PHONE'S RINGING -- IT'S URBAN ON THE LINE
I have literally beaten 20 dead horses about this, but this is exactly why the SEC always has a team in the title game. Because the have 6 of the top 12 OF A PRESEASON POLL. We haven't played a down of football and they are saying that the 2-6 best teams in the SEC are better than the 2nd best team in the B1G.
M*chigan barely lost to SCar, yet there is a huge discrepancy in their places in the rankings. I will tell you this now for the next 15ish weeks. We will see SEC teams lose to each other, and their rankings won't change because of that gauntlet they will have to go through. Alabama could lose 2 games and still be in the title hunt due to the fact that they have that SEC schedule. ITS EASIER THAN THE BUCKEYES.
While everyone says, "Oh it will all change when they play football", but it won't. When ranking teams the AP and Coaches can't watch every game and go based on the previous weeks ranking and how they did.
Finally, watching Lou Holtz, who I usually think sounds like a moron, but makes good points, said "Ohio State doesn't play anyone in the top 15". Lou look at Alabama's schedule they play 2 ranked teams, granted in the top 12. Honestly, one team, TA&M, is my pick for the Arkansas type meltdown, and the other LSU gets the benefit of the doubt because they play in the SEC.
Yup. I think there was an article posted somewhere a while back about how SEC dominance is really just the result of a money-making deal with ESPN. It's not SEC dominance, but ESPN and other major news/networks say it is, so people just accept it and don't really look into it to see what the real issue is.
Of course, like you said, Bama's schedule is so easy but yet nobody will admit it. It's all about the green stuff. I've watched ESPN a little bit the past couple weeks, and I've noticed more than once that someone like Dari will note that hey, Alabama only plays LSU and TAMU. Of course, the other guys just blow it off, change the subject, whatever they have to do.
How is Bama's schedule any different than what Ohio State does though? They try to schedule a big non conference foe, admittedly on a neutral site, and then they play cupcakes and conference schedule. It's not their fault that Penn State, Michigan, and Va Tech's programs went to shit at the time they played any more than it's Ohio State's fault that Cal and Miami Florida went to shit.
Bama may "only play" LSU and A&M, but those 2 games are far better than what the Buckeyes will have to face this year. This season, Northwestern has the potential to be our toughest game.
"How is Bama's schedule any different than what Ohio State does though?"
"How is Bama's schedule any different than what Ohio State does though?"
The first sentence/question is spot on. Bama has two to three tough conference games and so does OSU. Bama has only one real OCC game that being VA Tech. I can't say at the moment, but I could see San Diego St having a better record then Tech (may be). Totally different conferences but still, only one real sort of tough challenge in OCC for both teams (I "guess" you can throw in Cal, but I'm not sold on that just yet). Everyone will keep clinging to "it's Bama and tSEC" BS and I don't see that ever changing to be honest.
Some people think we’re the hunted.I don’t feel that way at all.We’re the hunter.Everybody wants an angry football team.Everybody wants a team on edge and a hungry team.If you’re a hunter,that usually equates to being hungry.
For that perception to turn around, the SEC as a whole needs to crash and burn in the future post season play-off system for multiple years while another conference flourishes. Or, you know, play in Camp Randall in January. That is something I'd love to see the SEC try to do.
The day that happens, Hell would freeze over. Literally. Nick Satan would freeze his arse off!
"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence" - Calvin Coolidge
I understand what you are saying, but quite honestly South Carolina beat a couple of really good teams last year. Michigan beat no one of significance. In fact, they lost to 5 good teams last year. They lost to Ohio State by the same margin they did South Carolina, and that was in the shoe, should they be ranked close to the Buckeyes? I think not.
I look back at last year, and watching the teams play can confidently say Texas A&M, Georgia, Florida, Bama, LSU and South Carolina were better than any B1G team last year not named Ohio State. People will disagree I'm sure because no one wants to admit that the SEC is very good.
