Ohio State Athletics Forum

Ohio State Athletics Forum

Ohio State hockey, baseball, wrestling, track, and other athletics discussion.

LouBuck35's picture

I'm good, thanks.

I want a fall Saturday in Ohio Stadium..

+32 HS
Byaaaahhh's picture

Shouldn't we let the evidence decide whether or not he should be reinstated...?

+9 HS
Fatpants's picture

Bad form. I'm forever soured on change.org after the endless petitions started by the Paterno People to "right the wrongs" done to him.

+8 HS
OSUStu's picture

I think they allow people to start petitions for just about any anything.  It is hard to blame the website for whatever ends up on there.

If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them.  ~ Bruce Lee

+1 HS
TheBadOwl's picture

People complain about the ineffectiveness of change.org, but honestly, with all of the stupid petitions people put up there, maybe it's a good thing that they never work.

When I walked in this morning and saw the flag was at half mast I thought, "Alright, another bureaucrat ate it." but then I saw it was Li'l Sebastian. Half mast is too high. Show some damn respect.

+7 HS
Tater_Schroeder's picture

I appreciate the intentions on this one, but I'm confident it will fall on deaf ears.

How Firm Thy Friendship

+3 HS
J.Mo's picture

I know this is as close to what happened at Penn State as human rights are to North Korea but Ohio State fans defending Jon Waters is starting to look a lot like Penn State fans defending Joe Paterno. I thought Jon Waters did an exceptional job with the half-time shows the past two seasons but TBDBITL's dirty laundry is now being aired to the public and the University really has no other choice than to get new leadership.

About the same thing happened with the last Cheerleading coach... fired because of the actions of others.Failed to maintain control of the program. When there are allegations of a sexual nature within a group such as TBDBITL or cheerleading, the University needs to be strict about it.

+9 HS
clogan1032's picture

I feel people sign some of these petitions without really thinking about what they are putting their name to and not just agreeing with, but fighting for.  An investigation has taken place and found a litany of wrong doing, and those band members, those students deserve better.  To fight to keep him, no matter how good he was at one aspect of his job probably would compromise an individual's principles regarding college student.  If my son or daughter were a band member at Ohio State there is no way I would be able to support this guy.  I urge you to read the report, and think about what you are defending and standing up for.  Sorry, can't do it.

+12 HS
Buckeye in Illini country's picture

I have read the report.  Some of things are pretty damning, especially some of the "tricks".  However, based on what I have read, there and elsewhere, and from friends in the band (particularly recently) and others, I believe he was wrongfully fired, as he was making efforts to change the band; this type of change cannot happen "over night".  Also, the report included very few people who were interviewed or acted as witnesses, especially for such a large organization, making the report seem one-sided.  I think he should be put on probation, suspended, docked pay, etc; firing is too harsh and will not do a thing to change the culture as current/ future band members would resist the change.  Give him time, now that he knows the University won't stand for it, to make the changes.  Just one man's opinion, and I thought I'd offer an avenue for others who may agree with me to do something about it, though like Tater_Schroeder stated, it will likely fall on deaf ears.

Columbus to Pasadena: 35 hours.  We're on a road trip through the desert looking for strippers and cocaine... and Rose Bowl wins!

+4 HS
clogan1032's picture

I can agree with change not happening overnight, but when there is inaction, change will never happen.  That is what we have here, an inaction to facilitate a change.  The inaction was so bad that a staffer resigned from his position because nothing was being done to change a culture that had grown well out of control.  Your belief didn't fall on deaf ears, not with me, I just disagree with it.  Good luck with the petition.  

+2 HS
Buckeye in Illini country's picture

From what I've heard, that is not the case, and that Jon was enacting change within the band.  Perhaps, just too slowly.  I don't know first hand.  

Columbus to Pasadena: 35 hours.  We're on a road trip through the desert looking for strippers and cocaine... and Rose Bowl wins!

+2 HS
Squirrel Master's picture

not going to happen. US dept of Education is making it so that Universities are doing more of this. Waters should have seen that or listened to what the administration was telling him.

plus I won't sign it because I think he was fired justly.

I saw a UFO once.......it told me to have a goodyear!

