Ohio State Football Forum

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Ohio State football talk.

Getting to 82

Maestro's picture
February 7, 2014 at 9:41am
46 Comments

How does it happen this year?

and is Rashad Frazier on scholarship?

willshire58's picture

I was shocked to see Frazier on scholarship as a part of the awesome new scholarship grid. With him we're at 84 if I counted correctly. I remember Urban saying something about managing 5th years for some guys. I would guess that someone will probably go on medical hardship too.

+2 HS
Brandon26841's picture

If Frazier's on scholarship then they're at 85 then. 

 

- Ah, nevermind. I see that J.T. Moore apparently won't be back for his red-shirt senior season, as he's either declined it and just went ahead and graduated or they're not bringing him back. I'm pretty sure the team has an option on that. 

+1 HS
Orlando Buckeye's picture

If you've already graduated, do you need to be in scholarship to play?  Could you opt to walk on? Are you required to take classes to play? How does that work?

+1 HS
Ekes42's picture

I don't know this for a fact, but I'd say yes you are required to take classes to play sports.  If you weren't taking any classes you wouldn't be a student-athlete.  What I'm not sure about is if you could just take 1 class if you already have a degree and play.  I think Matt Leinart only took ballroom dancing his senior year.

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buckeyedude's picture

Hey! Don't knock ballroom dancing until you try it. It's not as easy as one might think. Especially for those that have two left feet.

 

 

-1 HS
Maestro's picture

Yes, you are probably right.  Medical hardship is certainly a grey area that many here will call B.S. on when another school does it.  I just hope everything is done with the players' best interests in mind.

vacuuming sucks

+5 HS
VestedInterest's picture

I'm one of those guys that really looks at the medical hardship cases when others do it, most often because they're 12/13 players over their limit. We're at 84/85 whichever...point is there is little doubt of attrition totaling 2/3 players. When teams place players on medical hardship that are sitting at 97...I'm more likely to call BS.

+1 HS
BuckeyeJ's picture

I agree Vested. 2-3 players vs 6+ To me its about doing it every year. Every year we see most SEC schools offering WAY over the limit. 

Catch 5's picture

Kudos Maestro on calling it out, or at questioning it. You and I have been at odds before over oversigning and similar topics, but if/when you question the same (or similar) actions elsewhere, I have much less an issue with you being critical of Saban and others.

Make their asses quit! - Nick Saban

-1 HS
trock's picture

Where is the scholarship grid located?

Crimson's picture

Hover over football.  It's on the right.

Jagon1119's picture

Does anyone know how to access the scholarship grid on a mobile device?

+2 HS
TMac's picture

Transferring within the B1G costs 1 year of eligibility, I'm pretty sure Frazier wasn't immediately on Scholarship and sat out 2012, so IDK,but I doubt he's on scholly.  That would be 83 IF he is not, one more somewhere by August. 

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Nick's picture

I don't think they would have taken an extra guy at the last minute unless they knew they would have the room to do so.

+1 HS
PAG's picture

I'm pretty sure Frazier is not on scholarship.

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PAG's picture

Also, where has it been reported that J.T. Moore is not coming back for a 5th year.  I'm not saying he is or isn't (I have no idea), just that I have not seen that reported anywhere.

+1 HS
Brandon26841's picture

I haven't seen it anywhere either, but he's not on this site's scholarship grid. I've always kept my own scholarship grid (I know... what a loser) and I haven't taken him off it yet because I haven't heard anything about it officially. I vaguely recall there being some rumblings that some 5th year seniors might not have their scholarship renewed or whatever, because I remember I was surprised to hear that the team had an option with that. 

+2 HS
PAG's picture

There are only 3 potential 5th year seniors - Rod Smith, Darryl Baldwin and J.T. Moore.  Urban mentioned Smith (last chance for him) and Baldwin (starter at RT) at his press conference this week.  No mention of Moore.  I think Moore is the only potential 5th year not coming back.

