For years, I've hated on Notre Dame because they refuse to join the Big Ten (among many other reasons). I've always said that I think it's because they're scared the lose to the Buckeyes every year. Anyone who doubts that that would happen, I would like to introduce to you to Troy Smith and Eddie George, they can tell you all about how "storied" and "talented" Notre Dame is.
Anyways, the more I've considered Notre Dame's status objectively, the more I've realized what a great position it is to be independent. They get to choose their own schedule (see their schedule this year for an example of how that can work out, even when some historically good opponents *COUGH* USC *COUGH* suck), can avoid playing crap teams like Indiana and Illinois year in and year out, and get to keep all of their revenues from TV contracts and bowl payouts.
All of this is to say, why doesn't Ohio State become independent? The B1G is obviously not doing us any favors (thanks a lot, Bo Pelini) in terms of national perception. Why not just strike it out on our own? I'm sure that some network would be willing to plunk down some $ (a la NBC and Notre Dame) to get the rights to our games, and I'd bet Michelin would still be willing to hold onto The Game as a marquee end of season game (a la Florida-Florida State). Honestly, the more I write about the better it sounds!
I'm sure there are things I've neglected to consider (and I would like to hear about them), but what do you other Buckeye fans think of this? Why not just go at it alone?
I'm disgusted by the B1G right now. Maybe Delaney should be finding ways to prevent the league's 2nd best team from allowing 70 points in their biggest game of the year, not inviting more garbage teams to water down an already poor conference. Going independent will never happen, though. Too much history, plus, Ohio State IS the Big Ten. The league wouldn't survive an Ohio State defection.
We can't stop here; this is bat country...
To me, the argument of the B1G failing if tOSU leaves is not very compelling. The current situation in college football seems to be sink or swim; why should it be tOSU's sole responsibility to save the sinking ship of the B1G? Maybe it's time to jump ship?
"This is a very complicated case: a lot of ins, lot of outs, lot of what-have-yous."
I doubt that it will happen, but (like you) the more i think about it, the more i love it.
It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog
SEC-SEC-SEC-SEC....Just a thought.
Our honor Defend!
I had been thinking about this for a while. What if tOSU and scUM jumped ship to the SEC and became the 15th and 16th members. I honestly think OSU would be fine down there. We would still get all the ohio guys plus maybe have a better chance of the few that leave and head to the SEC plus we would have even a better chance of getting guys from the south because we will have home games in their area. One positive in being in the BIG is our road to a championship is very easy right now. In the SEC obviously it would be alot harder but were going to have to beat those fools to win a national title in the new playoff any way. if we cant do it in a regular season then how we going to do it then ? The money that SEC network would make would rival the BIG plus have a product that no one could ever match. Its interesting to think about.
We won't feel so bad next year when an ELIGIBLE buckeye team rolls.
Thanks for bringing us back to earth Ultimate Warrior.
"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes
THE Ohio State University
Thaaaats what I do tiiiiney HUUUMAAN.
From Parts Unknown
"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes
THE Ohio State University
I agree, with the caveat that said teams rolls into a national title game birth.
Would an undefeated season where we do not get invited to the NC (of course assuming we are eligible) be the push we need to leave the B1G?
"This is a very complicated case: a lot of ins, lot of outs, lot of what-have-yous."
No, just no. There is no guarantee that going independent would aid OSU.
And give up the millions that BTN brings in? Are you crazy? Also, let's not act like OSU was some world-beater in the Big Ten this year. Squeaking by Purdue, Wisconsin, MSU, Indiana, and Michigan doesn't exactly scream superiority over the rest of the conference.
At least they took care of business. A W is a W.
What is Ohio State's share of the BTN? You don't think they could demand that, or more on their own? (Are you crazy?) Don't forget the weight they are carrying by sharing with the bottom teams in the conference, and also that Ohio State's fan base is at least as big as Norte Dame's, if not bigger. Doesn't seem all that crazy.
No, they couldn't demand anywhere near that on their own. I'm not trying to be mean here, but I don't think you understand the business of college football.
A few months ago Luke Zimmerman was having an argument Ramzy about OSU vs. ESPN and commented that ESPN pays out more money to OSU on a yearly basis than any other school.
For over a decade Notre Dame football was imcompetent, yet I haven't heard anything about them going broke. The size of their fan base and diaspora of their alumni is comparable to Ohio State's. Even BYU is doing fine...and you don't thnk OSU could do well? A big part of the Longhorn Network is supposed to be high school football. The state of Ohio has good high school football as well, except in this case Ohio State is the biggest college football program in the state.
Yes, several schools in the Big Ten contribute substantial revenue. However, once it is divvied to all the schools, what is Ohio State's share compared to what they could bring in on their own (which you dismiss without any support or logic, except of course the ad hominem attack towards me that I can't understand the business of college football). I don't think it would be unreasonable for OSU to schedule Michigan plus at least 2-4 of a California/Texas/Florida/East coast school on a yearly basis as an independent. All of those games would most likely be marquee matchups.
If the BTN is so much more lucrative than being an independent, then please explain why Notre Dame isn't joining the three big revenue generators in the B1G (PSU, UM, and OSU) instead of being so content on their own.
