Some rumors swirling that Delaney met with UVA and UNC today. Sounds like B1G wants to wait until Maryland lawsuit is settled, and may look to announce adding more teams in late April. 11W staff, have you heard anything regarding this recently?
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I'll bet the ACC schools want to wait until the lawsuit is settled more. That way they can ride the coattails of that decision.
I'm sure they do want to coattail.
But we should not let them ... you're in or you're not. If you are in, then withdraw as a Plaintiff, and presumably U Md would be on the hook for less damages.
Then, if Md wins, you can come over with no exit fee. If they lose, we'll help offset your fees (with a draw against your BTN revenues)
Could you hook up a link to some of these rumors?
I saw it mostly from people retweeting this dude:
https://twitter.com/MHver3
Not sure how reliable he is, but those would be pretty specific rumors to fabricate.
Sadly this WV fan is one of the worst at "throwing stuff against the wall" I still find him and Tuxedo Yoda and The Dude of WV entertaining but, they get a lot more wrong than they get right.
"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes
THE Ohio State University
It wouldn't surprise me. My guess is Ga Tech is already in the fold, and now they are talking to the other 2. I think the next phase is 4 teams. Would be shocked if it's Ga Tech, UNC, UVA, and Kansas or something like that.
Not to push another blog, but for expansion talk it's hard to beat Frank The Tanks Slant. He has good insights and has a lot of people commenting who have p retty good information about it too.
18 team conference? I'd imagine UVA and GT would be the likeliest candidates. I am not sure if UNC would leave with strong ties to the conference and all but I would like to see them in the B1G the most.
Nebraska had pretty strong ties to Big 12 too.
Indeed they did. But for UNC, this is a financial opportunity to get more stability and obviously more revenue. I really think UNC is the strongest/most impressive team the B1G has a reasonable shot with.
But if UVA and UNC bolt for the B1G, the Big East may be in serious trouble because UCONN and Cincy are probably going to take their spots.
I disagree. Nebraska was part of the Big 12 but was obviously unhappy with the conference. I haven't seen anything that points to UNC being unhappy.
Man the basketball would be awesome if true!
True.
Nebraska was Big 8, and never reconciled to the SWC teams coming in to the Big XII. They hated Texas from the get go ... for good reason!!
Maryland was a charter member of the ACC and they moved. Granted it's not the brand UNC is, but when a charter member(no matter who it is) bolts for another conference, anyone is in play.
GT is a major TV opportunity with access to the Atlanta market. UNC and Duke would have to be a package deal. My guess is UVA would justify the footprint to make it 4 more teams, under this model. This would be a major TV deal with even more financial opportunities VA, GA, and NC.
Between the new additions of Maryland and Rutgers, and with these 4 schools listed above, the B1G expanded its footprint by at least 47 million when looking at the potential TV markets. That is major considering the entire NYC/NJ market is a factor in addition to the Washington DC market. Now add in Atlanta and the NC/VA markets. That is a multi-billion dollar deal in the future that the B1G is drooling for.
Word from Tuxedo Yoda (Big 12 expansion expert) is that change is indeed afoot in the coming months. Big 12 is looking at adding FSU and Miami, but those two schools want a block of 4 eastern schools in come with them for scheduling/travel purposes. No word on what other schools FSU and Miami are advocating for, although Clemson is one and may eschew the SEC and go to the Big 12.
The SEC is not happy about the Big 12 invading the south. They've made their peace with the B1G coming in (not really interested in the same schools that the B1G), but they see the Big 12 as a big threat to their southern dominance.
Things finally seem to be moving on the expansion front! Interesting stuff...
My guess is Clemson has to be in the mix for SEC. Rivalries all throughout the conference.
I'd say the 4 would be: Clemson, FSU, Miami, and Va Tech, if they were drawing from the ACC.
Those are likely the four that the SEC and Big 12 both want and will battle over!
let them fight and we will just sneak unc, uva, duke, and g tech to the b1g
Screw Duke. Seriously. When Krzyzewski retires (the guy is 66 yo... it's going to happen sooner rather than later), Duke is going to fall off a cliff in their D-I sports. Look at what happened to Georgetown basketball after the elder Thompson retired. That's what will happen at Duke. We'd basically have another Northwestern in the league at that point. Small school, very small alumni base, no demographics to add for broadcast negotiations. Just an academically respected AAU member. That's not enough.
