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Ohio State...THE luckiest school out there

toad1204's picture
toad1204 on 11 Dec 2012 - 7:17pm #

Luck is where the crossroads of opportunity and preparation meet. - Seneca, a first-century Roman philosopher

"The only smarts I have are that I'm smart enough to know I can outwork 'em.  If I can work a little harder, and we can be a little better prepared than the other guy, then we'll make luck come our way.  Darrell Royal says that luck is when preparation meets opportunity, and he's about right.  If you get kids to believe that, you've really got something going." - Woody Hayes

Nothing like dancing on the field in 02... 

cajunbuckeye's picture
cajunbuckeye on 11 Dec 2012 - 7:41pm #

I'm not sure if the Buckeyes were the luckiest team in college football. However, I do consider myself the luckiest college football fan in America. I enjoyed a season that made me laugh, cry, scream, use profanity, high five total strangers, throw things in anger, and stand cheering in my living room nearly in tears. I had the pleasure of enjoying what may possibly be my favorite season, and if I'm lucky, I'll still be around for 2013.

An angry fan...rooting for an angry team...led by angry coaches

Poison nuts's picture
Poison nuts on 12 Dec 2012 - 10:30am #

Well said Cajun - very well said!

The world is full of kings & queens who'll blind your eyes & steal your dreams - it's heaven & hell - Ronnie James Dio.

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CincyOSU on 11 Dec 2012 - 7:43pm #

This is actually pulled from an article from Football Outsiders. They use some kind of formula in determining things like this. It's not an OSU slam piece at all.

Bucksfan's picture
Bucksfan on 11 Dec 2012 - 8:34pm #

I saw a lot of things watching Ohio State this year, and luck was not one of them.  This team had to outscore their opponents at times by out-scheming opposing defenses, and had to rebuild parts of the defense after several injuries.

CincyOSU, it is most certainly a slam piece.  It definitely isn't a compliment.  It feeds into the narrative that Ohio State isn't good...that's what most people would interpret "being lucky" means.

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TheHumbleBuckeye on 11 Dec 2012 - 9:00pm #

I've been saying for a long time that LSU is just so friggin lucky. They're not as dominant as people think. If you're dominant, you don't need to gamble like they do. Let's look at Les Miles' record against two coaches known for their attention to detail: Urban Meyer and Nick Saban.

Against Urban, Les is 3-3.

The wins? 13 points in '06, 30 point blowout in '08, 10 points in '09. All double digits wins.

The losses: 

1) 2005 - Urban's first year. 4 point loss after Les went for it on 4th and 1 at midfield while still int he third quarter. Extended the drive and gave LSU the eventual go ahead TD.

2) 2007 - LSU scores two TDs on 4th and goal, as well as a another TD on a fake field goal, and still only wins by 4. In that game, the Les was 5-5 on 4th down conversions.

3) 2010 - the infamous "bounced" fake field goal. Never seen a luckier play in my life. Another 4 point win for Les.

Against Saban, Les is 3-4.

The wins? 6 points in '08, 9 points in '09, 21 points in '11, and 4 points this year.

The losses:

1) 2007 - John Parker Wilson fumbles at the Alabama 4 with 1 minute left in a tie game to set up a game winning TD.

2) 2010 - a reverse on 4th and 1 extends a late drive that gives LSU the go ahead TD in the 4th. Loses by 3 points.

3) 2011 - Alabama goes 2/6 on field goals. Loses by 3 points in OT.

If not for his absurd success rate in gambling, he's probably sporting a 1-5 record against Urbz and a 1-6 record against Saban. If this year's game against Alabama is any indication, coaches are catching on and his luck is running out. The longer you gamble, the more likely the House eventually wins its money back.

side note: I predicted three losses for LSU this year, but I had no idea Arkansas and Auburn would be so God-awful (and Auburn still almost won). So its up to Clemson to deliver my prediction to me.