+4 HS
703Buckeye's picture

Unless there is some new info I'm missing, there's no way I'm signing that.

"Attack the Strong, Trample the Weak, Hurdle the Dead!"
-Former OSU S&C Coach Lichter

+8 HS
DJ Byrnes's picture

Californian by birth, Marionaire by the Grace of President Warren G. Harding.

TheBadOwl's picture

Now in .gif form!

When I walked in this morning and saw the flag was at half mast I thought, "Alright, another bureaucrat ate it." but then I saw it was Li'l Sebastian. Half mast is too high. Show some damn respect.

+3 HS
BroJim's picture

No thank you. 

I season my simple food with hunger

+2 HS
jamesrbrown322's picture

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts." - Winston Churchill

+4 HS
Grayskullsession's picture

"if irony were made of strawberries, we' d all be drinking a lot of smoothies right now."

+3 HS
Mizzillion's picture

Ummmm....  yeah, no.

+9 HS
Earle's picture

I'll see your Emma, 

and raise you one J-Law:

Just say no to italics abuse.

+7 HS
Mizzillion's picture

Well done, Earle.

I'm all in....

+4 HS
Earle's picture

I wondered if I might be breaking some sort of site protocol by putting gifs of both in the same post, but since 9Route's fraud has been revealed, I don't care about the rules anymore.

Just say no to italics abuse.

+7 HS
BrewstersMillions's picture

Take a job that prevents regular posting\reading on 11W and I miss something. What happened with 9Route?

Do I come off as arrogant? Shame on me, I was hoping it would more obvious.

OSU_ALUM_05's picture

search for the "sock puppet" thread .... there you'll find the twisted tales of deception

sharks's picture

He's the best band director in the game, so I'm sure the administration didn't act rashly. I'll defer.

The postgame show is brought to you by... Christ, I can't find it. The hell with it...

Jeeves's picture

I would sign a real petition but has there ever been an instance when anything has ever been accomplished by that site?

+1 HS
bbb's picture

You social justice warrior, you. How cute

+2 HS
TheBadOwl's picture

Considering the content of the Dispatch's report, this is basically being a social anti-justice warrior...

When I walked in this morning and saw the flag was at half mast I thought, "Alright, another bureaucrat ate it." but then I saw it was Li'l Sebastian. Half mast is too high. Show some damn respect.

-2 HS
bbb's picture
-1 HS
osu07asu10's picture

I'll let the uber-cute and timeless "Stop" Girl deliver my message...

"They don't know what they don't know." - Coach Mick

+17 HS
sharks's picture

<3

The postgame show is brought to you by... Christ, I can't find it. The hell with it...

+5 HS
Buckeyeneer's picture

I always assumed she was saying, "No!" because she had been caught being "the sad fan in the crowd" by the camera.

"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes

THE Ohio State University

+2 HS
osu07asu10's picture

"They don't know what they don't know." - Coach Mick

+1 HS
Buckeyeneer's picture

Interesting. I would have never guessed she was saying, "Stop" . . . I still like my interpretation better . . . though only because one of my go to lines in the fourth quarter when the Buckeyes are up is, "And cue the sad fans!" as that seems to be what all the networks cut to when the game is about over.

"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes

THE Ohio State University

KBonay's picture

Takes on a whole different vibe backwards.

+7 HS
rdubs's picture

backwards gifs are my favorite.  I think this one takes the cake though:

+4 HS
Groveport Heisman's picture

You guys are ruining everything for me. I thought for sure this chic was saying. "Stop,take it out.Its way too big."

Mark my words..I don't need acceptance. I'm catching interceptions on you innocent pedestrians.

-10 HS
osu07asu10's picture

She's saying whatever you want her to GPH

"They don't know what they don't know." - Coach Mick

+1 HS
brandonbauer87's picture

Discussion about the manner in which he was fired? I'll partake. Petition to get him reinstated? Nah. 

+5 HS
labuck's picture

No Whammies! No Whammies! No Whammies! Stop!!

Ahhhhhhhhhh...    heee heee heee heee heee heee

Whammy!

+2 HS
M Man's picture

I'll wait for Jonathan Waters v. The Board of Trustees of the Ohio State University.

