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Ohio State Basketball Forum

Ohio State men's and women's basketball discussion.

Here's the Straight Dope Fans

rls321321's picture
February 12, 2014 at 1:33am

Amir Williams is not a Div 1 player. He’s large, un-athletic and that is all that he is.. Trey McDonald is slightly better and should getting a least 20 minutes a game. Thad is so afraid that Trey will foul that he stubbornly refuses to play him. I don’t care is he’s 3 inches shorter. Next years class has no decent post player. All guards and a jump shooting forward. And a center that is considered a project The next issue I have with Matta is that Ross would have been developed last year instead of when he’s junior you would have a much better player and team. Ross should have been playing 17-18 minutes per game last year., not 6-8 minutes a game. It made no sense not to develop him last year.

Good thing Thad is a great recruiter b/c unfortunately he’s average at everything else.

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gonzogrover's picture

A coach doesn't win as many games as Thad Matta has by just being a god recruiter. All teams have down years and we're spoiled to consider a season like this as a disappointment. Everything will be alright.

+7 HS
OSU_ALUM_05's picture

Buckeye Basketball timeline prior to Thad Matta:

Fred Taylor, Jerry Lucas and Co. / National Championship.



Jimmy Jackson.


Michael Redd / Scooney Penn

NCAA problems.

Thad Matta era - nothing but good things to say from me.



Yeti's have feelings too.

+23 HS
FitzBuck's picture

This sums up my thoughts up nicely.  Thank you.  I will never understand anyone that can complain about Thad and his accomplishments.  

Fitzbuck | Toledo - Ohio's right armpit | "A troll by any other name is still a troll".

Scarlet_Lutefisk's picture

Ever notice that when someone makes a production of saying they're just 'being honest', telling the 'Truth' or giving 'the straight dope' it's usually just an excuse to go on an attack based on half truths & maniacal ramblings and is anything but honest or straight?



+20 HS
Jason Priestas's picture

Whenever someone registers with an account name along those lines: "THE_TRUTH," "TELLING_IT_LIKE_IT_IS" or similar, I delete the account without even activating it.

OSU_ALUM_05's picture


Yeti's have feelings too.

+5 HS
PittBuckeye's picture

Now just how would we have noticed that?

+2 HS
sb97's picture

You sir, have earned an upvote

Seattle Linga's picture

Kind of like "I don't mean to offend anybody but" - uh oh here it comes.

+1 HS
Ericgobucks's picture

Do you think these kinds of posts come from established users who don't want to get destroyed over helmet stickers? 

kareemabduljacobb's picture

Well, you say Ross should have been playing 17-18 mins a game last year to prepare him for this year... He averaged 16.9 mins/gm last season (so basically 17).

+8 HS
rls321321's picture


I meant in Big Ten play. My mistake, we all know Matta plays everyone in pre-conference games. Minutes in big ten play show you how much Thad trusts a player. His minutes last year in conference play were 6-8 per game.



-7 HS
Phoenix824's picture

NO offense RLS your math makes no sense.    I will just use some numbers if he averaged 16.9 minutes last year at say 34 games that is 575 minutes.     If we go on your high end for Big Play of 8 minutes for 18 games.   That is 144 minutes.     That means during the non-conference schedule he would have had to average 27 minutes a game.    575-144= 431 minutes played during 16 non-conference games.    Can you tell me where to find a chart of his minutes so that I can see for myself that they decreased that dramatically?   BTW I did not figured BIG Tourney games or NCAA games in my 34 game total since I would assume that in that crunch time if he went from 27 minutes in non-conference to 8 minutes in BIG play it would be even a lower average in tourney play since those game have less margin for error and Thad would trust his players even less that if they were playing say Northwestern or Penn State

+1 HS
rls321321's picture

Phoenix 824,

Respectively, his non conference minutes would not be included if you are looking for his Big Ten average, which i stated( in my previous post) is what i am trying to find. I was going on my guess from of watching every Big Ten game regarding his minutes. But I will see if i can find every box score in Big Ten games and average his minutes for 2012-2013.



-6 HS
Nicholas Jervey's picture

Here were Ross's numbers from Big Ten games last year, including the Big Ten Tournament:

Date team minutes
1/2 Nebraska 20
1/5 Illinois 15
1/8 Purdue 9
1/13 Michigan 3
1/19 Michigan St. 11
1/22 Iowa 20
1/26 Penn St. 15
1/29 Wisconsin 20
2/2 Nebraska 15
2/5 Michigan 23
2/10 Indiana 21
2/14 Northwestern 13
2/17 Wisconsin 16
2/20 Minnesota 22
2/24 Michigan St. 14
2/28 Northwestern 5
3/5 Indiana 13
3/10 Illinois 9
3/15 Nebraska 19
3/16 Michigan St. 15
3/17 Wisconsin 19

That's 317 total minutes, or 15 minutes a game. Excluding the Big Ten Tournament, it's 14.7 points a game. I'm not sure where 6-8 minutes comes from, other than perception.

