This is a sign that I am really bored, waiting for the NFL draft, Opening Day, and the Spring game.
Okay, I know that even mentioning Pryor's name is taboo is some quarters. NTL, I think that he has a great deal of potential. So if the opportunity came up and you could pull the trigger, would you trade Weeden for TP straight up?
I think I would, but I am admittedly not a Weeden fan. What say you?
If not Weeden, do you think that any other team would make an offer?
That trade would deserve a spot in Cleveland history right next to the Rocky Colavito deal.
The Ernest Byner for Mike Oliphant swap went well, as did the Ron Harper and 2 - 1st round picks for the rights to Danny Ferry.
No way Weedends alot better then Pryor, Pryors Mechanics and accuracy are still way too ugly to be a staring QB while Weeden was only a rookie last year with a terrible coaching staff.
Agreed but Pryor is still young and learning. Weeden is scheduled to retire after two more seasons.
Fitzbuck
Toledo - Ohio's right armpit
"A troll by any other name is still a troll".
Oakland would shit their pants before they laughed and hung up the phone.
Al Davis is laughing in his grave at the thought of this trade.
How so? TP was Al Davis' idea. Once he gets a few games under his belt he will be a top 10 qb in the league.
Top 10 in "a few games"?. I'd be pretty shocked
I would Weeden is old. Well will get there quick. TP will have a breakout season if given the opportunity. Dudes a beast... in his limited playing time he's done exactly what he did in college.. out run everyone and stiff arm DL and LBs to the turf like its nothing. He throws a great deep ball just needs too improve the short and intermediate passes.. he's still young with a high ceiling.
give weeden one more season
Yeah he deserves to spend his whole career in Cleveland. Let him retire a brown!
Fitzbuck
Toledo - Ohio's right armpit
"A troll by any other name is still a troll".
Lamplighter, I'm guessing that because Al Davis made TP his last draft pick, some of your reasoning must be sentimental...of course Al Davis was known for making some awesome draft picks in the last 10 yrs.
Without pausing I'd say yes. Weeden has no potential at anything but a backup.
I agree I'd make the deal without hesitation - TP's ceiling is very, very high. He needs a shot and some coaching.
I'll be open, I am a Lions fan so I have no dog in this fight. I laughed literally out loud when the Browns drafted Weeden. If at 27 years old you considered the most dominant college QB ever when are you ever going to dominate the NFL? Didn't even come in the top 10 in Heisman voting... some QB's in the NFL peak at his age and he is still being assessed as to whether he can start.
You can laugh all you want, but as a Lions fan, I would think you'd know how we Browns fans may feel. Arguably, no quarterback that has taken in the modern Browns era is or was any better than Weeden, especially not in their first year. I'm not saying he's a franchise guy, I'm hoping they make a trade or something, but with the Browns, you take what you can get.
I laugh when Lion makes picks as well, but that wasn't relevant so I didn't think it needed said. I certainly am not trying to speak to any superiority in my team. Had someone asked, I frankly am tired of the Lions crap and didn't watch much this year.
Steensn, you have my sympathies. As a luke-warm viking fan, I remember fondly the days of Matt Millen. That had to be painful.
It's why im such an OSU fan instead of a lions fan ;) I used to be more of a lions fan...
Don't want TP, but will pile on the Lions by saying that Stafford looks great but is not a winner.
P.S. Heisman voting does not matter even a little, one way (Jason White) or the other (Aaron Rodgers)
Pryor barley even has potential to be a backup
Barley is delicious when turned into a beverage. :-)
You can kill a fly with your slipper or a cannon. Either way, the fly dies. -Ramzy
Yep.
Yes, I think the raiders would make this deal in a heartbeat. Rumors are out there that they are very interested in drafting Geno Smith, which makes it clear they aren't thrilled with their current QB situation. Carson Palmer is older and very expensive, meanwhile, TP is still a project, which if the raiders were interested in I don't think they would be so intrigued by Geno Smith (who is hilariously overrated in this year's draft as are all of the QB's). Weeden also was underwhelming in Cleveland this past year. Yes, he was a rookie etc.. etc.. but he fit in Shurmer;s Westcoast system I am not sure how he will fit in Chud's. From Oakland's perspective, assuming they buy in to Geno Smith, trading TP for Weeden essentially allows them to cut Palmer as Weeden is a similar style QB as well as unload a 3rd round project for a first round pick a year ago. Ultimately, if the deal went through, the Raiders would be left with two young (I know weeden is 29, young NFL Milage wise) 1st round QB's on a rebuilding franchise while getting rid of an aging and expensive 2nd tier starter and a young very high ceiling but growing pained project player. Sounds like a win from the Raiders side. Over on Cleveland's side, as I said Weeden was underwhelming and Chud has obviously had great success with a mobile QB who shares a body type with TP, Cam Newton. So I think there are potential positive to both clubs especially if Cleve has decided Weeden isn't the answer, which I agree with others above he probably deserves a second year.
