. I really wouldn't go to a rival's board and start talking shit when my team has a lot more to be ashamed of.

+9 HS
TheTeam16's picture

Saying UM didn't deserve to be in the Sugar Bowl is not correct. Whether either program, the fans, the AD's, whoever...thought they should be in another bowl is irrelevant. The pople who made the decisions for the BCS said they deserved it and that is all that matters. 

Many OSU fans I am good friends with rub every loss for the last 8 years in my face...should you be proud of beating some of the worst Michigan teams of all time? The ball does bounce both ways. 

As for getting negged into the earth regarding my SOS comment which I backed up with pure unarguable fact from experts in the field...

-10 HS
e135800's picture

Many OSU fans I am good friends with rub every loss for the last 8 years in my face...should you be proud of beating some of the worst Michigan teams of all time? 

 

tOSU didn't beat the worst michigan teams of all time,  Those wins are coming over the next several years. 

+8 HS
Buckeyevstheworld's picture

Many OSU fans I am good friends with rub every loss for the last 8 years in my face...should you be proud of beating some of the worst Michigan teams of all time?

Denying Michigan a bowl appearance in 2009 is one of my favorite moments in Ohio State's history.

For whatever reason you keep ignoring the fact that during Ohio State's down year, they lacked a coach.

Ohio State with a coach in 2010: 12-1.

Ohio State without a coach in 2011: 6-7

Ohio State with a coach in 2012: 12-0

Michigan had a coach during their hilarious 3 year dark age. A coach that Michigan fans bragged would do to Ohio State what UF did in the '07 nc.

"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.

+8 HS
skid21's picture

The ball does bounce both ways.

Well, not so much these days.

+1 HS
sox33osu's picture

Hmm...neither of those links says that michigan had the 17th ranked schedule. The Phil Steele blog says michigan had the 32nd ranked schedule while OSU had the 23rd in 2012. At any rate, if this is the only kind of argument you're going to try to make against OSU football's accomplishments, it's going to be a long season for you if you remain on this site.

+11 HS
Oyster's picture

Pssst, you are not supposed to actually click on the link, just take their word for it that the information is what they portray it to be.

May you R.I.P. Otsego, but know this. Gaylord Rocks!

+7 HS
TheTeam16's picture

If you would rather see pictures of the link due to the fact you are too lazy to open said links...I have taken screen captures of the two websites for your viewing pleasure. 

Have fun arguing facts. 

 

-10 HS
sox33osu's picture

Wait, wait, did you read the article? First off, did you notice the date of his blog post was July 18th, 2011? Wouldn't it be pretty impossible to who say had the toughest schedule in the nation when the season hadn't even kicked off yet?? Secondly, did you notice the 2012 was ALSO a preseason ranking? These aren't "facts", these are predictions.

+11 HS
Oyster's picture

It's not that I am too lazy to open the link, it's that it only shows up as a red x and clicking it does no good.

May you R.I.P. Otsego, but know this. Gaylord Rocks!

+3 HS
mb5599's picture

"Has meyer won a B1G title...nope"

Neither has Gravy Hoke.............................

 

Big B

+8 HS
TheTeam16's picture

Yes ummm...this was exactly my point...UV for you!

-10 HS
lsjSnail's picture

Meyer won the division

+5 HS
IGotAWoody's picture

I like how you count getting pounded by Alabama as a boost to your strength of schedule. But I guess it's tough to find sources of pride when it comes to Meatchicken football, lately.

"We had a tougher schedule that year, remember how we got crushed by the defending Champs?! Then ended our season with losses to an undefeated OSU and an Outback Bowl loss to South Carolina!"

 - License to kill gophers (wolverines, badgers, etc) by the government of the United Nations

+1 HS
skid21's picture

"We had a tougher schedule that year, remember how we got crushed by the defending Champs?! Then ended our season with losses to an undefeated OSU and an Outback Bowl loss to South Carolina!"

 That is some funny shit right there.