How about you enlighten me --since I just can't seem to "understand the business of college football"--and add something useful to a discussion instead of being a jerk.
ND has a sweet tv deal with NBC that makes them boat loads of money, plus a sweet deal with the BCS that guarantees them a spot if they get 10 wins. If we had our own tv deal and BCS deal it may be worth looking in to
My question is, why couldn't Ohio State negotiate similar deals? Not that OSU is a real possibility. There is zero chance Gene Smith and Gee would consider it. I just think it's an interesting thought.
wrong... ND makes less a year on their tv deal than either Purdue or Indiana do form the B1G's... this is stupid talk
Cause I couldn't go for three
That's how you talk to another human being who didn't do anything to you? Was it too hard to say something like "ND makes X amount per year from their TV deal, even Purdue or Indiana make X amount per year from the BTN"...? It would have been more than enough to get the point across.
Sure, a B1G school gets about $23 M per year from the BTN (from what I've googled), and Notre Dame currently makes about $15 M, but ND's contract is up for negotiation in the next year. As much as it makes me sick to say, they get to say "we were just in the BCS championship" at the negotiation table. Plus, NBC doesn't have much going for them sports wise (hockey is a mess, Olympics is usually a gamble, and well they do have one NFL game a week), plus without having broker a much bigger deal since ND negotiates alone, they may be willing to pay them more than they would in a packaged deal. I also don't know if ND will get some ACC network money from their other sports. I seriously doubt it's more than $1-2 M, but something else to take into account.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not worried about OSU in the B1G. Jim Delany is an evil genius and the BTN negotiations are coming up in 2016. I would bet on each B1G school making more from the BTN than ND will from NBC+ACC network after 2016. I would bet a lot on that. However, that doesn't mean asking questions and wondering what the actual numbers are and how they will change in the coming years is "wrong" and "stupid talk."
Notre Dame's desire to stay "independent" these days (which is used loosely because it is only for football) has mostly to do with their alumni and fanbase wanting it that way and really is a newer thing (maybe about the last 25 years). They peg it on tradition, but even Knute Rockne was a strong supporter for Notre Dame joining the Big Ten back in the day. In 1999 Notre Dame and the Big Ten entered into negotiations with the Notre Dame faculty voting near unanimously in favor of joining the conference. Once this went public and it appeared momentum was gaining for Notre Dame to join the conference, the Notre Dame alumni and fan base became extremely vocal against it. This culminated in the ND board of trustees voting it down. So I think Notre Dame's desire to stay independent has less to do with money than it has to do with upsetting their alumni and fan base (ie their donor's deep pockets). Given that they are willing to partner in all sports but football, their are obviously some incentives to joining a conference.
With regards to Notre Dame's NBC deal, it pays out $15 million currently, with maybe an additional $2 million/yr coming from the ACC now for the other sports. That is approximately what the Big East deal was, so at best maybe they are getting $4 million a year. They are definitely not getting an additional $9 million from the ACC to make up the difference of what Big Ten teams get. Even if their NBC contract increases on the next round, so will the Big Ten's, so Big Ten schools will probably always make more money in the longterm.
Another person brought up the Longhorn Network and saying that going independent would allow tOSU to do the same as Texas and make more money that way. Well, currently, the Longhorn Network is considered an utter disaster. Pun intended. It could be lucrative, but from the start, Texas gets just less than $11 million / yr to start (3% increase a year) until ESPN recoups their money and then Texas will get 70%. Well, currently, only telecoms Verizon Fios and AT&T U-verse carry it. They can't even get a major cable provider to carry it in their own home state! If you google the Longhorn Network, you will quickly see blogs or articles calling it a failure. You just won't see that coming from ESPN though. Recent link provided for some information. http://collegesportsblog.dallasnews.com/2012/11/longhorn-network-ratings...
I would also like to take this down a different path. Ok, let us assume that going independent becomes more lucrative for sports? What is the cost? That cost would come at the form of academics, the reason why so many of the Irish faculty were in favor of joining the Big Ten. You see, while the sports teams are rivals on the field, the faculties of the different universities work together as a team. As an example of what Notre Dame loses, in 2010, Notre Dame spent $78 million dollars on research. Big Ten schools that year spent an average of $506 million that year, with the lowest spender, Indiana, spending $142 million. Notre Dame, a highly respected academic institution, really spends less than Indiana in research? The answer is yes it does, almost by half. Going independent would cause tOSU to lose a lot of academic support that could never be made up by their sports programs going independent. It would be a huge cost that I just don't think is worth it.
In my opinion, if you are already in such a strong academic and sports conference, there is no reason to go independent. You lose way more than anything you might gain.
Thanks for delving into the real facts on this. My posts below this allude to this, but I did not have the time to look everything up. I can understand how some fans can only see the football or basketball side of things because those sports are so visible. One needs to look at the big (pun intended) picture of membership in the B1G. I also find it funny how most ND fans will flaunt their academic prowess, but when given a chance to expand upon it by membership in the Big Ten they opted to remain independent. Talk about the tail wagging the dog!! Thankfully, those in control understand what you have presented here and nothing as extreme as taking the step to independence will ever happen.
