PHONE'S RINGING -- IT'S URBAN ON THE LINE
Will they ever see the field as Linebackers?
Of course.. they were true freshmen this year... lots of football left to be played for.them.
Gotta remember,not many freshman make the field, as freshman. All these guys played special teams, if not mistaken. But if they don't develope,they won't be here!! See more of Perkins and Marcus,not so sure about Williams.
Not everyone develops into a stud player as a true freshman...give them some time to adjust to the college game.
I know but we just recruited over them - makes you wonder if they are in the plans as starters.
- Respect the Rivalry -
Do anything you can within the rules to ramp up the competition.....the best player will be that much better.
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Recruited over them? That is the strangest thing I have ever heard. We recruited some players last year so we shouldn't recruit anyone at that position this year. I am of the opinion that you should essentially recruit a new starting line up every year. That's 22 players multiplied by 4 you get 88 so you have to take one or two fewer players every year, but at least 3 will go pro early or transfer so even that would balance out to include room for punters, kickers, etc.
I suppose if they don't improve a couple of them will have a hard time seeing the field, but it isn't like we should expect Mitchell and Johnson to start on opening day next year.
Agree with your recruiting theory, but also think that 'recruiting over them' is exactly what we did here.
Seems like we brought in at least one player at nearly every position (sans K). Did we recruit over Hyde with EE or Vannett with Baugh? The coaches are trying to bring in talent across the board. I don't think two (three with Lewis) LB in a class is really that many. Is it?
We didn't recruit quarterback, for example, like we recruited LB.
Additionally, I don't here Zeke talking about starting next year like I do the LB recruits. Think someone didn't put that bug in their ear??
We basically put an ad in the USA Today: Wanted linebackers to start at otherwise strong football program.
Look we lost 3 of our top 4 linebackers and at this point we have little experience to fill 2 of the positions. Everyone has a shot, but there is a reason Meyer recruited the guys we are talking about (he thought they could take those spots). With those spots open right now they aren't promised to anyone, so of course Johnson and Mitchell could start, I just wouldn't expect it next season, especially not on day 1.
Actually, JT Barrett enrolled just a couple of days ago. That doesn't mean he is being recruited over Braxton. And I think the staff has been emphasizing that the best players are going to see the field ever since they got here. Players like Johnson and Mitchell who want to see the field early are going to listen and will have a chance to play, just like the guys from last year's class.
Barrett knows that he will wait his turn until B Miller graduates. PERIOD.
Mitchell and Johnson think they have a legit shot at starting. How did they get that idea when Barrett KNOWS he will wait???
P.S. In the unlikely event that both Mitchell and Johnson pop and become phenoms, we can say goodbye to the 4 hot LBs in the class of 2014. That's the way it works at all the barbecues except maybe 'Bama and USC.
I disagree that if Mitchell and Johnson start then we lose on the big name LBers. If anything it is even more of a sign that we need help (that we are forced to start freshmen). Also with Shazier possibly gone after next year there would be an open starting spot in their first year.
Edit: Even if Barrett "knows" he will wait (which I am not convinced is true if Braxton doesn't make progress in the passing game he could get passed up), part of that is he is injured and will likely redshirt this year. And since Barrett is a great player maybe we shouldn't recruit another QB this year. That is essentially what you are saying.
It's not only what I am saying, it's what the staff is indicating by its actions, see, e.g. Drew Barker. The redshirt was obviously contemplated even before the injury, and the commitment was accepted before the injury.
We will lose some of those 4 LBs if we have 2 starting freshman who play well
We're not offering Barker, at least anytime soon. Meyer is after Watson.
Also, speculating as fact about how 4 LBs will respond to committing to OSU before/after two freshmen take starting spots is silly, because you have no idea which of the 4 will actually come. It is a good guess that we'll get at least 2-3 who have really strong interest in OSU though.
That's how recruiting works. Every year we recruit "over" last year's recruits. If they get passed up by younger, more talented kids, then go get better, stick it out on the bench because you love the program, or transfer to a school where you're going to see the field. Get better or ride pine, that's what competition is all about.
That being said, I think we'll see a lot of growth from these guys by the spring game. True freshmen trying to adjust to the speed of the college game with simultaneously learning a brand new and complicated playbook by a defensive staff that didn't even have a coherent strategy until the middle of the season? It's no wonder the young guys didn't know which way was up. Let's see how things shake out by the season opener before we write these guys off for the latest batch of unproven recruits.