Ceci n'est pas une signature.

LouBuck35's picture


I want a fall Saturday in Ohio Stadium..

+2 HS
InvertMyVeer's picture

This is the first post since we switched that makes miss being able to dv a post. Buckeye basketball has flourished under Matta, we win 20+ games a year and are a virtual lock for the tourney, multiple big ten titles. His defenses are always impressive too and that is coaching not recruiting. Next time you post do some research instead of throwing bs out there, Q averaged 16.9 minutes a game last year.

Football is complicated...

+9 HS
brylee's picture

This is the first post since we switched that makes miss being able to dv a post.

Damn...I was thinking the same thing...

Very incoherent rambling

+3 HS
Poison nuts's picture

Some people will just always be this way...

"Do not pass me, just slow down - I can move right through you" Superchunk - Precision Auto.

+1 HS
mh277907's picture

I'm really glad you took the time to do some research. Q averaged 16.9 minutes a game last year and you are high if you think Trey McDonald is better than Amir Williams. Just a complete clown post all around. Nice job.


+2 HS
Optimistic Buckeye Pessimist's picture

Q is just as much a key to this team as he is a thorn in its side.  There is not one player on this team that is the rose within a manure patch.  This team is just not cohesive.  We saw what they could do in the first part of the game when they play like a team and then we saw what they can do when they don't play like a team.

Read my entire screen name....

Squirrel Master's picture

Yeah because Amir Williams is the reason this team can't shoot from outside. Perfect logic!

I saw a UFO once.......it told me to have a goodyear!

+3 HS
trock's picture

Amir has actually been playing pretty good basketball of late. He isn't where we thought he would be when he signed with OSU, but he hasn't been the reason we lost.

+2 HS
rls321321's picture


Amir is a 6'11' guy with absolutely no moves moves. He can dunk and lay the ball

of the glass. OSU has no post presence whatsoever.



-8 HS
PittBuckeye's picture

So let me get this straight, you're saying Amir Williams is a young Dwight Howard? Because that's what you just described.

Jack Fu's picture

Amir has actually been playing pretty good basketball of late. He isn't where we thought he would be when he signed with OSU, but he hasn't been the reason we lost.

We get blinded a little bit because we watch them every game and we think we know what to expect, so it's occasionally good to see the team through the eyes of the enemy, who is trying to beat you (or, in this case, succeeded in beating you). The primary reason OSU lost is that they gave up 1.19 points per possession (they average about 1.00). The primary reason they gave up that much is that Michigan got so goddamned many offensive rebounds. In opponent site MGoBlog's view, the primary reason Michigan got so goddamned many offensive rebounds is that Amir Williams basically has no idea what he's doing out there. From their post-game review:

Spike Albrecht only got four minutes, picking up another turnover and missing one shot. HOWEVA, that missed shot should be credited as an assist, as he drove into the lane and put it so high off the window that there was little chance of a bucket. He did this because Amir Williams tries to block everything. Amir Williams tried to block it; the ball went directly to Morgan on the weakside; Morgan actually made the layup.


Amir Williams. There's no nice way to say this. He is not all there. OSU has yanked him from long stretches of games for defensive incompetence; in this one Michigan's two centers picked up seven OREBs despite being much smaller and less athletic. He also committed one of history's worst fouls when he ran over Walton with the shot clock expiring on a critical possession down the stretch.

I remember Williams getting yanked from the M-OSU game at Crisler two years ago after some comically bad defensive possessions, and while he has improved somewhat from that point he remains a massively frustrating guy prone to fits of ain't-care. I know this because I was rooting for OSU in their game against MSU and built up large reserves of loathing for his game.

And after watching the game in full for a second time:

Rewatching the Ohio State game made one thing clear: Amir [Williams] tries to block everything. I mentioned the Morgan basket on a missed Albrecht shot that was functionally equivalent to a pass as Williams came over. That is a canonical example but far from the only one. About ten minutes into the first half it became clear that OSU's defensive rebounding problems were about 80% Williams attempting to swat everything, leaving Michigan bigs all alone on the weakside.

The offensive rebound numbers don't even tell the full story, as there were a number of instances in which Michigan was in position to add to their totals until funny bounces intervened. The numbers back this up, especially if you tick over to the conference only Kenpom stats. Ohio State is 11th in the league at defensive rebounding. And it doesn't even help their defense. In league play OSU is 10th at defending twos.

I tend to agree with them. He's just not good, and it's primarily because he seems to have next-to-no basketball IQ. There are many reasons OSU is only a borderline top-25 team this year. Our guards' inability to shoot is certainly one of them. Williams being not very good is another. The OP is an idiot if he thinks Thad isn't a great coach, but the players this year, for whatever reason, just aren't up to the lofty standards Thad has established. So it goes.

+4 HS
OSUStu's picture

Pretty much a completely fair and accurate assessment from MGo.

