JAKE RYAN TORN ACL

By nmaxwell -20 March 2013
117 Comments
- Football

pretty self explanatory...this is a big loss for michigan, not only in terms of a pass rush but ryan was also by far their most consistent defender. not sure who they'd have in line to replace him, but they will undoubtedly be a step down

d1145fresh on 20 Mar 2013 - 12:54pm #

Real tough loss for Michigan. I feel bad for the kid. Ohio player who played at a top tier.

buck4 on 20 Mar 2013 - 12:56pm #

They use him in a lot of positions and was a real strong pass rusher! The ACL bug has sure hit TSUN

buck-I.8 on 20 Mar 2013 - 12:56pm #

They don't have anyone on this roster who can replace him as of now. He's the most versatile player on that team, and if he's out for any extended period of time, they may have to change entire areas of the play book. Huge.

tennbuckeye19 on 20 Mar 2013 - 12:56pm #

Ouch. That's a big blow for their defense. I don't know about their depth, but I doubt they have a kid that can step in and be as productive as Ryan at linebacker.

I wonder how long this will keep him out? Will he be available at all for 2013?

buck4 on 20 Mar 2013 - 1:04pm #

I highly doubt he sees the field in 2013.

nmaxwell on 20 Mar 2013 - 1:06pm #

i remember reading chris wormley tore his acl right at the beginning of fall camp for them last year. he's now okayed to fully participate in spring practices. ryan will likely be out 8-9 months before he's ready to go, which puts michigan near the end of their season. even if they have him back for their bowl game, not sure it's worth it to rush him back and risk another injury

Toilrt Paper on 22 Mar 2013 - 2:20am #

Medical red shirt makes a lot more sense than playing a low level bowl game.

Matt Mod on 20 Mar 2013 - 12:56pm #

That really sucks for him. He was their best returning player, offense or defense. Hope he has a speedy recovery.

Jason Staff on 20 Mar 2013 - 12:57pm #

Tough break. Ryan is versatile, led the Wolverines in tackles last year and is easily their best player on defense.

He's burned his redshirt, but a 6th year isn't out of the question, depending on how long his injury puts him out. At least they have a senior to back him up:

It's unclear how long Ryan will be out, but he almost certainly will miss most, if not all, of the 2013 season. His backup is senior Cam Gordon, who has played in 33 career games and started 13.

captain obvious on 20 Mar 2013 - 12:58pm #

I always would rather have sCUM at full strength when we destroy them.

Good luck to the LB he's a heckuva player.

I'm a friend of thunder is it any wonder lightning strikes me

FitzBuck on 20 Mar 2013 - 1:06pm #

Couldn't agree more. Their tears are sweeter when they don't have any excuses .

I hope kids rehab goes well and he's back next year.

Fitzbuck
Toledo - Ohio's right armpit
"A troll by any other name is still a troll".

Ahh Saturday on 20 Mar 2013 - 1:48pm #

Agree with your sentiment, but you should understand that Michigan always has an excuse. It is the one area where they truly excel.

nmaxwell on 20 Mar 2013 - 2:16pm #

classy

Ahh Saturday on 20 Mar 2013 - 2:33pm #

Okay, let me state this clearly. The injury to Jake Ryan is sad and unfortunate. He is a talented player, and a natural leader. I hope his injury heals fully and that he can realize his potential in full health. Now, with that out of the way, Michigan was going to find an excuse for losing to us this year no matter what. It's what they do.

jeremytwoface on 22 Mar 2013 - 12:13pm #

Not sure why people are down-voting this...

Wouldn't you, as a Buckeye fan, try to find an excuse for losing to tsun? I know I would.

I wouldn't just want to come out and say "Well, Michigan is the better team."

LouGroza on 22 Mar 2013 - 12:20pm #

Maybe. Just would not be on a Michigan blog pushing excuses as facts. Its one thing to argue them, its another to know the appropriate place to do it. We tend to be pro-OSU here and for the life of me I can't figure out why...?

hail2victors9 on 22 Mar 2013 - 12:30pm #

I didn't downvote him, but it rubbed me the wrong way. There is a big difference between excuse, explanation, and [amateur] analysis, IMO.

Questioning the offensive play calling and being very frustrated with the outcome of the 2nd half was a general sentiment for UM fans. The mindset of running more plays with a higher success rate seems, to me, that UM's offense could've been more productive than it was. OSU's defense also played a huge role. Are those excuses? Maybe? I don't know.

Is it different than (after Michigan's 2011 win), "Yeah, but that was our worst team in 80 years and you still barely won?" Or "If Braxton could've hit Posey on those three deep passes, we win."

I think all of that is pretty close to factual happenings or close possibility.

