Dear 11W Community,
I let my emotions get the better of me yesterday (for those involved, you know the thread). I have been coming to this site for almost a year, and a big reason why was I didn't have to deal with people who couldn't type English or form a coherent thought. I don't know if perhaps new users are here or if I missed something as I have not been on the site as frequently due to work and other areas of life. Anyway, I still stand by many of the points I made before the name-calling ensued. The thread, to me at least, is a sign of why so many hate our fanbase...refusal to acknowledge facts, some suspect English/typing, misquoting, general arrogance, etc. I'm not saying it's horrible or a complete representation of the OSU fanbase, but that was not something I had typically experienced with users here. However, it is apparent by the almighty upvote/downvote system that that is precisely what is here in some users, which is fine. I'm not looking to alter the mindset of any Buckeye fan. So I received probably 100 downvotes for voicing a differing opinion on a former player (God forbid I don't idolize a 23 year old guy, right?) and stating facts. I was also frustrated with the "quoting" of phrases that were simply made up. I wanted to apologize to all of those I may have offended with my comments, there are admittedly probably too many to name. Staff, feel free to banhammer me or whatever, but I'm not sure how much I will visit this site if the replies to my comments were the norm. Maybe it was an aberration, I don't know. 99% of the people I've interacted with on here have been great, but I guess I don't share the "I have to root for every player to ever don a Buckeye uniform" mentality. Maybe that's the only difference. Either way, there's no excuse for the childish name-calling, and for that I'm sorry.
Buckeye76BHop...I'm with you man.
The content is still great, but either the "2%ers" are much more frequent here in the comments or I missed something (completely possible). If this doesn't apply to some, then disregard and enjoy your time on the site. Take care guys, and hopefully I'll be back around B1G tourney time for some roundball discussion.
I agreed with some of your points. Here are some generalities on how I look at the sort of situation that arose:
1. You're right that it's not a good idea (if you care about the upvote crap) to criticize an idol of the under-25 year old fan base.
2. I was fine with your criticisms of TP - I thought he reflected badly on tOSU and do not want to look like the U or some trashy program.
3. Continuing to argue doesn't get you anywhere; moreover, the quoting each other thing is terribly boring and, again, won't get you anywhere.
Truth, Love, and a Happy New Year to you and to all who love the scarlet and gray.
Please don't generalize. I was one of the largest critics of Tressel and Pryor on that topic, and I fit in that age group.
We do have something in common
I have zero idea what this is in reference to; however, you can't please everyone.
100% of unprayed prayers go unanswered
Never seen the thread , but feel ya. I don't quite understand the distain for grammar and spelling. There have been many times, I myself have misspelled words in the excitement of a post, or a quick response from a device.
This site, these forums, are about our love for a University and its programs, it is not a class they teach.
Go Bucks!
Who is idolizing? No one said you had to, nor did anyone say they idolized TP. They wished him well. They hoped he played well. Nowhere NEAR idolizing in my eyes. People make mistakes. I still wish my friends, family, even ex-Buckeyes well despite the mistakes they make, and I hope they still wish me well when I inevitably screw up. In fact, I'm so imperfect I NEED people to forgive and forget.
Troy Smith did a selfish thing and brought a slight mark on the OSU program, and look how he turned things around and unselfish he became. And now he's listed amongst the greatest of Buckeyes. Who's to say TP isn't/can't do(ing) the same (changing and growing up)?
Sorry for this, but I feel it's pretty arrogant to judge others so vehemently as to not wish them well. Just my opinion.
Anyway, upvote for you for at least apoligizing for name-calling.
Ditto avail... could not said this anybetter.
I purposely avoided commenting on the Pryor thread and just read the comments.
I think where you went wrong was that you kept going with your comments, knowing a large majority of people on the thread disagreed with what you were saying. If you would've just given it a rest, you wouldn't have had such a backlash. You are fully entitled to express your opinion on here, and I don't disagree with some of your thoughts on Pryor, but sometimes you just gotta leave well enough alone.
But your line of logic goes against what most if us come here for: debate of sports information. I think the voting system has really ruined this. And on top of that, we now have more posts that contain zero content and are either picture posts that try to get upvotes or posts complaining about down votes (all of which I down vote). I could not care less about the voting system, but do feel that it has seriously distracted the community.
