I read on Buckeye Nation on ESPN that Snodgrass is postponed his announcement because he felt like was really rushing things. He also said that he wants to get recruited by Georgia and USC because he likes the way they use their receivers.
I hope we don't miss out on him and I'm not saying the sky is falling, just giving an update.
"really rushing things" must be what the kids are calling "my grades are bad" these days.
Have you personally seen his report card?
no he hasn't. he's just making a generalized and derogatory statement about a 17 year old kid he doesn't know.
I know. I was just trying to get a point across.
So you are condemning I-8's speculation based on his experience as to these type of announcement delays?
I would appreciate if you would curb the censorship sentiment on a site where I (and others) go to see which way the wind is blowing.
Yes... I'm saying unless he has seen Snodgrass' report card or heard it from Snodgrass himself then he doesn't need to make assumptions about a 17 year old kid's intelligence.
Firstly, don't mistake grades with intelligence. Secondly, it's been fairly well documented that Snodgrass ran into academic issues with staff at ND, and insiders seem to have good reason to believe that the same thing may have happened at Ohio State.
If you took offense to anything I said, you sure have a strange way of being the bigger person, but there's the rationale, take it as you will.
@ GOLDENBEARBUCKEYE
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So you are condemning I-8's speculation based on his experience as to these type of announcement delays?
I would appreciate if you would curb the censorship sentiment on a site where I (and others) go to see which way the wind is blowing.
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you desire noncesorship of another's sentiments, so you recieve unmolested speculation of facts. However, it is all well, that your ability to censor a poster's sentiments be allowed. I found that
That's a sophisticated catch, but arresting a guy who is shooting libertarians at the polling station is not the same as shooting libertarians who come to the polling station.
Saying he has bad grades, when he's known to have had academic issues, is not derogatory. Agree 100% @Golden.
And I appreciate that the sentiment is not to criticize kids, but if the butt-hurt feeling Nazis have their way, this site will consist of nothing beyond "hurray, we signed a 138 lb 2-star OL" and "Oh, the staff knows more than you could ever hope to know .... trust in Coach Meyer"
A downvote from another staff groupie. Downvoted me when I criticized the offensive line class from 2 years ago also!
GoldenBear: Up to this point, it was a good (albeit contentious and downvote-happy) discussion, but then you manage to run two logical fallacies together - a bait & switch and a strawman argument - all in the space of about 40 words.
Bait & switch: No one said not to criticize kids, but if there was some sort of moratorium (bad idea!) on criticizing or speculating on the classroom behavior, character, or other non-football aspects of recruits, that would be a totally separate issue from fans criticizing talent evaluation decisions.
Strawman: fans like me trust in Urbz to evaluate talent better than we can, and have way more information at their disposals than we do, but at the end of the day the coaches' players must produce on the field up to Ohio State's very high standards. So, no, if they recruit a bunch of Gomer Pyles to play OG, and the Gomers get steamrolled, the trust goes out the window. Until that happens, though, I'll trust that Urbz and company would get stuck with far fewer Gomer Pyles than if you or I were doing the talent evals.
Btw, I was just fine with I8's comment because it was supported by reports - he wasn't just wildly speculating, but making light of news on Snodgrass. And I also agree with you that we need to vigilant against those who would allow concerns about sensitivities crowd out all the fun and humor around here. But then say THAT, rather than create strawmen.
You are right that it looks like a straw man argument if read in the isolation of this thread. And looking at it now, I see your point. I'll also tell you though, that the "coaches know more and this particular coach is a world master/football master/psychology master/strategy master, etc." have been a pet peeve since I started commenting on this site, so my 'straw man' was more of a continuation than a random tangent. And though I thik U Meyer is a great coach, let's be realistic in agreeing that the same "they know best" argument existed with many fans before Urban Meyer was even a candidate to coach here, and to go to a more dangerous place, that it does not look like (for example) the linebacking corps was well prepared last year, and that it appears to be a mess going forward.
GoldenBear: thanks for the thoughtful reply.
Let me clarify: the most relevant context for "they know better" is the recruiting context. Obviously, the coaches and recruiting coordinators know much more than we do about the kids' personal lives, injury histories, school/disciplinary records, preferences, personalities, educational & career goals, where their girlfriends are going to school, how warm their parents are to traveling to certain schools, and on and on. That's without question.
I also know that most coaches, not just Urbz, are 1000 times better at evaluating h.s. talent than I am. Yes, they mistakes, but unexpected shit also happens. The Buckeyes' LBs corps might still be working itself out of a "mess," as you suggest, but that began as a personnel shortage. Well, that shortage developed under the direction of a former staff that had previously churned out NFL LB prospects like it was a LB farm. It wasn't like they all of a sudden forgot how to evaluate h.s. LBs, teach them, game plan, etc. By all means, we can criticize the results of their 2009 - 2011 LB recruiting, but that doesn't mean we would have been able to advise them better before-the-fact.
College coaches are about 50 times better at evaluating current players' technical performances than I am. That's partly because I didn't play the game for long. As a cfb junkie, I do feel that I have very good sense for the "bigger picture" aspects of the game - game flow, general strategy, handicapping games as gambling propositions, etc. But I would suck at evaluating a kid's technique, physical potential, hips, etc. As a big picture guy, instead I'd ask you what team didn't have at least one below par unit this season (e.g., Ohio State's LB at times)? Alabama? Again, it's fine to criticize, I just try to keep things in perspective.
Most coaches also know much better than me when it comes to gameplanning concepts and play schemes, too, but the margin is not as great. I'm much better equipped to critique in-game coaching performance than I'd ever be at critiquing recruiting decisions.