+1 HS
sox33osu's picture

There are a lot of reasons, really. Kids do still care about things like tradition. They are still aware that schools like Notre Dame and ttun are institutions for football. If they attend these schools and succeed they are going to get drafted very highly. Plus they also could have the feeling that they were part of the group that helped restore these once proud programs to relevance (see Penn State's 2015 recruiting class for another example of this). It also has a lot to do with the ability of the recruiters. Looks at what Bama was from 97-07. They had 8 years of 5+ losses in that stretch, but all it took was getting an elite recruiter in there to restore what used to be. 

That said, neither school has an elite coach IMO, and neither will see the success Bama is having until they see that.

+2 HS
HotSauceCommittee's picture

We are more in tune to MI being that we are their rival and share the same conference. Kids from the South, Westcoast, etc. - what is drawing their interests currently? Is it tradition, playing for a winner (laughs), playing with a certain player, free donuts, chicken wing Wednesday's at Hoke's Happy House of Chubbiness?

+5 HS
MichaelJ721984's picture

Hokes Happy House of Chubbiness.... Love it. That fat bastard

+3 HS
Hovenaut's picture

There is still history, tradition and all that.

I still hate 'em both, and will continue to do so forever and always, but it's not as if Notre Dame and M...ichan do not have the resources to get back on their feet.

I watched the late Earle Bruce teams, then the friggin' 90's, waiting for the Ohio State my father and uncles used to talk about to return.

Kelly and Hoke have had excellent seasons in South Bend and AA, but it's taking some time to re-establish consistency after some serious deterioration.

 

"Success...it's what you do with what you got" - Woody Hayes

+6 HS
TheTeam16's picture

Hovenaut, as a UM fan on this board I really value your posts. You always bring a realist view to conversations, not letting your fandom get in the way.

It is something that is rare whether you are on 11W, MGoBlog, or any other team dedicated site.

Really appreciate it. 

-7 HS
Hovenaut's picture

Appreciate the kind words, TT16.

"Success...it's what you do with what you got" - Woody Hayes

+2 HS
IGotAWoody's picture

Team16, you should come to this board with a whole lot more of this kind of reasonableness. And leave the nonsense and stupidity above for mGoBlow and the other GeoCities sites where you Meatchickeners like to wax relevant. I know that sounds snarky, can't help it after those other posts, but seriously. Emulate Hove when you're on this site and you'll have a much better time.

 - License to kill gophers (wolverines, badgers, etc) by the government of the United Nations

+4 HS
TheTeam16's picture

I am not a member at MGoBlog anymore, I was banned after the purge for saying things about the program people thought to be untrue. I was not very popular. 

Also, nothing I said above is wrong...just unpopular. There is a big difference. 

 

-7 HS
Oyster's picture

I was not very popular

Imagine that...

May you R.I.P. Otsego, but know this. Gaylord Rocks!

+9 HS
IGotAWoody's picture

Funny, I went back and looked again, and there's almost nothing but wrong up there from you. Several people have tried to help point out your wrong, so you can maybe make a better effort in the future.

 - License to kill gophers (wolverines, badgers, etc) by the government of the United Nations

+1 HS
TheTeam16's picture

Please go back and look at the indisputable evidence I provided then, tell me I am wrong and how. I even included pictures so you do not have to search the links. 

-10 HS
sox33osu's picture

TT16 - go back up and read my followup. I did misread the first table in the link (it was a table for opponent's winning %, not SOS), however you are wrong about these being "facts". These were his PREDICTIONS for the season. A game hadn't even been played when these articles came out.

You are wrong, and that is how.

+4 HS
mb5599's picture

Room is spinning cause of all the ...........gayness..................

Big B

jaxbuckeye's picture

Some may also have to do with parents. If they have a favorable view of a school their son may, as well. I can tell you my son has lived in Florida his whole life but has been raised a Buckeye. If he ever makes it to elite level you can guarantee he's choosing tOSU.  Other Floridians would find that odd. 

+2 HS
FROMTHE18's picture

They just need a rockstar HC. Harbaugh or Les Miles. Unless Michigan wins the division or at least finish 2nd in the division, I see Hoke getting the boot and then they get a chance to find someone that will make them "sexy" again.

M Man's picture

So you are 36, eh?

Were you born in, say, 1978?

By my count, Michigan has the series lead during your lifetime.  At 18-17-1.

