I started this as a reply on another post but I would like to solicit your opinions. Basically to make me feel better. I'll start by saying I think our O will be scary assuming Hyde comes back. I think we get a lot better next year on O. Some people on this board seem to think our D will be nasty next year. I'm not so confident.
Everything below is written with my National Championship glasses on. I think it goes without saying the D will be good, but will they be dominant?
At a high level I think D-Line Should be great, our D Backs Could be great and our LB's after RDS are average at best?
DBs:
My objective assessment of our db's is that we had great talent but were out of position more than I would like. With 7 gone and Roby maybe gone where are we really? Eli, Cam and co should be great but as freshman? I would say equal to this year at best if Roby goes. If Roby stays we're looking better.
Backers:
RDS is nasty but who will step up to fill the other 2? There was a time when we just put the next guy in and he turned out to be Kat or James L. or Hawk or Homan or Roll etc. That wasn't the case this year and I'm not sure who it will be next year. I thought for sure C Grant would at least be playing like RDS 2 years ago by now. He couldn't make the field, that is scary to me. Perry looks good but he was mostly in playing as a stand up end a la N. Williams. I would say we are about equal to this year at best.
D Line:
I'm pretty confident in the D line but look at reality. Basically the entire D-line is gone. Sure the freshmen got meaningful minutes but what huge plays did the underclassment make? They definitely played well but generally it was all Simon, Hankins, Goebel and Williams. The talent is freaky but that is an upperclassment position. Even J. Clowney didn't dominate as a freshman. Can we really expect freshman to be at a National Championship level? I have huge hopes for Bosa and company but where are guys like Steve Miller? I only noticed (I'm sure he played more) Miller in on a couple plays this year. Michael Bennett had meaningful minutes but honestly, do we really think Bennett, Miller, Schutt, Washington, and Spence are better than Simon, Hankins, Goebel and Williams? At best I think we are equal. That said equal to this D line is pretty good but I could see us taking a step back.
I'm curious about the D-line. Alot of veteran guys leaving with newbies replacing them. Alot of talent there though.
Linebackers are another curious case..Shazier is the only one that can play as far as we know. Need a couple guys to step up..my money's on Perry and Wiliams or Roberts.
The secondary will be experienced with alot of returning starters and veterans but it still got torched quite abit this year against average/below average teams. Bryant can be a big time player if he plays alittle more diciplined. Roby coming back is huge! Barnett needs to step it up and Grant is an unknown pretty much.
All in all I think they could be a top 20 defense as long as the D-line lives up to the recruiting hype.
Run_Fido's favorite word is strawman.
I think Perkins is actually the guy to step up... Of course not at MLB, but he is built just like Shazier and runs a 4.4. He is a freakish athlete.
I would take 3 RDSs and call it a day :)
Perkins will be battling Perry and Marcus at Sam I'm sure. Alot of unknowns at this point though.
Run_Fido's favorite word is strawman.
Don't overthink it yet... A lot of these freshman need another year in Coach Mick's strength and conditioning program. Plus, Spence, Pittman, Washington, and Schutt are raw talent that can be developed over the next year. We will be very deep too, so I see us being pretty good. They will simplify the schemes for the young guys and just tell the d-line to get the football.
On the LB front... I'm not sure. A lot could depend on if we end up with Mitchell and Johnson in this class... I think overall speed and talent will be fine... Experience will be the issue, but we also have a soft schedule so we could be ok.
The offense will put up enough points to allow our defense to learn and catch up to game speed throughout the year.
I agree, with the offense we will have we should be fine for a while. Hopefully the defense clicks BEFORE the northwestern game (scares me) and we can ride them to the NC game. then with bowl practices we should have a much more balanced team.
The offense should be soo good (hopefully) that if we don't have a great defense it won't matter too much.
Run_Fido's favorite word is strawman.
For as long as we run the no-huddle spread, I think our defense is going to look a lot like Oregon's has these past few years. In other words, not all that different from this year. There will be games where we'll dominate teams 56-10, but we'll also be winning some games 49-35. It's not going to be a typical Ohio State defense when it's on the field every two minutes, simple as that. I think some games are going to again make us queasy at how many yards and points we're giving up, but all that'll matter on those days will be the W.