+6 HS
Earle's picture

Of course you would.

Just say no to italics abuse.

+4 HS
Buckeye in Illini country's picture

Me.

Columbus to Pasadena: 35 hours.  We're on a road trip through the desert looking for strippers and cocaine... and Rose Bowl wins!

+2 HS
MikeEagleBuckeye's picture

As someone close to the band and members, it's unfortunate that this report has painted the band in such a bad light and given a sour impression to the public that isn't as familiar with the inner workings of the band when really it couldn't be farther from the truth.  This organization has touched the lives of so many and the people that come out of it are model citizens, even if it doesn't seem that way in the report.  This is why so many alumni and band members have stuck their necks out for Jon.  My heart goes out to the band and the Waters family, who is surely hurting right now.

+6 HS
M Man's picture

And for all of the reasons you suggest, my very respectful suggestion is don't bother with a Change.org petition.

Instead, tell your story(ies) as members of the band.  Point out that matters were always consensual.  That there were no "assaults," and no "harassment."  Get women alumnae/members of the band involved in that.

I got yelled at in the original 400+ post thread by a band member who thought it unseemly that I had printed the Unofficial Songbook to take to my next tailgate.  Don't protest.  And don't yell at me (or the Dispatch).  Instead, tell your story.

I still haven't figured out if there is a single band-member complainant in all of this.  Is there a single woman or man who is actively complaining about being mistreated?  We've got the mother of one band member.  Check.  We've got the old case of an alleged sexual assault (a seemingly middle school-grade "assault") in which Waters personally intervened and suspended the purported offender and duly reported the matter to compliance.  Check.  What else?  What else is there supposed to be?

Again,  I can be (as a rival) a sarcastic and critical observer.  Or (as someone who staked his reputation on promising that he'd defend an OSU "defendant" as vigorously as he defended, for lack of any better shorthand, Brendan Gibbons) I can make the legalistic point that this is all Title IX politics.  Mostly, I have opted for the latter.  I do think this is all Title IX politics.  But "Title IX politics" and $2.85 will get Jon Waters a cup of coffee.*

What's needed is a counter-narrative, and I for one would be very happy to get it from someone with real experience like you.

*Edit.:  I re-read this.  On second thought, to the extent that "this is all Title IX politics," it might get Jon Waters more than a $2.85 cup of coffee.  It might get him a $2.85 million judgment. 

+7 HS
osu07asu10's picture

What's needed is a counter-narrative, and I for one would be very happy to get it from someone with real experience like you.

M Man, I think the problem with that is the counter-narrative that you'll receive will be just as accurate and true as the investigation and what we know to this point.

Should the band be defined by it's "sexualized culture", sex tricks, and raunchy nicknames? Of course not. Are those ALL the band stood for? Absolutely not. Did Waters and does the band provide members a place to grow, mature, and learn life lessons that they will carry with them for the rest of time? It sure does.

The thing is though, that doesn't change the facts that unacceptable behavior led to an established culture not becoming of university or program.

I can sit here and rattle off any number of examples of what made Coach Tressel a great man. Hell, the morning after he suffered what will go down as one of the worst on-field beatings of his career, I watched Coach Tressel in the lobby of the Fairmont Princess with that "gee schucks" smile hugging my Mom, telling OTHERS it will be OK. You can point to literally thousands of OSUMC patients visited by Tressel and his teams. His players can feed you story after story about the man who cares.

Those stories, as touching, accurate, and representative of Coach Tressel can't change the fact that he knowingly misled NCAA investigators and committed violations that led to his ouster as a coach and subsequent show cause penalty.

My point is, the band isn't ONLY what is being reported. However, the positive things the band does for members, community, students, staff, etc do not off-set, justify, or ameliorate the wrong caused by their collective actions.

I'm confident in TBDBITL to rebound from this and be stronger than ever.  I hope that Waters has the opportunity to continue quite a decorated career and he should. However, nothing will reverse the decision by administration. I think it is important for TBDBITL to remember the good they do for that is their true purpose. Any member past or present that isn't committed to correcting the wrong and promoting the good has truly missed what TBDBITL is all about.

