I've thought that Louisville is an interesting school, especially looked at through the lens of expansion. They're headed to the ACC, but do you expect them to stick with that? After watching them beat Florida, the thought crossed my mind. Basically, here's the way I see it: Their basketball program is historically very good. They've got passionate fans, and success to back it up. I don't think they've ever been much of a threat in football, but that could be changing, as we saw against Florida. Obviously football is where the real money is, and will probably be the main factor in any decision. By moving into more of a football-driven league (a la b1g, or sec), they *probably* improve their recruiting, and that could be the bump they needed to step up into consistent success. That said, would they be an attractive target for conferences in monetary terms? I don't really think of Louisville as having a nationwide network of rabid fans to entice television networks.
I'm just looking for some thoughts from all of you folks; would you want Louisville in the B1G? Would you be dissapointed/happy/neutral if they went to the SEC? Do you think that this whole thing is pointless because they're going to the ACC?
Hope this isn't a repeat forum topic, I browsed through a little, but couldn't find anything related.
I'm with you. I've always thought Louisville would be a great addition to the B1G. Win/Win. Solid football, great basketball, top-notch facilities, and a good geographical fit as well. I wouldn't mind going to away games in the 'Ville.
As far as athletics goes, Louisville would be a great addition. However, we all know they won't ever be considered by the B1G; UL is not an AAU member and won't bring in research dollars like other targets, Kentucky isn't as large a state as GA, VA, or NC, and their academic reputation would easily be at the bottom of the conference.
"Attack the Strong, Trample the Weak, Hurdle the Dead!"
-Former OSU S&C Coach Lichter
Spot on...AAU is very important to the B1G.
Jim Tressel vs. Rich Rod = Urban Meyer vs. Brady Hoke
I don't know about easily at the bottom of the conference when it comes to academics and research. They are one of the fastest growing research universities and pushing really hard to supplant UK. There are some major things going on at UofL and they soon will be sought after by many conference the way they are going.
Not to mention, any other Universities in the nation that has been to a final four and a BCS game this year? OSU would have been the other one but Kentucky and Kansas are not even close to be a football program. Also, once Louisville gets into the ACC, they will instantly be the top earning athletics programs, more than FSU and UNC.
but at the same time, they aren't quite there for the B1G academically and that means alot. But it would be wise to keep an eye on them in the future. Fast growing, great location for the conference. They are looking for attractive than Cinncinnati but not quite as much as ND.
that^^^ not a very good school
I'm not even sure that Louisville is the most dominant school in their state (UK) across the board. It would be tough to justify on grounds other than this years football performance, and their basketball performance.
If either of those 2 sports lost their big name coach, I'm not sure they could stop a slide back into mediocrity.
It's an interesting thought, though. Props to the OP for thinking outside the box in terms of possible conference expansion teams.
the basketball program is big enough to land any coach they want. Plus they have the Yum Center and a heck of a program. Football can become small potatoes with a bad coach, learned that after Petrino. but they can get there.
Lets see, final four, BCS game, tops in swimming, women's field hockey, women's basketball. They were in the men's soccer final 2 years ago.
The program is a top earning athletic program, top 20 last year. Probably be in the top 10 this year with the FF and BCS.
its not the programs that is why big ten isn't goin after them. Probably the most attractive program in the area behind ND.
Add Louisville, and Missouri, then end the expansion nonsense.
"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.
mizzou wont leave sec until they have realized how much they have failed in this move..........................which could be any day now.
I dont know karate but i do know crazy and i'm not afraid to use it.
&
Well they would be in the BigTen already if Jim Delany had invited them.
If they do leave you know the headline will be "SEC too tough for Mizzou, runs to easier B1G".
"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.
Lousville adds nothing for the BIG but they get a much better chance at competing with us for recruits...no thanks.
D. Anthony
This. Same goes for Pitt.
"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes
THE Ohio State University
I don't mean to rain on your parade, but you can pretty much rule out many schools because of their academic standing. I am not trying to dis Louisville, but they are ranked 160 among schools in the country. The lowest ranked B1G school is Nebraska at 101. And, UL is not a member of the AAU (even though Nebraska is not one now, they were when they were added to the B1G).
