Via Scout 2010 Rankings... a couple of our lowly 3 star recruits:
CB 44 Bradley Roby (3 stars)
(Peachtree Ridge HS)
Suwanee, GA 6-0/180/4.34 01/13/2010
DT 48 Johnathan Hankins (3 stars)
(Southeastern HS)
Detroit, MI 6-3/315 01/05/2010
There are lots of 3 star players that end up being great. Wasn't Hawk a 3 star? I'm sure a compiled list would grow very quickly, not just with Ohio State, but all across the country.
Yes, Hawk was a 3 star as well... I did a list last year from some friends of our 3 star guys. I'll try to find and post it.
D. Anthony
As was Lauranitis, T Smith, Jenkins. Depending on which recruiting database you use, we've had quite a few 3 star players turn out to be great.
Sanzenbacher was a 3* also. He had a pretty good career with OSU(personally think we don't beat Arkansas without several of his key plays) and is currently with the Bengals.
"Political correctness is tyranny with manners." Charlton Heston(1924-2008)
T Smith was a 4-star.
Yeah, Hawk was a 3-star recruit as well. 3-star recruits aren't anything to be ashamed. They are very capable of playing at a high level on upper tier D-1 schools. More often than not, it's a matter of them not getting a ton of press or committing to a school early and not doing the camp circuits to increase their ranking. While they're nice measurements, it's best to take star rankings with a little pessimism.
Unfortunately this does not transpose well with yelp reviews.
I'm pretty sure we've had plenty of 4/5-star players who ended up being great as well. With that said, we're still getting plenty of 3-star players who have the potential to develop into great players.
Ultimately, I care more about our staff's evaluations than the rankings on recruiting sites.
Sure we have plenty of 4/5's that pan out...but it's pretty cool that the best NFL talent on an undefeated team were 3 star guys.
D. Anthony
Laurenitis 3 stars
Gholston 3 stars
Chimdi Chekwa 2 stars
D. Anthony
There's a reason Chekwa was 2 stars! He sucked! Every single time we got called for pass interference, guess who it was....CHEKWA! He absolutely NEVER turned his head to the ball when the ball was in flight! The guy was horrible!
I thought the same thing, but he was better than Travis Howard and also WAY better than Dominic Clarke and way way way better than O Johnson
Just throwing it out there but a guy that was drafted in the 4th round of the NFL draft is most definitely NOT horrible
Just throwing this out there but Tony Mandarich, Ryan Leaf and JaMarcus Russel were all drafted in the 1ST ROUND! Whats your point?
All of those guys had fantastic college careers. It doesn't always translate to the NFL, it does not make any of them horrible
That wasn't my point at all! You said Chekwa was drafted in the 4th round and thus saying that makes him not horrible! So I said that those other guys were drafted in the 1st round and WERE horrible in their pro careers. No they weren't horrible in their college careers but the did have horrible pro careers! You can not deny that! No college doesn't correlate to the pro's....ah hell, nevermind. The fact is, if you watched Chekwa play, you'll see that he had the most pass interference calls of any corner we had during his years with Ohio State. That is a fact! Thus making him the worst corner we had and thus making him horrible. Let the Chekwa fans down vote me all they want but the one's that watched him closely will agree with me that he absolutely never turned his head back to the ball when it was in flight! He got away with that quite a few times actually!
I watched him play, I can remember him getting some PI's and not always turning his head but I just have trouble with the idea of calling a guy that was an all-american according to both FWAA and College football news "horrible". Can that many people be so wrong?
He didn't get away with anything. In college, the defender does not have to play the ball.
You obviously don't know the rule. YES the defender does have to turn his head to the ball when the ball is in flight and making contact with the offensive player. otherwise it is a pass interference call! Look it up!
Well of course he has to be looking for the ball IF he makes contact, lol. He would get pass interference if making illegal contact even if he is looking at the ball...
i thought you were inferring that it is a penalty for the player to face guard.
Nah, I think we were both on different pages. Sorry man. I wasn't trying to rude to you Murph!
thanks mr kiper
I dont know karate but i do know crazy and i'm not afraid to use it.
&
Gholston should have been 5 star college and 1/2 star NFL (but he got paid)
D. Anthony
Nothing new, but we really don't have that many 3 star players. Take a look at the Boise state 2 and 3 stars, wow.