You're right, but I never said sports debate wasn't what we all come here for. And I agree that the voting system has made it tough to actually debate and express differing views. My point is that you can express your opinion all you want, as you should, but it is dumb to continue to comment and argue when the overwhelming majority disagrees with you. It's pointless. I don't mind people who disagree with me or who have dissenting opinions, but to carry on is silly. And being mean while carrying on is even worse.
The problem with the posters who won't quit is that they think that it is about them - which is a self-fulfilling prophecy, because, eventually, it does become about them.
I completely disagree. With that mentality, we'd still think the earth was flat.
Okay. That's fine. But we're talking about football. We're not talking about life or death stuff here. I don't carry around that mentality everywhere. But on a message board on a fan site, it's not worth it to me to get in arguments.
Yea. Perhaps a bad analogy but you got the point. I'm not exactly of that mentality here either, but it is frustrating to see people bring up good points and new insights that are contrarian and them watch them get beat up for it. And then you have high level dick jokes that get upvotes to oblivion.
I'm here for the collegial atmosphere and the high-level dick jokes
Taquitos.
Yee haaaaaa!
Sometimes it's easier to stay away from threads you don't agree with. And when that's not the right option for you due to a passion for a stance on a topic, just be careful how you word it. I have been able to disagree in threads without being downvoted back to the stone age. It's all about tact.
My only gripe is that it got so mean that I felt compelled to stay away from that thread.
I believe the OP is frustrated because he does not see disagreeing as a reason to be downvoted back to the stone age, something I completely 100% agree with. Lots of small minded talking head stuff going on lately, and I agree that perhaps the best way to avoid it is to avoid posting or even reading the site at all. If that's what it takes, then it's a sad day.
"It is a man's own mind, not his enemy or foe, that lures him to evil ways." - Buddha
It wasn't disagreeing that got him downvotes, it was being a jerk. The commenting policy clearly says, "don't be a jerk." Thus, that is exactly what downvotes were intended for.
I agree, but for some people the line between what it means to disagree and being jerk is razor thin if it even exists at all. Having a minority opinion does not make you wrong, dumb, or a jerk by itself.
"It is a man's own mind, not his enemy or foe, that lures him to evil ways." - Buddha
Did you read the forum at all? There is most certainly a line, be it fuzzy or otherwise. There is a line, and it was crossed, apologized for, and amended, but not before damage was done.
"I suggest going back to English class for several here to learn to read fully."
"people can't deal with facts on this forum. What a joke."
"The idiots on this forum make me want to leave"
"You're sounding like the idiots of our fan base who just believed everything gene smith spoon fed you."
Actually, I didn't. I think there are probably better uses of my time than to go read a thread full of people bitching back and forth at each other. My comments were based on instances I have seen in other threads, so I could relate to the OP. I have no doubts lines were crossed, I see it on here everyday, and I wish there was a little more accountability and a little less Internet tough guy syndrome sometimes. Just my 2 cents
"It is a man's own mind, not his enemy or foe, that lures him to evil ways." - Buddha
that's just the point, though. People on the internet know that they don't have to have accountability, and that's why we get these internet tough guys. It's an inherent side effect
+1
I think it was you that had a good comment in another thread saying something along the lines of "sometimes you just have to let people have their opinions" and I can't even put into words how much I agree with that.
It's the folks who can't let others have their own views and have to constantly tell them they're wrong and "correct" other people seemingly at every turn that drive me absolutely bonkers.
I saw the thread and didn't comment/downvote or anything but I'm not sure anyone was using facts... just opinions, which is why this site is so great because people can express their opinions and maybe people are more worried about that now w/ the whole Up/Down votes. You obviously don't like TP for what he did to the university while others including myself are happy for the 3 BCS appearances and 2 MVPS he won in those games as well as continuing excellence on the field. It's not like these players murdered anyone or were shooting up heroin, they sold their OWN merchandise for $$ as any college student would who needed the money. I mean, is it really such a bad thing? Had they not done that we would still have Tressel (which I like) but most likely Bollman too (which me don't like) as well as no Urban renewal... I think the loss of a season even if we went undefeated will all workout in the end. What if Urban goes on to win 2 or 3 national titles at OSU in 10 years?? You'll be thanking TP.
But really just keep it cool on here, come for the info, chat every now and then if you've come acrossed anything interesting, have a question or concern etc, realize people form differences of opinions but just remember we're all Buckeyes, even the scUm fans and other trolls who create SNs just to keep in touch w/ OSU sports no need for fellow bucks to insult each other.