WE SHOULD BE GOING AFTER THE SEMINOLES INSTEAD.
#fistpumpgobuckeyes
You are totally on the money with this post. Well done.
Yeah I agree. Although I am not as sure of the VT pick but definitely Clemson. Clemson could even be a dark horse contender for the B1G. But nevertheless, I'd expect them to leave the ACC.
In the end, Big East is in serious trouble when Cincy and Uconn leave for the ACC. They are begging for more expansion. Maybe the Big East will have to integrate into the ACC when all is and said done with SEC/B1G expansion.
Clemson makes a lot of sense for them, but I've read (and do not have the source!!!) that SEC won't allow any additional in-state adds.
If someone has the authority for this, can you please provide it.
I have no authority to reference but just as an opinion, I think we've seen the last of in-state rivalries or multiple teams from the same state in the same conference.
Revenue nowdays is largely based on cable subscriptions, not viewership. If I have, for example, South Carolina in my conference, I am already on almost all basic cable in the state of South Carolina. Adding Clemson therefore adds almost no money but does add one more school to divide profits by.
Same reason UNC and Duke ultimately won't end up in the same conference.
Here it is:
http://outkickthecoverage.com/sec-expansion-league-unlikely-to-add-members-in-current-states.php
Interesting - and it shows that even though the author was logical, that he turned out to be wrong
Also, here is an off-the-wall read on what Delaney might do to get to 20. It's from a Big 12'ers perspective so take it with a grain of salt.
The article suggests that Delaney may shoot for the moon and go after AAU schools Vandy and Florida. The SEC has no grant-of-rights agreement and the B1G can indeed offer more money to any school it wants to pursue.
Those fan bases would shart solid bricks if this even got to the serious discussion phase!
I didn't read the entire article but there was a similar article posted on this site I believe, a few days ago. It was by 'Mr. SEC' and he made two strong points about why the B1G is a easier sell than the SEC. What was interesting is that the comments turned into people talking about how reasonable a FLA -> B1G move would be, including gator fans!
I don't think it would happen, but it makes me think about it when more and more people start to bring it up.
WB
Florida to the B1G would be amazing! I just hope that the egghead can get over the AAU thing and take FSU if nothing else. Being in Florida is pretty important for football recruiting.
On another note, I know it would be a project, but I think with the right investments, UCF could become a powerhouse. Located in Orlando, student body of almost 60,000 (similar to OSU), and while its stadium is on the small side by B1G standards (45,000) it is newer and easily expandable. U.S. News & World Report named UCF the fifth-best up-and-coming national university.
From Wikipedia:
UCF is currently the largest university in the nation by terms of undergraduate enrollment, the largest university in Florida, and in 2003 held the distinction of being the fastest-growing university in the United States. During its Spring 2010 graduation ceremonies, the University of Central Florida awarded its 200,000th degree, less than five years after awarding its 150,000th diploma.
"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes
THE Ohio State University
Good business sense, but I strongly oppose.
I love rooting for the BIG (and Pac) because the quality of the schools make me feel morally superior.
I do not want to be like the rest!!
I would be amazed if Florida and Vanderbilt happened, but it's be a coup for sure. Now tack on UVA and GA Tech. Some nice recruiting areas there- Florida, Tennessee, Virginia, and Georgia.
I honestly don't see UNC as a packaged deal with Duke. I would think that the state gov't may want NC State and UNC to be a package, but obviously if one goes to the B1G and 1 goes to the SEC both are in good shape. I see Duke ultimately in that Catholic 7 basketball league that's going to start up. Maybe I'm undervaluing Duke I don't know. With Michigan, Penn State, and Wisky though, we already have enough D-bag fans in the conference, do we really need to add Duke?
Amen
I'm sure UNC will try very hard to pacakage themselves with Duke due to the history between the two schools, but in the end I suspect you're right; The money (on the plus side) and threat of being left out of the eventual new landscape (after the ACC is done being pillaged) will be too much. UNC will abandon Duke if that's the only way to get into a solid conference situation. It isn't their preference, but they'll do it.
Now if you're Delaney, I don't think your worry is separating UNC and Duke. There are many ways to convince UNC. I think your worry is somebody else coming in- SEC in particular- and offering UNC the chance to come over along with Duke.