If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them.  ~ Bruce Lee

Zimmy07's picture

I heard essentially the same thing from an Iowa fan after our first loss to them.  He said all the Iowa players just stepped to the side of Williams "box outs" and then slide in front of him to get the rebounds.

RedStorm45's picture

You must have missed McDonald graze rim from 5 feet last night.

+1 HS
buckeyebowhunter's picture

Matta is one of the best coaches in the country and we should thank our lucky stars we have him.  He has recruited some of the best players in the history of buckeye basketball.  I think many have become spoiled by Thad and forget the shape we were in when he took over.  With that said this is definitely not the best team in the Thad reign.  He failed to recruit/develop shooters for the past two seasons and has struck out on a great deal of big men leaving us very undermanned underneath.  I fully expect Thad to fix this problem.  He's just too good of a coach and recruiter not to.  

+1 HS
TheBadOwl's picture

Comma usage, man. Reading the title, I thought this was a thread for heterosexual pot enthusiasts.

When I walked in this morning and saw the flag was at half mast I thought, "Alright, another bureaucrat ate it." but then I saw it was Li'l Sebastian. Half mast is too high. Show some damn respect.

+2 HS
SweetBabyJames's picture

as long as david bell doesnt bring the ball down every time he catches it and can lift some weights he should be fine....im exited for him

+1 HS
sb97's picture

I am also excited for Bell.  I think it is good to bring in some bigs that will be projects like a Terwilliger, McDonald, or Bell.  One and done players are great and I am glad we had guys like Oden and Sullinger (two and done) but it helps to have some guys that are in the program for a long time to give some stability and depth.

One thing about Bell, it seems like the common belief is that he will red shirt next season.  I really can't see it.  First off, with the way Williams and McDonald rack up fouls Matta really needs a third post.  Second, after next season Amir and Trey will have graduated leaving Bell as the only post player with any time in the system.  Methinks Matta will want to get Bell as much game experience as possible for the following season.

+1 HS
Mortc15's picture

I just had to laugh about this post. OSU plays in the same conference as a great coach and program in Izzo and MSU, Wisc, UM and OSU is the team that's been to, what is it, 4 straight conference title games(?) and somehow Matta isn't a good coach because of that? Some years are just better than others and this year OSU is weak in some key areas.

Some people need to get a clue. Dang.


Jack Fu's picture

OSU is the team that's been to, what is it, 4 straight conference title games(?)

Five straight and seven out of eight. OSU has made the conference championship game in seven of Thad's nine seasons as OSU's coach.

+1 HS
FitzBuck's picture

Sooooo fire Fickell Thad?

Fitzbuck | Toledo - Ohio's right armpit | "A troll by any other name is still a troll".

FitzBuck's picture

Damn it the strike function isn't showing up.  Now that post looks even dumber.  

Fitzbuck | Toledo - Ohio's right armpit | "A troll by any other name is still a troll".

Phoenix824's picture

The only thing I will agree on with the OP is that next years class does not have a great post player and lack of at least two serviceable post players appears to me to be our biggest problem.   If our smalls are not hitting the three then anyone driving for the bucket gets crashed down on and we don't have a big that can rebound the ball consistently.   I would never say Trey McDonald is better than "Stonehands" Williams but Amir is serviceable at best right now.  He is much better than last year but we need him to turn some corner and live up to his potential for us to go anywhere in the NCAA's     We see glimpses of it but nothing consistent.      Without a consistent big our guards just take contested threes and it hurts us.    

HYDEYOKIDS's picture

True but there is still a chance we could hit on Myles Turner which would turn next years class into possibly the best class Thad has fielded.

wademccoy's picture

Just like Jimmy Jacksons kid came here.

Ericgobucks's picture

So our "bad" season is being ranked in the top 25? We are spoiled to have fans thinking like this. We will be back in championship form very soon. Thad has the wheel firmly grasped. 

+1 HS
Seattle Linga's picture

Agreed been saying that for a month now. We have been spoiled

Ericgobucks's picture

I do feel better after getting the straight dope. 

+1 HS
osu07asu10's picture

This is the kind of forum topic that really makes me miss the ability to UV/DV them (coughJasoncough =)...

CJDPHoS Board of Directors // Best friends with Homey Hache

The 0 is silent.

Travis's picture

So Rls... what program do you run?

You seem to know a lot about player development, you must be a D1 coach yourself right?

I hope you realize that if this team had a Jon Diebler we would be a top 5 or top 7 team.

Also, I hope you realize that when this team amps up it's defense... it's insane. 

Our losses have been because we can't hit a shot. And it's not like these guys aren't open, they just don't hit. Today's loss was largely due to missed free throws down the stretch and TTUN having one of the best halves in 3-Pt shooting I've ever seen.

They need a 2 to tie, a 3 to win it; Sylvester for threeeee... OOOOOOOOOHHHHHH OHHHHHHHHHHH WITH FIVE POINT ONE TO GO!!!

Jack Fu's picture

You know what, you're right. We're awesome. Buying my ticket for the final four now. And if we don't make it there, I can bill it to you, right?