It is crazy, we may rule this conference on the field but TSUN, Penn State, and Nebraska all bring in huge revenues and we alone couldn't touch what all of us bring in together. Financially I don't think that we would bring in nearly half as much money.
^^^^ This. We have a huge following but we make more $$$ here than we would on our own. We already make more then the Irish and we will continue to. The difference is that being independent is such a part of ND's identity that they will gladly leave millions on the table annually to keep it. Since we have no such history with independence I don't see the upside to going indy.
"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes
THE Ohio State University
With all due respect, I don't think you do rule this conference on the field. Sure, OSU has had a lot of success lately, but just within the last 25 years, Michigan and OSU are basically even in titles.
Right now we do, you have three wins over us since the millenium. We absolutely rule this conference on the field without question.
Right now meaning what? This year? No. Last year? Nope. Sure, you did when Tressel was here, but unless you have zero sense of history, OSU doesn't by any means rule this conference on the field.
Yes we do, nobody is more neutral than me but it isn't close seriously. Urban went 12-0 in his first freaking year in this conference, doesn't mean TSUN can't get where we are at some point but to act like we don't own this conference is a joke. In fact if there would be a team that would be close IF it be would Wisconsin not you.
Well when you say it isn't close, you should have something to back that up. You squeaked by just about every conference opponent this year. You're not winning the conference this year, and you didn't win it last year. You've won it once it the last four years. You aren't out-recruiting Michigan, and the last two contests have been very close games. What points to you owning the conference right now?
Since 1950.
National champhionship years Michigan 1
Ohio State - 6
Winner - Ohio State
Heisman trophies - Michigan 2
Ohio State 4
Winner - Ohio State
Head to Head - Michigan 27 wins
Ohio State 32 wins
Winner - Ohio State
Conference championships - Michigan 23
Ohio State 26
Winner - Ohio State
Is that good enough? or is 1950 not going back far enough for you? We own you, please leave troll. A lot has happened since Michigan was the best school in the B1G...Like women's sufferage and schools being desegregated....and the end of WWII. You're crazy.
Our honor Defend!
Since 1950
Rose Bowl wins - Michigan - 6
Ohio State 7
Also did you know that in the last 64 years you've only won one national championship and Michigan State aka "Little Brother U" has won 3? Did you know that? Wierd how your little brother has three times as many national championships as you.
Winner MSU
BCS games since BCS era started - Michigan 2 wins
Ohio State 5 (and that not counting the 2011 game)
Winner OSU
Please Tenyearswar can you give me one single objective measurement showing how Michigan has been the best team in the B1G over the last 62 years? Or is that not far enough back for you? You can't becuse you guys are delusional and clinging to memories of a team that existed 100 years ago...not anymore!
Our honor Defend!
DAMN! OSU owns scUM hahaha
go bucks
Hahaha, heck yes we do!
Good on you mate!
The world is full of kings & queens who'll blind your eyes & steal your dreams - it's heaven & hell - Ronnie James Dio.
Actually, The Ohio State University has 7 Heisman trophies.
1944- Les Horvath
1950- Vic Janowicz
1955- Howard Hop-Along Cassady
1974- Archie Griffin
1975- Archie Griffin
2006- Troy Smith
So, suck it TSUN !
I was starting from 1950
Our honor Defend!
The point was that Urban went 12-0 without having the right guys to run his system. That was the worst Urban led Buckeye team you are going to see and they ran the table. Once he has his players in place the Bucks are going to steam roll teams and it won't be close. Ohio State was the only legitimate Big Ten team this year. The rest of the conference was an embarrassment. As far as recruiting goes, Michigan had its one year to steal players from Ohio. That's not going to happen anymore. Hoke is going to have to settle for the Ohio players that Urban doesn't want. Your fooling yourself if you honestly think Ohio State isn't going to pick up where JT left off. The difference is Urban isn't going to take his foot off the pedal like JT did. Get ready to see games get out of hand because Urban won't hesitate to drop as many points as he can on everybody.
A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men
The only way future teams could be worse is when Braxton graduates/leaves we aren't able to replace him with somebody and I seriously doubt this happening. I think that the B1G will be better next year because Wisconsin and MSU are both due for big time bounce back years especially sparty. As far as Hoke's recruiting goes the positive for TSUN is that they might get some really great players in the region that don't fit Urban's system, an example would be an elite pocket passer.
In all fairness to JT, he did leave Urban with Top 5 recruiting classes that had potential across the board. Not to mention, JT did land the #1 dual threat QB in one Braxton Miller, that Urban himself tried to recruit to Florida and failed to land. So the talent was there from the start, thanks to one Jim Tressel. The improvement that Urban might have over Tressel would be some better assistant coaches since he won't suffer from the same sense of loyalty that Tressel seemed to have for some of his guys (ie Bollman).
So let's not pretend Urban is coming in with a huge rebuilding project. Urban came into a situation with a great foundation and a team that already has great talent. Urban just needs to continue the exellence that was put in place by the man before him.
Cry me a river, denial. OSU owns you
"Sherman ran an option play right through the south" - Greatest.Civil.War.Analogy.Ever
Um, it is PAINFULLY obvious that Ohio State rules the field in the B1G. And it's not even close. Only a delusional homer like yourself would make such an embarrassingly wrong statement. I question whether you've actually watched college football since 1997.