Additionally, I think for it to be an "excuse" the favorite has to lose. In The Game, you can throw out the talk about favorites (sans '08-'10) because you never know. This is a topic that will never have a cut and dry answer. All I know is that with the passion that comes with this rivalry, we all are hurt to the core with a loss and fit to a T with a win...so comes the bragging and the butthurt.

Those who stay will be CHAMPIONS!
~Bo Schembechler

jeremytwoface on 22 Mar 2013 - 12:38pm #

Well I guess we need clarification on what he meant by "excuses" then.

I would have the same gripes if I were on the other side..

Ahh Saturday on 22 Mar 2013 - 5:33pm #

@ Jeremy,

I hate Michigan. Hope that clarifies things.

Ahh Saturday on 22 Mar 2013 - 5:32pm #

@Hail,

You're a quality poster, and this board is better for having you on it. However, you are a wolverine; if things on this board didn't rub you the wrong way occasionally, it wouldn't be much of a rivalry, would it?

DetroitBuckeye on 22 Mar 2013 - 10:21pm #

Great post Hail, as long as you congratulate the other team I don't think that it can be seen as making excuses. Besides I would like to think that we as fans can notice the difference between true sour grapes and legitimate reasons for one team winning or the other. Now I think that Osu probably still wins but with better play calling Michigan probably gets past mid field or at least threatens.

bigbadbuck on 20 Mar 2013 - 3:00pm #

Since when do they need anything to make them whine?.....Thats about all I get with any Missagain fans I talk to

Battles are sometimes won by generals; wars are nearly always won by sergeants and privates. Football is no different, the guys down in the trenches win the games, not the coach.

nebraskafaninwi on 20 Mar 2013 - 12:59pm #

This is a situation where recruiting 50 billion offensive lineman the last two classes comes back to haunt you.....you need balance and depth on all units.

buck-I.8 on 20 Mar 2013 - 1:00pm #

I like you, guy

tOSUman on 20 Mar 2013 - 1:01pm #

I don't follow this logic. How would any freshman/redshirt freshman help all that much? It's not like they're going to recruit 5 LB's in a class.

buck-I.8 on 20 Mar 2013 - 1:03pm #

He means that recruiting 5-6 OLs each of the last few years takes away from the ability to have depth at other positions. They have one LB from the 2012 class that seems like he'll make an impact in the near future in Joe Bolden, those odds are tempting fate.

buck4 on 20 Mar 2013 - 1:07pm #

The strongest depth is at LB so it's really not that big of a concern in the depth area. He is their best defensive player though

BlueBayou on 21 Mar 2013 - 6:24pm #

The Michigan coaches have concentrated on LBs and have developed some depth (recruited 4 LB's per class from 2010 to 2012 and 2 in 2013). Two freshman saw significant playing time last year (Bolden and Ross). While no team likes to lose its best player on defense, from a position group perspective, there is depth to work through it. Still, whoever steps in will be a step down from Ryan.

tOSUman on 20 Mar 2013 - 12:59pm #

A little over five months until the start of the season so he may be able to to play the last quarter of the season. The only consolation for TTUN is that theire first 3/4 of the season does not seem too difficult. In any regards, this is a huge loss for them as stated above. Is it possible he now redshirts? Does anyone know if that's something a team would do with a senior?

nebraskafaninwi on 20 Mar 2013 - 1:00pm #

He would be better off entering the NFL draft if that was still possible.

brandonbauer87 on 20 Mar 2013 - 1:07pm #

All injuries are different but in a lot of cases they have to wait a few weeks to do surgery on an ACL.

nmaxwell on 20 Mar 2013 - 1:10pm #

i tore my ACL a few years ago, and they usually want swelling to go down before they operate, depending on the circumstances of the injury

nmaxwell on 20 Mar 2013 - 1:09pm #

since he already redshirted his freshman year, it is possible for him to get a 6th year with a medical redshirt. not sure if it would make sense for him personally, depending on his draft stock, but with 6 years at michigan he can probably get a graduate degree as well, although i'm not sure what he's studying

FitzBuck on 20 Mar 2013 - 1:09pm #

Absolutely it's something a school would do with a productive senior that's willing to come back. If you need proof look no further than our own Jordan Hall.

Fitzbuck
Toledo - Ohio's right armpit
"A troll by any other name is still a troll".

hail2victors9 on 20 Mar 2013 - 1:38pm #

I can't imagine him playing this year. A) he likely won't be ready and it will be a huge risk to push it B) There is no reason he won't be granted a medical redshirt so it would be dumb to waste it for a limited number of games.

Also, he is a RS Junior with two years of eligibility left.

Those who stay will be CHAMPIONS!
~Bo Schembechler

Alpo on 21 Mar 2013 - 3:11pm #

Ummm, Jordan Hall?