I believed the SEC was over rated last year, then I saw how some of the big teams did in their non conference end of the season. Florida beat FSU rather easily and South Carolina dominated Clemson. Those were to top 10 schools that weren't in the SEC and the SEC school who played them, crushed them. Those 2 teams were the 2nd and 3rd best teams in the SEC east last year too.
A close bowl game a month after the season really doesn't just throw out the rest of the season. What teams from other conferences deserve to be ranked in the top 10? I say Ohio State, Oregon, Stanford, Louisville, and maybe Clemson outside the SEC possibly have a claim. Since Clemson has a tendancy to shit the bed and Louisville may just be the best team in a horrible conference though, they are shaky at best top 10 teams.
Unfortunately I agree with everything you said, and all the teams you named. I don't think the gap to the SEC is anywhere near as large as people make it out to be, but it is there.
Clemson is interesting this year. They play Georgia, Florida State, and South Carolina so they have every possible chance to pave their own way.
Frankly, my worst nightmare is a one-loss SEC champ, an undefeated Clemson, an undefeated Louisville, and an undefeated OSU. I'm honestly not sure we get in to the championship over Clemson in that scenario.i would think the juiciness of Saban vs. Meyer, OSU v Bama, would win over the voters, but we really do need the B1G to win some out of conference games convincingly this season.
I was listening to Sirius XM "College Sports" yesterday, and the guy sitting in for Tim Brando had the Buckeyes at #7, well behind Michigan at #4. I mean, come on...
It's a real mess...I use quotes because they digress into talking about MLB and NFL at times, and when they do talk college football it's mostly a lot of cheering for the SEC. And if I'm not mistaken, that's where I've heard Finebaum's show, for only a few minutes, because it's just unlistenable.
Please tell me they didn't bring Finebaum's show back. I get it that he's an SEC talk show host, but he is disgusting and hard to listen to because he's such a homer.
Hadn't heard that he was dumped. All I know it was one day last year, in the afternoon, I'm usually working around that time but I had to go to the dentist. So I listened for the short time it took to get there, but it was actually a relief to get in the dentist's chair lol. I know, I know, I could have changed channels, but it was one of those things where you keep listening a little longer because you can't believe how bad it is!
He used to be on at 3 o'clock. It wasn't him that got dumped but the company he works for. They couldn't reach an agreement with XM. Maybe his time slot just got moved.
If you are saying that Louisville is the best team in a horrible conference, then does that make Florida second best in the conference? Louisville beat them pretty handily in the bowl game.
On another point, saying can you look at bowl games months ago, my argument would be what else would you go on. Honestly, I hate these polls. I would rather see even 3 weeks of games and teams who dominate need to be up there, and teams who struggle would be down.
I guess what bothers me the most out of the poll is that Alabama gets a pass on their schedule because they play in the SEC, yet OSU plays a very similar schedule and doesn't. You can say that Alabama's games are harder, but they two games are so spread out that they have time to prepare for the next team.
We can agree to disagree, and I'm sure we will, but just how I see it.
What else would I go on? Watching non conference games where SEC teams destroyed the best teams in other conferences is a good way to judge. Plus the conference games they played. Florida beat A&M(who at the end of the season was playing as well as anyone else), LSU, and South Carolina Florida, when they had a chance to make the national championship beat FSU at FSU. Yes, they got destroyed by Louisville, who played a great game in the bowl game, but when you go from potentially playing for the national title, to a consolation bowl game, that happens sometimes.
I see what you are saying, I just don't think anyone on Ohio State's schedule is anywhere near A&M(with Manziel) and LSU and whoever Bama will play in the Conference title game. At the end of the day, Northwestern could be the best team on our schedule this year.
At the end of the day I'm just tired of people blaming the media, crying about the SEC being over rated etc. Why do they get more love than the B1G? The B1G is terrible. Why not look within and blame our programs. Fact is, Urban is the only one getting it done right now. Hoke is putting nice efforts on the recruiting trail, but he'll need to improve significantly over last year to prove he's back. The SEC is far better than the B1G. Minnesota, Iowa, Illinois, Indiana, and Purdue have just become shit shows. Wisconsin has regressed, Nebraska is middle of the road at best, MSU's best days were a couple years ago. Until the B1G gets the kind of coaching staffs that are going to go out and get it done on the recruiting trail, the B1G is going to continue to suck. That has nothing to do with the media or anything else.