"They don't know what they don't know." - Coach Mick

+2 HS
M Man's picture

M Man, I think the problem with that is the counter-narrative that you'll receive will be just as accurate and true as the investigation and what we know to this point.

And does the report identify any victims?  Or does it declare that a particular culture is unacceptable?

I've framed that in what I think is a non-rhetorical way; such that we both might agree with the latter question.  OSU's Office of Compliance and Integrity declared a "culture" as unacceptable.  Based on the federal standards it has to comply with, in order to get its pot of federal money.  I expect a lot of the readership here will say, Yes that is exactly what is supposed to happen... Title IX is intended to rid institutions of higher education of certain cultures.

And that is precisely where this all gets social/political/philosophical.  Because I haven't seen any victims.

+2 HS
osu07asu10's picture

OSU's Office of Compliance and Integrity declared a "culture" as unacceptable.  Based on the federal standards it has to comply with, in order to get its pot of federal money.  

Forget Title IX MMan. Flat out, do you think the culture described in the report is acceptable? If so, we're not going to come to an agreement on this.

Title IX is the vehicle that drove the decision. Blaming Title IX is a cheap easy way out. Bottom line, the culture was unacceptable, period.

And that is precisely where this all gets social/political/philosophical.  Because I haven't seen any victims.

So in a broader sense, if a victim isn't identified for the public, a perpetrator of a crime then should be innocent because the public's burn for knowledge wasn't satisfied?

I get your points, and truthfully I think you've done a fantastic job of representing the other side of the argument. End of the day though, the culture was wrong and it needs changed.

"They don't know what they don't know." - Coach Mick

+1 HS
M Man's picture

I've said this before, elsewhere, but I'll say it again and with the utmost respect.

We sort of know how this kind for thing gets handled without the Obama-era (Post-April 2011) Title IX rubric.  We know, because we saw how Wisconsin handled it, in 2006 and 2008.  Band members were punished.  Trips were curtailed.  Bus behavior was policed.  The entire band show was canceled on the occasion of their big night game in Camp Randall versus the Buckeyes.  But the director wasn't fired.  They could do all that, because UW didn't have to throw a human sacrifice to the gods of Title IX.  Wisconsin could use its own institutional judgment.

I'd have absolutely no problem with OSU handling this situation, as they see fit, on their own.  If that meant terminating Waters, so be it.  You haven't seen me using the blog to proclaim the beauty of ribald song lyrics and midnight marches in your underwear.  (That's what my tailgates are for, but I digress...)

OSU -- and I say this with all seriousness -- had to do something dramatic because I suspect they made a calculation that they had to do something dramatic for the sake of Title IX enforcers.  Waters was the sacrificial lamb.

+1 HS
osu07asu10's picture

 They could do all that, because UW didn't have to throw a human sacrifice to the gods of Title IX.  Wisconsin could use its own institutional judgment.

Or maybe they could do this because their Band Director was committed to change? Also (and I have to claim ignorance), the band were punished for acts, not a culture. It appears the punishment got the point across.

You don't know and I don't know all of what was said between Waters and the administration behind closed doors and we may never will.

Conveniently you didn't answer my question regarding if such behavior was acceptable however it was largely rhetorical because I think we both know you feel that way.

I really do respect the argument you've presented, it just doesn't change that the culture and behavior was wrong. I think that Waters didn't feel that way and he wasn't committed to effectively changing it. Therefor there was only one viable option to accomplish the necessary change and that is doing it without Waters.

I'll respect your plight against Title IX, but I won't use it as a cheap excuse for eliminating a culture that was long overdue for change. 

"They don't know what they don't know." - Coach Mick

+5 HS
rdubs's picture

Agreed OSU07, had Waters done something similar and suspended a bunch of people or the whole band then he would still have his job.  The whole thing hinged on the fact that he knew or should have known about what was happening and yet didn't take enough action to curtail the behavior.

+1 HS
Buckeye in Illini country's picture

I appreciate your insight M Man and we definitely agree for the most part on this.  Not too much else that a Buckeye alumnus in Illinois can do about the situation.  I guess I could email President Drake/ the Board, but in my opinion, that would likely fall on more deaf ears than signing/ spreading a large petition would.