Weeden's biggest drawback is that he went to senior prom before Dawson's Creek went off the air. He has potential and actually showed some growth during the season with that garbage coaching staff. I am waiting to pass judgment on him until after this season.
-The Aristocrats!
+1 for the Dawson's Creek reference. Ha!
/Duff'd It
Yes.
Class of 2010.
i dont get where some of the fans think Pryor has all this potential, he couldn't even beat out a long past his prime carson palmer on a very bad oakland team, and the one start he did have he threw for 46%
Your point doesn't take into account the Raiders gave up 2 1st rounders for Palmer, basically selling their soul for him. They HAD to have him succeed.
In Terrel's first start he had 3 TD's, Oakland's only scores. He showed that he should have been given a chance to start, which he wasn't. It was stacked against him with Leinhart and Palmer both sitting in front of him and favored due to their familiarity with the offense brought in. He beat out Palmer, he just wasn't given the chance.
Why would they need to trade for Palmer in the first place if Pryor was that good? His 46% shows he shouldn't have been given the chance to start. He didnt beat out palmer thats just a flat out Biased lie. Seattle paid Flynn a sh*tload of money yet still wasn't afraid to start the 3rd round rookie over him, why? because Wilson actually beat him out, not the garbage your trying to spew here
Pryor is a project. You trade for a known commodity before throwing a project (facing a bull shit 6 game suspension in the NFL) into the fire. Secondly, one game's completion percentage says nothing about long term projections. Third-Flynn's contract isn't nearly as big as people want to think it is. He made 2 million this year-which is peanuts in terms of the NFL's starting quarterback salary-so sitting a guy who makes 2 mil is an easier pill to swallow than sitting a guy who cost your team two first round picks (the hottest commodity in all of sport). He was a 4 mil cap hit because 2 million of his signing bonus was paid out in 2012. He does continue to become a bigger cap hit but here's the big secret about NFL contracts-the Seahawks can cut him and save themselves a lot of paper-The Raiders can not get those picks back. The Raiders paid more for Palmer than the Seahawks did for Flynn so the idea that the Raiders had to play Palmer is far more feasible than the one that the Seahawks had to play Flynn. Nice try there though.
If you are content using one game to sum up his career, I'm content using one game to project a season's worth of stats. If that one game damns him, it should be able to be used to support a season right? Here's what happens if you extrapolate that game's stats over 16 games.
208\480 2480 yards. 32 TD's\16 INTs. 144 Rushes for 784 yards and 16 TD's. Looks pretty good to me....now of course, using one game's numbers to say that's how his season would shake out is pretty ridiculous. Almost as ridiculous as saying that his one game's completion percentage proves anything you are trying to say.
So what garbage are you spewing here?
4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off
First yes that 1 game is enough to go by since thats the only game he played. Flynn was sitting the bench on a 12 Million dollar salary this year since 10 Million of his 26 Mil was guarenteed plus the 2 mil for the seaon, and then he would have been paid 7 Mil to sit on the bench for the next 2 years, explain how paying someone 12 Mil for 1 season to sit on the bench isn't terrible? next if Pryor was so good they wouldn't have needed to trade for Palmer, Pryor was allowed to practice, play in the pre-season and go to training camp, they were well aware of what they had in Pryor yet still way over paid for Palmer, thats says it all right there. Palmer wasn't traded for untill 5 weeks after Pryor was back from suspention.
Meanwhile it doesn't work to extrapolate to a whole season because you're trying to Bullsh*t everybody that a team will stick with a QB who's completion percentage is 46% which just isn't the Case. but hey keep up the hot garbage posting, cant convince me pryor is any good or has any potential for the NFL, ill believe it when the teams not so desprite to give up very high picks for a retired QB
Those are cute numbers and all, but Flynn was a 4 mil cap hit, so I'm not really sure where you are getting your stuff from. His contract elevates the next few seasons and it will get more expensive than he was in 2012-the point is, he didn't make as much money in 2012 as people though and it wasn't enough for the 'Hawks to feel as if they have to play him.
Also-Just because Pryor was allowed to practice and play in the pre season, Oakland had to live 6 games without him-assuming he was going to be their starter anyway, which is something no one is arguing. He wasn't going to be an immediate starter. Me nor Steesn hadn't said that-but without you assuming we did you don't have much of a leg to stand on do you?