It's not to say I think things are hopeless. I love what Fitzgerald is doing at Northwestern. I think Hazzel is great hire by Purdue. Those 2 plus Urban and Hoke just aren't good enough though.
The 1st poll (coaches, harris, and AP) needs to come out around the 1st week in October. That way, all the 'experts' have 5 - 6 weeks worth of data to compare and contrast team's wins and losses. However, that'll never happen.
Agreed- but we can relax because the polls mean absolutely nothing at all after this season. Ranking in any poll is not one of the factors the playoff committee has on their list of factors to consider.
just like in college bball, the polls become meaningless after this year. The committee can take the AP #3, #8, #12, and #15 if that's who they decide fit the evaluation criteria best. Ranking means nothing.
I've always thought that. The sad thing, though, is that even if there weren't official polls, they would still be there unofficially and the same outcome would occur. Until they start to get beaten handily outside of their conference, nothing will change. And that's where we come in :)
I'm shocked we are ranked this high since our coach isn't even in the top 25 in coaching and our quarterback isn't elite either.
I don't know what to read anymore.
I hope they still play the games.
(I lost my sarcastic font transmorgisfier a whole back, bear with me)
"Success - it's what you do with what you got" - Woody Hayes
I have been screaming this to my SEC fans for awhile. The SEC is NOT as dominant as it once was. You look at S.Car, UGA and other ones struggling with B1G teams in bowl games and you can see the talent level is not that much better.
Also the ranking thing is so true. Look at Texas A&M, they were a perennial 5-7 loss B12 team. This is a team that had finished in the Top 25 ONCE in the past 13 years and was never a threat to a B12 championship. Now that they are in the SEC and they are considered a powerhouse and Top 5 team.
Who in the Big 12 would of beat A&M last year? Not Texas, they sucked. A&M destroyed Oklahoma in their bowl game . If anything moving from the Big 12 to the SEC kept A&M out of the title game. In the Big 12 they never would have played Bama(who they beat),Florida or LSU. They had a lot of really good players, including arguably the best OLine in the game.
Was Ohio State over rated when they only beat Michigan by 5(the same margin South Carolina won by.
Barely beating someone or almost losing means you still won the game, and at the end of the day that's all the really matters. I honestly don't think the Nebraska game was all that close, even though the score was. Nebraska couldn't stop Georgia. Murray had 427 YDS and 5 TD's. Murray should never have those kind of stats. They won by 2 TDS, but dominated that game, especially the 2nd half.
I hate the SEC, but c'mon man,they are good. Really good. Michigan almost winning(which means they lost by the way) to South Carolina in a bowl game doesn't mean the SEC was over rated. It means it was 1 game where South Carolina didn't play that well, but still won against a B1G team giving its best shot.
Really it doesn't matter who in the B12 could have beaten them last year. They don't play in the B12 anymore. The point is that a team coming off a 6 loss season in the B12 who had lost 70 games since 2000 was able to come into the SEC and compete and parlay that into a Top 5 pre-season ranking next year. You put that same A&M team with the same 11-2 record in the B12 and they would be lucky to be Top 15 losing the guys they did and with JF's issues because voters care more about conference prestige and history when voting. eck look at ND, coming off a NCG appearence, better recruiting classes than A, a lot of returning starters and they are barely Top 15.
Two things on this one...1) You can't really be comparing the score of any rivalry game as a common opponent can you? 2) No, but the point can be made that everyone says OSU would have finished anywhere from 7-10 in the SEC yet they beat a (rival) team by the same amount of margin as a SEC powerhouse.
I was at the Nebraska game, it was close until Nebraska fell apart at the beginning of the 4th and even then Nebraska was driving on offense to bring it within 7 when Martinez threw the pick. That gave UGA the ball back with around 7 minutes left up 14. Then it was over. I hardly call it a dominant second half performance. It was two blown coverages out of 30 minutes of a very good second half.