When told OSU set school record for 50+ games this year, UFM said "That's good. We're gonna break that next year."
Maybe it is just the term I don't like and I agree with the people above me. We don't recruit above (or below) in my mind, you just get new good players and the best ones will play. Next year will we say the same thing about Mitchell and Johnson if we get McMillan, Booker, and Garrett?
How do u figure we recruited over them? By signing two linebackers in this class? So what about the great linebacker class that they are after in '14? Are they recruited over Johnson and Mitchell? Every recruit is told that they will have an opportunity for playing time if they come in and perform well and that is no different than the situation that we have going on now. Come this summer if Mitchell or Johnson out-perform one of the '12 recruits then they will get an opportunity for playing time, if they don't then they will hopefully get a spot special teams.
Exactly right. If we get McMillan next year, he is much more highly touted than Mitchell or Johnson, so why did we even bother getting Mitchell or Johnson at that point? This is how college football works (and heck even the pros on occasion, see Russell Wilson and Matt Flynn). You bring in new guys to compete and because the older ones are going to be leaving in a couple years regardless of how much they play.
We didn't recruit over them, we recruited depth at a position of need. Generally, when you graduate two starters from a position, you recruit players to fill those spots.
recruited over them?
Is this your first BBQ?
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I got this from the official site:
Games Played Tackles
Cam Williams 10 3
David Perkins 9 6 (and 1 pass defended)
Jamal Marcus 11 8
So each of them got a little experience on the field. Hopefully it is just the beginning for these guys.
Wow, did not know they contributed thats much!! Thanks for sharing.
Mostly on special teams but yes they contributed quite a bit. Marcus was a beast on kickoff. I always saw him near the ball.
They have just as much of a chance to play as Mitchell and Trey. Urbans job is to get the best players to Columbus year in and year out. They will all compete in the fall and the best will play. Competition is good. Depth is good.
This. You can bet the competition will be fierce for the two open LB positions.
By recruiting over them I meant that we braugth in players who we are counting on to play early. We dont have a MLB and Mitchell was braught in to play early.
All players are brought in to play. If any of the sophomores are better then Mitchell they they will play. There are no promises. Urbans about winning. I guarantee you Urban didn't promise Mike anything other then a opportunity to compete.
I think you are confusing players that "we" as in the fans are expecting to play early. There is nothing to tell us that Urban already has Mitchell and Johnson penciled in.
here is a great example. When Urban came last year, he brought in what is probably one of the best talent at Dline anyone could have gotten. Even myself predicted at the very least Spence would start with Simon and Hankins. What happened? Simon and Hankins started but so did seniors Nate Williams and Gerrett Goebel.
just because a possible better talent comes in as a freshmen doesn't mean he is more ready to play than a slightly lesser talented junior or sophomore.
I think you are confusing talent with readiness to play. They don't always go hand in hand. Cam, Perry, Marcus and Perk already know the playbook and have gone through this. There is no guarantee Mitchell and Johnson, nor other freshmen, are ready to deal with 1. Marotti, 2. college, 3. better competition, 4. rules and regs.
can't forget about the possibilities of failure, grades, outside influences, injury and other stuff. We all like these incoming freshmen but who knows who is starting next year. for all we know Curtis Grant could put it all together and become an all-american MLB.
Well said. The best players will see the field. All the players will compete and it is up to the coaches to decide who will start.
Mitchell is actually an OLB. He may make the transition if he grasps the spot but he is an OLB. Trey Johnson is a MLB.
The main scouting sites agree with you. Anyone who knows OSU or the recruits personally flips them to Mitchell as MLB and Johnson as OLB (WILL in particular, I believe).
We have to remember that injury plagued us last year. Zach Boren proves we need depth. And Mitchell or Johnson could play or start, Meyer said best players play so they all have the chance
Wherever you are, there you be!
Injuries HELPED us in the LB corps last year. Without Klein's injury there would be no Boren. The problem with LB was not depth so much as there was no one ready to play.
Mitchell and Johnson were brought in to compete for early playing time, just as everyone else whom Urban and his staff bring in. They want guys who are ready to make an impact on the field from the moment they step onto campus.