Columbus to Pasadena: 35 hours.  We're on a road trip through the desert looking for strippers and cocaine... and Rose Bowl wins!

+1 HS
MikeEagleBuckeye's picture

Not necessarily saying that change.org is an effective way to go about this, rather I just wanted to get out what I wanted to say.  It's been a tough time recently for the band.  For the record, I have seen multiple female members/alumni stand up and speak out against it.  I highly recommend the story of this young woman:

http://www.thebuckeyebattlecry.com/2014/07/a-former-band-member-named-in-the-tbdbitl-investigation-report-speaks/

She also sent this to Dr. Drake.

+3 HS
M Man's picture

Exactly what I was talking about.

"A lie will be halfway around the world before the truth gets its boots on..."  ~ Mark Twain (att. Jonathan Swift and C.H. Spurgeon)

Buckeye in Illini country's picture

A couple more members as well.  Nothing in these stories or in the one-sided report, to me, deem it necessary to fire the man; other things could more reasonably have been done.

http://www.thebuckeyebattlecry.com/2014/07/more-former-tbdbitl-members-s...

Columbus to Pasadena: 35 hours.  We're on a road trip through the desert looking for strippers and cocaine... and Rose Bowl wins!

+3 HS
osu07asu10's picture

Jlaw: They're just Joobs...relax!

EDIT: Mind you that DJ referenced Joobs in the skully today...

"They don't know what they don't know." - Coach Mick

-3 HS
MikeEagleBuckeye's picture

I'm sorry but this is exactly what that woman meant by saying she never felt sexualized by her nickname until it was put into the report. Don't think it is appropriate the appropriate time or place for a gif like that.

+1 HS
osu07asu10's picture

You're absolutely right. I'm sure that none of the other 254 band members ever meant that in a sexual way, or called her that due to her heritage or body size...

Because of this heinous report, she was forced to expose the identity of Joobs to the masses, and now face such ridicule and satire as a JLaw GIF...

However, sex tricks and hate lists are part of confidence building and team bonding exercises justified by the end result and good the band effuses, is that correct?

"They don't know what they don't know." - Coach Mick

+1 HS
Buckeye in Illini country's picture

I didn't even make the connection, but her dad, Prof. Clark, was one my professors in materials science and engineering.  He was one of the best professors I had.

http://vimeo.com/channels/westandwithjonwaters

Columbus to Pasadena: 35 hours.  We're on a road trip through the desert looking for strippers and cocaine... and Rose Bowl wins!

Jeeves's picture

M-Man you are consistently one of the best posters on this site. I am sorry that so many people give you stick simply because of your alma mater.

+7 HS
Hovenaut's picture

Second that, Jeeves...well said. Countering the downer (Bias does not trump respect in my book).

I sometimes forget M Man is a fan of the arch rivals, good thing his user name was available. Either way, I appreciate the insight...you bring it all to the table.

Hate Week runneth over

+4 HS
Poison nuts's picture

Jeeves, there was a time when I absolutely agreed with you on that. And when it comes just to talking sports, I still do. But I'll say this, I take exception to the manner in which he's been outwardly discussing politics lately. That's a no no here (supposed to be anyhow) & I for one hate it on this particular site. My feelings of contempt for some of those comments & tactics have nothing at all to do with what school he went to or likes. Nothing. Hell, my wife is a UM girl. I can look past that. But bringing up politics time & again -- HERE...that I can't look past. While I have not been one of those who are apparently DVing all his posts, I do cringe when I see some of the blatantly political comments. I like to think that nobody has a damn clue what my political beliefs are here...& I'd really like it if I didn't know anyone else's. Sorry if I'm being a bit of a jerk on this. I mean, it's great to be nice to other posters & see the positive in them, but sometimes it's equally important to be honest enough to point out the bad.

BTW: +1s to you & Hove for being righteous dudes either way.

"Do not pass me, just slow down - I can move right through you" Superchunk - Precision Auto.

+7 HS
Groveport Heisman's picture

Poison Nuts is 100% correct. I actually love M Man's take on football,but when it comes to him defending Brendan Gibbons and trashing a potential sexual assault victim(who was a UM athlete herself) that went on to lead a advocacy group against rape then it goes to extremes. And his constant takes on things like Lewans current case are pure and utter bullshit(doesn't think a pure Ann Arbor jury will matter much). The guy is a lawyer and a pure homer to the 100th degree when it comes to anything political. As a football fan he usually has a honest take or at least plays possum pretty well. Some people only want to see what they want too or have a very short memory.