We can't stop here; this is bat country...
All annual BTN or B1G revenues are divided among the teams, like when tOSU got $15mil for playing in the championship games, we only saw 1/10th of that, if you remember gene smith returned our just under $2mil sugar bowl payout as part of our self imposed punishment.
For tOSU, being independent and capitalizing on tv contracts, retail sales, and on field success would no doubt be more financially beneficial to the bucks, it is not the case with every school, but we are our brand that wouldn't just survive independently, but would thrive.
No, but 8 conference championships (counting this year-- don't see any reason I shouldn't-- and 2010) in the last 11 years does.
"This is a very complicated case: a lot of ins, lot of outs, lot of what-have-yous."
It's six. And we are talking about this year. OSU going independent would be a disaster for you guys.
Tatoos don't take away championships as far as I'm concerned, and tOSU beat the B1G champ this year (going away, I might add). So it's 8.
I'm not convinced it would be a disaster, but I am convinced it will probably never happen. So there's that.
"This is a very complicated case: a lot of ins, lot of outs, lot of what-have-yous."
To be fair, Wisconsin was the real champ in 2010 as they beat us in a head to head even if we did end up tied with them.
Well it doesn't really matter what counts as far as you are concerned. What matters is what actually happened.
It sure as hell wasn't Michigan.
And what actually happened is that tOSU won the B1G championship in 2010. I was there, I saw it happen.
In fairness, counting this year is a bit of a stretch. Still, 7 out of 11 years would seem to point toward dominance.
"This is a very complicated case: a lot of ins, lot of outs, lot of what-have-yous."
No, what actually happened was that those wins were vacated. Again, reality vs. what you want it to be.
We own you, take your medicine.
Ah now there's a well-developed, persuasive argument!
In all reality, no one in their right mind would want to "own Michiscum". The State as a whole is basically worthless.
An angry fan...rooting for an angry team...led by angry coaches
I wouldn't say, "basically...," it IS worthless
reeks of hotdog water
****igan smells like old water that hot dogs were boiled in. FACT
No, what acutally happened was tOSU won the games, and then it was decided after the fact that those wins shouldn't be recorded on paper.
I guess that makes it reality vs. what Gene Smith and the NCAA think it should be.
"This is a very complicated case: a lot of ins, lot of outs, lot of what-have-yous."
"Those wins" were reality on the football field! See, as hard as you try to block them out of your delusional mind, they're still there aren't they? I've never understood the wolverqueens arrogance. In my lifetime, tsun has been our bitch more times than not. It takes a good Ohio man to make a Michigan man whatever that is. Even though we suffered thru the Cooper years (against tsun), we still had some damn good teams, unlike tsun for the most part, the last 12 years. Go ahead and keep telling yourself we only won because we cheated or we didn't because "those wins" got vacated. If tOSU were getting recruits to come here for tattoos just so we could gain a competitive advantage that would really make you guys look stupid because Dickrod was making the team go thru illegal extra practices (and still couldn't win) and there was some big time money being spent on the Fab five. Oh yeah, I"ve lived thru the "Ten Year War", great times back in the day. If there's going to be another one, we're still waiting........... Since then, we're on our third "Woody" (Bruce, Tressel, Meyer), but I haven't seen any Bo's ! Now gow cry to the "Michigan Men" as to why you guys suck!
@TenYearWar Well considering there is video evidence that actually showed what happened, I'd say you're wrong.
you are a troll... you have negative 292 helmet stickers and counting. GO AWAY!
Absolutely not, we are in by far the most powerful conference in college sports from a financial perspective. Can you imagine what spoiled brats we would look like, do you really want to be Texas??? I hate when people bring this up it's just moronic.
So did I, until recently. Just saying that it's at least worth discussing, rather than dismissing outright.
Also, if the B1G is the most powerful conference financially, why can't it add a meaningful school (besides Nebraska)?
"This is a very complicated case: a lot of ins, lot of outs, lot of what-have-yous."
It is adding meaningful schools, from a financial perspective.
All the schools are meaningful, just because we aren't adding Texas or Notre Dame doesn't mean that they aren't meaningful. The B1G is BY FAR the most powerful conference financially, just hasn't got it done on the field.
Ok, let's play your game. What school do you want? But first they have to pass the test...
1) AAU membership/elite academically... this is non-negotiable.
2) New markets for television... again, non-negotiable
3) Geographic continuality... while Rutgers and Maryland are somewhat outliers, they are connected to Pennsylvania, which is a B1G state.
but most importantly
4) Receptive to a B1G invite. They have to be either in a conference that is in turbulence (BE, ACC) or a lower conference (MAC, CUSA, MWC). They have to have a reason to leave said conference (conference or financial insecurity).
So where is that school? I don't see one.
Cause I couldn't go for three
also think about how hard scheduling would be...notre dame is running in to difficulties and they have very old rivalries. i feel like if we were independent it may be hard to find teams to play the whole season more worthy than B1G opponents. in hindsight this isnt the best argument, but maybe just some food for thought
We could always just ditch conferences- say OSU, TSUN, PSU (they have a huge fan base), ND, BYU, and Texas bundle their tv rights into one channel and sell that. No commitment to play each other- each operates completely as an independent- but the tv rights for football and all other sports are sold together in one contract.