+2 HS
buckeyeboy31's picture
You ain't cool unless you have your own scholarship grid.....

 

+3 HS
buckeyedude's picture

^^^^this cracked me up.

 

 

-1 HS
d5k's picture

There's an obvious candidate for multiple violations of team rules that is not a secret.  And there are a couple guys buried on the depth chart that may want to play D1 football before their eligibility runs out.  Hopefully Devan Bogard can recover from his multiple ACL tears but if he isn't able to play he would be a medical hardship candidate.  

But with all that we literally only have to have 1 guy go off of the count to get to 82.  It would be a miracle if that didn't work itself out on its own unfortunately.

+2 HS
Statutoryglory's picture

Careful, my worst downvoting experience was for suggesting this a month ago.

-1 HS
EvanstonBuckeye's picture

Good post as I think this is the 800 lb. elephant in the room for many of us in terms of assessing the adjustment from Tressel to Meyer in terms of recruiting philosophies. Ethically, I can completely see the rationale that you cannot sign one more player if you are at your limit, regardless if you know of or can foresee a player leaving or not. Pragmatically, this leaves you short-handed when such an occurrence happens.

As Catch 5 has pointed out, we've had classes with high attrition rates in the recent past, but were always under the limit for scholarships and, often, comfortably so. I tend to take VestedInterest's stance that, if you're starting with 97, you're basically subscribing to the hope that someone decides to leave or gets injured. If "hope" sounds harsh, you're shitting yourself as you could not possibly go twelve players over the limit and not hope that a dozen kids leave. In addition, you suck.

Still, I don't like the idea of us tinkering around beyond the limit. Maybe I'm missing a loophole and, if so, would love to hear about it as scholarship and signing rules are not always so transparent (see McDowell, Malik).

+2 HS
Crimson's picture

Ethically, I can completely see the rationale that you cannot sign one more player if you are at your limit, regardless if you know of or can foresee a player leaving or not.

Only the "foresee a player leaving" crosses the line.  If you know a player is leaving, but it hasn't been announced, there is nothing unethical about it.  We're technically oversigned, but we know that we're fine on numbers.  Also, I think you have to notify the B1G office if you're technically oversigned (at least by a certain #) with an explanation.

+2 HS
Catch 5's picture

The B10 doesn't consider a team to be oversigned until the end of the signing period (NSD is the beginning of the period). The coaches give the B10 their budget based on how many spots they see opening up and as long as they don't go over that, they aren't considered oversigned (a better description is that the B10 restricts and monitors greyshirts - which is Imo a better rule). So if Meyer knows of spots that are opening up after the spring term (which is likely), OSU is not oversigned by the B10 standards.

Make their asses quit! - Nick Saban

+1 HS
EvanstonBuckeye's picture

Thanks for the explanation. It's pretty much what I thought, but you hit upon a term that should probably replace "over-signing" in the conversation with "greyshirt." Why is this legal?

+1 HS
Catch 5's picture

Greyshirts have gotten a very negative reputation, but if done responsibly it is really a useful tool that is beneficial to players and the teams. The key - and this is extremely important - is that the player know and understand that he may be asked to greyshirt when he signs with the team. If that is the case there really isn't anything wrong with it's use, and players that would otherwise not have been able to sign with their preferred schools get to. Likewise, the school has a little insurance against attrition.
It's when a school Springs it on the player after he no longer has the option to go elsewhere that problems arise. Despite the connotation with greyshirts, I'm only aware of a couple instances of this being reported. The B10 rule actually does a good job of insuring that this scenario doesn't happen, which is why I've grown to like it the more I learned about it.

Make their asses quit! - Nick Saban

+1 HS
Crimson's picture

Right.  Grayshirts aren't inherently bad.  Todd Boeckman, I believe, was told that there was very little chance he would ever see the field with all of the depth in front of him.  Therefore, Todd grayshirted his first year to let him be a 6th year senior and get a chance to start.