-10 HS
BroJim's picture

Lol, we all know that's about to tip to .500 come November of 14'

I season my simple food with hunger

+4 HS
Buckeyevstheworld's picture

You have that wrong by my count. Michigan is 17-18-1 against Ohio State since 1978.

"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.

+11 HS
M Man's picture

My bad.  I counted 2010 as a Michigan win.  It wasn't.  It was an OSU forfeit.  Michigan is not credited with a win, with OSU's forfeit.  And it isn't really an OSU loss.  Michigan wins (17) since 1978:  

'78, '80, '83, '85, '86, '88, '89, '90, '91, '93, '95, '96, '97, '99, '00, '03, '11.

Ohio State wins (17) since 1978:

'79, '81, '82, '84, '87, '94, '98, '01, '02, '04, '05, '06, '07, '08, '09, '12, '13.

1992: 13-13 tie in Columbus.

17-17-1 is the record.

2010:  OSU forfeit.

So that's the record of total OSU dominance during HSC's 36 years.

-10 HS
Buckeyevstheworld's picture

 I counted 2010 as a Michigan win.

Was that loss so traumatic that you made up an alternate reality? XD

"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.

+20 HS
sox33osu's picture

Oh don't worry, they still whooped your ass in 2010. I was there.

+13 HS
Byaaaahhh's picture

No you weren't; it never happened...

 

+15 HS
Furious George 27's picture

You still get a loss for 2010 Bro-Chacho.... it does not disappear for you because OSU cannot claim victory.

Yeah, well…that’s just like, your opinion, man.

+3 HS
LouGroza's picture

So much for stating facts. A little salt on that crow?

+4 HS
HotSauceCommittee's picture

Regardless there isn't much of a win gap on either side. My point was how it affects current and recent recruiting since many of these kids haven't seen a winner in MI all but for one season.

+2 HS
HotSauceCommittee's picture

I will toss ya an upvote for bringing logic, even if slightly flawed, to the conversation.

+3 HS
M Man's picture

You know, I can understand an OSU fan claiming that Michigan sucks, that we're no longer relevant in the Big Ten much less the national championship discussion and that you don't give a damn for the whole state of Michigan.

What I don't get is your suggestion that Michigan may have lost its "charm."  Because we are pretty fucking charming.  Who else ya got, for charm?  Alabama?  Michigan State?  Wisconsin?  Princeton?

-9 HS
HotSauceCommittee's picture

Besides Tim Allen commercials what else is charming? I kid! I married into a UM family so I can make my jabs.

+2 HS
Scarlet_Lutefisk's picture

Besides Tim Allen commercials what else is charming?

Well the ability to plead guilty to a felony and remain on the team probably has an appeal for some kids.

+6 HS
Earle's picture

I don't know, I think Princeton is pretty charming.  

Except for those helmets.

 

Italics are for emphasis.

+8 HS
ISURVIVEDCOOPER's picture

Well, Nick Satan is a snake charmer so there is that, but thanks for the morning chuckle M Man.  You may root for the wrong team, but you're alright in my books

"I don't apologize for anything.  When I make a mistake, I take the blame and go on from there." - Woody Hayes

+1 HS
warosu's picture

Today is Monday, and _ichigan still sucks a$$

+3 HS
osu07asu10's picture

Michigan hasnt been Nationally relevant or even Big 10 relevant, albeit for 2011.

 

Take away the national championship run, ND has had little success.

Most programs only make legitimate top 5 runs every few years. What Alabama has sustained, Auburn has achieved, and Ohio State has largely accomplished over the last decade is not the norm.

Tough to discount a program's good year and toss them under the bus. I hate Brian Kelly but it is hard to argue that he does not have ND heading in the right direction. What if Gholston played this year?

scUM,...well that's a different story...

"They don't know what they don't know." - Coach Mick

+1 HS
HotSauceCommittee's picture

Of course not many teams can sustain top 5 seasons. But most don't lose to Tulsa or fall off a cliff and have loosing or poor seasons for 8 out of 10 seasons.

+2 HS
dwcbuckeye's picture

That being said, how in the bloody neck of Catelyn Stark

 

This better not be another F-ing spoiler.  I am still in the middle of season 2.  Say nothing Bassdropper - he who gave away the Breaking Bad ending

+1 HS
HotSauceCommittee's picture

Was supposed to read pearl necklace of Catelyn Stark. Season 2 epic Dothraki-Stark orgy at Littlefinger's brothel.