But at the end of the year, you'll look at the stats and see a fringe-top 25, top 30 unit that was good enough to beat most, if not all teams in the Big Ten. Whether this defense will be championship-caliber, well... Oregon's haven't been. I'm hoping the extra juice Ohio State gets in recruiting from not being Oregon and being a real blue-blood will be enough to put us over the championship hump that the Ducks haven't crossed yet.
The North remembers.
I agree with you on this coming year... The years after that I don't. Urban and the staff are building a deep SEC style defense. I could see a point where we are rotating 8-10 solid d-linemen in and out and probably 6 solid LBs. The secondary will be tough in the coming years too. I think next year we score enough points to beat everyone and give up our fair share. The year after, we will score a lot of points and dominate on defense.
I don't know, I just think teams with high scoring offenses are prone to giving up alot of points defensively..just seems to be the way it goes. I think the main reason is because your defense is on the field more. Not that it can't happen but seems to be the norm.
Run_Fido's favorite word is strawman.
Yeah, I'll believe it when I see it. No one has yet figured out how to pair the no huddle with a truly dominant defense, but if anyone can, it's Urban. Still, I wouldn't get my hopes up. I think Urban and the staff believe they can win 11 or more games a year in this Big Ten by simply outscoring everyone. They're probably correct. It'll work here, but will it work against someone like Alabama or LSU, or even Florida in the national championship game? We'll see.
The North remembers.
Urban ran the spread and had a dominant D at UF. He can do it again at OSU. It will be 3 years of recruiting before we saw the product but it will happen. When Spence is a junior we will have a dominant team on both sides of the ball.
He ran the spread, but he didn't run the no huddle. Big difference.
The North remembers.
I mean.. kind of. The Buckeyes averaged a higher TOP than opponents for the season and just 20seconds/game less than last year. It's not like drives are suddenly that much shorter because of the no-huddle. It's a situational thing anyway - as Urban has said, he gives the "green light" for top speed sparingly.
Right. Time of Possession isn't that important of a stat. (As it turns out Alabama averages 31:49 time of possession compared to Ohio State's 30:07.) More important is limiting the number of plays your defense has to defend. The best ways to limit this is win the turn-over battle, pick up first downs on offense, and prevent the other team from picking up first downs. The Ohio State offense picked up about the same amount of first downs as Alabama's did, but Alabama surrendered fewer turn overs on offense, forced several more turnovers on defense, and surrendered far fewer first downs (13.5/game for Alabama compared to 18.2/game for Ohio State). The end result is that a defense that is only about 1.0 per play better than Ohio State surrenders far fewer yards during a game because they have defend fewer plays.
Brutus, that is a good stat. I think the real key would be the number of first downs per possession. I haven't looked it up yet, but I would imagine quicker-paced offensive teams (Oregon, any Mike Leach or Gus Malzahn team) would produce games with more like 13 or 14 possessions rather than Alabama's typical 11-12. Do you have those figures by any chance?
^ Your first paragraph is spot on I think.
Run_Fido's favorite word is strawman.
I think the defense is gonna be the big question next year. IMO how they play is gonna reflect big on how good the position coaches we have are. Here's my breakdown
DBs: This will be our stength next year especially returning both our safetys in Bryant and Barnett. I would say theres a 70% shot Roby comes back which is big and with Doran Grant at the other corner. If Roby leaves this unit won't be as strong as I thought but with him coming back this is the best group. Also Corey Brown has some experience in the STAR position
LBs: This is my position of concern. Shazier is obviously the strength. But like a lot of you pointed out there is going to be a lot of questions for who steps up in the SAM and MIKE. Williams, Perry, Grant, Perkins, Marcus, and Crowell or if we get a JUCO will all battle it out for both spots. Part of me isn't worrying cuz we played so much of a 4-2-5 defense last year.
D-Line: This position is where I think Vrabel can really make a name for himself as a position coach. We have so much potential at this position but no one is proven yet. Schutt and Washington are going to be animals inside at DTs, also have Hale and Carter. Keep and eye on Hill and Price too if they don't move him to Oline. Bennett, Spence, Miller, and Moore will be our ends. I looks for Bosa to push for some early PT as well as Sprinkle to be an underrated guy coming in.
