PHONE'S RINGING -- IT'S URBAN ON THE LINE
Heart goes out to all these families today. What the hell is happening.....
Thoughts and prayers go out to those families
Buckeye till I'm dead
The Principal and the school Psychologist were killed................That wasn't just random...I think that initself was done so the families and the children involved would have fewer resources to be able to recover........Just horrible..........God Bless those poor families
Battles are sometimes won by generals; wars are nearly always won by sergeants and privates. Football is no different, the guys down in the trenches win the games, not the coach.
Days like today that I hate that I work at a TV station...
My thoughts and prayers go out to all affected in CT...
Right with you Dan.
Sick to my stomach. I pray that something happens to stop this madness. God bless these children and families.
Tough times never last, tough people do
Always turning the guns on themselves too. Look, if you are unwell and don't want or can't or don't seek the help you need and this is the only way to solve whatever problems are troubling you and you know how things are going to end for you, just do it and leave innocent people out of it.
4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off
Exactly. If taking your life is the answer to solving your life problems, fine, do that, but don't drag innocents down with you.
Here's the story. I'm sure more will be coming out on this tragedy. Please no up/down voting on this out of resepct.
How does this still happen? I thought every school had a police officer(retired or off duty) assigned to it.
"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.
All it takes is one disturbed with a gun and a public place for disaster to happen. A horrifying thought, but something we have been witness to over and over again.
Class of 2010
I hope it never reaches the point where we have a police officer in every school. Schools have become more like prisons than a place of learning and nurturing for young minds. How easy is it to learn in a place where you walk through metal detectors and see armed guards walking around?
Ehh like I said above, my high school had two cops on duty during school hours and it didn't bother me at all.
I don't see too much of a problem with having one police officer assigned to a school. In the world we live in today, it is necessary.
My high school had 8-10 cops on duty every day I was there. If anyone is putting some false idea of privacy over safety of a school, it just doesn't make sense.
8-10? Was it a large school?
Decently sized, but mainly just dangerous
What school if you don't mind my asking?
I'd rather not throw the name around in this circumstance, but I went to school in the Akron Public School district
High School is different though because at the high school level the cops are there as much for a student losing it as someone intruding. At the elementary level I would assume that a 10 year old wouldn't do that.
I've had ten year olds tell me that if someone messes with them, and I quote, "my dad said it's ok to kill them."
Think of it like nuclear bombs. They don't get used, and yet we have programs that constantly draw enough money to creat enough weaponry to destroy the world hundreds of times over. Truthfully, they aren't there to be used. They're a contingency. If the same axiom has to be applied to security people in schools, it's a necessary evil if it keeps kids safe.
I get what your saying it's just that there will never be the same kind of security at an elementary school as there will be at a high school. Especially in small towns, I didn't go to elementary school in a small town but a Detroit suburb and there was no security at all for elementary school. On the other hand I got to high school and there were 10-15 security guards manning the place now these weren't cops by any means but you get my point.
I get that, I'm just saying maybe that should be something that gets considered on a national scale
I have two kids and absolutely zero problem with the school having an armed security guard or police officer on duty during school hours.
Proud parent of a Senior at The Ohio State University
I know my school never had a police officer and neither did the schools near me. Heck our school never even had security.
Not in small towns. They can barely afford a police force and teachers, let alone additional personnel. Most towns outside big cities don't even have a police force- they rely on the State Police to come investigate anything that happens.
Newtown is in CT and maybe has 30,000 people or so. I'd bet their police force is around 60 officers. That means 20 per shift (three 8-hour shifts), but they don't all work seven days a week, so its more like about 14 when you account for enough shifts to give people days off. Maybe 4-6 of those people work at HQ. That leaves about 8-10 officers patrolling the entire town, minus any who have to appear in court that day, at any given time.
When you get down to it, relying on police to protect you isn't a good idea. Start doing the math and even in larger cities you find out really quickly that the odds of an officer being in the right place at the right time are slim to none.
I have no idea what the answer is, and this probably isn't the forum to try to come up with one or argue one. Just saying that everybody needs to be aware of the danger and take whatever steps you feel are appropriate to protect you and yours.