I see some generalizations above Red...but understand your point. I have been coming here since 2009...starting commenting and made an account last year. Since last year...there are a lot more individuals coming here that they have to throw around opinions or their point of view and think it should be the same for everyone IMHO (and others who have been here like to "attack" opinions as opposed to making good conversation by intellectually playing devils advocate. Or the, I'm right and you're wrong ppl). To say that TP had an "era" and on and on is a joke (they tend to forget about the host of WRs as well as Beanie...who kind of helped. Not to mention he made OSU look like cheaters and CRAP no matter how you look at it). You just have to let people have their opinion and move on....trust me...it's hard sometimes when the door of unintelligence is SOOOO wide open. Don't let some here get the better of you...it's a shame we're saying this about people who love the same football team we do. You'd think they'd just let bygones be bygones, let people have their "opinion" and move on (but as you've obviously noticed...that's not the case). Happy New Years and GET WASTED everyone (you too Red...that always helps with the comments and such here ;-) GO BUCKS!
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."
"I love football. I think it is most wonderful game in world and I despise to lose."
Woody Hayes 1913 - 1987
Bhop - What is your fascination with blaming all of OSU's ills on TP? You act like it was ONLY Pryor who committed misdeeds. Do you hold such hate for Tressell? For Posey or Herron? They ALL played an equal part in OSU not being in a bowl game this year. Time and time again you point out Pryor's mistakes while at OSU or make excuses for the success he had(like his skill had nothing to do with it). Perhaps the reason many keep "attacking" you and Red, is that YOU are the ones that can't let an argument go as you yourself said "just let bygones be bygones, let people have their "opinion" and move on". Instead, you keep chiming in with biased opinions when perhaps you should have taken you own advice and just moved on.
The problem isn't difference in opinion, it's how that difference is delivered. I got a couple downvotes on my opinions about Tressel and Pryor, but I also got 7 upvotes. Mostly because I never tell people they are idiots, or personally attack their intelligence or things like that. Then when several comments follow with sarcasm and continued talking down at other people, you'll end up with 100 downvotes.
That's just my 2 cents. I feel like in general the upvote/downvote system works pretty well. I do think people misuse downvotes at times. I also think that there are a lot of similarities between then instances that people just get bombed with downvotes.
Yep. And rightfully so I would say. I hadn't actually read the thread the OP was referencing until about 10 minutes ago and I could clearly see why people were angry with him. Not because of his opinion, but because of the way he was essentially saying "if you don't agree with me, you're an idiot!". That attitude will floor people quicker than just about anything.
nailed it Albert!!!
It's not what you say but how you say it. If you disagree but say it well you can expect a handful of down votes. If you say it in a negative or degrading way you'll get... Well what you got.
Commendable that you'd apologize, but when you start addressing those who "refus[e] to acknowledge facts", etc. you're not doing yourself any favors in making an apology. Especially:
Let bygones be bygones. It's the internet, for christ's sake. No need to keep the topic/animosity going.
Taquitos.
Cannot help noticing that the substantive comment from the guy who likes dick jokes concerns Pryor!!!
Nothing in my comment concerned Pryor. You're projecting.
Taquitos.
If the condom fits .....
So Pryor is mentioned 100 times in the thread, but the guy with the dick jokes is indignant that I made a dick joke about his dick jokes??
High brow/low bow/high brow???
I don't think anyone understands your point
Well, let's see, hmmm:
the guy with the dick jokes is indignant that I made a dick joke about his dick jokes
Like a brick
Is that a dick joke?
Like a rock.
ELE!
"Love my State, hate the football"
I honestly thought there was nothing wrong with his comments at all. A dissenting opinion for sure, but there's no reason to apologize for standing by your beliefs in a civil way. Honestly it's a very okay idea to have, everyone just hates negative opinions, even if they do add to the discussion. Much like Reddit, if you post something that differs from the community/mob mentality, you will get downvoted. It's a sad consequence of any content voting system.
Again, nothing was civil.
Take my comment, for example. I displayed a similar opinion, and even showed my lack of respect for Jim Tressel. But I did so in a thought out, and open-minded way. I recieved no downvotes for that post, at last check.
I mean I read his first few greyest out short posts and they seemed quip-y but civil. I may be misinformed though.
read further, there was undoubtedly more that goes against commenting policy than just differing opinion.
Listen up idiots. I still love/hate both JT and TP. I wish the best/worst for them both. OSU is a better/worse place for having them.
