This is a topic which some people love and some people hate. I am facinated by it though I wish we could keep the B1G the way it is right now (sans Leaders & Legends). For those who don't pay attention to this stuff, here is an article from yesterday that does a pretty good job of noting the million and 1 rumors out there right now regarding expansion. If you don't feel like clicking the link, pertinent B1G data is as follows: speculation is increasing saying that B1G will offer Virginia this week and possibly GT or UNC.
http://www.offtackleempire.com/2013/1/20/3897940/big-ten-expansion-realignment-acc-sec-big-12
It's fun to think and talk about, but that author cites exactly zero credible sources. He admits that the entire discussion is driven by conjecture and hearsay at this ppoint. I'm not going to get too spun up about anything until we see something credible from a more reputable source.
Nevertheless, thank you for sharing. Expansion will definitely give us something to talk about during this arduously long off season!
I could link various twitter accounts but I question their validity too. However, people from all over the message board world and twitter are all saying that VA to B1G is imminent. This means 1 of 2 things, either 1) we have a large echo chamber where people are repeating the same bad info over and over and using the bad info provided by source B to corroborate the bad info they got from source A or 2) where there is smoke there is fire.
I originally heard this from bloggers and twitter sources coming out of WV. As they are known to throw a lot of garbage out there to see if anything sticks, I didn't post this until some other people began to say that their sources were saying the same thing.
"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes
THE Ohio State University
20 teams seems pretty crazy. The new Big Ten logo could be "B20/2"
"Attack the Strong, Trample the Weak, Hurdle the Dead!"
-Former OSU S&C Coach Lichter
Or how about B1GX2 ?
Edit: Sorry Buckeytrapped, just saw your response below.
I would love to see UVA added. They are a phenomenal public university, an AAU member, in a large/growing state with lots of recruiting depth and have a strong athletic program. Mike London is doing great things with their football program and will have them competing at a relatively high level in the near future.
"Attack the Strong, Trample the Weak, Hurdle the Dead!"
-Former OSU S&C Coach Lichter
The B1G2.
That would be 100 schools it is more like B1Gx2
Jim Tressel vs. Rich Rod = Urban Meyer vs. Brady Hoke
Or B1G(2)
Or B1G*2
Or B1GB1G
I kinda like the sound of that last one...
You can kill a fly with your slipper or a cannon. Either way, the fly dies. -Ramzy
The Huge?
"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes
THE Ohio State University
Dammit, my (+) button stuck...last one should have been B1G+B1G.
You can kill a fly with your slipper or a cannon. Either way, the fly dies. -Ramzy
I love when writers do "news" stories about internet-circulated rumors. Rumor-based stories are fine if your source for said rumor is someone in Jim Delaney's office, his chauffer, a kid on his street... But when your sources are other sports-related message boards, well...
Now if this turns out to be true, I'm going to look like a damn genius, right?
Can someone explain to me the appeal of an all AAU-member conference? Thanks. (Not being sarcastic btw)
Our conference isn't an academic joke.. In fact, it's kind of an academic powerhouse. That's really helpful when graduates are looking for jobs and pursuing graduate school opportunities.
Outside of Florida, Vanderbilt, and now Texas A&M, many jokes can be made about the academics of SEC member schools.
(Not sure who downvoted you. Upvote to compensate.)
Class of 2008
I agree with you in general, but you left off Georgia, ranked 63rd best national university in the latest US News rankings (whatever those are worth) vs Texas A&M at 65. Btw, Alabama is 77, Missouri is 97.
For comparison, our own Purdue is also at 65, Minnesota is 68, Iowa is 72nd, Indiana is 83, and Nebraska pulls up at 101. Ohio State is 56, not much better than Georgia (with overall scores, not ranks, of 59 vs 57).
So, some decent schools in the SEC beyond Vandy, Florida, & TA&M, though overall not as strong as the Big Ten.
(Of course, the Big Ten presidents are likely more concerned about graduate research dollars than undergraduate education reputation)
You hit the nail on the head when it comes to the importance of research dollars. I don't think most Universities take much stock in the US News rankings these days, preferring instead to rely on average ACT/SAT scores and stats of the incoming class as a barometer of how selective they are, which I'm guessing provides a stark contrast between the "average" B1G and SEC school.
At the end of the day, the AAU thing is all about the research power of the member institutions.
It's important because it's important to the Presidents of the B1G member-schools, and at the end of the day they are the power behind Jim Delaney's throne. Behind the atheltic prowess of the B1G, the conference is an academic and research consortium, and the Presidents are not going to let someone into the "club" that can't pull their weight in the classroom and in the lab.