TraditionCounts on 20 Mar 2013 - 1:05pm #

Last person on the team Michigan needed to get this news about. This will be an extremely difficult loss for a defensive unit that lacks depth and leadership. It'll be interesting to see how Mattison deals with it in terms of new schemes or strategy.

buck4 on 20 Mar 2013 - 1:08pm #

I would think Devin Gardner would be the most crucial player to lose

FitzBuck on 20 Mar 2013 - 1:12pm #

Why would you think that. They have Shane Morris who's the second coming of Tom Brady or whatever they are saying about him now.

I'm with you.

Fitzbuck
Toledo - Ohio's right armpit
"A troll by any other name is still a troll".

buck4 on 20 Mar 2013 - 1:19pm #

HAHA, I think Morris will be pretty darn good actually, just not in the next 2 years

FitzBuck on 20 Mar 2013 - 1:58pm #

Couldn't stop thinking of him being closer to Bauserman with his impressive 2-12 with an int performance in the all star game.

kid does have an arm.

Fitzbuck
Toledo - Ohio's right armpit
"A troll by any other name is still a troll".

buckeyedude on 23 Mar 2013 - 9:15am #

Wait a minute. I thought Shane Morris was the second coming of 2003 September Heisman winner, John Navarre?

Which is it?

"Here officer, hold my beer while I find my license."

TraditionCounts on 20 Mar 2013 - 1:53pm #

That's fair. I guess I should have specified on the defensive side of the ball. Even still, I think you'd have a fair number of Michigan fans tell you that losing Jake Ryan is even more devastating than losing Gardner.

And Shane Morris will be good. Let's not fool ourselves.

buckguyfan1 on 20 Mar 2013 - 1:15pm #

Don't wish that on anybody.... Hope he makes a full recovery.

Meatchicken still sucks IMO

~Naples Buckeye - "May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't." - General George S. Patton, Jr.

nmaxwell on 20 Mar 2013 - 1:17pm #

^probably should have put that in the original post. he seemed like a good, hard-working kid. i'm sure he'll attack his rehab and be back next year. hope the surgery goes well and he heals up quickly

GoBlueBlood on 20 Mar 2013 - 1:27pm #

Appreciate the class you guys are showing in this thread.

This is without a doubt a massive loss for our defense. There's no sugarcoating it. Fortunately LB is a position where we have depth (albeit young) so it's not as if the unit will be bad this year, but LB's just went from the best unit on our team to merely a solid unit that's talented yet very young and inexperienced. Roy Manning sure has his hands full in his first year on the job.

Hovenaut on 20 Mar 2013 - 1:32pm #

That's a real blow, hate to see that. Hope he recovers fully.....chance he could be back for The Game?

"Success - it's what you do with what you got" - Woody Hayes

M Man on 20 Mar 2013 - 1:35pm #

All of the above comments are essentially correct. This is a huge loss. An irreplaceable loss. A game-changing loss. We have other capable linebacker personnel. We only have one Jake Ryan.

I regarded Ryan as a legit, prime Silver Football candidate in the Big Ten for 2013. For a lot of M fans, myself included, he was the player we were most looking forward to seeing on the field this year, Derrick Green and Shane Morris notwithstanding.

Ryan's eligibility status is "redshirt junior." He's got eligibility in 2014 without any medical extension. One would think that his playing in 2013 is inconceivable, and that his playing for Michigan in 2014 as a redshirt senior is perhaps more likely now than if he had been a healthy All-American this year with high NFL draft potential.

Very typical classy 11W take on this very sad subject. I don't even want to look at the Red Cedar Message Board.

IBLEEDSCARLETANDGRAY on 20 Mar 2013 - 3:52pm #

We may be rivals but I will never wish injury or worse on another player. Ryan is a fierce competitor and I have no doubt the young man will be back and probably better than he was before.

"Sherman ran an option play right through the south" - Greatest.Civil.War.Analogy.Ever

buckeyestu on 20 Mar 2013 - 1:44pm #

tough break for the kid, wish him a speedy recovery.

hail2victors9 on 20 Mar 2013 - 1:54pm #

"You cannot replace a ~~Gary Bertier~~ Jake Ryan...as a player...as a person."

This is just very sad to me. As some have mentioned before, LB is probably the best group for a player to go down---you just never want to lose the heart and soul of a defense. The one silver lining is that it happened very early and his replacements will get a lot of reps and time to learn the position. It would be nice to be full strength for a whole season.

Again, appreciate you guys showing class and respect on here for Jake Ryan. He's a great kid.

Those who stay will be CHAMPIONS!
~Bo Schembechler

BlueBayou on 21 Mar 2013 - 6:33pm #

Hail, do you think Cam Gordon will stick as Ryan's replacement, or might Joe Bolden get tapped?

hail2victors9 on 22 Mar 2013 - 8:46am #

I honestly think we'll have Bolden, Ross, and Morgan as the starters. Regardless of position, I was expecting it to be Ryan, Bolden and Ross with Morgan rotating in and out in multiple spots. Cam will see the field, I just don't see him being one of the best 3 LBs.

