Heard this today. Gotta really be missing something (reacting or reading) for us to move a 5-star MLB out of a position of dire need. You have to think we have a lock on Mitchell and Johnson. If one of those two can't step in and play as a true freshman, who steps in? Could Perkins, Williams, or Perry move in?
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He will stay at MLB and start next August. Got to have faith!
If he moves to DE I think he will get lost on the depth chart; there's so much young talent on the line. I hope he makes it at MLB personally. *If* he doesn't, I wouldn't be surprised to see a transfer but I hope not. He was my favorite recruit we got that year other than Braxton personally.
Champions Bleed Scarlet & Gray
Where did you hear this?
Buckeye till I'm dead
Link? Link? Link?
LandGrantHolyLand did an article suggesting this move back in mid-October:
I've also heard Beau Bishop on The Fan radio 97.1 in Columbus say as much also.
Supposedly, Bishop interviewed Jim Heacock Grant's freshman year and Coach Heacock was pretty much resigned to moving Grant to DE so that he would not have "think" as much.
“Right now, Michigan is not at the pinnacle of college football, and that’s all Urban Meyer cares about...He’s been there and knows what it takes to get there.”
Can't believe this one. Was the projected starter at the beginning of the year. As thin as we are at linebacker, it doesn't make since for Fickle to give up on the kid now. I think he plays in the middle next year.
An angry fan...rooting for an angry team...led by angry coaches
First thought was "grant's transferring to Delaware?" Anyway, hope he can step up at Mike. We don't really need him at DE.
Heard it from a friend of mine that gets insider info, and is usually right. Someone also posted it on Bucknuts. Not sure why this is so hard to believe. We moved a guy that hadn't played LB in 4 years since HS and couldn't sniff the field when Klein and Sabino were injured.
This was on scout earlier, so it could have legs
Why should we listen to Jim Heacock after a full season of evaluatiing C. Grant with the current staff? If I'm not mistaken, Urban Meyer kicked our ass in the National Championship game and he is considered a good judge of talent. We are stacked at DE and don't need Grant there. If we do, UFM will let us know.
I don't think it's as simple as being stacked at DE.
Obviously Urban did not have much faith in him at LB this past season, but a move to DE may allow someone like, Joey Bosa to move inside to DT, or even Evan Spence or CJ Barnett to make a possible move LB.
Plus there is already talk of Tyquan Lewis switching from DE to the Oustide Linebacker/Viper role next year.
Personally, I would like to see Curtis Grant turn into a real 5-star player, but the position he does it at, I couldn't care less.
“Right now, Michigan is not at the pinnacle of college football, and that’s all Urban Meyer cares about...He’s been there and knows what it takes to get there.”
Not really sure if there's going to be room for Bosa at DT with Washington, Hill, Munger, Price, Pittman, and Schutt. I believe Bosa is intended to stay at DE.
Edit: hopefully Bosa's little brother is playing DT in a couple if years with the older Bosa at DE.
Munger or Price will likely move to offense, and one of Hill and Munger/Price will likely redshirt. Bosa is strongest at the point of attack, more than he is quick around the edge, so DT seems smart. Washington can go back to DE where he is effective.
With the number of players we lost from the d-line this year I don't see too many of the young guys redshirting.
I think we'll see at least one redshirt. We have Moore, Miller, Carter (if he continues progress), Spence, Washington, Pittman, Bennett, Bosa, Hill, Price/Munger, Schutt, possibly Chase Farris and Rashad Frazier. That's a rotation of 13. Let's assume that at least 2 of those guys don't pan out to crack the lineup this year.
That's still quite a few more guys than the ideal front rotation, which would be around 8 or 9, possibly less.
My amateur opinion is that we'll either see injuries that force the staff to burn redshirts, or we'll see at least one guy take one.
I'd say the redshirt will probably go to those guys who we have no idea who they are. I don't see redshirts going to the big name recruits unless its because of an injury.
I left out the people that basically get lost on the depth chart. Everyone on that list has either burned their redshirt, or is a strong candidate for play time.
it seems that Meyer will continue the trend of versatile stud D-linemen who can play both tackle and end like cam heyward, simon, bennett,washington, maybe Bosa too. Pittman IDK though, he seems like a straight end. I wouldn't mind at all seeing Curtis Grant bolstering an already strong defensive end unit, we'll find someone to man the MLB position.
"Get him a body bag, Yeah!"
I think you mean Noah Spence.
And Tyquan Lewis has always been scouted by the staff as an OLB so that wouldn't be a change in plans.
I agree that I wouldn't mind seeing Grant go to DE. He's really put a lot of bulk on his frame since his freshman year, and I've said before that I think he's too big to play OLB if he can't pick up MLB.
Good catch.