My prayers to the families in this horrible time. I'm sure there is nothing I can say or do that makes today even a little less horrible for them, but if I could I would. God bless.
Many small schools don't have them. And even the ones that do, they don't carry guns, so they wouldn't be much more help against an armed madman than the gym teacher.
Man...I don't even have words. Life is such a precious thing. Days like this remind me of that. And I am reminded of the horrible things we humans are capable of doing to one another...
everything takes a back seat today. cant wait to hug my 8yr old when i pick him up today.
I dont know karate but i do know crazy and i'm not afraid to use it.
Prayers with the families and staff
"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly,
while bad people will find a way around the laws." - Plato
No where is safe anymore. What is this world coming too?
Honestly? The world's been always like this. We just have the internet now.
From our own Ramzy.
Apparently CNN didn't care. Ratings override common sense.
It's amazing that no matter how much advice news publications are given on how to handle situations like this, they will do the exact opposite of what that forensic psychologist has recommended so that they can gain ratings. As sick and twisted as this may sound, it's almost like they pray for days like this so that they can up their ratings for their own personal greed. Stupid f%@#ing media.
Thoughts and prayers go out to those affected by this though.
When I was last in Ohio visiting family I went with my brother to pick up his little boys from school, the youngest being in kindergarten. Most of the shootings happened in a kindergarten classroom. Hits WAY too close to home for me and everyone out there who's a parent or has young family members. The horror those families must be feeling right now is incomprehensible. All their worst nightmares are coming true. Please pray and send them good thoughts. They need them more than ever.
When does this end?
"Sherman ran an option play right through the south" - Greatest.Civil.War.Analogy.Ever
Just mind boggling. Will hug my kiddos extra hard later.
This literally brought me to tears. Thoughts with the families and victims
Wayne Woodrow Hayes
This tragedy (and too many more like it) is the result of a lack of proper, national attention to mental health and permitting handguns to be legally possessed by anybody, other than law enforcement professionals.
Vermont has the least strict gun laws in the entire United States. They also have the least amount of gun aggrevated violence. Meanwhile Illinois has the same law you are refrring to where it is illegal to posses a hand gun unless you are a law enforcemnt officer. Illinois is one of the highest in the United States for Gun aggrevated violence. I understand where you are coming from, but you forget that most aggrevated gun violence comes from guns that are purchased illegaly. So that in turn means that the people that should have guns to protect them selves don't and the people that don't need them just buy them on the street like they always have and the violence continues. end rant
(edit) my thoughts and prayers go out to the families hurt by this tragedy. Sad thing.
I'm not going to debate about this topic as a whole...but comparing Vermont to Illinois? Really? Vermont as a state has less population than the city of Columbus and the city of Burlington (Vermont's largest at 42,000 or so) isn't exactly apples to apples with Chicago. I'm not taking a side one way or another, but that's about as fallacious of an argument as I've ever heard. It's logically similar to saying something like we have superior shark protection measures in Ohio because we have less shark attacks than Florida even though they spend more money on lifeguards and shark watch monitoring.
That's possibly one of the worst stances on gun control I've ever seen. I really didn't want to delve in a discussion on this, but are you really so naive to think that guns are the problem? Rampant crime in the UK since their 1997 Handgun ban act speaks to this. Monaco has a highly armed populace, that does have a stringent licensing process not unlike CCW processes in the US, and they have a non-existent crime rate. Swiss males undergo national guard training and are then armed by their government. Their crime rate is the 2nd lowest in Europe, only to Monaco's. Guns aren't the problem, people are.
I mean Hell, crimes involving handguns have gun UP in the UK since their handgun ban: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1440764.stm
Leaving aside your obviously false assertion about handguns (Not just anyone can have them, there are vast swaths of the populace that are not allowed to own any firearm at all), do you support the mass, involuntary comittment, at state expense, of anyone who doesn't fit perfectly into society's norms, or says things that might be construed as a violent threat? Because, fundamentally, that's the path you're advocating: locking people of for comitting the crime of being mentally off.