Here's where we all become experts, though: we are all supremely well qualified to critique coaching that leads to longer-term trends of substandard results, which speak for themselves. At Ohio State, a very high level of results are demanded - without much slack. I'm never going to say that the "coaches know better" if an Ohio State coach goes something like 30-20 over four seasons. I'll want the AD to fire the bum. Not because I know better, but because - unlike even the most brilliant coaches - there is one "critic" that is always right - the final standings.
Not to blow any smoke up your butt, but your response said everything I should have said and you said it better than I even had thunk it.
I agree that they know SO MUCH MORE than I do on evaluation and the process, and that they seem to be good administrator/managers of the process. But I still see occasional suggestions from the fans that seem pretty good, and see decisions made by the coaches that don't seem to be good.
GoldenBear: thanks for the compliment. I've enjoyed the back-and-forth. No doubt, even the best staffs will make mistakes, probably lots of mistakes. And speculating on recruiting and making guesses/predictions concerning where a staff might be going wrong is a fun exercise for many die-hard fans. And I don't begrudge that. Actually, since Urbz came aboard, I've paid much more attention to recruiting myself.
It's just that subjects like the limits of knowledge, data problems, complexity, the value (or non-value) of expertise in particular contexts, etc., happen to be a big part of what I do away from football, so I'm constantly jumping into discussions with the lede of "I/we don't know . . ." It's probably really annoying to readers, but I guess I have this compulsion to let others know how ignorant I am.
Get a room you two!
Honestly have enjoyed this banter, well handled on both accounts and thoughtful too. These initial disagreements all too often spiral downward into banal insults.
But unless you're a coach on the college level or above, that statement is implied to be true based on inferred expertise and professional credentials. I'm not saying you should just drink the koolaid, but when it comes to treating diseases we go to doctors, when it comes to putting out fires we have firemen, enforcing the law we have police, research there are scientists, electricity we have electricians etc. etc. etc. All I'm saying is that if a guy evaluates, coaches and develops football player talent for a living maybe we should relax with the criticism knowing that we can't do better and in this particular case it appears that few others could do as good of a job, but that's all based on rankings that don't always hold.
You're probably right, but no, I can't relax.
Godwin's law.
Nazi's! what do fascist /socialist have to do with a forum.
Wherever you are, there you be!
Nazis are a good example of a movement that censored criticism of the central governing authority. It is a shorthand method of describing the behavior of posters who denigrate all opinions they deem critical of authority.
I think he is just saying that because he's not allowed to commit yet. he can't say urban is making me wait
To be fair, Snodgrass's recruitment has been pretty eventful for a junior and Alex suggested that his delaying his announcement (which he has done now several times) is, in fact, academically related.
That said, it is moving pretty fast as he's over a year away from having to make a decision. I hope he gets his grades up (if that's the issue) so that he'll have choices to make. Sounds similar to Gibson, who many will remember wanted to commit as far back as last spring/summer.
There definitley were rumors that acedimaically some things need to be cleared up. The bigger story was that both ND and OSU with the undefeated regular seasons were seeing strong interest from some higher ranked/ touted recievers. Keep in mind that we are in the hunt for a lot of out of state guys A. Scott, T. Thompson, D. Kitt, J. Malone, J. Brown and in state M. Lattimore, D.Kief.
i think snodgrass is rated higher than kief is he not?
mark may wins douchebag of the year... again
Yes by most sites that I've seen.
And tsun seems to think that kief is already leaning towards them
They thought Treadwell was leaning towards them, too.
And McQuay
And Levenberry
Kief is leaning towards them.
Why would someone down vote me here? I personally know him, and we played AAU ball together....
I don't know much about Kief but he goes to a school that was a rival of the high school I attended. It also happens to be the same high school that produced Devier Posey. I'll have to get to the Elder vs. Lasalle game this year and see what he looks like.
I think Urban is more worried about locking up some nationally renowned wide receivers first though.
That sounds like the name of one of Harry Potter's professors.
Class of 2010
In my opinion, nothing stated above in any post warranted a downvote. I guess conversation and the occasional sarcasm or attempt at humor is not that big a deal. I am 45 years old and a Gulf War vet(1st one) so maybe i am just past all this.
Go Bucks !
In my opinion, everything stated above in your post is 100% right.
The world is full of kings & queens who'll blind your eyes & steal your dreams - it's heaven & hell - Ronnie James Dio.
I wonder if the staff told him to hold off from committing if he was indeed going to choose tOSU... with the limited scholarships next year and the potential to land better WRs, maybe they told him to wait... otherwise he may just want to take more time and evaluate all of his options before deciding.
Still think Snodgrass wants to be a buckeye, there is a good belief that he is upset he wasnt allowed to committ. As I noted earlier there are bigger fish that Urban is in strong contention for. Sounds like according to 247 that he will be asked to camp this summer and will be re-evaluated at that time.
damn I thought I was gonna get some info on Thad Snodgrass when I clicked on this!! Shit!
Yeah not what I was expecting when I opened it up! Moving on...
When Snodgrass listed his top 5 at the UA combine, it didn't include us.
Got a link for this?
($) http://recruiting.scout.com/2/1257209.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
Quote of interest -
"I have a top five of Penn State, Notre Dame, Michigan State, Wisconsin and Nebraska," Snodgrass stated.
http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/ncfrecruiting/southeast/post/_/id/14087/...
from that link, he didn't list a top 5. he said he delayed his decision because he wasn't ready to announce.
Also added he will be at Notre Dame's junior day, and then visit Penn State and Michigan State, would like to hear from Georgia and SC because he likes their offenses.
That was the only update I could find on him from espn, which all over the UA game.