Mark my words..I don't need acceptance. I'm catching interceptions on you innocent pedestrians.

+1 HS
M Man's picture

100% wrong.

  • I've said this any number of times; I have no basis to "defend" Gibbons, just as the fanboyz have no basis to declare him a "rapist."  What I said about Gibbons was that his case was reopened more three years later due to the new Title IX dictates.  The University of Michigan's official statement agrees with me on that.
  • And what I said in the case of Gibbons, for benefit of the 11W readers, was that I'd take the same position for any OSU athlete (because who thought of the band?) when a Title IX investigation visited Columbus.  I told you it would.  And I think I've made good on the pledge to take a consistent position, regardless of the name of the school in question.
  • The extent of my political writing has been to say, "This is a political matter."  Any discussion of Gibbons' case, or Waters' case, which ignores the obvious Title IX issue is a dishonest, uninformative and worthless discussion.  People can disagree about the merits.  Or not even discuss the political merits.  (Where have I delivered any long political diatribes?)  I've kept that part as respectful as anyone could ever hope.  But really; shutting down the acknowledgment that "there's a political angle" pushes the discussion into idiocy.
  • I don't think I have started a single "Lewan" thread.  Here's my latest response to somebody else's thread.  See if anything I wrote was unthinking homerism.
  • One last thing; about my "trashing a potential sexual assault victim."  My assignment for you is to find, and quote, the most negative thing that you can find that I have written about her.  I can tell you right now that the assignment is impossible.  You can take on the assignment, or you can take back what you wrote.

A tip of my winged helmet: I don't presume that any of my articulate critics (and I think my critics in this thread are just that) are after me because of my alma mater.  I have a long history of being treated very decently at this site by the members and the staff.  I do think that for some, even the mere acknowledgment of there being a political angle with Title IX feels like a politically-motivated attack.  I like ElevenWarriors because the content is excellent, the discussion is usually intelligent, and there's nothing so effective at honing your own views and arguments like delivering them to a hostile audience.  I wouldn't propose to use 11W as a political soapbaox.  I would expect 11W to continue to host intelligent cfb discussions.  And I think there are a fair number of scarlet and gray members who agree with me.

osu07asu10's picture

 just as the fanboyz have no basis to declare him a "rapist."

Fanboyz? 

"They don't know what they don't know." - Coach Mick

+2 HS
M Man's picture

'Cuz the people who would, like, actually have a serious say in figuring out if he was a rapist -- the Ann Arbor Police and Washtenaw County Prosectuor's Office -- determined that they couldn't bring such a charge.

I use "fanboyz" deliberately, and without school association.  Because there are as many sensation-seeking and ludicrously prejudiced Michigan fanboyz as Ohio fanboyz.

-1 HS
jamesrbrown322's picture

Ohio has very few fanboyz to be honest. They're not even as relevant as UC.

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts." - Winston Churchill

Poison nuts's picture

I do think that for some, even the mere acknowledgment of there being a political angle with Title IX feels like a politically-motivated attack.

When you start saying "Obamabots" in multiple comments or pulling up a past comment from a poster where he mentions he was at a convention of one political party in an attempt to basically belittle them for asking you to cut out all the politics (that's how I read it - you know the comment I'm talking about) or in an attempt to validate your opinion - it's over the line. Isn't that you making your own political attack? Furthermore, because of your long standing status here, you should know better. I mean - You have no clue as to my party standing, right? I know you don't because I've never once referenced that. I aim to keep it that way. For all you know - I could agree with you. Maybe I don't. But I'm not talking about it here because this is not the platform to do so. This is a non-political, website. Those items aren't of any value to the point of the site which is to talk OSU sports. Do they report on things like the Waters' firing? Yes. It relates to OSU sports & is news. Should you use it as your opening to speak about Gibbons & Title IX & it's political slants/ramifications? No - not if you have to get into politics to do so. Your argument that you can't discuss it without making it political (which you made on the 400 comment thread) holds no water, because if you can't do that - then this simply isn't the place to do it. Period. There are a ton of sites where those discussions are encouraged. Go there to do that. Don't come here & make this site into a forum for which everyone is spewing their politics/beliefs/agendas instead of talking about the benefits of running the Dave vs. the a spread offense. Also, yes - I do believe you were glad that the firing happened in a way, just so that you could say "see I told you so - it happened at OSU - now you see how it feels" & validate your thoughts on Brendan Gibbons. That to me is just kind of overbearing. I have always enjoyed your thoughts on football & basketball. I don't agree with you always & I like that, but on this recent thing, IMHO you've crossed the line. If this is tl/dr - I don't begrudge your political views one way or another - I just don't want to read about it here.