The SEC is good but they are not 6 teams in the top 10 good. Fact is they are 17-13 in the past three years in bowl games. Very good but not dominating by any means. No where have I said any conference is better but I don't get the arrogance of the SEC fans simply because Alabama, LSU and Florida are good.
BT what you are completely forgetting is that B12 and SEC football is played completely differently. Who would have beaten them in the B12? Arguably anyone. The SEC, while the B1G gets the moniker, plays big man between the tackles football. It is why Johnny and Cam had such success because teams weren't use to seeing someone as mobile and as good as either one.
Granted, the B12 doesn't play much D, but they also score lots of points and their defense is set up to stop the spread offenses. I'm not saying that the SEC isn't that great, but the B12 plays teams like that week in and week out and is ready for it.
It seems like you're blending arguments though. I don't think anyone would deny that the SEC is a great football conference, but we can't ignore the breaks they've gotten or how the games were won and/or lost either.
When Ohio State beat Michigan it was a tough game and without arguably Ohio State's best defensive player on the D-Line. In the 2nd half Michigan couldn't even cross their own 47 yard line. The Buckeyes put the clamps on them.
South Carolina won on their last offensive play with a blown coverage and :17 on the clock. Other than that monster hit Clowney had, Lewan pretty much stonewalled him most of the game.
LSU had a great defense & running game, then Clemson beats them on a last second field goal after Boyd goes 36/50 for 346yds and 2 TDs (0 turnovers) against them WITHOUT their 2nd best receiver Sammy Watkins and they still couldn't stop DeAndre Hopkins.
Florida finished their season schedule with E.J. Manuel throwing 3 INTs and FSU forcing NO turnovers. Before that they were "running the gauntlet" with a loss to Georgia and wins over mighty Mizzou, LA-Lafayette (each of whom they only beat by a TD) and Jacksonville St. before getting taken to the woodshed by Teddy Bridgewater and Louisville.
You ask who could've beaten Texas A&M? Well, Oklahoma State, Kansas St., and Baylor would all have legit shots at beating them, hell even West Virginia when they were healthy. Styles make games, and we can't forget that Louisiana TECH hung 57 on them.
National championships? Since 2010, they got a break with McCoy being injured, 10' sCam Newton's title and Heisman got over on a technicality (should be vacated), 11' OK State or Oregon deserved a shot, not LSU (lowest rated NC ever, which shows not everyone gives a damn about the SEC and particularly mad that OSU and Michigan couldn't get a rematch in a much more entertaining game), 12' Oregon and K-State had to blow it in order for Bama to get to the title game.
So what is the argument exactly? The polls and perception of how good teams are, is based on "style points" AND Ws. We can't necessarily exclude one from the other with how the hype machine parades them as soooo much better than every other conference when they're only marginally better; great teams versus good teams - not great teams versus below average teams like they try to make it seem like.
Bottom line, 3rd best team in the SEC beat the ACC champion on their homefield. LSU was what, the 6th best team in SEC last year and Clemson, the 2nd best team in the ACC beat them on a last second field goal. South Carolina, who was the 3rd best team in the East and 5th overall beat Clemson easily at Clemson and they were the 2nd best team in the entire ACC. The Florida/Louisville game that everyone rallies behind was a matchup of the best team from one conference and the 3rd best team from another.
The whole idea that the SEC isn't that much better than everyone else because Michigan ALMOST beat(which means they lost by the way) South Carolina is absurd.
Yea but you're arguing from your perspective & not the national perspective which says that if you were to transplant any of those teams to the others' conference, say Florida to the Big East, they would be the #1 team in that conference versus putting Louisville in the SEC would make them like the #8 team.
That's the real narrative that is out there. The way you're shaping your argument doesn't really make sense in the way that you want to accept their conference positions but ignore the national narrative.
LSU was ranked #9 in the AP while Clemson was #15. SC was #11 while Michigan was #19. Florida was #4 & Louisville was #22. Nebraska was #23, Georgia was #6.