+4 HS
AndyVance's picture

Laugh of the day right there - say what you will about the Dothraki, but they know how to party...

-1 HS
BME_Buckeye's picture

Players could be choosing UM for education purposes since not everything is related to football. Let's remember that these are student athletes. And before people shit on UM players for being Kinesiology majors; I'd add that their KENE program is solid and I've been influenced by a guy who teaches the subject at Ohio State who went to Michigan. Though this is one example of using your degree from Michigan for something, there are likely other options. Insert the general studies....

 

 

Look closely, because the closer you think you are, the less you will actually see.

 

+2 HS
M Man's picture

The General Studies thing just won't die.  Thank you very little, Jim Harbaugh.  (And you guys think you have Kirk Herbstreit problems!)

The BGS degree program was never, ever set up for jocks to get an easy degree.  It was set up so that undergrads who were heading to graduate school could design their own undergraduate programs within the College of Literature, Science and the Arts.  My older brother who graduated ahead of me is a very good example.  He was determined to go to medical school; but he did not want a degree in chemistry, biology, anthropology or physics.  He wanted to impress medical school admissions boards that he was taking a range of science courses that would best prepare him broadly for the first two years of basic science med school work.  He did that, got one of the first BGS degrees granted at Michigan, and he's now a full-prof. faculty member at Northwestern's medical school.

-4 HS
AngryWoody's picture

I hardly see how the classes your brother took have anything to do with the football team. Can you show me where all of these linebackers turned surgeons are? I'd really like to see them.

Our Honor Defend!

+2 HS
M Man's picture

LOL.  Right off the top of my head, there's Kirk Lewis, who was such a freak (a national student-athlete scholar award winner) that he did the impossibly hard Inteflex (six year combined undergrad/medical degree) while he was playing football, serving as a Michigan football team captain and earning All-Big Ten honors.

 

-3 HS
AngryWoody's picture

Reminds me of Mike Lanese. He was a 1985 Rhodes Scholar who made a clutch third down in the 1984 game to seal a win for the good guys. How many Rhodes scholars does the high and mighty U of M have (EDIT: In football)? Oh yeah, ZERO! Keep workin' boys in blue and maybe one day you'll catch up with the big dogs.

We have more Academic All Americans than you guys also. Damn it feels good to kick your guys' ass on the field and in the classroom. Buckeye domination bro.

Our Honor Defend!

+10 HS
TheTeam16's picture

If you are honestly attempting to make the argument that OSU is more academically prestigious than The University of Michigan, this is true ignorance. 

-11 HS
Ahh Saturday's picture

A Michigan degree is prestigious in the way that a Tony Award is prestigious; nobody outside of your little Jazz Hands friends gives a s***.

+9 HS
TheTeam16's picture

Yeah you are right, no one in the business world gives a shit about a potential hire having a degree from UM lol...that's funny.

-9 HS
Ahh Saturday's picture

Go ahead, and at your next interview plop your resume on the desk, do your little Jazz Hands dance and say "Michigan."  If the person doing the interview is from Michigan you might actually get the job, if not, well, things might not work out so well.

+3 HS
Furious George 27's picture

What is really funny is that you think a college degree means more than actually having real world experience. Congrats, you ran a hypothetical business in your econ class, now start from the bottom like everyone else with a similar degree.

Yeah, well…that’s just like, your opinion, man.

+1 HS
AndyVance's picture

Yeah you are right, no one in the business world gives a shit about a potential hire having a degree from UM lol...that's funny.

Here's the reality of the situation today, though: unless you graduated from an Ivy (specifically Harvard, Yale, Princeton or Columbia), or you graduated from a very prestigious school in a given field of endeavor (let's say MIT, for example), the average employer probably isn't saying "Oh my, you went to The U of That State up North, I must hire you at all costs" (unless, of course, the employer is an alum of said School Up North). This can probably be said of any state school, really - unless your employer has a specific bias toward a given school, or if that school is eminent in the given field of study from which the job in question derives, it's a college degree, period.