All of you just stop. Something terrible happened today. Debate it on another site when the wound isn't still covered in fresh blood.
Thoughts and prayers go out to the families and victims. I'm pretty sure my wife picked ours up from school early because she was so upset. Absolute tragedy.
I disagree with OP, I need stuff like this on days like today. Now that I have my own child in elementry school this stuff hits way to close to home. Like everyone else I worry about my own, my country, and just where in hell this world is going and wtf is up with people.
I can leave CNN.com with a huge lump in my throat and come here and read about our Buckeye ballers, escape for a minute, and in a way that helps normal people like me deal with something like this that doesnt directly affect them but is affects them none the less.
I'm an elementary school PE teacher and I can't imagine what those people are going through. Realistically schools (elementary in particular) are the most at risk for events like this. The majority of middle and high schools in my area have armed resource officers, the elementary schools do not. I personally feel safe at my school, but I still believe EVERY SCHOOL IN AMERICA should have an armed resource officer on duty at all times.
Prayers are going out for the families, teachers, and students.
I totally agree with you about armed officers. Our kids, above everything else, should be protected.
Two essential elements of American society that used to be methodical and boring: Finance and the delivery of news.
Both are now purposefully "exciting" and not coincidentally, holistically destructive.
I can't agree with this more. True story, news programs used to be a loss leader for broadcast networks. That's sure as hell not the case today, once we figured out how to make cash off it, it's efficacy started to dwindle.
Couldn't agree more. It's become a deliberate attempt to increase notoriety and that has, regrettably, caused for a TMZ type atmosphere in regards to the news.
I really want to agree with your underlying point.
No question, news reporting was more methodical during past eras. In the (somewhat romanticized) heyday of objective journalism - I don't know, roughly from 1910s(?) to 1970s(?) - reporters tended to be more workmanlike, have higher standards of sourcing, etc.
On the other hand, the newspapers (or "broadsheets") of the early American republic tended not to be so responsible - they were often highly partisan, with very interested agendas.
And, of course, "sensationalism" is not a new phenomenon - see: "yellow journalism" of the Gilded Age and Progressive Era.
But your point is definitely taken.
The 1910's were the heyday of Hearst's empire, and the aforementioned "Yellow Journalism"; hardly objective if you ask me. I'd say that the real heyday--at least its zenith--of objective journalism was probably the 1950s-70s: from Murrow to Cronkite, the Red Scare to Watergrate, you just can't beat that era.
But, again, that's when television news was a network's loss leader.
I coached a boy, G.J. Kinne whose dad was shot by an angry parent. G.J. ended up coming to Gilmer ISD where I worked because the family of the guy who shot his dad was STILL threatening his dad and G.J. It got so bad that we had to hire extra police to come to games. The boy and his family were terrorized by this. It seemed like the family of the shooter had more rights than the victim!
No handguns, no semi-autos & lots more effort on identifying and treating the mentally ill.
do you really think that will solve the problem? and, people that are that mentally ill - there's no help. they're just wired differently. they can't hug their way out of their F'd up mind problems
We need to put more financial resources into mental health.
what money, though? country's bankrupt and still spending out of it's a$$. young people feel like they have no hope for their future. failed leadership
Friday was another example of the fact that there is good, and there is evil in this world. The 20 year old man who did this was pure evil. There was no amount of counseling that could have helped him. I just wish the loser who did this would not have involved innocent people and children in his scenario. It wasn't their fault he was a weird wacko loser. And, yes, the media is guilty of sensationalizing the hings that these losers do.
You don't know that, this is the kind of cynical attitude that leads to things like this happening.
Totally prevent, no, but it would help make this happen much less. Do you have a better idea than just throwing your hands up?
Why am I not surprised that Ramzy can jump in here and in 2 sentences say exactly what I have been thinking for 5 years but have not had the right words to say.
If your first reaction to this story is "here comes the gun control debate", then you fucking suck as a human being.
I don't know how a tragedy can get much worse than this. I hope the families can eventually find peace, unlikely as that may be.