I'm sure a lot of people will mention the position changes won't be easy an easy transition, but as someone pointed out on TOS, good instincts may be the most important thing for a linebacker to possess. With this happening when it did, Manning, Smith, and Mattison will have 5-6 months to teach the other guys the position, change the scheming, etc. I hate...HATE that Ryan is gone and he'll be missed a ton, but I think Michigan will be all right.

Those who stay will be CHAMPIONS!
~Bo Schembechler

BlueBayou on 22 Mar 2013 - 9:37am #

I was kind of thinking the same thing. A Bolden, Ross, Morgan starting lineup should be solid, with my only concern being who will replace Ryan's pass rushing ability. Of all the linebackers, Ryan is the only one that seems to have the instincts and vision to make plays on a blitz. Hopefully it clicks for one of the other guys this year.

osubuck57 on 20 Mar 2013 - 1:59pm #

Hope his surgery and recovery goes well!! Hate to see any player go through an acl injury!!

SCOTTC.

BrewstersMillions on 20 Mar 2013 - 2:06pm #

Reid Fragel tweeted "Karma at its finest" about 45 minutes ago.

I worry that was in regards to Ryan, I hope not.

He's one of Michigan's best defenders-so when Michigan and OSU play, Michigan will be light one of its best players, therefore the Game will be a little less awesome=Everyone loses.

4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off

M Man on 20 Mar 2013 - 5:10pm #

Ditto.

I worry that it may have been about Ryan and I very much join you in hoping -- for the sake of Fragel's reputation and for your program in general -- that there is another explanation. Fragel's Twitter feed doesn't reveal any clues to me. And the Tweet remains up after a half a day to remove it.

Former TE [88] Fragel, on Twitter, last summer:

Fragel88 Reid Fragel
New staff new rules. No more twitter, not a big deal and probably for the better. Love our fans, love this place. Go Bucks #2012

Read more: http://scarletgray.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=football08&action=displ...

As we know, the 'Twitter ban' didn't really happen. But, "probably for the better"? Perhaps.

I am honestly hoping that there is an explanation here that is not what we are fearing.

btalbert25 on 21 Mar 2013 - 4:48pm #

I hope it's not about that either, but let's face it, we haven't been on the field for the game. Perhaps something happened on the field that would warrant that sort of response. Not saying it's right or even that's what happened, but I could see that kind of comment being made if say the guy was twisting Braxton's foot at the bottom of a pile.

Like most things though, this is probably a benign statement that just came at the same time as this other news.

TBDBITLinWIScantSON on 20 Mar 2013 - 2:13pm #

I'm never happy when a kid gets an injury. I always react as if it's someone I know, because when you know the person, you know how devastating it is.

I'm still pissed at Ryan for kicking Braxton in the leg, when he was chasing him and couldn't catch him in The Game. I thought that was a total bush league play. If you remember, it was in the 2nd 1/2, where it looked like Braxton just went down, and appeared to have injured his leg. If you still have it on DVR, or can find it on youtube- Ryan kicked him in the leg.

That said, I still feel bad for any competitor that has to miss time playing the game they love, and have committed themselves to. I just have to get over my anger first, I guess.

FitzBuck on 20 Mar 2013 - 2:25pm #

Forgot about that. Still feel bad for him but not as much.

Fitzbuck
Toledo - Ohio's right armpit
"A troll by any other name is still a troll".

nmaxwell on 20 Mar 2013 - 4:56pm #

i must have missed that. i keep hearing about it, but am still unsure of the context. unfortunately, i wasn't able to be parked in front of my flatscreen the entire game, and missed most of the third quarter only to watch the fourth quarter from far away on a tv at a restaurant. did ryan kick braxton after the play? seems very unlike him. don't think i've ever seen him penalized before. now, if he tripped him to stop him from getting away (can't really blame him, very few guys can catch braxton), that's one thing. i'll have to try and sift through youtube game footage. anyone have an approximate idea when it took place?

TBDBITLinWIScantSON on 20 Mar 2013 - 6:05pm #

It was during the play, not a Suh-type thing. It was hard to see from some angles. From head on, it looked like Ryan tripped (or got shot in the back) and that Braxton just kind of went down. But from the back camera, he kicked Braxton in the leg. And it obviously caused Braxton some problems, including missing the next play.