 

 

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d5k on 12 Dec 2012 - 2:57pm #

FYI, going for it on 4th and 1 is not a gamble in the implied sense that you are describing.  It is a gamble in that every action with a chance of success and failure is a gamble.  But it is a good gamble to make, especially with field position at midfield or closer where a punt has limited value due to touchbacks.

luckynutz's picture
luckynutz on 11 Dec 2012 - 9:03pm #

Cincyosu, do you work for espn? Own stock in it? I mean, what's your deal. Any time anyone says anything about espn you run to the rescue and defend them and discount what the others say. Why? Espn may not go out of its way to disrespect ohio state, but they certainly don't go out of their way not to, either. Just wondering why you love espn so much as to negate any claims by our fans as there being some bias towards us from some of the fine folks at the four letter network?

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CincyOSU on 11 Dec 2012 - 11:31pm #

Lucky - No, some of us are just logical. This is NOT an anti OSU article. 1) it's not even an ESPN piece(its content comes from another source) and 2) there are 4 other teams listed. It's nothing more than a stupid filler article in a boring sports week. 

You can call me out all you want but there are many others that agree with me. I've never once said ESPN was a great news source as I feel they are pretty shoddy in a lot of things they do, but it gets rather tiring seeing some ppl throw hate at ESPN for one "bad" article, yet ignore the 3 good ones. And why can the anti ESPN club share their opinions, but I cannot share mine? Could it be you would rather have affirmation than information that goes against your biased opinions?

 

Oh and the only reason I commented on this was bc the OP posted this as if were an ESPN piece when in fact the article and it's opinions come from another source. I was simply pointing out a fact. 

luckynutz's picture
luckynutz on 12 Dec 2012 - 11:18am #

Opinions are opinions. And that's what this board is here for. To share opinions with fellow buckeye fans. Never said you had no right to voice an opposite opinion than someone else. If we all had to follow the same line of thinking, this forum wouldn't be much fun at all. One of the best parts of being a fan is the exchange of idea and views on all things buckeye. We don't have to agree, only have to respect each others point of view.

That being said, I could really care less what espn has to say. I use their website for fantasy football and news about baseball. Other than that, I find their writers to be whiny, self righteous hacks who like to grandstand about issues that aren't exclusive to sports. I've read a few articles that include material about ohio state. I know people took issue with the article including cardales play school tweet. It wasn't centered on ohio state, but people are so deadset on proving espns bias they took it wrong. I took it as another espn hack decrying the downfall of the student athlete as a whole.

At the end of the day, espns sole motivation is to generate website hits, ratings and revenue. What better way than to rile up the biggest fanbases in the country. Notre dame fans hate rick reilly. We hate mark may. I don't think there is a bias against ohio state. We are just a big, rabid fanbase. And we keep reading, keep watching and keep filling the coffers at espn. so they will keep running the stories with ohio states name in the headlines.

One last thing...I wasn't trying to call you out. If it came across that way, I apologize. I undertand your point, and I tend to agree with you. Just one of those things I've noticed you tend to post about. Trying to gain a better understanding of your side of the argument is all.

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CincyOSU on 12 Dec 2012 - 12:12pm #

No worries man...I do get a little touchy on that subject at times. I actually don't care for a lot of the things they do, and I usually have no issue with ppl who don't like ESPN...so long as they actually "know" why they feel that way rather than just jumping on the bandwagon without really knowing why.

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TheHumbleBuckeye on 11 Dec 2012 - 11:57pm #

I put together a well reasonded opinion above about why Les Miles isnt that great of a coach in comparison to Saban and Meyer how LSU is very lucky. It was one of the only responses pertinent to the discussion of "lucky teams". And yet this thread devolved into another "ESPiN hates OSU" argument.

(sigh)

Honestly, can anyone out there - objectively speaking - not understand why people are annoyed by OSU fans?

Seriously peeps, I've acknowledged a bias in the past, mostly due to ESPiN's conflict of interest in their broadcast agreements. But that doesn't mean every story on Urban Meyer/OSU is intentionally leaked to be negative.

And you guys think Penn State fans are delusional. Pot, meet kettle.

Run_Fido_Run's picture
Run_Fido_Run on 12 Dec 2012 - 4:14pm #

I enjoyed reading your analysis of Lucky Miles above, but also thought D5K made a good point in repsonse.