Is U of M a prestigious university? Sure it is. And so is Ohio State. Haggling over which school is superior is just another form of phallic measurement that doesn't mean a whole hell of a lot in the real world today.

+4 HS
TheTeam16's picture

I never said OSU was not a good school, it is just not as good as the University of Michigan, that is not debatable. I know you will try, but ask anyone in academia...it is just a fact. 

A local company headquartered in central Ohio and my employer pretty much only hires graduates of the biochemistry program at the university of Michigan. I was a new graduate coming out of college, and due to the fact I had a UM degree I was able to beat out people with years of experience already under their belt for the job. In fact, my co worker who is going back for his PhD requested to be sent to OSU, but since the company I work for is paying for his continuing education, they told him he is going to UM.

So your statement of..."oh you have a degree from school A...we have to hire you over everyone else" is actually quite true at the place I work, and many of the other fortune 500 companies in our field that almost exclusively hire students from UM. 

 

-8 HS
AndyVance's picture

That's one field of study and one company - the plural of anecdote is not data. I suspect that your example is the exception and not the norm, and my comment above specified that graduating from a given university was indeed an advantage in a specific field. Fortune 500 firms are also only one subset of the employers in the country; I read somewhere that the 500 employ something like 27 million workers, out of a total U.S. labor pool of roughly 155 million, so you're only looking at 17.4% of the workforce based on those very rough numbers.

You're big picture point "U of M is a prestigious school" is true, but a degree from said university is not some golden ticket to success in the real world. Plus, we haven't even factored in the cost to attend U of M versus MSU or Ohio State compared to the expected earnings a degree from U of M might help a graduate secure as compared to the expected earnings from an MSU or OSU grad. Prestige may not actually yield a better return on investment, depending on the field of study.

+1 HS
TheTeam16's picture

If you read...I said multiple fortune 500 companies in our field prefer UM grads. And sure the fortune 500 companies only employ a fraction of the people that are in the US workforce, but that fraction I would wager is the best at what they do...hence why the companies are able to be in the most exclusive corporate club in the world.

Expected earnings for UM graduates are MUCH higher than OSU and MSU. Hence why UM is rated 66th ROI school in the country, MSU is 308th, and OSU is ranked 303rd...even with UM's pricier tuition than both of those institutions.  

http://www.payscale.com/college-roi/full-list

If you can honestly say you would send your child to OSU over UM assuming they had full ride scholarships to both, I do not know what to tell you. Unless of course they were going to be studying farming "stuff."

-8 HS
AndyVance's picture

No child of mine will attend That School Up North, under any circumstances.

And given that Wal-Mart is the #1 company on the Fortune 500 list, your argument about Fortune companies somehow being the only place that "the best and brightest" work is somewhat one-dimensional. Yes, Fortune 500 companies probably do employ many of the best and brightest, but simply working for one of the 500 says absolutely nothing about the individual worker or the quality of the aggregate workforce at those companies.

If you want a recipe for success in work and life, it's very simple (simple is not a synonym for "easy" in this context):

  1. Choose a field or profession you will love;
  2. Obtain a degree from one of the top universities in that field of study, or at a generally well-respected university;
  3. Perform well enough at school, network as much as you can, and burnish your credentials through quality research, employment/internship/etc.
  4. Get a job and do well at it.

All this dickering over "my school is better than your school" is symptomatic of a very narrow definition of success, happiness, etc. I choose Ohio State because it was the best school in the country at the thing I wanted to study at the time I applied; it was also close enough to home that Dad could help work on the car, but far enough that Mom couldn't drop by to visit without calling ahead. The field I went to study is not the field in which I've worked for the past 12 or so years, but that has been completely irrelevant to my professional success and advancement. And that's the point: yes, in certain fields, where you went to school matters. For most occupations, that is simply not the case.

+4 HS
TheTeam16's picture

I stoped reading after the bolded text...I cant argue with stupid.

I feel sorry for your children that your own selfish interests would prevent them from garnering a degree from one of the foremost universities on the planet, one that ohio state simply cannot compete with outside of farm science.

-10 HS
AndyVance's picture

Completely uncalled for and totally inappropriate. That sort of comment is unwelcome behavior on this site, even coming from a fan with questionable taste in teams - take a note from MMan and some of the other quality UM fans on these board - being a jerk will not endear you to the community.