Its a shame, and having two little ones, I couldnt imagine something like this happening. Prayers go out to the families and parents who are left wondering why this happened.
Pay It Forward!
Know your feeling... I had "two little ones" when 9/11 happened. Sad day indeed.
Completely senseless. I'll hug my daughter tighter today and pray for those lost and their families.
With the information coming out on this, it hits much closer to home for me than just being a father of a 6 year old girl. Both of my parents were teachers. I shared them both with their students, and through that I formed many great bonds and friendships that have lasted throughout my lifetime. I used to tutor my moms students. Never once did I resent, harbor ill will towards or have thoughts of violence against them. Granted, I don't know this kids psychological make up or relationship with his mother. But these are children...in terms of life experience they are still babies. I can't for the life me understand why someone would take their anger, frustration and issues out on someone so young. I know their are sick people in this world. But 6 year olds? Whose only transgression against you is that they came to school this morning? There are no good reasons for something like this to take place. And the real reason may never be known. But if it comes down to this being his main logic, its far more tragic than I already believe it to be. My prayers are with the families of the adults lost, the parents of the children lost, and to the children whose memory this will forever be burned into having borne witness to these events. It is truly a sad and tragic day for everyone involved.
Mods, I encourage you to delete this thread. The best that it could do would be to offer condolences to the families of the victims, but I am certain these families are beyond the comforts of a football message board. The more likely outcome is already upon us, comfortable arguments from people whose minds won't change one way or the other. Frankly, I fear this thread trivializes the real grief of the people whose lives were shattered today.
Kids. F***ing kids. I don't think there's anything that could possibly make me more angry/frustrated. I can't even imagine what is going on with the families and community.
It really hurt my heart when I thought about how the families probably have gifts under the tree or a celebration planned for their respective religions. I went from sadness to anger as well.
That someone would do this to elementary kids is almost beyond comprehension to me. My gut level feelings are harrowing sadness and seething anger, but it's mixed with a sense of disturbed bewilderment.
None of this sports stuff does matter in the grand scheme of things, but I do agree with what someone said above about this site (outside of this thread) being a temporary distraction from the f'd up things going on in this world. My thoughts and prayers are with all of the families out there who were affected by this...I can't even imagine.
Class of 2010.
As a buckeye in CT this is a horrible selfish act. The first thing I did when I got home today was grab my boys (3years and 6months) and not let them go. Makes me think of home schooling them.
I worked in security for a long time....what ultimately will be needed is some sort of external security (not a window or a button to buzz folks in) A person to check folks out before they get into a building.Its unimaginable to me to think that someone would be able to come into my son's school armed with 4 weapons and just start shooting at will
may this f_ck be continuously re-incarnated as a blow fly for eternity.
Horrible situation, that I can't understand. Very sad. I feel so bad for those affected.
If this punk hadn't offed himself, I'm sure billions of people across the World would line up for a chance to throw a stone at his head.
I'm glad I don't understand
, it's when you do that should go get help. My thoughts and prayers are with families that are in pain.
Its so sad to hear about this. It's scary and a bit alarming that shootings like these are happening more and more frequently. The families are in my thoughts
"Love my State, hate the football"
Anyone that pushes an agenda or their views either way in the wake of this is a morbid piece of crap. There will be a time and a place to argue gun control but not today. The parents of these kids have to go home tonight and see pictures of their babies or maybe their Christmas presents sitting under the tree, the last thing they want to hear is a argument about gun control. Let the families grieve.
A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men
I grieve for these families. I'm home now, watching the Lorax with my kids, feeling especially blessed to even have them.
Hug your kids or those you love extra hard tonight. These moments are fleeting and precious.
~Because we couldn't go for three~
I actually came here hoping to see a thread like this. I found out about it when my wife called me while driving. I was so upset I nearly had to pull over. Mass shootings are f--ked up enough. A mass shooting of small children is beyond comprehension.
This is going to take a long time for me to wrap my head around. This is truly saddening, killing pretty much the most defenseless people on the planet is about as low as you can sink. I don't know what this guy's motivation was and quite honestly I don't care, this is one of the most cowardly acts of violence I've ever seen.