You can pretty much predict who the B1G is approaching by looking at the Universities ranked in the top 125 and members of the AAU (Notre Dame is not in the AAU but they are highly ranked - it is their religious philosophy that keeps them from joining the AAU). I seriously doubt that they would bring in any school outside those standards.
We should never discount the academic standing of a University for consideration to the B1G. That's just the way it is. The current members (school admins) don't want any part of lowering academic standards across the league.
AAU.
i wish people would stop throwing in schools that aren't AAU.
The AAU brings billions in research dollars to B1G schools. That is more money than football brings. More. Money. Than. Football. Brings.
if a school isn't AAU, it isn't coming to the B1G.
Yet the school they expanded too first is no longer AAU and Notre Dame isn't either. Now that they have a school that isn't AAU in the conference they don't have to keep that standard.
But, they are not going to take a school ranked 160.
I'm not saying they would, just that the AAU drum gets beat a little too loudly. They ultimate target isn't an AAU school.
I agree with you, however the latest rumors about expansion are about 2 schools who are AAU members - Virginia and GA Tech. Notre Dame has also been an exception to the AAU thing because their ideology will not allow them to join the AAU, but they are a highly ranked University. I think because of that, other highly ranked Universities could also be considered, but membership in the AAU certainly helps.
if AAU is not a criterion, then UL is probably nowhere near the top choices for expansion. delany would probably want to swallow up the big 12 (oklahoma, ok state, texas etc) and/or the acc.
Not to sound boring and dry (ok, this sounds boring and dry, ehh, please read this using a Ben Stein voice) Nebraska lost AAU status mainly over disputes as to research dollars the university receives from the hospital and ag department. The way the hospital associated with the university is set up-they technically are considered separate from the university. So AAU now no longer includes those monies as U of Nebraska research $$. We all know the kind of grant money the Wexner Medical Center, the James Cancer Center and Solove Institute bring in these days. Take those away, ouch!
AAU policy also does not include research funded by the Agriculture Dept. Nebraska, being a land grant university in a state where agriculture is huge, has behemoth ag grants and research projects, but AAU no longer recognizes them as part of their research funding requirements.
Delany has repeatedly stressed the importance of AAU membership.
You're totally correct, though apparently they were--by the AAU's metrics--lagging behind the rest of the pack in terms of academic standing. It seems like they knew the writing was on the wall. That said, they're still a good school; just an outlier in an admittedly overachieving group.
Pretty sure that Nebraska's chancellor mentioned that, had Nebraska been booted from the AAU prior to their formal invitation to the Big Ten, there was no way that they'd have been allowed to join. I think that Delaney echoed the same sentiment. Here's his full quote:
The only non-AAU member that the Big Ten is going to allow is Notre Dame, their academic standing is beyond reproach.
Real talk!
"I'm One Bad Buckeye, and I approve this message."
Louisville has many hurdles blocking it from the B1G. It's not AAU It's not as good academically and we all know that, but on top of that it does nothing to expand the B1G footprint. You aren't adding a market. Kentucky just doesn't add much, and 2 of the major population centers in Kentucky NKY region and Louisville border B1G country. I get the BTN in my area. Hell I had it in NKY when people in Columbus had no access to the network.
It doesn't really put the B1G in a region of the country that is a major growth area like Virginia or North Carolina too. That's an important characteristic to the Big 10 and BTN too. Those aspects could be forgiven if it's a major program like Nebraska or Notre Dame, the advertising money those schools would bring would be huge.
I really like Louisville. I really respect their athletic programs. The basketball program is arguably a top 10 all time program. They have a ton of wins, 2 titles, like 7 appearances in final fours. They aren't going to be a program that goes into mediocrity for long. They'll always compete. The football, meh, hard to say how good they really were last year and how good they'll be going forward. They lost a couple crappy games, then they beat up Florida, but I'm just not convinced they were elite. Strong will eventually leave, who knows who they'll replace him with. They would add value from a sports perspective, but that's really all they'd bring to the table, a couple strong programs.
Let's be honest. Academics and Athletics play a huge part. But Delany already showed his hand. It's about TV markets. And I am pretty certain Louisville is not the target audience that will boost B1G market values & tv revenues.
I think every university with an athletic program should join the Big Ten. That way, we can end all of the talk about expansion; with are no other possibilities to join. We can have 128 divisions, each with an "East" and a "West." And we can use the Oxford English Dictionary to find words beginning with the letter "L" for all of the divisions. And the conference championship would be a huge deal, because the winner would go to a bowl game where they would win by default. That would be sweet.