"Do not pass me, just slow down - I can move right through you" Superchunk - Precision Auto.

+3 HS
yrro's picture

This is a political firing. It is entirely motivated by a Title IX investigation.

You can talk about whether or not we should feel outraged about the behaviors in the band without talking politics, but you can't talk about why Waters was actually fired without bringing it up.

+3 HS
Poison nuts's picture

+1 - I agree in full. That's a fair point & I can admit it's hard to talk about it in depth without bringing in politics. So my whole thing is that going elsewhere to talk about that part of it might be best. Everyone knows when they log on here, because there are multiple places here where it's mentioned, that this is not the site for political discussion. Shit...I'm turning into the Steensn of political discussions.

"Do not pass me, just slow down - I can move right through you" Superchunk - Precision Auto.

+2 HS
Whoa Nellie's picture

I'm with you, PN.  Ironically, being from Michigan has apparently conferred "diplomatic immunity" on him.  A Buckeye fanboy Obamabot would get run for posting his opposing political views.  And, rightly so. 

“Don’t fear criticism. The stands are full of critics. They play no ball. They fight no fights. They make no mistakes because they attempt nothing. Down on the field are the doers, they make mistakes because they attempt many things.”

+1 HS
Hilliard WB's picture

One important aspect  to me seems to be that (due to the time the complaint was made) the band could not be investigated when it was in session.  Witnessing the entire organization in action for a few months as opposed to when it is not even running would give a much better picture of how things were going, and how the culture was.  It's pretty important to be involved or embedded in a group for a significant time before you make a sweeping declaration about a culture problem.

And on a separate note, the Dispatch has done a very poor job of balanced reporting on this entire ordeal.  It has flipped to flat-out muckraking in a lot of ways.  There are a ton of testimonials coming from other news outlets that at least depict some other stories and experiences in the band as opposed to taking off with a single narrative and assuming the absolute worst.  

S-Row the Best Row

+6 HS
toad1204's picture

Nothing like dancing on the field in 02... 

+1 HS
robobuck's picture

let's get someone better.

Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it.  1 Corinthians 9:24

+2 HS
bleedscarlet's picture

I miss the 70s....

Today a man can be fired for letting adults flaunt their sexuality while parents buy their underage daughters skin tight yoga pants with "cutie" written across the ass. Somewhere along the way people have managed to get everything backwards.

I won't sign a petition because it's a pointless waste of time....

I'm too drunk to taste this chicken

+4 HS
Gametime's picture

I wasn't alive in the 70s, but I agree with this wholeheartedly. I have a daughter and I wouldn't dream of letting her wear yoga pants in public for any reason. Leggings aren't for everyone and I know women like to feel comfortable, but I cringe every time I see these young girls with thigh high shorts on and tops that show their midriff before they even hit puberty.

It's like they push allowing to be sexual without calling it what it is - wat?

...I too dream in color and in rhyme
So I guess I'm one of a kind in a full house
Cause whenever I open my heart, my soul or my mouth
A touch of God rains out...

+2 HS
Buckeye in Illini country's picture

http://www.nbc4i.com/story/26249658/osu-band-witness-highlights-inaccura...

The witness's letter to the university is at the bottom.

Looks like the investigation was absolutely rushed, and the conclusions of it do not hold water.

Columbus to Pasadena: 35 hours.  We're on a road trip through the desert looking for strippers and cocaine... and Rose Bowl wins!