The on-field product will take care of itself, in a sense, but it's much, much harder to take an Alabama (academically) and turn it into a Northwestern or a M*ch*g*n.
Delaney had to meet with Michigan's President immediately after allowing Maryland/Rutgers into the conference. All the B1G schools are members of the CIC (Committee of Cooperation), as well as the University of Chicago (who was an original B1G member). Being in the CIC is a big deal, it is an academic counterpart of the athletic programs.
http://www.cic.net/Home/AboutCIC/CicHistory.aspx
FWIW, there is NO WAY Nebraska would've gotten into the B1G without being an AAU school, which they are no longer a member of.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_American_Universities
Help is on the way.
Kudos, Bum, for layin' the learn-on...
"The revolution will be televised."
Help is on the way.
Help is on the way.
It should also be noted that the research dollars that the schools in the CIC bring in are in the Billions which greatly exceeds the revenue that sports brings in.
We tend to look at everything through the football and television deal lense when it comes to all of this conference realignment, but could you imagine B1G basketball after adding Dook and UNC?
The two most heated and storied rivalries in all of American sports (sorry Yankees and Red Sox) would exist right here in the Big Ten.
Time and change will surely show how firm they friendship... O-HI-O.
That indeed would be sweet, but I don't see Delaney annexing both schools - it will be one or the other (my money's on UNC rather than Duke) because the demographic and TV implications don't make it conducive to take two teams in the same geography.
In other words, the chances of adding two conference members in the same state, as we have in Michigan, Indiana and Illinois, won't be repeated, because once you've added the N. Carolina television markets, adding the second school adds nothing new in terms of TV revenue, in essence splitting the same amount of pie among more hungry mouths.
Plus the fact Delaney went to UNC.
I agree with that in principal. Right now all of the moves have been for particular markets and brands. The next 2 moves I feel will be for the same reason. But if the B1G goes to 20 teams, as the article suggests, would adding a Duke be that big of a problem? With 6 additional teams, that creates a pathway for Duke to be in the equation but that is the only way that I think that happens.
We'd have potential markets in Richmond, VA, Charlotte, NC, and/or Atlanta, GA. Adding FSU (which I don't think would happen) would also give us Florida. At that point, I don't see us gaining any other significant market. So allowing Duke to be apart of it shouldn't be that big of a deal as we would be where we want to be.
I don't see FSU happening, and I'm not sold that we'll go all the way to 20 teams, because the obvious expansion targets, for me, are more difficult to pinpoint or pick up past 18 members.
My prediction is that Delaney picks up Virginia, North Carolina and Georgia Tech, and then raids the Big 12 for Kansas, or perhaps tries to pluck Mizzou out of the SEC. HUGE caveat: The Big 12's Grant of Rights is a big challenge, though not insurmountable, and Mizzou would have a huge payout to the SEC if they tried to bolt so soon after joining up.
For more on the analysis behind that prediction, see this. Hodge and I had a nice back and forth in which I agreed Texas may replace ND as the "white whale" Jim Delany would love to reel in. He may have to pick off Kansas to do so.
I do not think the SEC has an exit fee. Not one that I can find any information about.
From all the sources I have read, the Big 12 is FSU's 3rd choice after 1) SEC 2) B1G.
Apparently FSU has reached out to the B1G with a plan to reach AAU status in 5 to 7 years and Delaney is interested but skeptical. Originally, it was thought that they had no chance, but, they have helped their case. Now it is up to the eggheads in the B1G to be convinced.
"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes
THE Ohio State University
There is no way the school Presidents will approve a non-AAU school.
Help is on the way.
I completely agree with both of you. I don't think they should or will go after Duke. UNC is the prize pig in my opinion. Dukes fan base isn't as large, and they definitely don't have the same draw as UNC. I lived in Raleigh and traveled much of the state for my job for over a year and found quickly that UNC is THE team in the state. There are a fair amount of NC State, Wake Forest and Duke alums that love their teams and are loud about it but the state as a whole leans baby blue by a pretty wide margin. I watched the Duke / Butler title game a few years back at a sports bar in Raleigh. If I didn't know better I'd have thought I was watching it in Indianapolis. 95% of the state HATES Duke, and I don't think they bring much to the table ouside of good academics and a great bball program
That being said, Delaney NEEDS the state of North Carolina, geographically speaking, to have more leverage with the cable companies. Nabbing contiguous states is one of hte biggest factors in Delaneys plan to lock up the eastern seaboard. If UNC won't come aboard without Duke, they may have to do some cost / benefit analysis and consider bringing them into the fold.
Time and change will surely show how firm they friendship... O-HI-O.