I'll give you three chances to guess what happens to Flynn at the end of this season. I'll even give you a hint-it rhymes with "Butt Sim". Ready? Go. Oakland can not get their picks back-er go, they paid more for Palmer and thus, needed to play him to justify the ridiculous amount they spent to get him. First round picks are invaluable in the NFL.
Clearly you missed the point of extrapolation. 1 game doesn't work for Pryor good or bad. If one game did NFL QB's in, there would be a lot of future Hall of Famers that were out of the NFL.
You said one game is enough to show he's not good because its the only game he's played. Of course, you used just one stat but whatever, why let facts bother you? But what the heck, I'm feeling frisky. I give you the first game lines of some of the best QB's in the NFL.
Peyton Manning-21\37 302. 1 INT\3 TDs-Colts fans should have said "One game and three ints? HE SUCKS!"
Joe Flacco-15\29 159 yards-Thats it? Cut him. That one game tells me all I need!
Matt Ryan 9\13 161 and a TD-Someone better melt Matty Ice RIGHT MEOW! He didn't play great in that first game.
The point here is that one stat in one game says nothing.
Again, thanks for playing.
4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off
Cool story Bro, his cap hit doesnt matter untill he gets cut. they still paid him 12 Mil to sit on the bench last year, but hey keep having those wet dreams about Pryor, i doubt he sniffs a second contract in the league. Funny how that magic number went from 4 to 6 out of nowhere huh? you keep leaving out the fact if Pryor was so great they wouldn't needed to trade for Palmer to being with. Manning, Ryan and Flacco were all 1st round picks, Pryor wasnt. they are allowed bad games, Pryor wasn't.
its pathetic the lies and bs facts people will make up to defend pryor
Cap hit matters because its what a player is costing his team. Cooler story bro. When the number isn't that high, teams don't care because its not real money until it affects the salary cap and thus their ability to sign and aquire other players
The Raiders took Pryor because he was available and they liked his physical skill set. Do you think the Oakland Raiders are the only team that ever acquired a veteran QB and Rookie QB in the same season? (I'll give you a hint-they aren't). Long term\short term planning. That's what the Raiders were doing. Long Term plan might include Pryor, it didn't include Palmer. Why are you missing that?
Ok so where a guy gets picked gives you the sort of leash he should have? More than that-you are saying Pryor is bad because of one game's completion percentage yet similarly unimpressive starts out of other guys are forgiven because they are first rounders?
Also-when did I say Pryor was great? Please do me a favor and copy and paste it into a thread and I'll leave these parts forever. Where in this conversation did I say anything to the affect that he is great and had to start immediately. You are making that point that I said that-I never actually did. But again-if you don't assume I think that (which I don't) you have nothing to argue.
But I'll speak slower.
My.....point.....is.....that....
.one....game's....completion....percentage....
doesn't....say....anything....about....a....players....long....term....success....
I guess I'm more upset that a simple concept like sample size eldues you.
Again, thanks for playing.
4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off
Swisher, sorry, but you can't take one single start & say a guys no good...he didn't do too poorly in his first start. The fact that those players (Manning, Ryan, Flacco) you mentioned being first-rounders, which gives them more room for error doesn't hold a whole lot of water either. If they're getting first-round money, shouldn't they actually be held to a higher standard? Shouldn't they actually be expected to be brilliant immediately? I'd like to see Pryor with at least 3-4 starts before any sort of legitimate judgement can be made. Maybe your a guy who doesn't like TP for his past transgressions at OSU, but don't let that cloud your judgement as to how he plays in the NFL...from the little I've seen, the guy has tons of potential.
As for the OPs question about trading Pryor for Weeden, I have no idea about that. I don't know anything at all about Weeden.
The world is full of kings & queens who'll blind your eyes & steal your dreams - it's heaven & hell - Ronnie James Dio.
You mean the Pryor who had to sit out the first 6 games and couldn't participate in training camp? The one that couldn't play when Campbell got injured and the Raiders were scrambling?
Just because one team is willing to role the dice doesn't mean every team is. It is a farce to use the Seattle decision as a reason to question Pryor's ability, it has no practical application. I can site 100 more examples as to where rookie QB's were not relied up even though they were expected to start eventually for a team.
The chips were stacked against Pryor ever starting because of the coaches and systems put in place. He was a owner's choice thrust upon an organization who didn't want him. If you cannot admit the situation was stacked against Pryor and therefore clouds our ability to just whether or not they were giving him a fair shot then we don't need to converse anymore on this matter. If we cannot agree on this premise there is no reason to discuss the details.
Sure, why not? Can't be any worse than the bulk of the moves we've made over the last decade +
No thanks. I'm a big Pryor fan, but Chud and Norv have stated their preference for an accurate, big armed QB. At this point Weeden is a better option in my opinion. He made some bonehead rookie mistakes, but showed some great throws as well. Give him a chance in the new offense.