It could work.
All those teams except us and TSUN either are independent, have their own tv channel, or have expressed interest in being independent.
Personally I say stay in the B1G and let Delaney keep making us massive dough, but I do think the possibility is out there.
Yeah b1g sched is good enough if you schedule and beat some heavy hitters ooc. Honestly, winning ooc is the most important thing for a conference. Then it doesnt matter what happens inside. If the b1g took care of biz in weeks 1-4, then the rest of the season is "wow this conference is heavy hitting murderers row".
Bottom line is its too risky to go indy with the cash already coming in. Just get better b1g!
As much as all the expansion disturbs me, if we get to play some old ACC teams instead of MAC or FCS schools. That is a good trade in my book.
"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes
THE Ohio State University
Some of the suggestions of fans absolutely amaze me. And, no - this independent idea is not even worth discussing. All this conference realignment stuff has people making crazy posts. As much as I think OSU adds a lot to the B1G, the league offers more for OSU. The B1G is not just about football, and as much as some fans want it to be, it never will be.
If it's not about football, what sports is it about, exactly?
Also, why is it not even not worth discussing? Even if most of the above discussion has been about why it would be a bad idea, I have found the conversation quite interesting.
"This is a very complicated case: a lot of ins, lot of outs, lot of what-have-yous."
This isn't pro sports, the big ten has many sports to look over as well as academic integrity. Not to mention finances, I would say that every conference in the country wouldn't mind being the league that gets destroyed every year as long as they make the most money.
It is about every sport that is sanctioned by the league. Baseball, basketball, hockey, soccer, volleyball, fencing, wrestling, just to name a few. OSU operates the largest and most diverse athletic department in the country thanks to the opportunities presented to it by the B1G. It is also about academics and the collaboration among the Universities. There is not a school in the country that would not want to share in the research opportunities generated by the B1G. Suggestions to abandon the conference are based solely on the myopic view that football is the only thing that matters. That is not the case, and that is why this idea is not even worth discussing.
Touche, NW. This is why I wanted to post this here, to get some perspective on this issue. So, thank you to one and all: I understand now why staying in the B1G makes sense.
"This is a very complicated case: a lot of ins, lot of outs, lot of what-have-yous."
All those sports you listed exist only b/c OSU has one of the biggest athletic depts in the country. The reason OSu has one of the biggest ADs is b/c we have enough $$$ to subsidize all those sports you mentioned, none of which pay for themselves. Why do we have this $ to spend on fencing? Football.
You look out for your own Football interests first in college sports. Everything else is paid for by it.
Academically, how tough would it be to launch some sort of "Midwest Reserach Universities Union" or something? If ACADEMICS is really what's at stake here, I highly doubt the academic employees at any of these schools would care whether or not we ditched them in Football. If you want academic collaboration, you can easily get it w/out dragging sports into it.
No, we have this $ because of football and the Big Ten... We would make MUCH less as an independent.
And you last point makes no sense. That's not how academia works, at all.
Cause I couldn't go for three
I am totally disgusted with the B1G. I am not advocating jumping ship at this point, but it is so watered down competitively, we will never get to the NCG unless some of these schools start paying for decent coaches instead of just filling the coffers for other things and/or bailing them out of their financial debt. Was anyone else embarrassed watching that joke of a game tonight? Actually, I've been pretty red faced most of the season by the whole conference, minus TOSU, all year. Glad to see DaiTheFlu shares the same feeling as I do.
My feelings exactly! I'm not 100% for leaving the B1G, but I'm also not 100% against it after this year.
"This is a very complicated case: a lot of ins, lot of outs, lot of what-have-yous."
We are in 100% agreement!
We can't stop here; this is bat country...
You mean watered down in football, right? Can't say the same about bball or wrestling or women's vball for that matter. Fball is a big money maker and most popular, but the B1G is about so much more.
Schedule a marquee OOC opponent, and play Rutgers instead of Miami of Ohio. That's good enough or me. The rest of the conference will come around. The SEC is not unbeatable, and I'm pretty sure that mo' money wil translate to mo' competitiveness inside the league. Cash is always king and the B1G is gonna win in the long run.
Playoffs. The playoff system starts in 2014 and the BCS conference champions (- BE) will be cherry picked to be in it. The 2nd place teams in these conferences are essentially 5 thu 8 until the needed-for-fairness expansion to 8 teams.
So, even with a watered down conference, B1G champion tOSU should make the field and prove our worth there, bringing more evenly shared revenue to those who least appreciate it. I SWAG the percentages to making it to the NCG in a playoff scenario to be higher than the current system with weak conference opponent perceptions. My reasoning is based on our AP sitting at #3 on 12/2/12.
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
As long as we got to play TTUN in the final week of every season I'd be ok with going independent. The one drawback would be no more Rose Bowls (outside the playoff). Do we join the Big XII? The competition certainly would be better with annual games vs. Oklahoma, Texas, Ok. State and K-State.