+4 HS
TheTeam16's picture

I assume you are bothered by the statement due to the fact it is the truth. Any parent who would deprive their child of a Michigan education on the basis they are an osu fan is exactly that..stupid. I feel sorry for your progenie related to their parents selfishness.

I sincerely hope you are joking, but I get the feeling you are not.

-10 HS
Scarlet_Lutefisk's picture

    I assume you are bothered by the statement due to the fact it is the truth. Any parent who would deprive their child of a Michigan education on the basis they are an osu fan is exactly that..stupid. I feel sorry for your progenie related to their parents selfishness.

Let me step in here for a moment & correct you. You are making a selection bias error. As TSUN has more restrictive entrance requirements than Ohio State's your quoted numbers are not looking at equivalent data sets. When you correct for comparable ACT/SAT scores you'll find that there is little difference between the two institutions on life time performance. If a student is accepted into TSUN but instead decides to attend Ohio State (or Ohio University for that matter) it will have little to no negative affect his long term performance. In effect a student in the Ohio State honors program is at zero disadvantage compared to her peers at TSUN.

Yes, TSUN graduates tend to earn more over their life than those of Ohio State, but not because TSUN provides them with a better education. Rather it's because they are preselected from a group that is more likely to exhibit higher lifetime earnings.

I can cite the relative papers if you'd like. Granted they aren't snazzy 90's websites like 'payscale.com' ...but they have undergone peer review.

To forestall any claims that I'm a 'jealous' Buckeye, my degrees are not from Ohio State. I turned down an academic scholarship by the institution (among others) you hold so dear to instead enlist in the Marine Corps. I do however have degrees from UCSD & Stanford. So if we absolutely must indulge in academic snobbery, I'll be quite happy to look down my nose at you.

+7 HS
sox33osu's picture

Are these more "irrefutable facts?" 

I went to The Ohio State University, and bought my first house at 26 and make well above the national household average. I'm flying to Houston next weekend to interview for a promotion. My major was Sociology. 

Guess what? Undergrad is what you make of it, but you can't teach things like intuition, initiative, and common sense. Being from NW Ohio, I know plenty of folks that went to TSUN. Comparatively, I'm doing as good or better than all of them. 

You're wrong again, and this is why.

+2 HS
skid21's picture

What an arrogant ass you are. Again, a degree from OSU will do a guy just fine in life. However, when you suck at football then you end up being a fan on rival sites talking about academics because you can't brag about football. That sucks for you. Again, scUM isn't as "prestigious" as it should be for you to be on a football message board bragging about it.

+6 HS
skid21's picture

Speak the truth my man. A degree from TSUN isn't going to open all the doors they want to make believe it will. The school the degree is from has very little influence unless it is an Ivy League (no scUM you are not Ivy League). OSU is ranked 16th and TSUN 4th among public universities. Really not as big of a difference as TSUN wants to make it out to be . It is all going to depend on your major. scUM fans want us all to believe they are Harvard and they most certainly are not.

+3 HS
AngryWoody's picture

If you are honestly attempting to make the argument that OSU is more academically prestigious than The University of Michigan, this is true ignorance. 

Not saying that at all. I'm just going to follow your premise which is pretty much this: "U of M is an excellent university and the quality of degree you receive is top notch (Historically is has been MUCH better than OSU). Being that we are so great academically we attract a higher quality of student athlete than OSU." If you accept that premise, then why is Ohio State producing a comparable number of excellent student athletes? If you're recruiting smarter kids and bringing them into a better university then why aren't your football players kicking our football players asses in the classroom?

I know why. It's because your football program is failing to do all that they can to prepare their students both athletically and academically.  The fact that OSU, who for a long time wasn't even close to UM in the college rankings, has been able to operate at a disadvantage academically as an institution and still produce as many, if not more, high quality grads out of our football program is a MAJOR indictment of UM's failure to educate their players to the highest level they are capable of. It's also a huge compliment to our excellent athletic department who have out performed their college rankings for decades and have been able to create an excellent product for our student athletes. Bravo OSU, bravo.

Our Honor Defend!

+2 HS
hit_the_couch's picture

How many Rhodes scholars does the high and mighty U of M have? Oh yeah, ZERO! 

