The following quote from the Troy Smith article got me thinking....
Instead, Urban Meyer’s Florida Gators ran roughshod over the Buckeyes. The loss was a gut-punch to Ohio State and set in motion a chain of events that would actually lead Meyer to Columbus. But it also extinguished a proper and deserving sendoff for Smith.
Take a look at the bolded text and really REALLY think about it.
Let's play a little would you rather.
Would you rather:
A) Win the '06 National Championship over Florida and everything else plays out the same except we do NOT get Urban. We still have all of the Tat-gate stuff happen, still lose Tress but NOT get Urban as our coach,
OR
B) Have it happen the way it did. We lose, Florida wins, Urban stresses out because of the pressure to keep winning, leaves Florida and comes to Ohio State to probably win 5 National Championships.
EDIT: No hypotheticals, no what ifs. There's no guarantee that Urban will win a National Championship. He may not, he may win 5.
Do you make that trade TODAY?
This is actually pretty tough for me. I would LOVE to have that National Championship from 06', but if it means not getting Urban, I'm not sure....
Too many what-if scenarios come into mind to be able to answer this accurately.
Well in this scenario, no what if's will happen. Everything happens exactly how it happened.
We either win he '06 championship and not get Meyer, or everything happens exactly the same.
If you need a coach that would be there instead, let's make a list.
Tim Beckman
Bo Pelini
Luke Fickle
Is any realistic option better than Urban?
Ask me again in 7yrs and if we have 5 NCs and still have Urban, then yes. If not, then maybe.
“Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect.” - Woody
I with you...
It's pretty much conditional on if Urban wins any. If he's here for 10 years and doesn't win one at all, I want the 06'.
If I had to choose right now though, I'm not sure what I would take... That's the question I'm asking.
If forced to make a choice, I think I would pick the current situation (i.e., Meyer as head coach of the Buckeyes). I think the next 5-10+ years is going to be a hell of a ride and fun to watch. Also, as ugly as the 2006 NCG was, it was a wake-up call and still serves as motivation for today's Buckeyes.
Although not part of your hypothetical choice, I honestly believe that Urban Meyer would still be the current OSU coach, regardless of the outcome of the '06 NCG. With all due respect to the Univ. of Florida, Ohio State was/is Urban's dream and destination job.
A lot of cliches come to mind but the only thing I can say right now is its way too early to say what I'd rather have because Urban has only one year here. But I love Urban and wanted him here before he was at Florida so I'm happy with the way things played out.
That's why I thought it would be a tough question...
Anyone can answer this question if, 5 years down the road, Urban has a Championship or 2...
I feel like it's a really tough question to answer right now.
a bird in the hand is better than two in the bush.
but a hand in the bush is better than a bird in the hand.
As much as I love having Urban on the sidelines, you always have to take the titles when you can get them. We're relatively spoiled now having 3 good shots in recent memory. Before that, we were waiting since '68, despite having great teams (MSU over OSU in '98 anyone??). It's too hard to get those title shots. You have to take the win and hope for the next great coach to make his way to Columbus.
If we still have tat-gate I pick the clearly positive future ahead of us. If we keep Tress and no tat--gate I would consider it because there is still a bright future ahead.
Tat-Gate happens either way.
Only difference is swapping the '06 Championship for Meyer
Can't do it then, because I would feel that opens up OSU to not getting a coach of Meyer's caliber and thus we could go down the wrong direction. If Meyer simply duplicates Tress' success I'll be happy, I think he'll do that in more. I never trade past glories for the good chance of future ones.
Agreed. There were a lot of sources (well-plugged sources) that were saying Gene Smith was leaning towards Bo Pelini last year, and Wexner had to intervene and say Meyer was the guy.
I can't imagine having Pelini (or someone else of "B" caliber) coaching the team.
The fact that Urban is from Ohio, and got his start under Earle Bruce, is just icing on the cake.
We really lucked out in landing him.
How firm they friendship...
Hands down '06 title. My favorite Buckeye team ever with Troy Smith capping off a perfect season with the Heisman AND the crystal ball? I love Meyer but this is too easy.