Notable OSU 3 stars
2009
Z. Boren
Jordan Hall
2008
Travis Howard
2007
None
2006
Chimdi Chekwa (2 *)
2005
James Laurinaitus
Malcolm Jenkins
Brian Robiske (2*)
2004
Vernon Gholston
Joe Bauserman (2*) --- oh wait
2003
Kirk Barton
Todd Boeckman
Ashton Youboty
2002
AJ Hawk
Doug Datish
Nick Mangold (Not Ranked!)
I'm pretty sure Bauserman's 2 stars were actually revoked after last year.
Bauserman's 2 stars were for baseball.....lol Baserbombs.....lol
I maintain that the harshest penalty the NCAA could've handed down to Ohio State short of the death penalty would have been giving Bauserman another year of eligibility
Now thats funny! Up vote to you!
But think of all the injuries to the hot dog guy in the sixth row!
The whole star thing is so funny to me. Rankings don't matter, but yet they do matter. They aren't the end all, be all. We all want the best players to want to come to OSU. And we discuss recruting rankings and how OSu's classes compare with other schools. But most of us would not be too happy if OSU signed mostly 3 star guys in a given class because it's expected that OSU competes and lands 4 and 5 star kids. When a 5 star kid doesn't pan out, we generally have an excuse or two for it. But then when a 3 star type guy makes an impact and does well, we praise the staff(s) for being geniuses, finding a diamond in the rough, and developing talent.
I agree and that's why it's fun!
EXACTLY!
AGREE.
The 3 star thing is like when people point to the multimillionaire who never went to college. The better bet is the guy who went to Wharton for his MBA
I have an acquaintance close to my family that is a small business owner that made well over a million $ in revenue last year. He just has a high school diploma from an inner city high school. And I'm quite certain that he's wealthier than my family doctor or my lawyer. I'm sure this is more often the exception than the norm though.
"Political correctness is tyranny with manners." Charlton Heston(1924-2008)
I don't really care about stars; if UFM wants someone, that matters most.
"Attack the Strong, Trample the Weak, Hurdle the Dead!"
-Former OSU S&C Coach Lichter
While I agree with you, if Urban started bringing in a majority of 3 stars, everyone would go apeshit.
I can agree with that, I think it's important to bring in those 3 star players that you take on as "projects" and try to turn them into something special.
Just a life long Buckeye fan wanting to talk to other lifelong Buckeye fans. Our honor defend, we will fight to the end for OOO HIIII OOOOOO!
The thing is, though, while you can easily disprove a high correlation between high star rating and high performance, people make the mistake of assuming that this is proof for a correlation in the other direction. Which there isn't
I got jacobs n sprinkle being the the super 3 stars out ofthis class
O'Deez330
stark county football
Tracy Sprinkle is going to be another great 3 star along with Darron Lee and Taivon Jacobs.
"if irony were made of strawberries, we' d all be drinking a lot of smoothies right now."
I really like the way Lee looks on film.
Pretty sure Johnny Manziel was a 3-star kid.
vacuuming sucks
True - 22nd ranked qb
System QB... just like Case Keenum, but no one wants to recognize that. Still a stud though.
Don't give up... Don't ever give up.
I get a kick out of watching him outrun defenders! Like that one game against Alabama, he ran completly around the guy in a circle! It was hilarious!
Yes, Roby & Hankins...Hawk, and there were many more. Flies in the face of the notion when people say that Tressel couldn't recruit.
"You win with people." - Woody Hayes
I think the lesson here is that a good coach has to be an evaluator of talent. All the recruiting agencies simply look at a kid's numbers.
I know it's cliche, but you can't measure the size of a kid's heart and desire to succeed. That is why a kid like one of my favorite all time Buckeyes, Dane Sanzenbacher, surprises so many when he is successful.
As a matter of fact, I remember all of the whining and bitching that Tressel "wasted a scholly" on Sanzenbacher. I don't remember a lot at my age, like what I had for dinner last night, but I remember the disrespect Dane got from many Buckeye fans before he stepped on campus, very distinctly. And I can remember the words from almost any Van Halen song from three decades ago. Weird.