The defense improved through the year while the offense continued to run no huddle. Ross Fulton posted a great piece here last week addressing both the failures and improvements of the defense, and managed to do so persuasively without mentioning no huddle. Good players + good coaching = good defense, and I don't care what kind of offense you run.
Regarding next year's D:
DBs: Roby is key. If he comes back, we're better. If he doesn't, we're not.
LBs: Definitely a potential problem. RSD + ??? Between Curtis Grant and the '12 class, we've got plenty of candidates, but somebody --actually a couple somebodies-- needs to step up.
DL: Hard to lose your entire starting line up and expect to be better the next season, and I don't. Certainly not early. Still, I was really impressed with Washington, and think he'll be a great one. Spence will have another year under his belt, and Michael Bennet has flashed before. By the end of the year, this D line could turn into something special.
Sure it's easy to say that, but teams that score 50 points a game RARELY have dominant defenses that only give up 8-10 ppg. Elite defenses usually count on ball control, clock burning, field position battle, etc. Tressel, Saban and Miles are great examples of that.
Run_Fido's favorite word is strawman.
The reason that Oregon and other high octane offense minded teams typically have poor defenses is because the focus of their recruiting efforts are on the offensive side of the ball.
There is something to be said for ball control offense allowing the D to rest but that insinuates that under a no huddle a team automatically loses time of possession. This is not necessarily the case.
In college football, conditioning discrepancies play more of a factor than in the NFL. Therefore, the fact that the Buckeye D has the benefit of such an outstanding strength and conditioning coach, and is used to playing uptempo is significant.
Further, as evidenced against Penn State and Scum, no huddle doesn't mean Brax has to snap the ball with 15 seconds left on the play clock. The O can slow things down when needed.
The defensive improved, sure. But I wouldn't consider it a classic Ohio State defense by any stretch of the imagination. If it were a Tressel defense, it would have been considered an abomination, and rightfully so.
The North remembers.
As Ross said in his season defensive breakdown, if Roby comes back the Silver Bullets should be ok. Roby's ability to help support the run and to take away the opposition's top receiver were critical to OSU's defense turning it around after the Indiana game and we will most certainly need that in 2013. The other crucial point will obviously be how the replacements at LB respond. We get the caliber of play reminiscent of Boren, Sabino and Nate Williams the D could be elite top 5 in the country without question. None of the youngsters or 2013 LB recruits stepup we could be worse than last season. It is the No. 1 reason why you see Coach Meyer out trying to lock down LBs. All the more reason to hope we get a Trey Johnson or Mike Mitchell in addition to the JUCO transfer mentioned recently, Tommy Sanders. If this year freshmen LBs can improve and take some of the heat off RDS so he can wreak havoc, the defense SHOULD be good. Of course, we thought the D would be good heading into this season and look what happened early on.
"Sherman ran an option play right through the south" - Greatest.Civil.War.Analogy.Ever
The d-line may have lost a lot of experience but it's a much better pass rushing unit this year and that's what urban expects out of his d-line. And let's be honest the linebackers aren't getting any worse. We had backer problems because storm Klein would lose a 40 to Brady hoke, another off season of experience is just what they need.
1) Clowney was named the SEC Freshman of the Year so you were wrong about him not being an immediate stud. That being said, Clowney is a once in every 5 year talent at that position.
2) Bennett, Spence, Washington, and Moore all saw significant playing time this year. The line was better when Bennett especially was playing. I see all three of them being very starters next year. Moore is a solid rotational player that people forget about. We just need two or three lineman to step up and play well. I think you're spot on that we might see a decrease in quality, but I think the potential is there for a better pass rush. Remember Williams ended up seeing a lot of time at LB. It's hard to replace the run stuffing effect of Hankins.
3) Out of all the commits I would expect Bosa to be the most ready to come in and get playing time. The guy is about maxed out on his physicality and went to a high school that is a college factory. I've seen Billy Price play and I really think he is one of our most underrated recruits.
4) I'm not as worried about our LBs as others are. Josh Perry played very well in his limited minutes last year and we are going to have a lot of competition from guys that have been in the program for a year now. Meyer couldn't let the LBs exercise their demons on the field this year, but they have 9 months to get better. Also our schedule is so weak that I think the unit's deficiencies will go unnoticed.