“Right now, Michigan is not at the pinnacle of college football, and that’s all Urban Meyer cares about...He’s been there and knows what it takes to get there.”
Actually, Lewis was recruited as a hybrid/viper type player, to start as a LB and grow into the stand up DE position.
The standup DE? Like what Nate Williams played in certain sets? That's basically what the viper is. Do you have a source you're pulling from?
I can see this happening, as Grant clearly has massive athleticism but seems lost once the game speeds up. If he can't figure out coverage, he'll be a liability. Let's at least get him on the field at the LEO.
"There is a force that makes us all brothers, no one goes his way alone." --Woody Hayes
Its not that we need him at DE. Its that he has great talent and they want to put him in a spot where he can excell on the field. Theres no point in trying to fit a square peg into a round hole for four years.
This idea actually isn't too bad. I think we will miss Nathan Williams speed and athleticism off of the end. If Grant could bring that type if game to the DE I'd be good with the move. I think one of the sophomores or Mitchell will be the Mike next year.
I won't be shocked if Grant moves to defensive end. I think his raw athleticism could be utilized very well here. His problem was grasping the mental part of the game, but at defensive end all he has to do is hear the snap and go get the quarterback.
Alex, thank you for agreeing with what I have been saying for a while now. Grant has all the talent and athleticism but he hasn't been able to grasp the football aspects of being a MLB. The staff has been discussing using him as a hybrid DE/LB next year and let him rush the QB, where he won't have to think as much. I personally think it's a great idea.
Alex, can I be a guest blogger sometime, because you and I think alike my friend.
I wouldn't be shocked by the move either, but I just wonder with the depth we have on the DL as to whether it would actually happen. We had solid LB's come last year and are expecting 2-3 more this year, but to expect a freshman LB to come in an be impactful all year is a tough wish to have come true.
With that being said, though, I do hope that we find a way to best utilize his athleticism in whatever way we can. If that means a move to DE, so be it. Let's just find a way to make sure out LB corps are secure at the same time.
It would kind of suck if he turned out to be a stud DE. So many wasted years.
"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.
Its going to happen so dont be surprised if/when Mitchell is starting MLB next year physically he is ready for it.
I will be totally shocked if a true freshmen can step in and start from day one for the Buckeyes. Does someone want to list all the ones that have done it in the history of tOSU?
An angry fan...rooting for an angry team...led by angry coaches
It's going to be a true sophomore or freshman. I don't think Grant is going to happen. I'd like to see Grant used like Nathan Williams.
There was this guy:
“Right now, Michigan is not at the pinnacle of college football, and that’s all Urban Meyer cares about...He’s been there and knows what it takes to get there.”
That's what kills me, he was a true freshman, who started and we know how good he was between the ears.
different system. not knocking katz but his frosh year that D was so good they just told him to go get ball which accounted for his big tackle for loss and sack #s. pass covg was not expected.
I dont know karate but i do know crazy and i'm not afraid to use it.
&
I played College football with a guy who was Westerville South's Free Safety (and FS at the college I attended until he got kicked off the football team). Big Kat wasn't smart folks...in HS or at OSU. However, he was one helluva hitter and Mike LB...for this...I can turn a blinds eye to the lack there of in-between his ears. I think Grant stays at Mike until the staff stops being patient with his lack of picking up schemes (then a move is possible).
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."
"I love football. I think it is most wonderful game in world and I despise to lose."
Woody Hayes 1913 - 1987
I think 2 years of not understanding schemes is long enough. If he hasn't won the starting spot by spring ball I'd be glad to see the staff move him to DE. I undervalued Nate Williams most of the season until I watched the Illinois game for a 2nd time. He was so quick off of the end and caused havoc for opposing o-lines and QB's. If Curtis Grant can play like that then move him.
Agreed man on all accounts...said the same thing when I saw Nate at the Miami of Ohio game and Illinois game as well. He helped get after the QB and made it difficult for them to throw. I could also see Grant doing this as an OLB...the only problem is...there's a lot of OLB (Perkins, Perry, Williams and others) that I feel may be even faster than Grant. So DE is probably a better spot...and just use him as a pass rusher.
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."
"I love football. I think it is most wonderful game in world and I despise to lose."
Woody Hayes 1913 - 1987
grant was physically ready too. these kids have to have it between the ears.
I dont know karate but i do know crazy and i'm not afraid to use it.
&
Mitchell has it between the ears on top of having the instincts and better athleticism than Grant.
The knock on.mitchell is his instincts
O'Deez330
stark county football
Dont know where you read that but his stat line this past season of 180+ tackles would beg to differ.
247 n scouts reports. he's the best athlete on field. He runs down plays from behind but isn't in right spot immediately. I guy with his physical ability n testing numbers would be a concensus 5* if he had the instincts to match. Urb n fick will teach him tho.