Yeah that's right, THAT just happened.
Applause dot gif dot forever
Taquitos.
Thank you. I'll be here all week.
Tressel/Pryor: our Rorschach test.
Taquitos.
The problem many have, Redstorm, is the selective memory that yourself and the other vocal TP haters seem to use. On one hand you point out his losses, poking fun at how he(as if it was only Pryor who played bad that day) lost to a team that we should have beaten(upsets DO happen in CFB), yet you overlook the big games he won. You like to point out he is "solely" responsible for OSU not being in a bowl game and throw insults his way and wish that his NFL career go in the toilet....all the while you still adore Tressell and the other players involved in scandal as if their actions played no part in the bowl ban.
I don't recall Tressell wearing Michael Vick eye black.
Image means something to me, and if you want TP to represent Ohio State, you and I want very different things. It was a mistake to sell our souls to get Pryor to Ohio State. I think it hurt the brand name and it hurt the wholesome image I would like the University to represent. Maybe he's a good person, but that is not the issue, nor is the issue that others had a part in the tat debacle. Pryor is not bigger than the Ohio State, and he did not appear to realize that which is why I don't like him, and why I think the idolizers out there are sooo farrrr off base
But what about Tressel? In a way, he's worse. He's a repeat offender, at Ohio State. He is as much a part of the environment that destroys that "wholesome image" as anyone else.
I believed all his aw shucks, I love Jesus stuff. So Tressell is like Fredo to me ... he broke my heart.
I heard someone on the radio say that Jim Tressel was like Warden Norton in Shawshank. It was a bit extreme but I think more accurate than many of us want to admit. I do believe he's a good man, and believed in a lot of what he said. I also believe there are politicians who believe in their ideals, but when they take the job they find out really quick they have to get a little dirty to get things done. It's the same with college coaching. No one is pure and does everything by the book when they are recruiting and running a major college sports program. I always laugh when fans of one base ridicule fans from another base about the kind of kids they recruit.
EVERY program in every big revenue sport has players who are cheating in school(some of the guys can't even get a coherent sentence out of their mouths, no way they are passing college level class). These coaches are complete dictators, there's no way you can't tell me they don't know stuff that's going on. No way Tressel's players were spending that much time at a tatoo parlor and he didn't know about it. No way Derek Rose had someone else take the SAT for him and Calipari didn't know about. These guys have a job to do, WIN. Win and you get money flowing into the program from donors and boosters and everyone is happy. Tressel did it, a lot, and in games that mattered, THE GAME. He and many of us believed he was untouchable and we see where it got him.
But Tressell covered up the actions and lied to the NCAA about said player who wore Michael Vick eye black. You don't to like Pryor, but if that is how you feel, you certainly should not like Tressell or any of the other players involved in OSU's scandal. It's just funny how some ppl attempt to single out TP like he is the ONLY reason OSU got into trouble.
I don't recall eye black ever being relevant to anything ever, but that's beside the point.
Not appearing (in your eyes) to realize that he wasn't bigger than Ohio State? That's laughable, at best. Here we sit, on the internet, devouring news and information about a bunch of 19 year olds -- and then we get mad when a few of them don't appear (from the other side of the lens) to live up to our absurd moralistic expectations.
Image means something to me, too. I do want TP to represent Ohio State -- just like I want Mo C to represent Ohio State, and I want Andy Groom to represent Ohio State, and want my sophomore roommates to represent Ohio state, and I want to personally represent Ohio State -- more specifically the opportunity for growth that it can provide. Clarett has come around -- with continued support from those within and around the university community. That's still a possibility with Pryor. But he made nice innocent Jimmy T go away, so to hell with Pryor, right?
As an aside, universities aren't "wholesome", unless you completely gloss over half of what happens on and around campus. To want an image that they are is pining for a false representation.
Taquitos.
I'm reading that the folks who are ripping Pryor are ripping Tressell too.
I think it's become increasingly tedious to read about the "19 year old decision maker" theme that has become an all too convenient way to avoid any value judgments in our society which appears to hold nonjudgmentalism as the ultimate quality. I don't give a d*mn about Clarett's rehab or think he is deserving of anything from the University. Not "to hell with him", but more like let's not waste resources on the slow sellers, let's put the best sellers on the aisle!'