"Sherman ran an option play right through the south" - Greatest.Civil.War.Analogy.Ever
The Ten Year War guy keeps getting down votes...but most (not all) of his views are correct. If you take away the B1G conference...then you have to schedule high level teams like ND did this year (I'm not so sure OSU wins every year or goes undefeated like they could in tB1G if you have Stanford, OU, USC, as OCC teams...do you??? Maybe one of them...but not all three in one season). Any other year and ND loses probably two if not three games against the competition it had on it's preseason schedule (The B1G teams they played were down and USC had a 7-5 team as OU had three loses). I HATE ND bc they feel staying Independent makes them "above" everyone else. This years Buckeye team reminds me alot of ND this year...and look at three of ND's games against the same teams OSU played...very similar besides Purdue in OT (but ND's game was close too). Basically, OSU, like ND, would have to get "lucky" with a schedule like they had this year in order to go undefeated and be independent. Long story short...OSU would not survive on a consistent basis without a conference...bottom line. Let the down votes commence...didn't think that could happen over difference of opinion...especially an opinion...that makes sense!
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."
"I love football. I think it is most wonderful game in world and I despise to lose."
Woody Hayes 1913 - 1987
I agree with what you are saying, but the B1G does nothing to prepare OSU for a national championship. I guess what I am saying is I don't OSU to make it to the NC game just because their conference was easy. I really fault Michigan for being so bad.
That is why we are boosting our out of conference competition. If the B1G continues to be down. I say, instead of having our games with OK or Va Tech or Texas or Oregon at the start of the season, put it midway so we can have a good test of our skills as a measuring stick during the middle of the season.
"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes
THE Ohio State University
"Being so bad" ...?
If losing to the #1, #2, and #2A teams in the country (Combined 36-1), all away from home is bad, then yes, it's Michigan's fault for scheduling Alabama and ND.
And it's not like losing @Nebraska in a primetime game when your starting QB goes down halfway through the 2nd is all that bad, either. It was Michigan's fault they didn't have Gardner ready to go.
Those who stay will be CHAMPIONS!
~Bo Schembechler
Speaking of scheduling...hopefully this doesn't happen again for your home opener for 2014 Hail...sure would be a shame if it did. Nothing more "bad" then rescheduling a FCS for revenge....what a joke your school is...JOKE!
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."
"I love football. I think it is most wonderful game in world and I despise to lose."
Woody Hayes 1913 - 1987
Although your joke comments, are rubbish at best, and knowing your commenting style, I'm assuming that the link you provided has something to do with App St, which is actually a valid point about Dave Brandon's biggest scheduling fallacy. Zero good can come from putting them back on the schedule. It's going to bring weeks worth of flashbacks of The Horror and it offers no sort of redemption, whatsover. If we win big: "Congratulations on whooping a team you should've beaten by 2 touchdowns the first time." If we barely win: "Michigan's nemesis App St almost got them again."
I will not be attending the game under any circumstances. If Brandon has any smarts, he'll find a way to get it off the schedule. I hope the Big house is 2/3 empty, to be honest, if it is played (which it probably will be).
Those who stay will be CHAMPIONS!
~Bo Schembechler
I also agree with what you're saying, to a point. I think most of Tenyearwar's downvotes came from comments like "you don't know much about the business of football" and the like.
I'm also with you, wmbuckeye, that making it to NC's just because the B1G sucks isn't necessarily an argument for staying in the conference.
"This is a very complicated case: a lot of ins, lot of outs, lot of what-have-yous."
BHOP, for one, I would direct you to the commenting policy, in particular the Don't Be a Jerk section in which it states not to leave comments like:
Which is what he/she did when he/she wrote:
With an added patronizing tone for a kick. That's just one example. A lot of other comments made were in a trolling nature. Sure some of his/her comments were perfectly fine, but I think the realization that a lot of comments were made in a trolling nature and/or are borderline, if not justfiable, violations of the commenting policy brought on piling up of downvotes.
So you're telling me your my stalker....OK then. Now I know who continually fines me anywhere I am and gives me down votes...here I thought it was a TUN fan;-) How wrong I was....Or are you a Moderator in training....???? Either way...I don't go after or search people out...kind of like you did me...just weird bro or gal.
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."
"I love football. I think it is most wonderful game in world and I despise to lose."
Woody Hayes 1913 - 1987
What?
If you were talking to me, I was just explaining why thetenyearwar was getting so many downvotes in this thread because you mentioned it. I didn't search you out...not even sure what you are talking about. I'll even give you an upvote because I have no problem with you. I was just explaining why thetenyearwar was getting downvotes, which was nothing more than my personal opinion.
I was kidding...just move on was my point. I realize where you got the quotes from and so on. My point is...don't let "anything" anyone tries to do on here get under your skin....it's just not worth it. Thats all....no harm intended and I noticed it was your opinion...that's why I mentioned that. Have a good one man...
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."
"I love football. I think it is most wonderful game in world and I despise to lose."
Woody Hayes 1913 - 1987
Leaving the B1G would be a really bad move. It's more $ from the collective bargaining with media, a conference we (mostly) own- so much better odds of going undefeated, and all the great exposure we we get on the BTN.
I love my alma mater, and it is much more than football. It will be a bad day when we become as pompous and arrogant as ND and TX.
If ND doesn't join a conference in the next decade, it will be bad for them, too.