Total cheap shot, and Ryan's dive was Euro football worthy.

highwire on 21 Mar 2013 - 3:54pm #

At 4:05

nmaxwell on 21 Mar 2013 - 5:01pm #

thanks for finding that for me. i was definitely not watching that part of the game. while i'm impressed ryan stayed with the play long enough to stop braxton, it was a total trip. i don't view it as any different than a shoestring arm tackle though. still trips the guy carrying the ball. you can't predict that he'll land funny, and i don't think the kick did any actual damage, just unbalanced braxton enough for him to fall. jake ryan seems like a good hardworking kid, and i doubt his goal was to injure braxton on the play. these things happen. and i don't think ryan took a dive, he obviously lost his footing there too. it's football, shit happens. and obviously didn't affect the outcome of the game, since michigan's predictible play calling coupled with ohio state's timely defensive prowess stopped michigan completely in the second half

highwire on 21 Mar 2013 - 5:11pm #

no problem

TBDBITLinWIScantSON on 21 Mar 2013 - 5:13pm #

what if he had damaged braxton's knee? That would have had an impact on the game. the kick was higher than tapping the back of his heel. And it obviously tweeked his leg enough to miss the next play. he dove, and it was to disguise the kicking motion.

I still hope he gets back to full strength, so he can receive his next Buckeye beatdown.

nmaxwell on 21 Mar 2013 - 6:01pm #

i really didn't see a dive. he fell pretty hard, almost like if you caught an edge on a snowboard and went over really quick. i think he definitely kicked at braxton, and definitely lost his balance as a result. not many people can fake a fall that forcefully

TBDBITLinWIScantSON on 21 Mar 2013 - 10:03pm #

Ok, then it was a "good" dive. I watched it in super slo-mo about a dozen times when I saw it, because it really surprised me. But a dive nonetheless.

OhioBornMichiganBred on 22 Mar 2013 - 8:10am #

@NMaxwell You're right that it wasn't a dive, but I wouldn't say he "kicked at Braxton." I honestly think this was unintentional.

His left foot got caught in the turf first - you can see it. The track he makes is like 5 feet long. As a result of tripping with his left foot, he tries to swing his right foot around and stay up - albeit unsuccessfully.

TBDBITLinWIScantSON on 22 Mar 2013 - 9:43am #

Nice try. Last comment: the streak left by his left foot was as he was extending his right leg to kick Braxton mid-calf. The kicking motion came first. How is a kicking motion unintentional? You may think of a "dive" differently, but that was intentional and a cheap play. Not to say he's a cheap player, but that play was. A kicking motion is much more intentional than diving and trying to catch a foot with a hand (which is not illegal). And the 2 are not the same, when you consider what the outcomes could be.

OhioBornMichiganBred on 22 Mar 2013 - 10:14am #

Sorry man, I'm seeing his toe get caught and therefore make him shorten his right step - i.e. not a kicking motion so much as trying to run. We're clearly watching that video with different glasses on.

TBDBITLinWIScantSON on 22 Mar 2013 - 11:51am #

Then why does his right foot come out in front at all? He knew he couldn't catch him, so he tripped him. It happens. He made it look like he was falling. If he indeed tripped first , no way he would've had time to react with a kicking motion. See it for what it was.

hail2victors9 on 22 Mar 2013 - 12:00pm #

I'm not sure it's significant enough to continue discussing. I think us Michigan fans, knowing the kind of kid that Ryan is, and seeing every snap, we also know that he doesn't have the best form. He's a little awkward/clumsy-looking sometimes (kind of like the way a lot of people describe Mike Mitchell). It looked to me like he made a poor lunge or overstepped and was heading to the ground, himself.

My coworker (big OSU fan) thinks it was an intentional trip, too, but not malicious in anyway. Regardless, neither Ryan or Braxton were hurt and no penalty was called. It was not a dirty play, IMO (against the rules, perhaps, though). Additionally, two other guys were in the process of tackling Miller when it occurred. The play was essentially over when it happened. It's not like Ryan was the last one that had a chance to stop Braxton.

Those who stay will be CHAMPIONS!
~Bo Schembechler

TBDBITLinWIScantSON on 22 Mar 2013 - 12:39pm #

Agree on all points, except it was intentional, and miller was (luckily) not out for more than a play. Its not a comment on his character, just that play.

brandonbauer87 on 22 Mar 2013 - 12:58pm #

Sometimes I think you get downvotes just for being a M*chigan fan.

hail2victors9 on 22 Mar 2013 - 1:11pm #

There's no doubt, which is fine. It comes with the territory. The stupid part about it is, that a lot of my posts that don't warrant upvotes get them, simply to compensate for the downvote. As long as I don't get get -50 net downvotes, I can careless.