O'Deez330
stark county football
You can see it in his tape, and it's been pointed out by a few analysts. At the high school level, a MLB doesn't have to read the field in the same way as at the next level, in order to be successful. Mitchell did was a lot of guys do in HS, which is just blow up the backfield or just be quicker and stronger than other people to make plays. He's definitely a beast, but it remains to be seen whether he can pick up the MLB decision yet. I believe he can, but since he has yet to prove it concretely, I won't be surprised if he moves outside. There are even some analysts that speculate that his frame is one that would be best lined up at a hybrid (viper) role, or with one hand permanently on the ground.
Haha this thanks. We posted responses abt same time lol
O'Deez330
stark county football
grant had big #s too. and blew the doors off running all the drills. hes missing something so far. hope mitchell says yes and has "it"
I dont know karate but i do know crazy and i'm not afraid to use it.
&
I am excited about maybe getting Mitchell. He has special athletic skills. I think the issue with his instincts is that for a significant number of tackles on his highlight film he ran down ball carrier from behind because he either mis-read or missed the tackle. His speed allowed him to get away with some misses because he simply caught up with the runner and tackled him from behind.
Katzenmoyer was the first true freshmen to ever start at linebacker in 1996. Who else?
An angry fan...rooting for an angry team...led by angry coaches
On spielmans a football life.... coach bruce said once he put him in as a freshman he never took him out n he startes rest of yr so #36 is in that club.
O'Deez330
stark county football
Speilman played but I don't think he started. He got in the Oregon State game after the half and recorded a sack, but he was hurt the majority of his freshmen year if I remember correctly.
An angry fan...rooting for an angry team...led by angry coaches
I'll defer to you I was not born his freshman yr. Lol
O'Deez330
stark county football
Katzenmoyer was the first to start his in his first game. But I remember Bobby Carpenter starting 3 games his freshman year.
Little Animal started the Fiesta bowl against Notre Dame his freshman year.
“Right now, Michigan is not at the pinnacle of college football, and that’s all Urban Meyer cares about...He’s been there and knows what it takes to get there.”
Well, let's see, Katz started every game during his career and Laurinitis came in very early his freshman year. It really doesn't matter how many LBs started as a freshman from day one. This isn't Tressel's team anymore, it's Urban Meyer's and he loves to play freshmen. I won't be surprised in the least if Mitchell comes in and starts the season as one of the starting LBs.
Let's put it into a little more perspective; the entire DL is gone and 2 LBs are gone. You have to think Urban will rotate a shitload of guys on the front 7, including freshmen. A lot of scouts and people in the know compare Mitchell to Brian Cushing and Luke Kuechly, albeit a little bigger than him. He's a stud and has all the instincts, intangibles, smarts, and skills.
I'm going to continue to say that Grant will become the VIPER type player like Nathan Williams and he'll be very effective. Bottom line, despite losing alot of experience and leadership, next years defense is going to be SICK.
Well let's see...my point is the difficulty that a freshmen has playing MLB at Ohio State. There have been a lot of great high school players come to Ohio State and they were compared to great players, but only one has ever taken the keys to the defense and took off driving on day one. Your asking alot out of a kid that hasn't even committed yet aren't you?
An angry fan...rooting for an angry team...led by angry coaches
i think may be were all just a bit disapointed that grant isnt starting yet. being 5 STAR and all mabey we expected to much to soon in fairness to him
I dont know karate but i do know crazy and i'm not afraid to use it.
&
If you are the worst player on the field in the middle of your sophomore year after being supposedly the best HS LB in the country, you are underperforming expectations. No one is expecting too much to expect him to be not awful.
I'm not trying to be PC, but I'm a little uncomfortable with speculation concerning who does or doesn't "have it between the ears" - it's presumptious.
Intelligence manifests itself in many different ways. A genius rocket scientist mights be part of team that sends men to the moon, yet he continually gets lost on his way to the grocery store.
We often say that one QB is smart whereas another is dumb when it's that one has better "field vision" than the other guy.
Andy Katzenmoyer might have been a woeful college student, but his instincts as a MLB were brilliant. Meanwhile, Curtis Grant might be a really smart kid who just gets lost when you ask him to roam the middle of the field as a "multitasking" Mike.
I see where you're coming from but like you suggested, it's really a semantic issue. Sure, not "having it between the ears" can imply negative things, but it's generally known what's meant.
@runfido - THANK YOU! well said. I would take it further, but it's not the right time and place. I don't think it's fair to assume 'not having it between the ears' will be received correctly by listeners. It's more correct to simply state his in-game instincts at MLB aren't up to par yet.
did not mean to say any of these kids or young men are "dumb" in anyway. meant football smarts all the way and should of stated it that way.
I dont know karate but i do know crazy and i'm not afraid to use it.