Seriously, do people lose sleep over these "down" votes? LOL. The way I look at it, each person is entitled to their opinion. Down Votes smdh
I don't understand it, either. Bizarro.
I'm not losing sleep over ANYTHING that transpires here...it's the point of utilizing it...for what it's meant to be used for. Not down voting because you disagree...that was the point. I down vote ignorant or mean comments...as well as tTUN fans that come here to be closet Buckeye fans.
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."
"I love football. I think it is most wonderful game in world and I despise to lose."
Woody Hayes 1913 - 1987
Assuming you are referring to 10YearWar, I don't think he/she has pretended to be an OSU fan at all.
"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes
THE Ohio State University
One thing: in a year ND doesn't make a BCS bowl, they make less money than Indiana (or any B1G school for that matter)....conference revenue sharing is a big big big deal
Works wonders in the NFL.
Thanks Alex...if I could up vote you I would brother;-)
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."
"I love football. I think it is most wonderful game in world and I despise to lose."
Woody Hayes 1913 - 1987
In a year Notre Dame doesn't make a BCS they get $1.3 M. The year Ohio State made the Sugar Bowl their cut was around $2 M. $0.7 M is a big deal? When Notre Dame makes a BCS bowl they get around $4.5 M. For big programs I don't think it's that big of a deal either way.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2012/09/14/notre-dames-acc-move-d...
also, leaving the conference would not guarantee SEC matchups - the only teo teams that ever go north of the rive barrier have been Bama and LSU. The rest stay down there. We would never get marquee games in the shoe after early October (when was the last time USC came to ND in November?) It would be very hard to schedule 8 home games every year - considering that football supports every other varsity sport besides mens BB, the loss to the atletic department would be catastrophic.
In return, you might end up with a higher SOS.
The answer is holding these other schools acountable and adjusting the revenue sharing where schools (can you say X) that aren't puting forth any effort in facilities, coaching, etc. lose some green
Buckeye768, it wasn't directed at you or anyone else. I'm just saying "in general" do people lose sleep because someone gave them a down vote? People can down vote me all the want. It doesn't change the taste of these wings today lol
I don't understand why everyone thinks football drives this. Yes its a factor, but Ohio State's athletic department makes Millions of dollars, the med center and all the research that goes on makes billions. As in thousands of millions of dollars more. The CIC and all the research that the Big ten does is worth way more then the football product (obviously, see rutgers/maryland). Leaving the B1G would be a terrible idea unless we kill sports altogether university of Chicago style b/c thats the only way we could stay in the CIC. And who wants that?
It must be nice to be Indiana, Illinois, Iowa or Minnesota and suck, yet still get paid the same. At least Northwestern makes a decent run once in awhile.
One could get political here. LOL.
You just did. @#%%#$@ off.
Good point, but I the other option is becoming Texas and we have seen how well that worked out for the Big 12. Do we get a share of bowl money this year (not sure since we are inelligible).
"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes
THE Ohio State University
If Ohio State were to leave the Big Ten would Delaney "allow" Ohio State to play M*chigan? I know it is up to the teams to schedule whom they want but Delaney very well could use some pull to prevent the two from playing. I too am disgusted in the Big 1+11 right now and how with all this revenue, teams pay their head coaches less than the sec pay their assistants.
Some said go to the SEC - NO WAY! I refuse to picture my Buckeyes holding up the trophy on behalf of that league! It WILL be much more satisfying holding it up in their face!!! We will never be an independent and these days I don't think you would really want to be. Big Ten may be made fun of nationally but the Buckeyes are in a good spot.
I do not want to be Texas, BYU, or ND. Texas in trying to make more $ for only themselves alienated the entire league drove away three teams and ironically appeared to have failed to establish a profitable network.
I hate that when there is a meeting of Conference Leaders Notre Dame's AD shows up. They should show him the door.
I like that we play well with others. I like being in the B1G. I do not like the direction they are heading or that it may feel like we are actually in the ACC in a couple of years. But we are the B1G. I like playing in cold weather. The thing I like most about Urban's offense is that it is a POWER spread. I love still seeing a big back like Carlos plowing over defenders. I like making fun of Bret. I love hating tSUN. I love that we have four of the top ten winningest programs of all times.
What I don't love is the downslide of the other programs. Part of that is geography. But part of that is coaching. What should happen is that the BTN profits should be earmarked when handed out to the programs. Here you go Purdue, here's your check for $25M but 20% has to be spend on a coaching staff and 20% has to be spend on facilities upgrades.
I don't like having to carry Iowa or Minnesota's water when they refuse to make the necessary investments to become a slightly-not-a-flaming-sh*twreck D1 team. Look, I understand college athletics involve lots of hypocrisy and that educating students should trump athletics. THAT'S FINE. But if you want to do that, don't keep being a hypocrite and still trying to get in your slice of that sweet, sweet BTN $ pie. Suck it up, go the UChicago route, and join D2 or something.
BUT If you want to play with the big boys, you need to pony up. It's OBVIOUS our conference mates are freeloading off our success right now w/out making the necessary investments to hold up their end.