Those who stay will be CHAMPIONS!
~Bo Schembechler

TBDBITLinWIScantSON on 22 Mar 2013 - 1:25pm #

BTW, I didn't down-vote any comments in this thread. I don't mind the back-and-forth.

nmaxwell on 22 Mar 2013 - 4:05pm #

i am by no means an expert, but i do have a masters in exercise physiology and have had some biomechanics classes. having studied walking/running gait before, and seeing a few of these comments, i'm still thinking its unintentional. i didn't even notice before, but the left foot dragging on the turf for a yard or so looks like it's obviously before the right leg makes contact with braxton. i think he just flung his right leg forward to try and stop himself, as several people said, and ended up catching braxton in the calf. ryan has been called unorthodox, which in my mind meant he was a maniac that flew all over the place, but still got it done. i don't think he has the world's best body control or balance, and that's a good example of it. either way, braxton ended up being alright. i wouldn't wish an injury on anyone, and losing him for an extended period would have definitely cheapened the contest. not to continue beating a dead horse, but whatever

OhioBornMichiganBred on 22 Mar 2013 - 4:23pm #

I don't know man...kind of sounds like you *are* an expert...

nmaxwell on 22 Mar 2013 - 4:43pm #

sounds douchey now that i reread my comment. i know probably more than the average person that doesn't have any kind of degree in health sciences, but not a whole lot more than that. that's what i saw. but like you said, people are watching that with very different colored glasses on. just appreciate here how everyone is being respectful. i would hope if something happened to shazier (NOT saying i hope that happens), michigan blogs would be this respectful. props to you guys

southbymidwest on 22 Mar 2013 - 5:53pm #

Ehh. Dear friend's son played lacrosse in hs/college as a defender-absolute son of a gun to go up against, very physical, would definitely go right up to the edge of dirty, opposing attackmen hated him. Off the field he is one of the most diplomatic, intelligent, nicest, got-his-head-on-straight young men you could meet. Total Dr. Jeckyl/Mr. Hyde. Also, as a defender, you mess with the goalie, and you mess with the defenders, who are usually big, nasty, and have long memories. Same thing with the OL-you mess with their QB, they don't forget, especially if they think you tried to intentionally hurt him. Then again, it could have been a coincidence.

TBDBITLinWIScantSON on 22 Mar 2013 - 10:15pm #

Intentional kick is intentional kick. He kicked him. End of story.

watch it again in HD IN SLO-MO. the kicking motion started before the "streak from the left foot". You're just wrong here. If you make another reply, it's just ignorance. I just watched it again, and the kicking motion is completely obvious before he drags his left foot.

So, yes, the "streak" is before contact, but after the kicking motion started.

nmaxwell on 22 Mar 2013 - 11:12pm #

...so your word is law then? i'm saying what i saw, not being abrasive enough to tell you that you're wrong for what you saw (like you are). plenty of people would agree, plenty would disagree. i'm not saying which one of us is right, because apparently i'm 'just wrong' and ignorant regardless. only jake ryan knows what his intention was.

just funny how a kicking motion and the swing phase of the human gait look eerily similar. you know the swing phase right? that's right after your flexor hallicus longus is engaged and you finish your toe-off. from there your hip flexors, like your illiopsoas and sartorius, as well as your quadriceps, engage to flex the leg at the hip and swing the leg forward to get ready for the stance phase of gait. and apparently you're the only one in the world with access to a high def, slow motion video breakdown of the play. so we should all just go by your expertise in the audio/video field.

at the end of the day, the best people to judge this aren't ohio state fans. they're not michigan fans either. people see what the they want to see. bottom line is i'm glad braxton wasn't injured, and bummed jake ryan currently is. both seem like good guys and fierce competitors.

*dead horse successfully beaten*

BlueBayou on 23 Mar 2013 - 2:21am #

NMaxwell, I appreciate your comments, I actually feel like I may have learned something.

With that being said, I think there is still a part of the horse that hasn't been beaten. So let me flip it over and take a shot. Everyone please bear with me.

Given how close Jake Ryan got to Braxton Miller, he would have a higher probability of bringing Braxton down if he were to dive and grab Braxton than attempting to time a well placed calf kick while both players ran full speed. As you also can see, by the end of the play, if this were a purposeful kick, it completely took Jake out of the play, so if it were unsuccessful, Braxton is definitely gone. So in essence, kicking Braxton here is a very bad play. One that is more likely going to benefit the offense. Also, if injury were ones intent, diving and landing on another player offers greater opportunity for that.

Also of note, if one were running full speed and had a misstep, you wouldn't be able to push off properly with that foot, possibly causing the awkward kick out motion with the other foot dragging because your gait would be expecting a push off from that foot that never comes.

These are just a couple of thoughts on the topic and reasons why I think it most likely wasn't intentional. The only one that really knows is Jake Ryan.