This is really troubling that these things keep happening, and the way that some of the news stations reported on it really pissed me off. I couldn't believe it when one of the reporters actually asked the gun control question and then had the audacity to be taken aback when the guy basically told him to fuck off. It's disgusting that mere hours after something like this happens people already are trying to make it a political debate. It was also embarrassing to see the the media trying to be so quick to the gun on blaming someone that they incorrectly reported the name and then linked to the facebook of a person completely unrelated to this leading to thousands of people mindlessly harrassing him
Everything about what happened today infuriates me, so I'm just going to stop typing about this before I make my head explode
I'm so sorry that anyone has to go through something like this. It's not fair, and those people never had a chance to live their lives. I'm so upset that someone thinks they have the right to take that away from them. How dare they. He's adversley affected so many people and for what. how dare you. I'm going to call my immediate family to tell them i love them.
Unless you work in clinical psychology, please don't think "well people are just messed up that's that end of story". it's not black and white. there are so many factors, and people who do get help can get better. who are you to judge if they are capable of changing their rationale or not? everyone is different and some people cannot be helped. that's a fact, but my hope is that people have an outlet to communicate in an appropriate manner before taking actions into their own hands. im sorry for all those victims, families and friends. ill pray for them
I like football
after hearing that kids were interviewed as much as i want to turn on the tv to find more info about the situation im happy i haven't supported those news outlets that decided to interview bystanders and witnesses.
It's been absolutely inexcusable. There's been little or no value added when it comes to actually learning what happened, it's just emotional pornography and exploitation.
The most "loud mouth, disrespect" poster on 11W.
I read many of the above comments and would like to include my heartfelt condolences for everybody involved. It has to be an absolutely terrible time, surreal and miserable. I have a sadness in my very core today.
As for the gun discussion above, do we or do we not honor the Constitution of the United States? In two landmark decisions in 2008 and 2010, the US Supreme Court overturned Washington DC and Chicago handgun bans, citing them as unconstitutional in regards to the 2nd amendment. I for one believe that the Constitution is mostly for the good of the people- the 4th, 5th and 6th amendments in particular at least made a concerted effort to prevent "We the People" from insufferable oppression. I also believe that the 2nd amendment has its place, because if guns are outlawed, then the normal person will not have them, but the normal criminal WILL. That's an even worse scenario.
If I could talk politics here, I would love to discuss it. I find it to be probably the most fascinating political debate topics you can have.
I am a teacher and a soon to be father, but this is not the place for comments on this. A third of the comments here are skirting on the gun control issue which is political and thus violating one of the major tenants of 11w. I am not sure why this entire post has not been deleted, but please end the commenting on this issue.
Yes, I know it is ironic that I am commenting to ask to stop commenting.
Yup. This. I think everyone has good intentions, but it's way too fragile of a subject for a sports board that steers the ship away from discussions like this. I encourage people to talk about this, but this not the appropriate place for said topic.
As an aside, and Not to take anything away from the tragedy that happened yesterday, but What about the innocent victims being gunned down in the inner city streets of Chicago, Detroit, and Columbus- along with many others? Are not their lives just as important as those innocent children who were mercilessly gunned down at that elementary school? I pray that we take into account all life because it truly is beautiful and precious.
All labor that uplifts humanity has dignity and importance and should be undertaken with painstaking excellence. ~Martin Luther King, Jr.
You have a point but too soon.
Yeah I guess you are right but I am seriously upset that children are dying everyday because of either non-sense or people that have not learned how to deal with or cope with their problems. I apologize if I seemed insensitive with my post.
My Buckeye friends I think we can all agree on the fact that our hearts are deeply saddened by this trajedy - and our thoughts and prayers are with these families who have to deal with unspeakable hurt and loss just two weeks before Christmas. We pray for healing for these families and for this town and school system.
I have so many different emotions. Angry and sad. I'm not afraid that the world is going to end next week. I'm afraid that nothing is going to change. These kids never even got to live their life. RIP.
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