As a partially related issue, I will tell you that I have no problem choosing favoites whether they are 18 years old or not. I like kids who work hard, say the right things about the team and follow the rules. Call me old and crazy, but I'll save my good wishes for T Smith & Krenzl!!
Troy Smith took money from a booster while at OSU and was arrested in 2011.
Taquitos.
No dick joke??
What's funny to me is people will stick up for a guy like Ray Small and say, ONCE A BUCKEYE ALWAYS A BUCKEYE. People are more forgiving of Mo C who people still bag on Ohio State about. Other guys have had DUI's, Drug, and domestic violence charges(which are all more significant than anything TP ever did) and people love and respect them still. Hell the once a year or so that Schlicther is in the news for something else people pray that he can get past his personal problems because they hate to see a Buckeye struggle.
TP is far from the worst representative of the school. I always liked him, I didn't like what happened, and wasn't sad he left the program. I also loved Tressel, but I'd argue he did more damage to perception of the program than TP. Can't write books about integrity and then get caught lying and covering up for ineligible players. Doesn't matter what the circumstances were, that looks worse than Michael Vick eye black.
Wait, people stick up for Ray Small?
Someone stuck up for Ray Small?
Small and Clarett are in the meanest category of guys who for profit or spite, deliberately intended to besmirch tOSU.
Pryor and Schlichter are in less offensive category of men who cared more about themselves than the tOSU.
I'd like to meet them.
"You'll be proud of our young people in the classroom, in the community, and most especially in 310 days in Ann Arbor, Michigan on the football field."
I gave up on the thread cause I can't take the senseless bickering and back and forth name calling. I come here to talk football and have fun with fellow fans. I have no problem with differing opinions cause that's life but don't have time for the other nonsense. Kudos to you for apologizing, it's not an easy thing to do, but a better person you are for it when realizing your mistake.
Time heals all wounds.
Who talks about Art any longer? Could have gone very bad with his gambling habits.
Who the f#*& cares abt downvotes. Wow I'm here to read n comment abt ohio st football who cares who I offend or who down votes me
O'Deez330
stark county football
So........ how many days until the season starts? SMH
Far, far too many
242 days... far too many.
Nothing like dancing on the field in 02...
I thought the site clean up its grammar with the departure of osu4life!
Wherever you are, there you be!
We only have one rule around here......
RedStorm - I was on that thread. I even suggested after reading all the comments that name-calling was not the best way to debate dissenting opinions...
Our (mine & your) opinions on the matter differed & I'm cool with that. I was unhappy about TP for a while, but 2012 was a good year & in my mind the things that happened all led to a brighter day so any animosity I held for TP or anyone involved in the issues of 2011 are gone. I wish TP & all involved well. In the scheme of things, what they all did was fairly minor. Maybe that's wrong to forgive people simply because what they did led to good things but that's where I'm at - right or wrong...There were several comments by people who felt like you but they went about communicating them a little differently. I tend to stay away from downvoting as much as possible but I have downvoted when things get crazy & people turn to insisting that others are dumb because they see things differently. Downvoting over simple differences of opinion is pretty silly IMHO. It's good of you to apologize even if somewhat angrily. I personally have no ill-will toward you or anyone on this sight. We're all here because we all love the same thing which is why I come here at least once daily...
Anyways, bygones are bygones. Happy New Years to you & yours & here's to a 2013 that's even better than 2012. Go Bucks!...Now anybody got any dick jokes?
The world is full of kings & queens who'll blind your eyes & steal your dreams - it's heaven & hell - Ronnie James Dio.
Denny told me an ass joke, but it was a dirty crack
I don't post much on this site, but have always enjoyed the differing opinions and insight from fellow Buckeye fans. However, recently some of the childish bs and name calling, etc seems to be getting a bit out of hand.
I just hope in the New Year we can share ideas and thoughts in a civilized manner so I can waste even more time at work than in 2012 obsessing over tOSU.
Go Bucks!
"For those who believe, no explanation is necessary; for those who do not believe, no explanation will suffice." (Source: Memorable-Quotes.com)
Not sure tht this exactly fits, but it's early and I'm still tired
And finally, one should be careful to disinguish between facts and opinion:
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.
John Adams, 'Argument in Defense of the Soldiers in the Boston Massacre Trials,' December 1770
Summary of this thread
Damn, I missed a good dustup.
living in Minnesota, that Timberwolves GIF made me spit up some coffee....
After reading this entire thread, I realized.......
An angry fan...rooting for an angry team...led by angry coaches