5) The secondary can only improve. I think Roby stays considering he could be an easy top 10 pick next year. Grant looked really good. Not a ton of depth, but a lot of experience was gained this year in that unit.
Conference freshman of the year does not equal dominant. That was my point. This year he was really good. Dominant is Suh's last year.
I'm confident we could run the table in the B1G, but man watching Lacy and Yeldon truck everyone in their paths really makes me wonder if we could hang for four quarters, our d-backs are going to have to step up for run support which opens up the pass game for guys like Cyrus Jones (I want to make Cyrus eat crow soooo freakin bad).
I've got the bar set at: "Can we beat a complete team like 'Bama?" And I think everyone else should too. We won't be getting a crystal ball anytime soon if we can't. As of right now, I need to see some serious improvement in our LB core and overall tackling for me to be confident in our D to sustain a title run.
"I'm One Bad Buckeye, and I approve this message."
Fortunately we won't play tsun, Alabama (or any other highly ranked team) until the end of the season if all goes well. That will give our young guys spring, camp, and 11 games of the season to learn their positions and come together as a team before they have to play those huge games. I'm looking forward to seeing how this plays out and what our "re-loaded "D looks like.
I think they can be close to that level, the tackling and sound defensive play calling are a given. Dont discount the fact if we're in the national title game that OSU will be playing with a chip on its shoulder with something to prove. I'm also not of belief Bama will be back next year, especially if Saban bolts for the NFL again. My guess is A&M or Florida. I hope it's Florida so we can pay them back for the Gator Bowl and to take that crap school down a notch.
"Sherman ran an option play right through the south" - Greatest.Civil.War.Analogy.Ever
I'm not super concerned because the first 13 games are gonna be a giant team building exercise, like with trust falls and stuff. Since the offense will average about 60 points a game in the regular season, the D has a really long time to catch up, and the schedule will only bolster their confidence. I just hope they are ready by January. Nuff said.
I think the defense will be fine. There are spots that will need to be filled but believe that Urban is bringing in soon to be unprecidented talent to this program on the defense and we should not be worried about much soon.
With superstars like Shazier, Roby, Spence and Washington still going to be on the defense I'm sure it will be fine. Throw in seasoned starters Bennett, Bryant and Barnett, that is 7 of 11 that should have no concerns. So really those 4 positions (1 dline, 2 LB and 1 CB) have talent and some experience with Doran Grant, Tommy Schutt, Corey Brown (STAR in place of LB) and Curtis Grant. Add in all the unexperienced talent behind all that: Woodard, Burrows, Conley, Najee Murray, Perkins, Marcus, Pittman, Reeves, Perry, Roberts, Bosa, Tyquan and possibly Mitchell and Johnson, among others. Those are pretty much all 4* or better.
I'm just not that concerned with a pretty light schedule early! I think the defense will come around.
My hope is that the talent that is lost from this year's defense can be neutralized by the following things:
1. Improved scheme from the start. Throughout the course of the year, the Fickell and company's playcalling and schemes improved. Still a bit too much soft coverage for my liking, but that's just nitpicking. Can't complain about the results after the Indiana debacle.
2. These young guys develop - both in Mick's conditioning and in spring and summer camps. They better work hard and be ready to play. Curtis Grant needs to step it up, especially. Hopefully Urban has one of those offseason conversations with him that he had with the likes of Kenny Guiton and Rod
JonesSmith.3. Offense gets even more lethal this year. It sure would give the defense some margin for error. As much as it's hard to complain about the overall results of the O, there were still some times where it struggled and there's still room for improvement. Scary.
I have faith that the defensive line will be strong, defensive backs will be good, and linebackers will be able to figure out something to be at least pretty good. This defense may not be dominant, but with this offense, I feel that it can be good enough to get it done.
Class of 2010.
I thought Washington played the best and made the most impact when he was in the game; think he made a huge sack in the Scum game
Depending on who declares for the draft I am pretty confident. We should have a healthy competition at LB for next season. It may take a few games to settle the rotation but once set the D should be rock solid. We had a lot of injuries on the D Line this season so our young guys have been tested. I am not too worried about that group.