Schierbuck, I agree 100% with everything you just said. I've actually stated most of those points in other threads, especially the revenue-sharing portion and the point about B1G coaching being subpar compared to other leagues. Let's face it, aside from Ohio State and maybe Michigan, mediocrity is accepted as the norm at other B1G schools. It's no wonder MSU, Iowa, Purdue, PSU, Illinois and Minnesota can berely fill their stadiums to 75% capacity.
Onetwentyeight, you're also spot-on.
We can't stop here; this is bat country...
Never going to happen, we are the big 10.
Itd be extremely interesting if Gene Smith threw the idea of OSU leaving the Big 10 out there. See who bites and what offers could be possible. Id love for OSU to be independent or form some sort of mini conference with the likes of Texas, Notre Dame, Oklahoma, Michigan.
Been saying this for months. The B1G needs us way more than we need them. Look at Texas. They're the only school comparable to us in scope, and they basically hold the Big XII hostage picking and choosing who they want to stay. And if the Big XII dissolves, is Texas worried? They would get suitors up the yazoo.
For all the people saying we'd lose money if we left, two words: Buckeye Network. The real people that would lose money are the Indiana and Northwesterns who would be splitting a much smaller BTN pie if we were to leave.
As for "quality" of opponents, 1.) if we stay in the B1G, this quality will just go DOWN the drain more and more. At some point it will come back to bite us not being able to play with even half-competent D1 teams. 2.) We don't have to go down the Full ND route. We can schedule a few more MAC teams (note: top tier of MAC > bottom tier of B1G these days), still get in PSU, UM and maybe IDK sparty, plus a few high profile "rivalry" series with Texas/USC and the like. And with the advent of the PLAYOFFS the perfect record will mean even less than SOS and who you played and beat. PLUS, better football games all around for everyone.
OSU has the largest athletic department in the country, Texas's and Notre Dame's don't even compare, nor does BYU, all independents. What do you do with the other 38 varsity sports not named Ohio State football?
I don't have any numbers atm, but i'm Fairly sure Texas is at least on the same level as us. IIRC they actually make more pure revenue than us some years.
But yeah, honestly, I don't know. But football IS the cash cow that subsidizes at least half of these other sports, and so from a utilitarian point of view you look out for your own Football interests first. I'm sure we could negotiate some 'arrangement' where we stay B1G for other sports, or failing that, it's not like EVERY OTHER CONFERECE EVER wouldn't jump at the chance to add us for non-Football sports. ACC? Our hoops team could play UNC and DOOK every year?
Ugh, seriously is this a serious post??? If we left we would still have a monstrous fanbase obviously but it wouldn't compare to being in a conference like the big ten. The big ten pie would be not that much smaller if we left as we can say whatever we want about the tsun, psu, nebraskas of the world but they all have top ten fanbases naturally. Only the very bottom of the big ten is equivalent to the very top of the mac but it's that way in other conferences as well. Did you miss Arkansas and Auburn losing to I think it was Ul Monroe????? College football works in cycles, i've never heard a more stupid idea.
This thread is just sill nonsense... You all sound like Penn St fans that want to go join the ACC. Ridiculous...
Cause I couldn't go for three
Those Penn State fans think that the B1G is out to get them and that nobody in the B1G respects them. I haven't seen any comments that are anything even close to that in this thread. On top of that I don't even think anyone here seriously wants, or is advocating for, Ohio State to leave (I know I for sure don't want them to leave). It's nothing more than a hypothetical discussion. Pretty harmless, and typical for a forum on the internet.
I love the idea. But the shared B1G revenue allows us to offer more sports teams for our students than any other school (I believe). If we went indi, well, I think we'd have to put more money back into football and basketball, so the other sports would suffer/go away. So, my selfish self says- hell yeah! But the soft squishy sharing self says...eh, stay in the conference and keep the revenue to allow more students the opportunity to play sports they love/enjoy more of their college experience and TOSU.
Plus, as history has taught us (patience, patience, patience) conference power changes. It's currently SEC in football and the B1G in basketball. But, in five years, will that be the case? Football power could change back to the B1G in football- it IS possible and maybe even the SEC will become a power in basketball....so, I do feel the pain of being a really, really, not good football conference right now, but let's be patient and hopefully it will change soon.
Side Note: I live in Utah and when the Utes went to the Pac12 it pretty much screwed byu, which was awesome. They (bywho) decided to go the independent route. What's so awesome (if you don't like byu) is that they are playing an even softer schedule, than in the past, because nobody really cares about them, or cares to play them. They basically went back to a WAC schedule, playing a bunch of teams that nobody else really cares about on a national level. So, in this case of a school going independent, it probably hurt byu or at least, it doesn't seem like it's helped. They did schedule a national power- Notre Dame, and I think they could probably schedule one, maybe two teams w/some national significance in the future...but in this case? 1. Who cares, it's byu, 2. They don't have enough cache, like an OSU would have, to pull it off and be significant and 3. They THOUGHT they had the national cache to pull it off but for now, it doesn't seem like it's working.
"I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy." Groucho Marx
Doing a periodic audit of upvote/downovotes and I'm seeing way too many downvotes for TheTenYearWar in this thread. I cannot say this any more clearly: If you do not agree with someone's opinion, that does not mean you downvote them.
If this continues, we will take punitive action (as it's very easy for us to see who downvotes what).
Bump (just for good measure).