TBDBITLinWIScantSON on 23 Mar 2013 - 8:32am #

TBDBITLinWIScantSON on 23 Mar 2013 - 8:36am #

I didn't say you were wrong because I have a degree. I said you were wrong because the video shows it (and not some lo-res youtube video). He lined-up to kick his leg like a place-kicker. And nice work on the down-votes (I didnt play that game)

nmaxwell on 23 Mar 2013 - 11:56am #

neither did i. some other people on this thread, buckeye fan or otherwise, must think you're abrasive too

MN Buckeye on 23 Mar 2013 - 9:44am #

TBDB, a big red flag to me is when people use the phrase 'end of story'. It sounds like someone trying to have the last word in an argument, but it never is.

NW Buckeye on 20 Mar 2013 - 4:00pm #

This is most likely why Fragel tweeted what was referenced above.

JColeman1 on 20 Mar 2013 - 2:29pm #

That suck, I wish him a speed recovery.

blueinsconsin on 20 Mar 2013 - 3:52pm #

Yeah, this one hurts. Luckily it seems Michigan is able to plug in guys on the defensive side of the ball and not see too much of a performance drop, but losing your best defensive player is never good. Hopefully he heals quickly and successfully.

Not here to troll...Go Blue

BullCityBuckeye on 20 Mar 2013 - 3:56pm #

Never like to see this type of injury when it comes to "kids", regardless of the team. Best of luck on a speedy recovery, Jake.

gobucks96 on 20 Mar 2013 - 4:04pm #

Sucks to hear. Huge loss for their defense...

BuckeyeVet on 20 Mar 2013 - 5:40pm #

Sorry to hear about Ryan. I wish him a full & speedy recovery. As an ex-soccer player (strictly amateur!) who tore both of my ACL's, I know how devastating those injuries can be.

"Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read." - Groucho Marx

kareemabduljacobb on 20 Mar 2013 - 6:40pm #

Who???

cajunbuckeye on 20 Mar 2013 - 6:51pm #

That's just bad news. I always want the best 11 on the field for The Game. Won't happen this year with Ryan on the sideline. Michiscum fans can paint it any color they want, but no one is going to fill his cleats. The guy is a warrior and I'm sure he'll return. Hope it all goes well for him.

An angry fan...rooting for an angry team...led by angry coaches

allbucksallthetime on 20 Mar 2013 - 6:59pm #

I never like to see any young man get injured and especially a good kid. I hope his recovery goes well. Go Bucks!

buckeye76BHop on 21 Mar 2013 - 3:07pm #

I don't glorify injuries...it's unfortunate and won't help tTUN's chances this year. I really wanted them to be a top ten team when we play each other 254 days. Not saying Ryan was an end all be all, but lets not kid each other, this will hurt their defense tremendously considering he was a HUGE role in how well their defense played last year. His hustle, drive and overall leadership will be a real test for tTUN's defense this year in his absence.

"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."
"I love football. I think it is most wonderful game in world and I despise to lose."
Woody Hayes 1913 - 1987

lljjgg on 21 Mar 2013 - 3:59pm #

Yeah, I agree. I don't think Michigan will drop off the map or have a bad year without Ryan by any means -- but the ideal situation for me would be two undefeated teams going into The Game. Would really help our SoS to (hopefully) beat a top 5 Michigan team, as opposed to a top 15 or even top 25 Michigan team.

Of course there's the side of me that wants Michigan to lose every game -- but that's the irrational side I try to keep quiet most of the time haha.

cajunbuckeye on 21 Mar 2013 - 9:47pm #

Michiscum dropping off the map has been my birthday wish every year since I was 8. The problem is, I don't think Canada wants it.

An angry fan...rooting for an angry team...led by angry coaches

740 on 21 Mar 2013 - 9:59pm #

is greenland taking petitions?

bigbadbuck on 22 Mar 2013 - 1:17am #

maybe it will turn into a big sinkhole and swallow itself

Battles are sometimes won by generals; wars are nearly always won by sergeants and privates. Football is no different, the guys down in the trenches win the games, not the coach.

FROMTHE18 on 21 Mar 2013 - 4:48pm #

horrible luck for that kid...hopeful for a speedy recovery.

ShowThemOhiosHere on 21 Mar 2013 - 5:18pm #

That sucks. Hard. Hope to see him back on the field in 2014.

Class of 2010.

crusher on 21 Mar 2013 - 8:11pm #

Sucks to hear. I hope he has a speedy recovery. I hate to see this happen to anyone (even a UM kid).