NC Buckeye.
2006 championship.
I'm fairly certain if we'd won 2006, we'd have won 2007. That game was going well until Robiskie had the TD knocked out of hands and then the FG attempt got blocked. Instead of 17-10 Bucks, it was 17-10 Tigers and the stupid mistakes started. At that point, the whole team started to mentally collapse. You could see it. If 2006 didn't happen, I don't think we lose 2007. We were not outclassed in that game.
That's not the deal...
Everything else is the same. We go back to the NCG and lose the next year, Tat-gate happens.... the whole deal
The question is '06 title or Urban Meyer?
Still 06. Ask me again if Meyer wins a title and I'd change that answer.
Definitely the title. Urban could win a lot, but none of that is guaranteed.
How many people would want Meyer if lets say we beat LSU and tat-gate never happened? Even if Meyer still stepped away at Florida?
Dustin Fox was our leading tackler as a corner.... because his guy always caught the ball.
My guess is no one....
Give me the '06 championship. Teddy G doesn't get hurt and burns the Florida secondary all game. Oh BTW, the final score is 41 - 14 Bucks as UF gets humiliated and the SEC reign of terror is stopped before it's ever started. Tim Tebow gains 50 lbs, becomes the third Pouncey twin, and plays back-up long snapper.
I can dig that...
JeremyTwoFace: I'm not trying to be a wet blanket or a semantic ninny. I love "what if" scenarios, hypothetical questions, "would you rather?" games, and alternate history discussions. Your question is very interesting. The choice that it ponders, however, involves two different planes of reality - the real future, versus an abstract past (of which no one would have any memories).
If the Buckeyes had won a championship in 2006/07, I want to have watched it happen. I want to be able to savor the memories for years afterward.
Obviously, it'd be great if the Buckeyes proud program could simply add another trophy to the case, banner in the stadium, and statistic to the record books, as if such things could be added on - after the fact - like they were rediscovered royalty payments.
Sorry, but I'll take the real past and the real future, however it turns out.
Fair enough...
But isn't that what all hypothetical questions address? An alternate reality that no one has any memory of?
If it actually happened, it would no longer be hypothetical.
Obviously, in the alternate reality, you would have the memories and the joy from winning the National Championship. You don't exactly know what that feels like, but that's why it's hypothetical.
Well, no, I think that the ways these types of scenarios logically "work" - purely in theory, of course - is that you give the responder an option of going back to some previous moment in time, while assuming a different key outcome (e.g., Ohio State winning the 2006/07 NC), as well as all new scenarios that might have entailed as a result; or they can choose status-quo.
When you strip out all the alternate history that might have happened after the key variable is changed, then you get what you're suggesting - simply an abstract change in the history books that no one actually experienced in reality. Otherwise, if they had, today would have looked different than it does now.
Thus, you're proposing, in essence, that we can choose between what's essentially an artificial "correction" in the ledger-of-time versus a flesh-and-blood future under the Urban Meyer regime.
Ok I gotcha.
Well what I am proposing, in this case, is that Urban Meyer (because he didn't win the 2006 Championship) didn't have the stress put on him that he would have had in actual reality when he did win the championship. Therefore, he didn't retire from coaching only to come back a year later to coach our Buckeyes.
I see what you are saying.. and I could have went into greater detail about what would have happened, but I wanted it to be as simple as possible.
I'm sure I'm in the minority,but give me Urban Meyer!! Can't discount what he does off the field as well,with his relentless recruiting staff,community work,etc. Could we have gotten a better coach,regardless of 5 national titles?? I think not!!
SCOTTC.
This is why it's so hard for me..
Tress was a great recruiter, but not like Meyer.
Also, all the stuff that Urban Meyer is doing to try to change the face of the B1G conference as a whole is much more than Tress would have done IMO.
But man... another National Championship sounds so good.
I'm very....very glad UFM is here.
But you live for the moment. I'd take the '06 title without blinking. As stated before we won in '68, missed by an extra point to USC in '79, pissed away (sparing the details) on viable shots at NC's in '95, '96 and '98, won in '02.
No guarantees, you go for the opportunities when presented.
