Recruiting rules
Does anyone know a good site to find recruiting rules? Specifically I'm trying to figure out how some schools sign 30+ players. I thought there was a 25 player limit, clearly I'm wrong. TAMU has 33 at the moment. How? I get the 85 limit but can you simply sign any number to fill your 85 in a particular year? What about over signing, is that a conf by conf issue?
Pretty sure the 25 is a B1G rule. And don't get me started on oversigning
Sorry Urban, Woody is still my favorite
No joke Triv. Not paying your coaches is dumb. Oversigning is just plain DIRTY.
theDuke
You can have early enrollees in each class that count towards your previous years class if you had spots left in last years class. My guess is that Texas A and M is probably expecting quite a few early enrollees and has the spots to fit them all.
Favorite Buckeye: Obviously BJ Mullens
In another thread I posted a good article from Texas A&M blog. This was back in June, with early enrollees, back then they projected they could take 31. I don't know their situation, but if they have a couple guys leaving early or transfers/dismissals since June then 33 is a number they could probably take. They aren't going to exceed their 85 schollies, so it's really not oversigning. Back in june they expected 5 early enrollees, if that number pushed up to 6 then those guys could count to 2012's class which was only 19. They may pull a couple offers along the way, but they won't get over the 85 schollie limit.
Early Enrollies, Large Senior Class, Guys Leaving are giving these teams such large classes. They are already well under the scholly limit as it is. It is a sign of bad recruiting to even be able to sign such a large class, not a sign of an advantage.
I beg to differ. Even a team that only signs 25 a year and stays at 85 total can still get a significant advantage by "oversigning". The key point is you have to get a good player "churn" going so you can stay close to 25 EVERY year. The "churn" benefits you because you're throwing out the players you whiffed on evaluation wise, and replacing them with another batch of star "candidates". This is where the SEC is WAY ahead of everyone else. They are sifting through a LOT more players to find the good/great players.
To really address the dirty aspects of oversigning, there probably needs to be a rolling 4 year period in which the total cumulative number of scholarship players a program signs is limited. Doesn't matter if a player quits after one month or 3 years, they still count against you and determine how many scholarships you can give in a given year. Then it makes much more sense to keep that 2 year player who hasn't contributed yet and do your best to develop them into a better player, instead of taking the easy way out and kicking them to the curb.
A&M is not oversigning this year is the point. They only had 19 in last year's class, and 79 scholarship players. 6 early enrollees in this years class would count on last year's class, bringing that up to 25 and a total of 85 scholarship athletes. Counting on attrition (which we are counting on as well so that we can get this class to 24 or 25) and guys leaving early, plus a large senior class they can have a class of 33 and not be violating the SEC's new policy and not technically be oversigning.
Our 2015 class will have 3 more schollies because the sanctions will be gone. There will be guys leaving for the NFL at that point too. Braxton will have just completed his final season and there will be guys gone, and attrition. That class may very well have 30, and we wouldn't be oversigning either. A&M won't be throwing guys off the team to make room. They have the room already.
Bingo, when a team like Alabama and LSU oversign, it is an advantage. When a team like Texas A&M have a huge class, it is usually a sign that they have poorly recruited in past years. If Alabama signns 30+ players, you know they are oversigning. Texas A&M's huge class is easily attributed to poor recruiting in past years.
I would agree with that ^
With the new Rules in that conference I don't see how Bama ever gets to 30 without a lot of attrition. I'm kind of over the whole oversigning topic anyway. I think this year showed us, more than anything a coach is what gives a program the biggest advantage. The worst oversigner out there, Houston Nutt, never wins SEC titles. Plus, I really believe that even if the SEC had the exact same stance on the issue as the B1G people would be crying foul whenever a kid left a program or had a legit medical hardship etc.
Thanks for contributing.
i chuckled lol
"Winter is coming" - Urban Meyer
I think this is the article BTalbert is talking about -- http://www.themidnightyell.com/2012/06/breaking-down-numbers-in-class-of-2013.html
And to Steesn's point, I know they pulled a defensive players' offer after he blew out his knee. A&M preaches integrity, honor, and doing things the right way. Simply put, I don't see any way the university would support a coach that oversigns. The administration (and the student body, for that matter) would lose their minds.
I know if I had a kid that was getting recruited for D1 I would strongly urge him to not go to one of those schools because of those rules. Well heck if my kid is good enough he better go to Ohio State.. and now I'm dreaming..
Too bad tSEC probably has different rules than everyone else...that you won't find anywhere...google or not.
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."
"I love football. I think it is most wonderful game in world and I despise to lose."
Woody Hayes 1913 - 1987
If I have 80 scholarship players this year (2012) and I sign 30 (with 5 enrolling early) all 30 are still there in 2013. I don't follow how enrolling them in the 2012 class helps.
It's 85 "this" year, whatever year "this" is.
Here's two thoughts for you on how to do the accounting (after all, this is all just accounting).
1) Those 5 who sign to the 2013 class but enroll early did not play during the 2012 year. They participate in spring practice, but they did not play in a game during the 2012 season (or bowl, as it may be). Therefore, they participate in one year of 2012 and 2013, so they get counted for one year, just early.
2) Say they sign 35. The next 5 do not have to count against 2013 either. Suppose that the staff really likes the raw skills of a player, but they are not polished at their position, or the staff wants them to play a different position than they are playing now. They make an agreement, the player "signs" for the 2013 class, enrolls at Fork Union or similar for a year, and does not actually play for the team until 2014, at which point they count against scholarship limits.
These are both perfectly acceptable under appropriate conditions. However, a "bad" program should be criticized for both. You shouldn't cut extra players to make room for more, and you shouldn't ship players off to Fork Union unless both the player and the team knew that this was going to happen when the player committed.
BTALBERT25's analysis is pretty clear and appreciated, but A&M is at 34 now (Rickey Seals-Jones) and presumably counting, given that there are almost two months left before signing day. Let's say they get to 38, which is Houston Nutt territory. Even with a small class from last year, that leaves only 47 spots for sophomores, juniors, and seniors. I'm sorry, I'm crying bullshit in terms of whether they are going to honor all of this year's commits or all of the kids currently on the team. I think this is a case of "when in Rome (Tennessee, that is)" for A&M.
I believe the only steadfast rule is the NCAA rule of 85 total players on scholarship for each program. Can divide it however you see but I don't think there is a annual cap. Think about it, a program has 85 scholly players. 22 are seniors and leave. 5 declare early for the draft. 4 leave due to medical, grades, transfer or whatever. That is 31 open spots to get back to 85 total. Some years can be like that. So I don't think there is an issue with having 33 recruits committed in a single year.
The question that arises often are how does a school have 30 + recruits each year, like how some SEC schools supposedly have done. Now that raises questions because either you are oversigning or the coach is kicking out the trash way too often to get an advantage. It is not fair to the student athletes when that happens.
but a year with 33 recruits can happen! Have to be able to get to 85 somehow. In 2 years, buckeyes will probably recruit more than 25 just to get back up to 85 when they are allowed.
I would be really surprised if the 2015 class doesn't approach 30. There are a lot of sophomores on this team who will be gone and you never know which Fresman that were significant contributors this year, will leave after the jr year then either. And, instead of 82 we'll be allowed to 85 schollies again. The 2015 class will be a big one.
A&M is currently at 34 this is ridiculous