This is the big difference in philosophy between Meyer and Tressel. Tressel was more prone to believe in the development of his current players, and essentially recruit for depth, but mostly for a year or two down the line. Meyer wants to bring in the best players possible, no matter if that means they take playing time away from a loyal senior/junior who has paid his dues and expects to get his "turn." There are no "turns" with Urban Meyer - only the best of the best earning time on the field.
"What we do in life echoes in eternity"
They must be terrible. Busts. You mean to tell me that without a full offseason to workout, diet poperly, learn the playnook they weren't all americans last year?! Fickell definitely can't develop players.
RELAX. this is their first full offseason. Expect to see a big jump this year, with an even bigger one the following year. Why do people expect freshman to be world beaters? I would be SHOCKED if Mitchell or Johnson came in (in JUNE) and got significant time at LB right off the bat (in AUGUST). Special teams is likely where their impact will be felt.
They went undefeated.
Only Big Kat came in and started as a freshman and made an imediate impact. Most of our greatest players started on special teams and then rode some pine in hopes of releiving a starter for a rest or during a blowout. The New York Giants lost 4 starting D-backs on their run to the Superbowl. Depth is paramount to a successful team and the good ones know that and will wait their turn for that shot of greatness...even if it is just for one year.
RDS started as a freshman and made an impact.
Not to the level of Kat, but I was impressed.
but not the first game of the season. RDS starting mid season.
EXACTLY!!! Katz is the only defensive freshman to start the very first game of the season. not even Spence and Washington (both rated much higher than Mitchell and Johnson are) and they didn't even start right off the bat.
plus if anything, early this past year Spence and Washington and others did get opportunity despite not starting. There will be plenty of chances for all, as long as the earn it.
Mitchell and Johnson haven't even graduated high school yet, it's way too early to predict how good they will or won't be at the next level. Mitchell was brought in to play early, but so was Cam Williams. The linebacker position at this level is extremely difficult for a freshman to come in and play from day one, especially in the middle. If Mitchell or Johnson were enrolling early and going through winter workouts/spring practice, then maybe I could see them on the field. But to come in June and expect to be the starting MLB at Ohio State from day one is a big reach.
I think a point needs to be made here. We talk about freshman linebackers starting "here" at "OSU" the temple of conservative football thought until last January.
Shouldn't we be talking about freshman linebackers starting for Urban?
Without doing too much digging Jalani Jenkens started for Urban as a freshman at UF and went pro this year.
How come I haven't heard anyone talk about Se'von Pittman, did something happen to him?
Tough times never last, tough people do
He was hurt and he plays on the line I believe.
Curtis Grant (top 5 player coming out of high school) doesn’t start over Shazier (top 150 player coming out of high school). What I’m getting at is rankings don’t mean anything. Players develop differently and at a different pace. If rankings were so important, Hawk, Laurinitis (spelling?), M.Jenkins, Roby, Hankins and I’m sure many more stud wouldn’t have ever saw the field. The players that work the hardest, understand the playbook the best, and develop the fastest will see the field. It’s not based on what 247, Scout, or Rivals thinks.
>> What I’m getting at is rankings don’t mean anything
This is a false statement. I think you mean "What I’m getting at is rankings don’t mean everything".
I will take a bunch of 4 and 5 star players and we can play your 1 and 2 star players and we'll see what happens.
Okay. and I'll have Urban Meyer coach my 1 and 2 star players and you can coach your 4 and 5 star players and we'll see what happens. :)
but yes, stars do mean something just not everything. Plus take it a step further, I will take a player that has been there than a player that hasn't. its not all just talent but experience too.
The difference between 3 and 5 stars is not that great. It maybe just an exposure issue (small school no camps) or maybe they started football late or didn't get good coaching in high school. But once they get on the college campus everyone starts over there isn't 5 stars or 3 stars they are all freshman and have the same chance to play or not
I've used this example before, but it bears repeating: even Jadeveon Clowney didn't play as much as he could have during his freshman year due to inexperience/lack of familiarity with playbook and he was a flat-out monster this year. Playing true freshmen at any position really only works when they're surrounded by experience and with only RDS returning as a proven starter, I would be surprised if we don't see Grant and Perry beside him with Williams, Perkins, and Marcus competing for a starting spot and PT. Then, the following year when RDS is probably gone, we would have two starters back with experienced underclassmen. Have to believe that's the formula that Meyer desires.
Perkins is FAST
If he gets "IT" he could be hard to beat at OLB IMO.