"Success - it's what you do with what you got" - Woody Hayes
Right now - option A. Give me the National Championship!
I would take the title. I love Urban but the title is a done deal. I would consider Urban a success with one title and no off field issues.
Actually, I've been thinking about this for a while & it's almost too tough for me to answer...If there was a gun to my head, I guess I would have to say take Urban, but I say that with a serious amount of pause & wondering why I wouldn't take the NC. Urban is obviously a great coach but as of this time, none of us has a crystal ball, and a future NC is not guaranteed. But like I said, I guess I would roll the dice on this & gamble that UFM will end up being worth it. Tough call. Good question.
The world is full of kings & queens who'll blind your eyes & steal your dreams - it's heaven & hell - Ronnie James Dio.
Easy. Championship. It will remain an easy decision until Urban wins one.
Championship. You take those when you can get them. If Urban brings 1 or more, I reserve the right to change my answer.
"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes
THE Ohio State University
Who says we wouldn't have gotten Urban anyway?
Urban still would've had Tebow and would've won a title. The Gators weren't supposed to win. The national perception of the Florida program under Meyer would've been the same. On the other hand, if we won, the next year's loss to LSU would've been easier to stomach. Not to mention the perception of OSU embarrassing itself on big stage wouldn't be an issue. Urban would still be an elite coach that OSU would have wanted when Tat-gate hit. Given his ties to the program and the out that he had written in his contract, he would've ended up here anyway.
I'll take that national championship.
Me lol.
You have to give up something... That's what this is all about.
Of course I would take the '06 National Championship if Meyer still ended up in Columbus. But that's not what I'm asking.
If I have to pick one or the other I'll take the title in 2006. Let's face it, there are no guarranttees Meyer will ever win one here. If we win 2006, that's 2 titles in 4 years for the university.
Of course, everything else still would of happened. The B1G would gone on a donward spiral. Tressel and the players would of cheated, Meyer would of left Florida etc. Given the choice though, I'll take the title every time.
Urban ...hands down..yes we would have had the 06 title but if tatgate goes down anyway and we dont have a top notch coach to lead us back from that. The 06 championship may have been the last time we would even have a chance at a nc for a long time
Battles are sometimes won by generals; wars are nearly always won by sergeants and privates. Football is no different, the guys down in the trenches win the games, not the coach.
06 championship EASILY.
Anyone who says otherwise gets the proverbial side eye from me.
ill take urbs now. i would have liked to have seen beanie get more touches. more importantly, i woulda liked to have seen the game be closer. urban will deliver
mark may wins douchebag of the year... again
Definitely the 06 title. We've been so close too many times in the past with John C. and came away empty handed.
On a side note, we all know that if Teddy doesn't get hurt, that game is a different story. The field becomes much smaller for the Florida defense and they can come after Smith and stack the box. That game killed our confidence so if we beat Florida that year, I think we also whip LSU in 07.
Tressel - 3 NC's in 7 years. How's the BIG (mainly OSU) looking now?!
We beat UF I dont think Meyer becomes our coach. We beat UF and LSU in back to back years I could see Tressel retiring and them naming Fickell as replacement before Meyer was ready to leave UF. Weren't they kind of grooming Fick to be the heir apparent anyway?
Eh, as heartbroken as I was after losing to the Crocodiles (especially hearing the taunts from my UF fan cousins), it wasn't the end of the world and did not spoil 42-39 in The Game. We will be back long before UF will. Judging by the class Muschamp and his boys showed in the Sugar Bowl I hope they never even sniff a title game again.
"Sherman ran an option play right through the south" - Greatest.Civil.War.Analogy.Ever
In a heartbeat I would take the championship. I like having Meyer, but having a coach does not guarantee anything. I would have loved to see Troy Smith leave with the trophy, never start Tebow-mania and the SEC dick slobbering that we have been subjected to for the last 7 years. I remember I had a feeling before that game that something awful might happen. I decided to watch it alone in my house. To erase the pain of watching that nightmare, I would be willing to give up a lot.
That 06 team was just so special to watch.