A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men

740 on 21 Mar 2013 - 9:58pm #

this would be terrible news if michigan didn't have such a strong qb coming back. BAHAHAHA. jk. huge loss that they can nowhere near afford.

nmaxwell on 21 Mar 2013 - 10:45pm #

maybe a little scarlet tint in your glasses. while gardner is certainly unproven, and not on the level of braxton, i think he's pretty solid overall. his numbers were pretty impressive considering he only started 5 games, and against some pretty decent defenses nonetheless. he had an oh shit moment against south carolina where he just got rid of the ball, but otherwise played pretty well. i don't see him in the heisman conversation at all like many michigan fans, but i would be surprised if he didn't end up in the top 3 or 4 QBs in the conference next year (likely behind braxton and martinez, can't think of anyone else who is significantly better)

that having been said, ryan is still a huge loss for the defense, but comes at the best possible position. a loss of his caliber on the DL or in the secondary would spell certain disaster for the defense. michigan has built LB depth to be able to find a suitable replacement, but a downgrade nonetheless

740 on 21 Mar 2013 - 10:59pm #

i've gotta tell ya, i've seen a lot of good qb's, and i've seen a lot of bad qb's. that kid may not be in the second category, but he's straddling the line.

i think it says something that they expected shane morris to compete for the job (before he put on that neat display at the ua game)

JURY SAYS: not a competitive big 10 qb.

hail2victors9 on 22 Mar 2013 - 8:39am #

I hope that OSU takes him as lightly as some of you. He may not be deserving of big-time accolades, at this point, but he is capable of being one of the two best QBs in the league.

In the four regular season B1G games he started at QB (first-ever start vs Minny and first snaps at QB all season):

57/90 (63.3%) for 1,005 yards 8 TDs, 4 Ints, ~200 yds rushing (eliminating sacks) and 7 Rushing TDs

You can argue that it was inferior competition except for OSU, but NW proved to be a pretty good team. Minnesota wasn't very good, but that game turned because of Gardner's performance. Expand those numbers to a full season to get:

171/270 for 3,015 yards, 24 TDs, 12 Ints, ~600 rush yards and 21 Rushing TDs.

It's not accurate to simply multiply it out, but it's one method. If he did exactly triple his stats, he would have surpassed Braxton in every category except having more interceptions. If you're basing your "straddling the line" comment off of only the OSU game, I understand. If not, his numbers are pretty solid and you have to take into account the fact that he only has 5 career starts (including the bowl game).

Also, I'm not sure what Michigan fans you've talked to, but those football junkies, like myself, who frequent blogs and boards have been saying since Shane committed that he will likely Redshirt, barring injury to Gardner.

Those who stay will be CHAMPIONS!
~Bo Schembechler

lljjgg on 22 Mar 2013 - 3:28pm #

I don't know what Gardner's upside is. He was the top rated dual-threat QB coming out of high school, and he had a very solid game (214 passing yards, 3TDs 1Int) against a legit defense in South Carolina -- so I do think the potential is there. I will say though, he is surprisingly less of a running threat than I thought he'd be. Not a bad runner, mobile enough, but he's not really a dual-threat QB in the conventional sense. Between the OSU game (-28 yards rushing) and South Carolina (24 yards rushing on 12 "carries") he had 4 positive yards of rushing. He's going to be more of the Tajh Boyd type than the Braxton Miller or Terrelle Pryor type. But I think Boyd has more touch on his passes. In the Minny, OSU and SCar games, I was really impressed with Gardner's short and intermediate passing game, but his deep throw is usually a floater (throw it up and hope it hits, not consistently accurate -- but very few college QBs throw a consistent deep ball).

I think Gardner could be anywhere between the 2nd best to 5th best QB in the B1G next year (after Braxton who is an obvious pick for best), but I feel that's mostly because the B1G lacks depth/talent at the QB position. I have trouble really picking a top notch QB in the B1G after Braxton at #1.

No idea why people downvoted you for that Hail. Seems like downvotes are flying randomly in this thread.

740 on 22 Mar 2013 - 6:02pm #

admitted that i've seen him sparingly, but my impression was that he throws like a scrambler, only he isn't really that great of a scrambler.

UrbanCulture on 22 Mar 2013 - 7:14pm #

Brax had more than 600 rushing yards

Buckeyevstheworld on 22 Mar 2013 - 6:59am #

I would have been more impressed if Gardner were a freshmen or sophomore.

"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.

hail2victors9 on 22 Mar 2013 - 8:53am #

He has two year's of eligibility left, so you could say he's going into his RS Junior year, and last year was his sophomore season.

Remember the growth of Braxton from his freshman season to last year...pretty big jump, right? Devin hasn't seen the field (as a primary QB) as much as Braxton did his first year. There is plenty of time for you to be impressed.

Those who stay will be CHAMPIONS!
~Bo Schembechler

cajunbuckeye on 22 Mar 2013 - 7:07pm #

Gardner wouldn't be in front of Kenny Guiton if he was at Ohio State. Wait a minute....why am I even having this discussion?

An angry fan...rooting for an angry team...led by angry coaches

thirtytrap on 22 Mar 2013 - 1:04am #

That is a shame, I enjoyed watching the young man play. I hope that he will attack physical therapy like he attacks the line of scrimmage so that he can return as soon a possible and be at full go. Of course I will be rooting against him when he plays the Bucks.