"Political correctness is tyranny with manners." Charlton Heston(1924-2008)
Spot on. The star system is just as flawed as evaluating NFL draft prospects. Succeeding in big time football is so dependent on coaching, hard work, and good timing. It's just a way to keep us interested and to get us excited.w
The problem with the star ratings is kind of the debate we've had all season about Timmons. The kid will go somewhere and be very good and people will say HOW WAS HE A 3 STAR?????? I remember when Floyd went to go play for God and Urban at Florida, while people were bummed the response seemed to be, that's alright we have Hankins already. That was the typical "We didn't need him anyway response", it seemed to be pretty well known that Hankins was going to be a very good ball player. He was overweight, that was the big question mark about him. If he were 10-20lbs lighter he may have been a 5 star.
It's just impossible to know what's going to happen with every kid. SOME guys play way above expectations, some below, some right there. They do the best they can by judging the kids' physical attributes and how they have played against their competition and in camps if they have that info. They have no way of rating or quantifying work ethic, desire, and intangibles that make a lot of the names mentioned on that 3 star list so good.
if the staff wants a kid im all for it... but, at the same time bama who is the team to beat right now routinely pulls all four and 5 star kids... so i do put stock in it. imo a lot of it depends on your coaching staffs ability to get kids ready ask 1 mack brown
mark may wins douchebag of the year... again
Yep. If Meyer and Co. fall in love with a guy, then he's a must get in their eyes for a reason. Sprinkle and Jacobs come to mind-by all accounts, middle of the run guys but someone sees something in them and I'd bet they have fine careers at OSU.
4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off
talent and how they fit offense/defense> # of stars a website gives them
I'd rather have all 5 star kids. Yes a few guys fly under the radar but not the majority. I'm sure there were higher ranked guys who we missed out on that we're better. In the end, you can't get all 5 star guys so you HOPE for diamonds in the rough. Glad we found the ones we did!
Way more 4 and 5 stars end up panning out than 2 and 3 stars....of course there are cases we can talk about every year but the numbers don't lie
Oh come on now, don't let facts get in the way Alex!
For every rule, there is an exception. Some 3 stars end up being studs, and some 5 stars end up being busts. But the MAJORITY of 5 stars are way better in college than the 3 stars. It's science.
"She blinded me with SCIENCE!" -->Thomas Dolby.
That is what happened to Brent Musberger and Kirk Herbstriet last night when they got a look at AJ McCarron's girlfriend.
"Political correctness is tyranny with manners." Charlton Heston(1924-2008)
Everyone understands that normally the 5 star guys are going to be the better kids...again, it's just cool to see the top 2 defenders who will both eventually round 1 picks were the 3 star guys.
D. Anthony
"The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong. But that is the way to bet." --Damon Runyan
2012 Heisman Trophy Winner Johnny Manziel
http://rivals.yahoo.com/tamu/football/recruiting/player-Johnny-Manziel-8...
3 Stars
/EndThread
2013 heisman trophy winner Braxton Miller
4 stars
/thread continues
247 has him as a 4 star another reason they are a better recruiting site than rivals. http://247sports.com/Player/Johnny-Manziel-7025?pi=16223
Rivals will list Johnny football as a 3 star and Shane Morris as a 5 star this is why they are terrible
Ok, you take all the 3star kids and I take all the 5 star kids and we can play each other next year. Who do you think wins?
Well lets see... How did USC do against Georgia Tech.
I love how silly these arguments are. We have the teams with the highest ranking classes continually winning lots of games and titles... Then a few handful of teams pulling it together once and a while with lower rated classes and suddenly it is the rule. geez guys, come on... Put urban as coach of USC and that team destroys college football.
This^^^
Heart and Soul aren't measureables.
I dont mind 3 stars and the most important part is whether UFM wants them. He did offer Hank a UF scholly if I remember correctly. What I dont want to see is us taking 3 stars late after we have offered 4 and 5 star kids at the same position and struck out and most especially if its a position of need and those were in-state strike outs. If we can handle that then we will do what UFM does and thats win all fronts.
A related topic could be about 4 and 5 Star fizzles & busts (not due to injury).
Started.
Just more proof that the star ratings mean dick in the grand scheme of things. A HS overall talent can't be measured by stars from ppl who may or may not know how to spot "good" talent. Not to mention...they can develop into what Roby and Big Hank did. The star ratings are not an exact science for sure.
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."
"I love football. I think it is most wonderful game in world and I despise to lose."