Beating Texas in Austin and scUM as #1 vs #2
Teddy, Gonzo, Pittman, Jenkins, Little Animal, Beanie and of course....
Watching Troy Smith win the Heisman
The only thing missing was that crystal ball so give me the National Championship.
The '06 title in a heartbeat.
Had they won, they would have been the only team ever to go start-to-finish #1 while beating three different AP #2 teams. They would have gone down as arguably the greatest college football team of all-time.
Very good point...
Meyer. College football is quite the fickle mistress, and even the blue bloods can go through down years and irrelevancy; just look at Tennessee, USC, and Michigan--hell, even 'Bama was going through tough times prior to Saban. Not getting Meyer means that there's a good chance we'd be getting Fick in the next 5-10 years when Tressel left (or, if we're counting Tatgate, possibly Pellini or Dantonio). The bottom line is that none of those guys are anywhere near the sure bet that Meyer is. Meyer's hiring was actually an upgrade for the program, and his efforts on the recruiting trail are helping to make our team even more athletic (read: competitive with the SEC) than the perennial contenders that Tressel produced.
The future in this game is never guaranteed, but having a guy like Urban Meyer to be the custodian of your program is as sure of a bet as anything this side of Nick Saban, and that is worth everything to me--even a championship. I'd take a decade of ten-and-eleven-win top-five seasons to one championship and relative irrelevancy before or after. Call me crazy, but the fact that my team's always a contender is a blessing that should never be overlooked: I wish my Reds and Bengals shared a similar consistency. In a game that has almost zero parity amongst its teams, consistency is the key to excellence: it gets you boosters to upgrade facilities, it gets you the best recruits, it puts you on the minds of every pollster--without it, you're at a severe disadvantage.
So yeah, I'd trade a title for Urban Meyer. Even if he can't bring home the crystal football, there's a damn good chance that his presence will set us up for an even better future than anyone else could have provided in Tressel's wake--and whatever that future holds, I'm that much more excited for it by having Urban.
I couldn't have said it any better. I wouldn't trade the present for anything. Ohio State could easily become the most coveted coaching job in college football. Urban Meyer isn't building a football team, he's constructing a football machine built of athletes, students, alumni, and fans. There's an energy that the program exudes that I never felt when the Vest was at the helm.
An angry fan...rooting for an angry team...led by angry coaches
I'm amazed how easily people forget the buzz around Ohio State during that '06 run. You would think JT produced average teams by some of these post.
"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.
I have the utmost respect and admiration for what Jim Tressel did while he was at tOSU. The OP is about a having a trophy or having Urban Meyer. Tressel put the program back on the nations biggest college football stages. I think he cared for the program and the players to a fault. Thank you Coach T, for all you did. That being said, I think Urban Meyer has the ability to take this program far beyond what Tress envisioned
An angry fan...rooting for an angry team...led by angry coaches
2006 National championship.
I believe some are so caught up in Urban, they've forgotten what that year was like. That or they were too young to remember/care.
- Beat down Texas in Austin.
- Troy's pass against Penn St.
- Gonzo's run against Iowa.
- Wrecking M*chigan's undefeated season.
- Troy Smith winning the Heisman.
That loss to Florida put a stain on what was a fantastic year. That '06 Buckeye team spent the entire season(before the Florida loss) at #1. I don't think some realize what it would have meant for the most beloved coach since Woody to bring Buckeye Nation another National championship.
Who knows what it could have done for recruiting.
"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.
That particular group with a title would of gone down as one of the best teams in recent college football history.
Not to mention it would have quieted some of the S-E-C noise.
"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.
The 06 title would have also given JT his 2nd National Championship and put him even higher up in the pantheon of all time great coaches
A guaranteed National Title is hard to pass up ... but so is a coach of Urban's quality when replacing the Senator.
Also if we win the title, do we get Braxton to eventually come here or does he go elsewhere?
Too many possibilities, I'll stick with how things have worked out but if I HAD to pick I go National Title, that's two in my lifetime and not many fans can say that about their team.
JT
I would say that everything else plays out the same except Urban Meyer doesn't come here (let's say he retires in 2012 after we already hired a different coach or doesn't retire at all), which in turn, would affect the past 2 recruiting years.