&
Katz's distinction was that he was the first true freshman to start on opening day. Marcus Marek was often described as a '4-year starter.' That counts in my book. Shazier should have started from day one in '11.
Marek's 572 career stops count in my book also, and continues to support my statement of how difficult it is to play MLB as a true freshmen at Ohio State. Consider the names that we're throwing out there, Marek, Katzenmoyer, Spielman, Laurinaitis,.... There's a moral to this story.
An angry fan...rooting for an angry team...led by angry coaches
It does seem that only legendary athletes have done it, but any freshman competing for the spot next year won't be competing against these Hall of Famers; he'll only have to beat out the guys on the team.
Don't forget RDS.
It's not surprising. He was AWFUL at MLB when he played this year. Worse than Storm (whoever everyone thinks "isn't an tOSU LB) and far worse than Boren who hadn't played the position in 4 years. As much as you want to believe in the kid, it's pretty hard to go from the worst LB on the field every game we play as a sophmore to a legitimate contributor at a school like tOSU. Maybe a position like a speed rush DE helps him find his way.
I agree completely. DE has less reads and is somewhat more physically demanding and considering he clearly has the physicality maybe it make sense.
My thought is that we didn't see him spell Nate Williams ever and Josh Perry did which tells me C. Grant will probably never play for the buck in meaningful minutes.
I'd give him a shot to win MLB during the spring, if he fails to play at the high level Urban expects him to move him to DE. The only problem with this too is were gonna be loaded at D-line so he could get buried here during his transition
With all the defensive line talent we already have (and more coming in) I think it would suit Grant better to just stay at LB and learn the position better. Obviously he hasn't lived up to expectations around here, but it happens and he should stick with it.
Writer at http://www.landgrantholyland.com
Sure if Grant were to move to DE he might get lost on the depth chart but then again he was aready riding the bench as a linebacker. If a move allows him to better utilize his talents then I am all for it.
We already have great depth at defense ends position. Grant will not be playing defensive end.
Buckeye_For_Life
Which could mean a transfer, which would be unfortunate.
Or, this entire thread is all an assumption: which as we all know, assume makes an ass out of U and ME.
An angry fan...rooting for an angry team...led by angry coaches
I see what you did there. ;)
“Right now, Michigan is not at the pinnacle of college football, and that’s all Urban Meyer cares about...He’s been there and knows what it takes to get there.”
There is definitely insider info behind this.
LUKE.....LUKE FICKELL....IS THAT REALLY YOU?!?!
An angry fan...rooting for an angry team...led by angry coaches
Nope, not Luke. Just pointing out that the info that served as the impetus for the original post came from multiple insiders.
http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=145&f=1079&t=11119957
I'd consider Curtis Grant an insider. I'm still waiting on his post. I consider everything else speculation and assumption. It's fun to play what if. Read some stuff on bucknuts, but it all appears to be someones opinion at this point.
An angry fan...rooting for an angry team...led by angry coaches
I would make the distinction between speculation and baseless assumption and assumption of the validity of a statement made by someone who has proven to have ties to the OSU staff. I tend toward the point of view that inside info does in fact exist and that this happens to be an example of said info.
We will agree to disagree I suppose.
The depth at DE isn't as rock solid as people think. Urban likes to rotate 2 guys at each line position, and Miller and Moore didn't show a whole lot this season, so if Grant shows more than they have, he could easily wind up in the two deep behind Spence, or even fighting for a starting spot. It's important to consider that Washington and Bennett will be inside a lot.
I think it speaks volumes about how bad Grant was doing, that the staff would move a 5 star LB away from our biggest position of need.
You're dead on.
I don't understand the "TOO MUCH DEPTH GRANT CAN'T PLAY AT DE" talk. We have no idea how good he'll be at DE. He could be better than all that depth. Grant is as athleic as probably any DE we have. He just has been AWFUL at LB. We know, for a fact, that he doesn't have good future at LB. But, with his athleticism, he may have a very good future as a DE. He at least has a chance to compete there. We already know he can't compete at LB, give the man a chance.
True, but we have a pretty good idea how well Noah Spence has played.
I think this should be grants year to live up to his 5 starz. It is his time to shine step up young man.
Buckeye_For_Life
i remeber when someone said boren to MLB and it seemed crazy but plausible. now, its being said grant to DE which again sounds crazy but if true ill go with it, hes as good an athlete as we have on D. id still like to see him figure it out at MLB but id rather have something than nothing at all.
This seems plausible, but it should be a pretty easy decision. If grant looks like he's going to be in the DE rotation, you move him. Let him make an impact. If he won't be in the rotation, let him stay. If he's going to be a backup at either spot, he should be a backup at the position where 1) we have the least depth (LB), and 2) he's been practicing at for 2-3 years (or possibly his whole life).