+1 HS
BuckeyeJ's picture

So JT B could have greyshirted his first year? and if so i wonder why this was not done?

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Crimson's picture

No one wants to grayshirt.  Boeckman did it because otherwise he probably wouldn't see the field.  When you take one, you take part time courses, and I don't think you're on scholarship.

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KevinJ's picture

I believe that gray shirts are not on scholarship, but are promised a scholarship their following year. If that is not accurate someone please chime in.

+3 HS
Catch 5's picture

True. Greyshirts are not enrolled full time and are not on scholarship. The LOI guarantees a scholarship upon enrollment full time within one year of signing. Greyshirts delay that enrollment until after that season, where they count against the following recruiting class.
This is where the SEC's rule against oversigning does more harm than good. If a coach wants to greyshirt a player but is over the 25 limit (even if they have room under the 85 limit) he can delay his enrollment but is not allowed to sign his LOI - so instead of the guarantee of the LOI he is relying on the promise from that school alone.

Make their asses quit! - Nick Saban

+1 HS
Norwalk's picture

Here is a good explanation of what a greyshirt is. I don't think we'll use a greyshirt for any of our players. The numbers will take care of themselves. We are currently over the 82 by 1 or 2 players. If that means a kid who has been on scholarship 4 years is let go before his eligibility is exhausted, so be it. My guess is that we will have a transfer or 2 and maybe even a legit medical exemption. Tressel always had unused scholarships to award walk-ons after signing day. Urban doesn't have that luxury (because of scholarship restrictions brought on by Tressel).

What is a greyshirt?

+2 HS
buckeyeboy31's picture

so I have some questions about the football scholarship grid, feel free to answer if you know....

--James Clark- not really a question as I think it's already been answered, but I have him listed on my spreadsheet as a RS Freshman; he will eventually be granted the medical redshirt before his eligibility is exhausted, similar to that wide receiver trying to play QB up north, yes?

--JT Moore- I see he's not listed, and he is a 5th year senior; I'm guessing he's just a guy who is naturally attritioned???

--Antonio Underwood- I had him listed as a RS Junior as he was hurt all of last year; is this another medical redshirt situation?

thanks in advance....

+1 HS
PAG's picture

Clark will be given a medical redshirt for last year and will start next year as a redshirt freshman.  Darren Lee and Michael Hill are in the same boat.  They both played in games last year but were then hurt.  They will both also be given medical redshirts and start next year as redshirt freshmen.

Underwood was hurt last year and took his redshirt year (he did not redshirt as a freshman).  He will be a 4th year junior next year.

+1 HS
45OH4IO's picture

Yeah, there will be more than enough space come August. There will probly be some shakeups during and after Spring practices as playing time realizations hit kids. Some of them may not love the school (which makes them INSANE) lol. Things will be fine. Honestly, they may get under the limit and throw a scholly or two to walk ons. In my opinion, OSUs problem is depth, not surplus.

+1 HS
KBonay's picture

Tenn coaches saw this thread and thought they had to get to 82, as in newly signed prospects.  They failed by only reaching 35.....

+7 HS
BuckeyeJ's picture

This has been asked before, but then where does Jeff Green come in at? According to what i have read, if he had done everything he was suppose to do, Coach was going to give him a scholly? 

And i think like above. There will be some loose out on playing time and want to move on, then you have the Baugh situation

-1 HS
Ericgobucks's picture

With Mitchell's departure, we are again shown Urban knows what he is doing and is NOT over-signing. 

+2 HS
45OH4IO's picture

Yep. Some things you see coming. If the Bucks lose too many more guys, they'll end up UNDERsigned!

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gonzogrover's picture

So the link for the scholarship thread is still there but I am now getting an error page. This is something I do not like.

+2 HS
buckeyeboy31's picture

my guess is that they are updating it as there seemed to be some errors on it

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buckeyedude's picture

Meh. I think Urban has this.

 

 

-1 HS