I agree. We added Rutgers and Maryland. Just wondering when Delany & Co. is going to send out the invite to Marshall? They change conferences more than any other team. They might be interested.
After that, I think an offer to the Little Sisters of the Poor would be wise. It might pull in the senior and female viewership around the country. I imagine all of the seniors in the nursing homes would be signing up for BTN. Its all about the Benjamin's.
"Here officer, hold my beer while I find my license."
I don't.
University of North Carolina and Georgia Tech. It is all about money and I believe those two bring the most to the table.
Louisvilles Stadium only seats about 45000 and rarely sales out.
New Rule...no schools from Confederate States.
D. Anthony
Why? North Carolina and Virginia are two of the fastest growing states in the US with several quality schools/athletic programs. Adding schools fromt those two states = money, recruits, and better competition (win, win and win). If you can't get over something that happened 152 years ago, you have problems.
I agree North Carolina and Virginia would be fantastic adds. I'm not so sold on Ga Tech though.
Buckeye till I'm dead
Maryland would have been a confederate state if not for Lincoln.
"Attack the Strong, Trample the Weak, Hurdle the Dead!"
-Former OSU S&C Coach Lichter
KY wasn't a confederate state, FWIW
/Duff'd It
The Confeserate thing was a joke... and Kentucky was a slave state that never joined the Confederacy but they did have that shadow Confederate Government and we represented on the flag.
D. Anthony
The correct thing to say is they were neither a Union nor a Confederate state, but a Border state like Maryland was.
/Duff'd It
Really? You mean my 3rd grade teacher,
Mrs. HanesMrs. Bradley, was lying to me?update: after some thought, Mrs. Hanes was my 1st grade teacher. Mrs. Bradley was my 3rd grade teacher. Big difference. Mrs. Hanes was hot.
"Here officer, hold my beer while I find my license."
Syracuse would be a great add. Powerhouse basketball and a football team that just whooped up on West Virginia. They have good academics and were an AAU member until 2011 when they voluntarily left because of differing opinions on how to use money. You make them agree to be an AAU member again within 5-7 years and you would have a university in a contiguous state.
Buckeye till I'm dead
Syracuse and NDame or BC and NDame.
Maintains some degree of geographic and academic integrity.
We got Gamble and Brewster without having to move the 'footprint', and with U Meyer, have no need to admit schools with no historic or geographic relation to the Big 10.
Could be interesting?!?
"There is a force that makes us all brothers, no one goes his way alone, all that we send into the life of others comes back into our own." -WWH
The better question is, what do they give us? I get that they're more within the Big Ten's "traditional footprint", but when looking for a propective new member, all Emperor Delaney is concerned with is what their media market can deliver. Even if we disregard the obligatory "AAU" lens (which the member institutions' presidents won't do, by the way), Louisville's media market nets the BTN a whopping 670,880 households; not exactly delivering us an Earth-shattering market, nor is it really breaking new ground for us, territory-wise. It's also worth mentioning that Louisville's market is also about 100,000 less tv households than the combined markets of Omaha and Lincoln, Nebraska; UN's addition also opened up new territory for our conference, something that Louisville can't offer.
Per Nielson's estimations (which I used for Louisville and Nebraska's media market projections), the addition of Georgia Tech would provide the BTN it's largest monetary windfall, as Atlanta contains an estimated 2,326,840 tv homes--a number that would provide a substantial amount of coin to the BTN's coffers, provided that the BTN could be shoehorned into Atlanta's media market (Georgia Tech plays a vast second fiddle to UGA there--though it's incredibly unrealistic to believe that coverage wouldn't be provided in GT's main media market). Remember, it's not about how much you capitalize the viewership (i.e. ratings) it's about how well you can integrate yourself into the market's television providers--this would be a good time to remember that the BTN's partner in crime is Fox.
After GT, the next best bet would be to secure UNC--which would be, admittely, a massive bitch since many doubt that they'd turn their backs on Duke and NC State. UNC could probably get the BTN into both the Raleigh-Durham and Charlotte markets, securing almost 2,287,000 tv homes in the process. While it wouldn't necessarily dig the conference's foothold into a talent-rich region like planting the flag in Georgia would, it would further solidify our presence on the Atlantic Coast, and bring in a top-three-all-time basketball powerhouse. Granted, pending NCAA violations don't exactly cast the school in a flattering light, but they're certainly more than worthy.