My money is still on us adding UVA, UNC, GA Tech, and one other TBD. I suspect that one other will be FSU or Kansas, although rather large obstacles exist in both cases.
I think we'll see VA Tech, NC State, and possibly Duke in the SEC. I think we'll see FSU (if not to the B1G), Clemson, and possibly Miami or UCF to the Big Twelve, along with maybe Cincinnati, BYU, or Boise.
That's all just my thoughts of course. I have no special inside info, unfortunately.
Just curious, do you see UNC fans as less irritating than Duke fans?
XII is looking east, not west.
Boise offers very very little.
I think the Pac would accept BYU in a heartbeat. They already agreed to accommodate the Sunday prohibitions.
Wish the BIG wasn't into contiguous adds. I would grab G Tech and then beg N Dame again. When they reject us again, I'd take BC.
I always tend to leave out BC, but you're right they do have many of the factors that Delaney has considered important.
I have really mixed feelings about Notre Dame. I understand the dollars, the history, etc, but I don't like the idea of continuing to go after them after basically being turned down over the years. Part of me wants to say "screw them" and watch as they end up desperate for a home (although then I'm fairly sure that home would the B12).
I am with you, and I am as spiteful as anyone out there.
But I'd grovel for the history, the tradition and the academics.
My fantasy is making them our bitch
So who else is the Pac-12 after? If the SEC and B1G expand in the coming months, than the Pac 12 will have to expand too, they want to get to 16 to keep up.
BYU is a good fit.
San Diego St?
Boise St?
Any of those Big 12 teams they did not get a few years ago?
I think the Pac12 is kind of stuck. They won't be able to follow what most conferences are doing by staying away from same state universities (like BYU or SDSU). I guess they could go after SMU or Houston. But there aren't too many good options.
Texas, anyone who Texas tells them to take,and BYU
No other, no how. They are prepared to stay at 12 and keep their 22% share of television sets until 2050
I'm fine with it, especially since Oregon and Stanford revived. So long as the Pac keeps the BIG affiliation + NDame, the status quo is palatable
I am sure they are going after Texas, but if the Big XII is successful at pulling any of those ACC schools then they won't go anywhere (as you said). I didn't mention them because I just don't think it is likely.
I don't see any conference wanting to add Duke into their fold. While their college basketball presence is big they have absolutely no value in football. I also don't see a lot of value in GA Tech. I know they are a prominent academic school but I don't know if they add the value you are seeking. You have to also look at what school is going to dominate the large market. Atlanta is still going to be dominated by SEC schools.
It still gets the BTN into Atlanta and gives the B1G a presence in Georgia to help recruiting.
That is true. I guess I am just not a huge fan of making that large of a geographical jump just for a TV market that (lets face it) isn't going to have a lot of viewers as compared to an SEC game. I would rather focus on a more logical geographic shift (i.e. Virginia/North Carolina/NY/Boston) than make a leap all the way into Georgia.
Wouldn't Boston be a bigger Geographic leap though? With teams in Maryland, Virginia, and NC, Georgia would then be a contiguous state for the B1G. Massachuessetes wouldn't. Getting BC would get the BTN in Boston's market, but would ratings really be any better for a college football game up there?
If you add Virginia, NC then Georgia it makes some sense but IMO the geographic jump of NYC (Rutgers) to Boston is pretty small. They are really the only to larger size programs in the Northeast (not including Syracuse). To go from right now Maryland to Georgia is a big leap. Even adding Virginia or NC along with GT it is still a larger leap to go to Georgia than it is from NYC to Boston.
Assuming Rutgers delivers NYC, maybe it's less of a jump, but I really don't think it is. I don't know. I'd rather be in Atlanta than Boston. Recruiting wise it's a better advantage to be in Georgia. Urban is having some success down there, if these Georgia kids get to catch a few Ohio State and other games from B1G schools it may help loosen that state up a bit for the B1G as a whole.
Duke fans are only irritating at Cameron Indoor where their seats are a foot from the floor. They join the B1G they can go sit in the nosebleed sections for all I care.
So when the atom bomb dust has settled there's just going to be 4 power conferences? ACC is toast after this, right? Is it wrong for me to say I dont want to see the ACC die? Yeah, we got Maryland and I wouldnt mind adding GT. But a 20-school B1G? It doesn't excite me. it just seems too much.
Or is it a matter of the B1G only acting so the SEC doesn't eventually swallow us up, too?