As much as I hate to say it, but michigan is a good academic institution so this sounded a little fishy. A quick Google shows as of 2013 they have produced 25 Rhodes scholars. For comparison, tOSU has had 5. Reed College has 31 (i've never heard of it either), and isn't ranked real high on anyone's list.

But people have to go through the rigorous application process etc to win. So who knows how many from any school could have won but just didn't want to go through the process.

 

http://www.rhodesscholar.org/assets/uploads/Rhodes%20Scholarships_Winnin...

And then I told her...i'm no weatherman, but tonight's forecast is calling for several inches!

+1 HS
Oyster's picture

I read his comment to be in reference to football players being Rhodes Scholars.

May you R.I.P. Otsego, but know this. Gaylord Rocks!

+7 HS
hit_the_couch's picture

I read his comment to be in reference to football players being Rhodes Scholars.

If that's the case, then tOSU has 1. IDK about michigan; i'm not looking it up.

And then I told her...i'm no weatherman, but tonight's forecast is calling for several inches!

+2 HS
HotSauceCommittee's picture

The topic of the post wasnt intended to lead to a debate about which degree looks better. Lets face it. Michigan is a great academic institution, as is OSU. Depending on what your field of study is, UM may be better or OSU may be better. Nationally, UM probably is looked at as the better school, but we all know OSU has the strongest alumni base and the stronger brand.

The topic was specifically about the status of Michigan recruiting and how or why it continues to be successful amid a decade of below average teams, coaching and loosing to their rivals. Apparently, being a Michigan Man remains a strong draw.

+3 HS
TheTeam16's picture

Actually according to this article the largest living alumni base belongs to PSU (616,000), then Indiana (580,000), and then Michigan (540,000)...

http://www.campusexplorer.com/college-advice-tips/27CB3C22/Colleges-With...

OSU is also not on the list for the wealthiest alumni, Michigan is one of only 3 public universities on the list. In this day and age Wealth = Power/Strength.

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/top-15-universities-wealthy-alumni/story?...

 

-10 HS
Nutty's picture

So does TSUN football program really suck this much? I mean you are on an OSU site spouting this crap? I can guarantee if you get a degree from OSU you will have lots of opportunities. I can also guarantee that if you play football and go to OSU you will have elite coaches and will beat TSUN on a regular basis. Quit trying to make it sound like a degree from OSU is worthless. That is a pathetic argument that has no basis. Only the type of crap a hopeless football fan would try to sell.

+3 HS
HotSauceCommittee's picture

I said strongest, not largest.

AngryWoody's picture

As much as I hate to say it, but michigan is a good academic institution so this sounded a little fishy. A quick Google shows as of 2013 they have produced 25 Rhodes scholars. For comparison, tOSU has had 5. Reed College has 31 (i've never heard of it either), and isn't ranked real high on anyone's list.

Yeah, I'm talking football players. M*ch*g*n has historically been superior to OSU academically. I'm not even going to deny that.

Our Honor Defend!

+2 HS
mb5599's picture

looks like will ferrell.

Big B

+3 HS
HotSauceCommittee's picture

I thought the same thing. Good catch!

+1 HS
Scarlet_Lutefisk's picture

I was thinking Todd Christensen.

osubuck57's picture

Not a popular post I'm sure, and yes I can't stand that team up north, but they will still get their share of recruits, if for nothing more, past history, traditions, and academics...some of the same reasons we get some of our guys. A good _ichigan team only makes the Big Ten better, as a whole, but they do need a new HC. Really surprised they settled for Hoke after the Rich Rod debacle. Was looking at their top ten recruit list from last year, and it's a pretty damn good list. Think one of their main problems is continuing to develop those kids once they get on campus, but we'll see.

SCOTTC.

-1 HS
sivaDavis's picture

 

"I've had smarter people around me all my life, but I haven't run into one yet that can outwork me. And if they can't outwork you, then smarts aren't going to do them much good." - Woody Hayes

+24 HS
Buckeyevstheworld's picture

So she's always been goofy looking. I thought it was just in the last 5 years.