I also agree that many Buckeye fans overreact to many Ohio State-related articles published on espn.com. Cincyosu is right that the list of luckiest teams was no way, shape, or form a hit piece on OSU, especially as Football Outsiders ran the numbers that generated the list.

That said, there's two sides to this same annoying coin: as soon as a member of the "ESPiN hates Ohio State" crowd complains about an espn article, their frenemies instantly appear to defend espn against any and every insult. When we ask espn's cyber-guardians why they feel so compelled to defend espn at every turn, they say that they're merely trying to combat fan stupidity, which supposedly gives their alma mater a bad name, or something. And yet the problem, according to them, only gets progressively worse. Still, they soldier onward in defense of espn. 

Let's set aside the bias question. Espn/ABC has a near monopoly on major cfb telecasts and is by far the biggest media source/corporation that "reports" and editorializes on cfb. For that reason, they ought to be subjected to constant criticism - holding them accountable, etc. IMO, the quality of College Game Day and espn game announcing have declined. In recent years, espn has made a good business out of talk show hyberbole - two sides taking strong, even outlandish positions, and shouting over who is right. Isn't the "ESPiN hates OSU" crowd simply playing one side of that game (in the process helping to draw page hits, etc.), with espn's cyber-defenders playing the other side? As far as I'm concerned, this hyperbolic game is a distraction from espn's longer-term fundamental weaknesses. In other words, espn's cyber defenders aren't doing them any favors.   

captain obvious's picture
captain obvious on 11 Dec 2012 - 9:21pm #

makes sense to me God is clearly a BUCKEYES fan

I'm a friend of thunder is it any wonder lightning strikes me

ShowThemOhiosHere's picture
ShowThemOhiosHere on 11 Dec 2012 - 9:28pm #

Most every undefeated team in history that I'm aware of needed a bounce here or there to make it happen.  Yes, OSU got a couple of bounces here and there, but they earned every win they got this season. 

A formula determines this stuff?  We all know how great formulas are...(see:  BCS)

Class of 2010.

Buckeyebrowny919's picture
Buckeyebrowny919 on 12 Dec 2012 - 10:13am #

lol, gentlemen, wasn't calling it a slam piece. I was just interested in the article and figured i'd pass it on, but i could not believe that it made front page. I am under the assumption also that ever undefeated team has at least an ounce of luck.

"Winter is coming" - Urban Meyer

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TheHumbleBuckeye on 12 Dec 2012 - 2:15pm #

Agree on all points. I enjoyed the piece. Thank you for passing it along.

RBuck's picture
RBuck Mod on 12 Dec 2012 - 11:38am #

As my old pappy used to say, "you make your own luck".

"It's just another case of there you are". ~ Doc (1918-2012)

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CincyOSU on 12 Dec 2012 - 12:09pm #

I see that one of my mature "fans" went out and downvoted the last 11 comments I made. Grow up bro, just because we don't have the same opinion does not require a downvote. I was not condescending nor rude in anything I have said.

BME_Buckeye's picture
BME_Buckeye on 12 Dec 2012 - 2:24pm #

Luckiest Teams 

1. Ohio State

2. LSU

3. Stanford

4. Louisville

5. Notre Dame

Unluckiest Teams

1. Michigan State

2. Oklahoma State

3. Michigan

4. BYU

5. Cincinnati 

I've posted the comments from the insider for Ohio State and just for fun added Michigan St and Michigan since they are B1G teams. 

1. Ohio State Buckeyes (12-0)

One of our measures of overachievement is based on win expectations, a measure of a team's record as compared with its performance. Most teams play within one game of expected average wins over the course of the year, but there are outliers like the Buckeyes. According to our data, Ohio State won 2.0 more games than a team with its FEI rating against its schedule should have been expected to win. In the last five years, teams that had a mean wins performance at least two games better than expected lost an average of 2.6 more games the following year.