"Sherman ran an option play right through the south" - Greatest.Civil.War.Analogy.Ever
The one nice thing about a 20 team B1G is you could split divisions into traditional B1G teams and new B1G teams.
So the B1G conference would have subdivisions titled: 1. Big Ten and 2. ACC ??
Yep that sounds about right.
I thought Pitt would have been ideal. Proximity/location, tradition, pretty strong academically, usually solid in both football and basketball, great recruiting area...then there's the whole Mark May aspect. It would be worth it every year to watch MayDay melt down.
Pitt makes sense, but OSU has always opposed their entry.
Plus Delaney knows we already own that market without them
Perhaps with JoePa and Beano Cook passing, the bitterness between PSU and Pitt may be over? I always thought that was a major hurdle.
"Don't put syrup on shit, and tell me it's pancakes"
No matter how sh*tty the tour is, it's always tough to leave.
Cable subscription dollars- no point in adding Pitt when you've got Penn State. Won't move the needle on cable subscription numbers and just divides the pie by one more.
Personally I'd rather have Pitt than Penn State, but that ship sailed long ago.
Agree on your first point. Pitt adds absolutely no market value to the B1G at this point. The only way they get added is if we move to an 18 team conference with eyes on 20 and we allow them to join in at that point. Unless we're getting into a place where we have no market yet, the expansion from 18 teams to 20 teams won't add much there. And really, by that point in time, there are so few schools that we can add that would create waves as a new market (and ND isn't one of them). It'd be almost a move to solidify either (2) 10 team divisions of (4) pods of 5.
Adding Nebraska was a great move. It added one of the all-time great football programs while preserving the essential character of the B10. Adding ND would've been a great move for similar reasons, but the Domers are too blinded by their own pride and arrogance to see that. Adding Rutgers and Maryland is nothing but a cash grab, and announced the death knell for the B10 or even the B1G. Raiding the ACC for teams like Duke, UNC, and UVA will certainly bring in some excellent academic institutions and plenty more cash, but it will dilute the B1G beyond recognition. I suggest a new name, a new branding campaign, and a new logo to match --maybe a fat cow with a big dollar sign on its side.
How about a logo of a nice fat goose sitting on a golden egg in front of a big screen TV with BTN playing? Seems that's what's driving the whole process. I really don't care as long as the quality of the athletics don't suffer and someday we can stop continuously hearing about the great and powerful SEC' dominance.
ernie
Just out of curiosity, why do you guys think that schools like Kentucky, West Virginia, and Virginia Tech haven't jumped into the conversation?
They are not AAU schools.
True. But I feel like you at least would have to throw a feeler out. Kentucky basketball is something you don't say no to if they want to join.
Its something the Presidents of the B1G universities would say no to.
They're dead serious about AAU. Notre Dame would get a pass on AAU status, and potnetially Florida State's supposed five year plan to AAU membership might get them in, but otherwise you can forget about any non AAU school.
Kentucky would never leave the SEC. They are a charter member, and they are very proud to call themselves a "Southern University"(even if they aren't southern at all).
Also, the BTN already had a presence in NKY and Louisville which are 2 of the 3 biggest markets in KY. You would really only add Lexington, and I'm not sure, but it may already be available there.
It's available but not on basic cable, you have to pay extra. On another note though not a chance in hell UK leaves the SEC
That was kind of my point, no way UK leaves and no way the B1G is interested.
For my 2 cents. Here is how I would like to see the breakdown, in order of my preference:
1. ND, 2. Virginia, 3. Vandy 4. UNC
ND has to join a conference at some point in time. The B1G makes the most sense on all factors. Virginia is a great school, great non-revenue sports, up and coming state in population and good alumni base. Vandy another great school. Moves the B1G more into the south and into a good population center (Nashville). UNC would be great but I think it might be a tough pull. If the B1G is adding four teams they are definitely in.
Not a bad list.
I would add to 16 and then stop:
1. N Dame
2-3. BC and Syracuse
4. G Tech
5. UNC
6. U VA
NOONE ELSE
97.1 The Fan reporting NC has an Offer to join the B1G
Lots of VA fans in the Northern VA/DC area. I used to live in Richmond and saw more VA stickers on cars than any other school.