"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.

sivaDavis's picture

Yes she has been different the past couple years, but I'll admit I was a big fan of hers (not music wise) back in this day when I personally thought she was a smokeshow:

 

"I've had smarter people around me all my life, but I haven't run into one yet that can outwork me. And if they can't outwork you, then smarts aren't going to do them much good." - Woody Hayes

+3 HS
Buckeyevstheworld's picture

I can't tell if she's actually cute or she's benefiting from lots of makeup.

"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.

+1 HS
sivaDavis's picture

+1 to counteract your stalker. But just focus on the lip bite and go from there. Maybe she'll start to appear more attractive.

"I've had smarter people around me all my life, but I haven't run into one yet that can outwork me. And if they can't outwork you, then smarts aren't going to do them much good." - Woody Hayes

-1 HS
TheTeam16's picture

Sure UM has not been relevant for a good bit excluding 2011. However, there is one reason a kid with a good head on his shoulders will always be interested int he University of Michigan, because the degree is one of the most prestigious honors you can obtain in the academic world. Many kids, even highly ranked athletes in football will not see the NFL, or may only last in the league for a few years for one reason or another.

Cannot beat having a degree that can only be stood up by a handful of worldwide institutions. 

-6 HS
CTBuckeyeFan's picture

Yep, you guys are the best and brightest up there:

 

+13 HS
sox33osu's picture

Good Lord, look at that slam pig. She had a whole mess of beers that morning.

+4 HS
Buckeyevstheworld's picture

The girl on the right sums up Michigan fans every year. The smile slowly turns into sadness.

"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.

+2 HS
osu07asu10's picture

i've always enjoyed the guy over haus' shoulder where he is realizing the smell coming from the row in front of him and contemplating which is worse...the smell or the football team.

"They don't know what they don't know." - Coach Mick

+3 HS
Scarlet_Lutefisk's picture

The award still goes to the girl in back who is trying to slowly sink out of sight.

+3 HS
Buckeyevstheworld's picture

I just noticed her. lol

I wish the rest of that fan base would do the same.

"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.

+1 HS
Scarlet_Lutefisk's picture

However, there is one reason a kid with a good head on his shoulders will always be interested int he University of Michigan, because the degree is one of the most prestigious honors you can obtain in the academic world.

An undergraduate degree from any institution is far down on the list of 'prestigious honors' in the academic world.

+3 HS
Nutty's picture

So if a recruit wants a prestigious degree they should go Ivy or Univ. of Cal (any location). How about Duke? Illinois? Wait. We're talking about advantages for a football player? I see none in regard to TSUN. Coaching staff? NFL draftees? Winning?
 

HotSauceCommittee's picture

What is this academics some of you speak of?

+2 HS
Seattle Linga's picture

Unbelievable how they troll our boards - try and lay the smack - then back track when the topic of conversation doesn't go their way.

+3 HS
hit_the_couch's picture

I wouldn't call them nationally relevant in '11. They had one of the worst schedules i've ever seen and didn't even play the better teams in the B1G that year. They got curb stomped by the only decent team they played (MSU) who was about average to slightly slightly above average themselves.

And then I told her...i'm no weatherman, but tonight's forecast is calling for several inches!

+6 HS
AngryWoody's picture

Got a big laugh out of this. With all the bickering and whatnot going on here I was reminded of the quote "Brevity is the soul of wit".

Our Honor Defend!

Buckeyevstheworld's picture

Hoke has a sister?

"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.

+2 HS
blueinsconsin's picture

Yes, they haven't been trending up, but completely switching coaching philosophies from "manball" to "spread n shred" and back to "manball" has delayed progress greatly.  Did RichRod get enough time to fully implement his program? Probably not, but the way the defense was trending, the lack of support from the school/doners/etc, something needed to happen.  So then they restart again with Hoke and Co.  He had a hot start with winning the Sugar Bowl, but then came back to reality as youth and philosophy changes have really started.  I think the program will start trending back up in 2014 and be ready to fully compete by 2015.  Is Hoke the man that should be there?  Still not sure yet.  That being said, if Hoke's gone after 2014 or 2015, I don't see the program struggling much with a new coach (if he runs a more pro-style program) because he will have players with experience and who's recruiting profiles tell us they should be good (obviously not every recruit pans out)

Not here to troll...Go Blue

+1 HS