For what it's worth, NC State is pushing for AAU membership, and I would take them over UNC in a heartbeat. They have an actual loyal fanbase, they care about football, basketball and baseball, while Carolina only has a basketball following. The student body is larger than UNC's as well. Also adding UNC would be like adding a (Southern) Michigan, their fans are unbearable and the majority of them are bandwagoners. Again, that's all based on if NC State gets AAU membership.
fwiw, i think playing fsu every year in football would be sweet
I like football
I heard rumors that Plainfield Teachers College made the list also.
An angry fan...rooting for an angry team...led by angry coaches
Although I respect UVA and UNC, part of me will be really disappointed that we didn't make more of a splash from a football standpoint. Maryland, Rutgers, UVA and UNC are all middle of the road football programs. Sure, they have good years, but they also have down years as well. I just can't get too excited about them when there was a lot of buzz about Notre Dame or Texas in the past.
I really wish Syracuse hadn't lost their AAU status 2 years ago. They would've been a great addition. Hopefully once they realize the ACC is gone they will work towards AAU status again and join the B1G.
Buckeye till I'm dead
Man, the author of that article is a moron. So I've been told. :)
One thing people need to remember about when Nebraska joined the B1G, is that they went from being one of the better schools academically in the Big12 to being the worst academic school in the B1G.
Help is on the way.
The lynchpin to all of this is UNC. Both the B1G and the SEC want them. The fans, by and large want SEC, the faculty and BoT want B1G. Both of their first choice is a stable ACC. All the talk is that UNC doesn't want to kill the conference and will only leave after it becomes apparent that the ACC is no longer viable. As UVA is a big rival of theirs and Maryland, a lesser rival (MD cares more than they do), it might be enough to get them to pull the trigger.
The hitch is that the B1G is less interested in Duke. Its one of the bball blue bloods and having them would keep intact a great sports rivalry. Sure they can schedule OOC but not having a conference championship on the line will weaken the significance of the rivalry. Duke is a highly ranked and very reputable academic institution. Its problem is that it is too small. Word is that the SEC is very willing to add Duke to get UNC. So the question is, is it worth it to the B1G to take Duke to get UNC? If they miss out, their next best option for the state is NC State who is not AAU. The thought is is that if the SEC blocks the B1G's advance into North Carolina, it might stop their march southward, expanding into SEC territory. If UNC goes B1G, the gates open to grab GT (if they haven't already jumped and possibly FSU.
While Texas was at one time a target, word is that they have told the B1G, "no". The prevailing thought is that after we add a few more teams, and potentially add ND, we go back to Texas one more time to see if they are willing to jump. That said, I put Texas in the pipe dream category.
"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes
THE Ohio State University
At a certain point there is a threshold at which regional TV coverage will no longer matter. A 20 team B1G that contained certain powerhouses may be too big to not be included in basic cable packages.
A B1G that included:
ND
FSU
TEXAS
Would have so many important matchups, and be so national in scope that adding Duke would only boast ratings and make it even more valuable.
Perhaps the most important team for these purposes is ND. It sure would be nice to beat up on ND every year.
FSU to B1G would be a great move for both institutions. FSU is in a near dead heat academically and athletically with Florida. Aligning itself with B1G would give it a boost. Can you imagine the ratings of FSU v tOSU or TTUN? It would be making a statement that it is committed to academics.
Texas may be a pipe dream but it fits the B1G mold in every way. It is steeped in tradition, has an elite football program, decent basketball program, and an elite academic institution. Further, it would ensure the TV market for the country's most populated state and help open up recruiting in that football crazy state.
Wikipedia disagrees with you.
Haha you know, I meant to change that to "one of" or look it up but forgot. Good catch.
I disagree. To put something on basic cable you need to have the product be so necessary that customers would drop their subscription if it were not available. I almost dropped Dish when It was going to make me miss a Buckeye football game because of its fight the the BTN.
If the SEC added Texas, ND, and USC that would not make it necessary to enough local customers to warrent a SEC network be placed on Columbus basic cable.
the whole thing reminds me of the financial crisis where we realized that the Sandy Weill model of the biggest bank over the most services just didn't work.
I long for the days of just 10 Midwestern schools with similar backgrounds and commitment to athletic AND academic excellence.
from the swamps of Jersey
I wouldn't mind Ga Tech. Only about 3 hours from where I live so I could make that trip every other year. It wouldn't give us any football credibility tho. Ga Tech isn't that good.
Here's an interesting site to think about when talking about where fans are located. http://www.commoncensus.org/sports_hotspot.php?sport=5
When looking at expansion its interesting to see what teams the locals actually follow. This is especially interesting for North Carolina which has been referenced several times in this thread.
Click on some of the retirement areas like Phoenix and parts of Florida. OSU shows up pretty near the top.