The AP (media) plays a great role in shaping that narrative with these rankings and the bottom line is that ON THE FIELD this narrative of this chasm between the SEC & everyone else is greatly exaggerated.
I can't upvote but very well said Gametime.
The Polls are SEC inflated. Someone needs to step up and pound some SEC teams. Once they lose a NC that will help. Hopefully the Buckeyes will do it. No way 6 teams are better than the 2nd best B1G team. MSU beat Georgia a couple of years ago. LSU lost to Clemson. We beat Arkansas who was the #2 SEC team that year. However, they win the NC games, so the pollsters love them. Time for the SEC to go down.
The Chase is about to commence;-)
Quite frankly, I believe if we go out and take care of business, it will elevate the rest of the big ten, assuming they can win a couple of OOC games of their own.
As an aside, I think that Northwestern is underrated in the polls for a team going 10-3 while beating 2 SEC teams last year. Sure, those two were Vandy and Mississippi State, but according to the College Football Perception of Strength, that is a near impossible task for any outside the hallowed conference, no matter how badly they played.
NW is underrated. I'll be glued to that NW vs Cal game on the 31st. Can they pick up where they left off last year and play like not-a-directional-university? They should consider a name change if they continue to improve.
You might want to be careful pointing out that a middle of the pack B1G team beat not one but 2 SEC! SEC! schools. Such blasphemy is not allowed. Maybe ESPN can dig up some dirt on them and get those 2 wins vacated so then we can all pretend it didn't happen.
I will be right there with you, Helga. Maybe they should change their colors while they're at it, too. Purple has a less than illustrious history. Maybe they will accuse Northwestern's football players of being too smart, thus degrading from the SEC shiny top-of-everything-ever status.
In reality, though, if you talked to SEC fans after the Vandy game last year, they said that Vandy was "barely" an SEC team, and thus it didn't count as an SEC win. Cue eye rolling.
1) Agreed on the purple, hey, we women thought we owned that color until I read on the internet that a particular teletubby made it the color for a specific men/men movement?? Hell, never watched that show so I don't get it. Luckily my kids grew up during Bert/Ernie Sesame Street era and never asked why they are such long time roomies with no girlfriends. Bert does seem a little tight, eh?
2) Purple? Not unless you are a Viking fan. Admittedly, purple is the traditional color of royalty. I do have to admit, it looks really, really good with with gold and white. But here I am again as a female talking fashion not testosterone.
3) LOL "top of everything status". Yup.
As a member of a fraternity with the main color is (royal) purple, I can definitely say it has its places when done right. The dark richness of royal purple and whatever NW calls theirs can be strong, classy, and largely unique. I've always been a fan, though, again, I'm biased.
Sorry, didn't mean to post it so big and it won't let me downsize it either.
Here's hoping UNC eliminates South Carolina early.
"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.
The SEC is, and has been for pretty much this entire run of "dominance", an extremely top heavy conference. No need to worry about S Car, they'll inevitably choke and lose some game(s) they shouldn't, but their team is not that impressive.
UGA is pretty solid, just based on last year's performance.
A&M had a stellar year, but we'll see how they do this year when defenses have made adjustments to going against that type of offense/QB. This is taking for granted Manziel stays eligible (I hope the kid gets put in his place and shown the door). If he's not, they're totally hosed.
LSU is always "good" but rarely great. They will struggle this year on the defensive side of the ball, and will lose 2+ games as a result.
That's pretty much it! The other teams range from "average" to outright awful, and to be honest, I'm perfectly okay with that. I have absolutely ZERO conference loyalty, and I dislike or even hate most of the other teams in the SEC, for one reason or another.
I hate preseason polls, anyway. They're stupid and totally baseless. I wish they'd do away with them and just figure it out after week 4 or something. Even so, there will be bias and stupid voters who tend to skew things and mess it up. Can't wait for this playoff system though!
Just know that all SEC people aren't mouth breathing ingrates who can't look at college football objectively.
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