Woody Hayes 1913 - 1987
The star ratings are meaningful but it's not an all-or none type proposition. Nothing is guranteed. Rather I approach them as a percentage. A 5 star has a greater likelihood of being an all-american than a 3 star, thats fact.
It's similar to the concept in medicine where a particular treatment may only work 10% of the time. Meaning 9/10 times it fails when you look at a big population. But for the person that it DOES work that percentage is meaningless. From an individual standpoint it is yes or no. For that 1 in 10 person, the treatment worked, 100% of the way, not 10% of the way. Same idea for the stars, there are GREAT players that were not heralded out of high school but they are more exceptions than rules
Also worth considering is the fact that there are many more 3 stars than 5 star players. Say there are 10 five star high school players in a class and 5 of them go on to be all americans and 5 don't. Say in the same class there are 300 three star guys and 10 of them go on to be all americans. People will say "There are twice as many all americans that were 3 star guys coming out of high schools as there are 5 star guys" but the truth is that 5/10 five stars (50%) are all americans whereas 10/300 (3.33%) of 3 stars are all american. The three stars have it by volume but coming out of high school the 5 star guy was more likely to be an all american
Ed Reed was a 2 star who only had an offer from Tulane and only went on to become the second best defensive player in NFL history.
4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off
Who is the best?
Deon? Green?
Ronnie Lott, LT, Charles Woodson, Dick Butkis, Jack Lambert, Mike Singletary, Dieon Sanders....
For my money its Ray Lewis. I know he's wildly unpopular especially around these parts but the fact is, NFL defenses don't always allow for a Middle Linebacker to be anything but a tackling machine and seldom can an MLB be the guy who takes over a game but Lewis was without a doubt the most dominant player I've ever seen. Only player n NFL history with 40 sacks\30 ints. 19 Forced Fumbles and 19 Recovered. He had his hands in 50 plus turnovers as a middle linebacker.
He's far and away the best linebacker ever-the only close second I'm able to think of is Brian Urlacher. Let me elaborate there too. Urlacher and Lewis didn't revolutionize the MLB spot because no one will be able to duplicate what those two did from an athletic and scheme standpoint. Lewis was a turnover machine while Urlacher played in a system that required him to cover FORTY yards of turf in the Tampa 2. LT is the next closest but was a rush end and would fall under the umbrella of great pass rushers. If LT had a weakness it was against the run-teams that ran at him neutralized him. You could not get away from Lewis or Urlacher no matter where you were on the field. Both guys changed games with huge, impact plays and had the speed and know how to turn bad decisions into game ending plays.
Dick Butkus couldn't play LB in today's NFL, simple as that. Charles Woodson is an interesting name as he really made the shift from shut down corner to game altering defensive back when his coverage skills slipped a little with age.
Again, I know Ray is an unpopular dude but if you look at a 17 year body of work, no one comes close. Urlacher is a distant second and in my opinion the drop off at LB is immense. As for Reed, Turnovers and intelligence. That's my measuring stick. I'm more than open to debate this here as I love hearing other people's opinions on the tall timber of the NFL, I just ask you Brown\Bengals\Steelers fans to set aside your bias against Ray if you want to discuss with me.
4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off
Becuase some 3 star players work out does not mean all 3 star players work out. Because some 5 star players are busts does not mean all 5 star players are worthless. The exceptions to the rule should not define the rule. There's hundreds of other 3-star recruits across the country that turn out to be just that; three star caliber players that will not play in the NFL. Hundreds of players that play at mid-major colleges and none of us have or ever will hear of. The recruiting rankings don't mean everything but they also don't mean dick as many are suggesting.
This argument can be simplified to this simple statement. On average, if two teams have competent coaching, a team filled with 5 stars will win matchups against a team filled with 3 stars a lot more often.
As much as I hate to say it, look at Alabama. They get studs in recruiting year in and year out for the last 6 or 7 years and obviously have much more talent than other teams when they put them on the field. Stars don't guarantee anything, but they definitely are a good guesstimate on potential.
Don't give up... Don't ever give up.
Big Daddy Dan Wilkinson... don't know what kind of star rating they had on him but he was considered a big project and redshirted mainly due to a major weight problem. Some thought he'd never make it or play at OSU. Lost weight and started dominating in the spring... Ended up a #1 overall NFL pick when he came out. A kid like this would be hard to rate as a high schooler because it can easily go the other way for a guy way over 300lbs at 16-17
D. Anthony