But other than that, everything is the same.
The title in 2006 for sure. That was my freshman year at OSU and we were ready to celebrate all night long. Turns out we just ended up drinking to forget that night.
I want to be in Columbus for a championship celebration so if they get back the game this year, I'll be down in town for it.
Urban. I spend every Saturday watching my Buckeyes and never miss a game. There have been many Saturdays in the past when we've won and I can't wait it to be over so I can watch a game with some real offense. I loved Tress but let's face it there was some games that were just boring football. Thank the Good Lord we've had some AWESOME defenses. At least they were fun to watch. Now we have a quality coach AND an exciting offense. For me personally that is going to be so much fun to watch!
Gonna have to agree with most of the people on this one. Give me the 06 title - that loss hurt so much. I love Urban now, but man that was a tough one to swallow, especially given how awesome the preceeding season was. Ah well - here's hoping for multiple NCs in the not-too-distant future!
"Sometimes you eat the bear and sometimes the bear eats you."
I still haven't been able to swallow it. This was harder to take than any loss to M*chigan in the Coop era.
"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.
Glad to see some well thought out opinions here! This is what makes 11 Warriors the least insane of all the OSU fan sites.
I expected 80% in favor to say Urban Meyer, b/c he guarantees multiple championships. There are a lot of crazy, entitled OSU football fans, but glad to see they haven't raided this community.
*internet fist bump*
Gun to my head, I would take the '06 title. I absolutely loved that team.
How firm they friendship...
Your screen name made me LOLz
Long Beach in da house!!!!
How firm they friendship...
"This is what makes 11 Warriors the least insane of all the OSU fan sites."
I just bought these shoes and shorts to wear during the B1G championship game tomorrow.
"Don't put syrup on shit, and tell me it's pancakes"
No matter how sh*tty the tour is, it's always tough to leave.
Yeah I'm the same way...
I figured most people would be living in the present and want Meyer over the Championship.
Looks like the majority of people would take the National Championship.
Very cool to hear everybody's opinions.
That '06 game is the reason my kids think every cold blooded animal is a crocodile. Very early in their lives, I corrected them every time they said the word alligator. That game was flipping painful. I don't think I have ever gotten that hammered because of a sporting event (except for during the next NCG).
With that said, this is still a VERY hard question to answer especially because of the hope I have and my confidence in Urban. Part of my confidence in Urban, I must admit, is also because he kicked the crap out of us in '06. I think I have to take Urban because it will be so sweet to hear the crap coming out of those Crocodile fans when we win multiple championships with "their coach". After all, if it was all over now and we had a different coach, would we be having this much fun now?
GO BUCKS!!!!
06 National Title; that loss still hurts.
"Don't put syrup on shit, and tell me it's pancakes"
No matter how sh*tty the tour is, it's always tough to leave.
No question - A. Bird in the hand.
Are you seriously predicting 5 championships at OSU under Urban? C'mon, man.
No... I was saying that to say that that's one of the talking points. We have no way of knowing how many he will win. He may win none. He may win the next 10. I'm not predicting he will win the next 10, I'm just saying that we have no way of knowing
I'm ecstatic that we have UFM. '06 hurt a lot and it unleashed the SEC on their cocky, yet earned, rampage on college football. But I'm a huge believer in character-building and IMHO, humility is a crucial part of building character. If you don't have painful chapters, the success story isn't nearly as intriguing. If the history of college football has taught us anything, it's that all dynasties end. Notre Dame's/TSUN's in the early 20th century, Bear Bryant's, Nebraska's in the mid 90's, Miami's (that one was a wonderful catalyst to their decade-long struggles), USC's (I remember when they had something like 5 top rated running backs in one class), Florida's, and so will Bama's. The cyclical nature of college football will allow certain fan bases to become inflated for a while and then, just like a market bubble, their status bursts violently and then they're back down in the character-building humble stage. Of course this all stems from my belief in the free market and my humility as a Browns fan, so take it with a grain of salt if you must.
Go Bucks!
yes