Urban Meyer's team can avoid that drop-off by continuing its dominant play in value drive scoring, defined as possessions that start on a team's own side of the field and cross the opponent's 30-yard line. Ohio State ranked seventh nationally in net points per value drive this season. The top ten teams in the category had a combined record of 100 wins and 18 losses against FBS teams this year. Meyer's last championship team in Florida ranked No. 1 in net points per value drive in 2008.

1. Michigan State Spartans (6-6)

The Spartans faithful may have been slightly spoiled by back-to-back double-digit winning seasons in 2010 and 2011, and a step backward in 2012 was to be expected after heavy personnel losses in key positions. But no fan base could have prepared itself for dealing with so many games slipping right through their fingers. Michigan State limped home to a .500 record overall and a 3-5 Big Ten conference record. The combined margin of defeat in those five conference games was a mere 13 points.

The defense was outstanding throughout the season, holding opponents to only 1.2 points per drive (seventh-fewest nationally), 273 yards per game (fourth-fewest nationally) and forcing three-and-outs on 46.5 percent of opponent possessions (third-best nationally). Getting opponents off the field quickly often leads to field position advantages, but MSU's anemic offense and inconsistent special teams couldn't capitalize. The Big Ten Legends division is well within reach next year if the Spartans can find even a little bit more production on offense.

3. Michigan Wolverines (8-4)

Michigan was on the lucky side of the equation last year, which was why we had identified them as a top candidate to regress in 2012. The schedule was as brutal as predicted: Michigan lost four times to teams with a combined record of 46-4, and the two losses to undefeated Notre Dame and Ohio State came by only 12 points combined. The Wolverines lost the turnover battle in both of those games (minus-6), costing Michigan 19.3 points of scoreboard value, according to our game splits analysis. Turnovers were the big boost for the Wolverines in the first year of the Brady Hoke era, and they were the critical factor preventing Michigan from turning in another double-digit winning season this year.

Michigan's defensive success has been strong in each of the last two years, ranking among the top-20 in opponent-adjusted defensive efficiency. The Wolverines were especially effective in limiting opponent big plays, giving up an "explosive drive" (possession that average at least 10 yards per play) on only 3.4 percent of opponent drives, the second-best rate in the nation behind Notre Dame.

Ohio State's band SLAUGHTERED Michigan's band. If this were a football game, it would have been Florida State vs. Savannah State. - SB Nation following OSU vs. UM 2012 
 

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cdsperr on 12 Dec 2012 - 2:36pm #

Let me get this straight....

Us playing poorly against Purdue and winning classifies us as "lucky" in their equation. Us losing our star QB in the middle of the 3rd quarter after he busted open a 40 yard run has no impact on being "unlucky". Great analysis there ESPN. 

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CincyOSU on 12 Dec 2012 - 2:44pm #

Once again, this was NOT an ESPN article. The opinions(its actually a formula) come from Football Outsiders...ESPN occasionally uses their analysis in CFB and the NFL.

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cdsperr on 12 Dec 2012 - 2:51pm #

Great formula and analysis "Football Outsiders" which ESPN has used on its front page. Better?

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d5k on 12 Dec 2012 - 3:08pm #

Football outsiders is currently an exclusive partner of ESPN so it is fair to call it an ESPN article.  I think you were pre-emptively overreacting to the potential of anti-media reaction to something that is completely obvious: OSU won more actual games than their play on the field would lead one to expect statistically.

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jaggs on 12 Dec 2012 - 3:16pm #

http://mgoblog.com/diaries/luckiest-teams-2012

MGoBlog does a similar study every year. OSU came 2nd this year. A reminder, you may disagree with the methadology, but these are stats taken from a third party and are not opinion based. They aren't there to slam OSU or reassure Michigan fans that they were just 'unlucky.' Feel free to come up with a different metric if you don't like the Football Outsiders. Also, at the end of the day, who really cares?

tennbuckeye19's picture
tennbuckeye19 on 12 Dec 2012 - 3:22pm #

I don't care if someone thinks OSU was lucky or if some metric says that OSU is the luckiest team. Big deal. OSU won every game on their schedule, and only 1 other team can claim that in all of college football (right now at least). Did it take some luck, well yeah. But a sign of a good team is that they find ways to win. OSU found ways to win every week. End of story.

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