UVA is certainly the least attractive bet of the three. Maryland has virtually wrapped up the DC market's 2,359,160 households, and the addition of the Richmond and "Tidewater" markets only nets about 1.1 million viewers--which is far and away the least of the three "candidate" schools, but still almost doubles Louisville's market. This move makes the most geographic sense, though--and again further aligns ourselves on the East Coast. This is probably the most likely domino to fall, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Va Tech bolt for the SEC when it happens.
It's also worth mentioning that any/all of these aforementioned moves destabilizes the ACC--which also happens to be Notre Dame's new "home". In a perfect world, I see Delaney poaching the aforementioned three schools, causing a drastic re-negotiation (and subsequent devaluation) of the ACC's television contract, and basically forcing Notre Dame's hand in moving to the conference they snubbed back in '94 and again in '99; capping the Big Ten's expansion at 18 teams just in time for the nine-game conference schedule.
I like GT best of these possibilities, but keep hearing that Delaney wants his alma mater.
Question re 9 game conference schedule: would the 9th game then be some form of protected crossover? If so, there is the potential for uneven schedules (I say we get Minnesota every year) as well as bad, manufactured 'rivalries'. The Big couldn't even make MSU-PSU relevant despite that they were the cream of the leftover crossovers.
Market not worth it... Next...
Answering a question with a question . . .
Q: What do you think of Louisville to the Big Ten?
A: What do you think about the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge asking Johnny Lydon (aka Johnny Rotten) to be the godfather of their first child?
Louie not AAU and not going to be.
Go to 20 by adding...
UConn: Not AAU but can get there easily
Syracuse: Was AAU and can be again easily.
Virginia
NC
Ga Tech
Duke or Pitt
To hell with ND
I agree ND can go away and join Conference USA
Syracuse: awesome get
Virginia and Ga Tech: already a done deal
Duke and UNC: I would take both of these teams and you could have the two biggest rivalries in college in the same conference.
Pitt and UConn: Not going to happen. They don't bring in new markets and Pitt is going to get vetoed by Penn State
Buckeye till I'm dead
Penn State needs to keep their mouth shut or they'll get the boot.
Who do you like for #6?
Dream get would be Florida State but the most likely option is Boston College
Buckeye till I'm dead
I don't believe BC is an AAU member. Would it be easy for them to qualify? Good market but I wonder about culture issues.
Well with the Big 12 looking very stable and the SEC being the SEC i dont think we will be able to get Missouri, Kansas, or Texas so the number of AAU schools is pretty much slim to none so I think we would have to take a look at smart but non-AAU schools.
Buckeye till I'm dead
I think we also would veto Pitt. We have spent the last 100 years snubbing Pitt and Louisville, and there's no way we are going to concede that they have equivalent academics/sports/tradition as tOSU
Pitt is a bit close to our recruiting grounds.
I don't think about it.
Im holding out for Chicago to be invited back in
Hahahaha they would have the best football team in illinois
Buckeye till I'm dead
I'm a student at Georgia Tech and although I would love to see the buckeyes play here so I don't have to drive 9 hours to see them, I just don't think it is a real cultural fit.
I'd like to see the BIG go back to 12 (which won't happen) or go to 20
UVA
UNC
GT
Notre Dame (I despise them too but there is no way Delaney would say no)
Texas & Kansas
or
BC & Duke
probably will never happen but I think Texas is the only school worth it to make the jump to 16, 18, or even 20 teams
Assuming the jump is to a 16-team conference, I would add:
Notre Dame. Hate if you want, but the $, reputation, and academics speak for themselves.
Georgia Tech. Any part of the Atlanta market will do, since it's such a large market.
And as a wildcard if one of the above is not open to joining:
Rutgers - further penetrate the East Coast market. Decent sports teams.
Just my $0.02 worth.
Rutgers is already moving to the B1G..
You're correct about Rutgers.
I must be typing too fast for my brain today. Meant Syracuse. I can't correct my previous post since comments have been added.
Little late to the party but i agree with your other points. Notre Dame is a great university but they don't have to remind us every 5 seconds
Buckeye till I'm dead