Wayne Woodrow Hayes
I would take that deal without even having to look at it. Drafting Brandon Weeden was one of the WORST thing the Browns have done in a long line of bad things that the Browns have done. It was a head-scratching move at the time, and it certainly played out exactly as most expected. You don't take a guy in the first round that you KNOW you will only have for 2-3 years simply due to his age.
I have a hard time thinking how defenses would account for both Richardson AND Pryor coming from the same backfield. It is most certainly a better option than Weeden, though.
in what universe will weeden only play untill he's 31?
I'm betting on this universe.
I think TP has more potential but I also think there are enough Buckeye fans that hate TP that it would never work!
"Because I couldn't go for 3"
I don't care for Weeden, but I wouldn't do a deal for Pryor. I think Cleveland gives Weeden one more year and see what he does in Norv Turner's offense. If he doesn't improve from last year, they look elsewhere. Pryor has done nothing in the league thus far, mainly due to lack of opportunity with the Raiders, but I just don't see him doing anything in the league. Sure he's got potential and a high ceiling, the dude's only played in how many games thus far? But I feel like Pryor is Vince Young 2.0 on the pro level. Pryor's best shot in this league probably is wearing a headset and carrying around a clipboard as a back-up.
Probably have to package Weeden with a couple picks. Pryor is by no means a finished product, but he has a lot of worth and upside
I think as the 22nd pick in the last draft you gotta give him time whether hes approaching 30 yrs old or not....New Offense, new Coordinators, and the fact that the man in charge has even said you have to give Wheeden some time to be able to evaluate things. Also what has TP done in the NFL that makes anyone think he's going to be great? Far as I can tell he's doing a lot of what he did in college which he's not a terribly accurate thrower and his mechanics are screwed up. The one thing that Cleveland has been consistent with in their draft picks is they seem to still think a square peg can fit in a round hole. Tim Couch was a shotgun qb that they tried to make a conventional type qb and it didnt work...If I'm not mistaken didn't Wheeden play in a hurry up type offense in college? So if i'm correct about that, how about employing some hurry up offense here so we can take advantage of his skill set instead of trying to make him do something he's not used to doing?
Battles are sometimes won by generals; wars are nearly always won by sergeants and privates. Football is no different, the guys down in the trenches win the games, not the coach.
i'd make the trade in a heartbeat......but only bc we would be deciding between 2 unknowns and i'd trust that pryor be better than weeden but that isn't saying much.....i'd love to say pryor could be kaepernick but we never really ran spread option with pryor at ohio state so idk how he really would do in a system like that but i would assume he could be at least close to what the 49ers got in kaepernick so yea, definitely pryor over weeden (epic fail of a pick)
No. Weeden is a better passer than Pryor. It's that simple. There are so many delusional Browns' fans it's unbelievable. Weeden was 2nd amongst all rookies in passing yards, only to Luck. His QBR wasn't anything to brag about, but let's see what he can do with good coaches and a system that tailors to his strengths. Browns' fans that would trade Weeden for Pryor are as bad as those that think McCoy is a better option too.
ouch on both points. Even if you love Weeden, you have to admit that he is not the long term option. He is relatively immobile and, while he has a strong arm and a fairly quick release, he is slow on reading defenses (or appears to be), which is why most of his big plays always seemed to occur on the first and second drives and possibly explains the 17 picks
From Fox Sports on Weeden:
He had the roughest season of all rookie starting quarterbacks with 17 interceptions, a mediocre 57.4 completion percentage and 5-10 starting record.
Years ago, Neil Lomax (Cards) was consistently among the yardage leaders. Never won squat
My only beef with Weeden was where he was picked. He was going to fall into the 2nd round. We reached for him when we did not have to. The Browns could have drafted a young solid player to have for years. I just felt like we pissed away a very good late round/lower dollar high value pick. The Browns need much more than a QB, and IMO Weeden is a bridge QB to provide a little more maturity until we find our more talented young guy. I would have had no problem with Weeden in the 2nd round.
I'll ask this: Does anyone here think that Tyler Wilson would be better than Weeden by his 2nd year? I think Wilson had a much higher ceiling and IMO is the best QB in this class.
Dustin Fox was our leading tackler as a corner.... because his guy always caught the ball.
Im right with you Gluefingers , the Browns would have won 4 more games last season with Colt McCoy starting and that's not saying much . Until the Browns can find that franchise QB we are destined for mediocrity. On a positive note having a owner that gives a crap ,will spend $ and wants to win is huge foe Cleveland. With cash to spend in free agency hopefully they can bring a couple of quality pieces in .
Schack