If the B1G is going after TV markets, the 3 that make the most sense are GT (Atlanta), VA (Northern VA), and Vandy (Nashville). ND may scrap thier ACC plan and join the B1G when they see their future conference start to disintegrate.
"Sherman ran an option play right through the south" - Greatest.Civil.War.Analogy.Ever
I read somewhere (don't have a link) That Va Tech has the most fans in that DC area, but having Maryland and Virginia would help the B1G capture that market pretty well. I really don't see the B1G going after any of the SEC members. Maybe Missouri, but even that I don't buy. I really think the B1G and SEC are kind of working together. They know both can get what they want and both prosper as a result. B1G can have UNC, Ga Tech, and UVA if they want them because they give the B1G AAU schools and allow them to extend their footprint without stepping on the SEC's toes. Similarly, The B1G doesn't care much about NC State and Va Tech going to the SEC. They both will get what they want by the ACC evaporating, and will solidify themselves even more as the 2 most powerful conferences in the NCAA.
UVA is big in northern VA but VT is king here. However, UVA is still a great addition for the B1G.
"Attack the Strong, Trample the Weak, Hurdle the Dead!"
-Former OSU S&C Coach Lichter
What part are you in? Hampton Roads (Tidewater if you're older) is all over due to the military, but from what I see, a lot of Va Tech
"Don't put syrup on shit, and tell me it's pancakes"
No matter how sh*tty the tour is, it's always tough to leave.
I live in Northern VA, hence the 703 in my username.
"Attack the Strong, Trample the Weak, Hurdle the Dead!"
-Former OSU S&C Coach Lichter
Got it...figured that was your area code, just didn't look it up.
"Don't put syrup on shit, and tell me it's pancakes"
No matter how sh*tty the tour is, it's always tough to leave.
Wasn't the case until Beamer (I grew up in Silver Spring, MD). VT is still a bit of a drive. I think a strong UMD would own the Balt/Wash/NoVa market. Especially if we can bring some of their ACC buds with us.
Cause I couldn't go for three
It's not about number of fans, but about potential TV subscribers (market size).
UVA does next to nothing for the B1G in terms of fanbase. NOVA is all about VT. I met one UVA fan in my 10 years living in NOVA. There are more Penn State fans than UVA fans in NOVA.
http://www.landgrantholyland.com/2013/2/19/4005512/report-north-carolina...
Eventually there will be so much expansion that we will end up with two mega conferences that then decide to merge together and become one conference. The conference will then divide all of its members into divisions.
Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Illinois, Northwestern, Indiana, Purdue, Iowa, and Penn State being in one division.
Texas, Texas Tech, Texas A&M, Oklahoma, Kansas, Kansas State, Baylor, Nebraska, Colorado, Oklahoma State, Missouri, and Iowa State in one division.
Alabama, LSU, Florida, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Kentucky, South Carolina, Arkansas, Georgia, and Auburn in one division.
USC, Cal, UCLA, Oregon, Washington, Washington State, Oregon State, Arizona, Arizona State, and Stanford in one division.
Maryland, North Carolina, NC State, Duke, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Georgia Tech, Clemson, Miami, Florida State, Boston College, and Wake Forest in one division.
etc...
Then let Notre Dame and the military schools schedule whoever they want. There will be cross divisional games played early in the year with division play starting a few weeks into the season. The winner of each division gets a berth in the Conference championship tournament along with a few wild cards. The winner is the Conference/National Champion.
I think that is called the NCAA. Each division would be called Big Ten, Big 12, SEC, Pac 10, ACC East.
Yes basically. Except the NCAA is not a conference. This would be a conference and the divisions would not have control over themselves. The NCAA would actually be rendered useless because the conference would discipline itself and take care of its own matters while the money it makes goes to the member schools just like a small conference would.
Ideally I would want Florida State, Virginia, Notre Dame and North Carolina. We need to go after UNC and Virginia first then when FSU and ND see that the ACC isn't going to last, take them too. I would shit myself if Jim Delaney actually pulls it off but damn it would be awesome. As far as the UNC Duke rivalry goes they could just play each other OOC once or twice a year regardless of what conferences they end up in.
i live in NC and the local radio guys are in such denial about the possibility of the acc getting raped and pillaged by the b1g and the big12, they siad its like a herpes flare up every month or so with the rumors and that there is NO WAYYY this is happening. Those guys need to join us in the real world, the one ran by money and better tv deals and increased exposure