Williams is a nice ILB or OLB and Marcus could be a Leo
Our LBers if they can DEVELOP do not look as bad as some think I believe they will be MUCH better than this year's squad and Boren balled out this year.
If you are STAR GAZERS this list of LBers would get you wet.
Curtis Grant 5 * OLB/MLB
Conner Crowell 3* MLB
Ryan Shazier needs no explanation STUD
Josh Perry 4* OLB
Luke Roberts 3* MLB
David Perkins 4* OLB
Cam Williams 4* OLB/MLB
Jamal Marcus 3 or 4* depending on site OLB/DE
Tyquan Lewis 4* DE/OLB
Trey Johnson 4* OLB/MLB
Mike Mitchel 4 or 5* MLB/OLB
There is 11 guys for THREE SPOTS and one spot is secured with Shazier.
You have 10 guys battling it out for TWO SPOTS MLB and OLB and we can say 3 spots if we throw LEO in there as one of these guys could play it.
Mike Mitchell MLB
Curtis Grant or Josh Perry OLB
those are the starters I am thinking on. Grant may play better on the outside than MLB and I think Mitchell's reaction time and speed in the middle could be what this team needs.
You're going to see all three of these guys...just bc of Mitchell and Johnson committing this year (and Ty Lewis/Vipor) means very little as far as the 2012 recruits playing next year. They will see the field for sure...Ty Lewis, M. Mitchell and TJ will see the field on Sp.Teams as well as here and there for some LB reps when/if we're up big. The LBs are fine now...we have talent...no reason to worry about these three above. I think Mike, TJ and Ty will see the field as starters in some compacity if others struggle (C Grant J Perry and the other 3).
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."
"I love football. I think it is most wonderful game in world and I despise to lose."
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edit: TRB has to retract this statement because his memory is fuzzy.
Help is on the way.
I think the LBers and Dline will be much improved... The experience gained from last year should really help Washington, Spence, and Schutt. Bennet will also be a beast. His injuries really slowed him last year. I expect RDS to be an All American next year. This will only help the underclassmen see what the LB is supposed to be played like in college. I think the LB position group will suprise, just like the Oline did last year..
IF recruiting was perfect no player would be a starter until his junior year.
Geeez what a topic. It's college football. New competition brought in every year
Is the premise of this thread that you recruit your starters and then don't recruit anymore until you need more starters? Basically banking on guys to work out and no compete for their starting jobs?
That's how I read it.
I'll give him a chance to clarify... If I understand him correctly... I would say the biggest misunderstanding on his part is that the best programs have multiple starting caliber players at most positions fighting for playing time. Each recruit is told they could start right away if they beat out their competition. If I get the top QBS in the nation this year, I still want the top QBS next year to push each other or increase my chances of top notch talent. You say I can have an AJ McCarren and I'll tell you I still will recruit this year for a Tim Tebew to push or beat him out.
Meyer's success is built on open competition, not getting 2-3 guys and waiting 2-3 years to worry about it again. He'll recruit 4 top LBs this year, and he'll do it again next year, and th year after that.
I cant name many freshman linebackers that started at relevent programs this year. With linebackers there is definitley a big learning curve when you get to Bigtime program. A handful of kids get on the field towards the end of the year like Shazier did last year and Bolden for Michigan this year.
I wouldnt worry, theres enough talent and Urban will have it figured out by August.
It is a GOOD problem to have, a ton of young talented hungry players wanting to earn the two spots open. COMPETITION BREEDS CHAMPIONS always has and always will.
Anytime players are handed their spot instead of competing for them, they lose focus and do not sweat the small stuff...
Competition is what it is all about and Meyer knows this. You push and push until someone either breaks or takes that next step to greatness.
Not only is it a "nice problem to have," it is required to be a great football team and dominate like an Alabama. Seems as if the last step OSU needed under the very good Tressel era was a bit more depth and competition.
Agreed. Fans think they know more than they do. There are so many things that could happen. Injuries, transfers, early graduations, position changes, behavior issues & suspensions. Why on Earth would anyone assume two freshman are gonna walk in and start for four straight years over guys with college experience?
Greatness comes from depth and depth results in competition. Urban and Co can not predict the future, so all they can do is get as much insurance as possible with recruiting the best talent. But the GOOD news for Buckeye fans is that whoever does start this year will have gone through the gauntlet in Spring and camp to get there! (So they have to be pretty good!)
Yeah big Kat was the only one who started at LB as a freshman....
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