UNC "ACADEMIC" scandal - and this will outrage no one

By Optimistic Buck... -20 December 2012
42 Comments
- Football

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/12/20/3737889/martin-report-suspec...

Buckpocalypse on 20 Dec 2012 - 12:28pm #

No wonder the SEC is so lustily viewing them as an expansion target.

Scarlet_Buckeye on 20 Dec 2012 - 12:46pm #

#SEC #SEC #SEC #SEC !!!!

ShowThemOhiosHere on 20 Dec 2012 - 12:41pm #

Yeah because it's not like they traded their own goods for tattoos or got paid for appearances or overpaid for summer jobs or anything horrible like that. It's just a university ensuring that their athletes get good grades so that they stay eligible. That's all.

Class of 2010.

DMcDougal24 on 20 Dec 2012 - 1:01pm #

it's turning a sham system into a sham! If that makes any sense..

GoBucks713 on 20 Dec 2012 - 1:33pm #

Wow. Just wow.

-The Aristocrats!

Maestro on 20 Dec 2012 - 1:44pm #

That is outrageous.

vacuuming sucks

Optimistic Buck... on 20 Dec 2012 - 1:50pm #

I wonder if we could show that other people traded their own personal items for tatoos and cash? (.....thinks about the concept.....light bulb flicks on....Eureka, a pawn shop!!!.....ends up more confused)

ShowThemOhiosHere on 20 Dec 2012 - 1:53pm #

We'd sure find out what the "outrage" was about then, wouldn't we?

Class of 2010.

ShowThemOhiosHere on 20 Dec 2012 - 1:52pm #

Just an "academic" scandal...I LOL'd at that in the article.

Class of 2010.

Maestro on 20 Dec 2012 - 1:53pm #

I guarantee you that any teacher/professor/educator who hears about any of this will actually be outraged, but you are right Joe Schmoe won't bat an eye.

vacuuming sucks

Optimistic Buck... on 20 Dec 2012 - 1:57pm #

BUT TRESSEL LIED TO THE NCAA!!!!! (about something that fell under a client confidentiality agreement....an actual law)

bassplayer7770 on 20 Dec 2012 - 2:00pm #

Don't forget he also rigged raffles. ;-p

CincyOSU on 20 Dec 2012 - 2:05pm #

Lets be honest here...Tressel(and I love the guy) did not lie to protect his players, he lied to protect his season. If you listen to the NCAA depostion where he talks about why he did not report what he knew its pretty hard to believe.

And I agree the raffle thing was BS.

TBDBITLinWIScantSON on 20 Dec 2012 - 2:00pm #

If I recall correctly, the NCAA stated they had no jurisdiction, or governance, over this issue. But they wielded power supreme over the PSU scandal. What a circus.

GoBucks713 on 20 Dec 2012 - 2:56pm #

I think that's because the stuff was going on in athletic facilities and the head coach and AD helped cover it up. That may have something to do with it.

-The Aristocrats!

GoBucks713 on 20 Dec 2012 - 5:28pm #

I'm pretty sure I have a serial downvoter

-The Aristocrats!

ShowThemOhiosHere on 20 Dec 2012 - 5:56pm #

Yeah, there seems to be a lot of that going on around here. I normally don't worry about it, and I'm not going to worry if I get like one or two, but it is getting kind of ridiculous.

Class of 2010.

btalbert25 on 20 Dec 2012 - 6:20pm #

Yep, sadly, something that was supposed to enhance the 11W experience is becoming ridiulously stupid. People are getting downvotes for saying nothing offensive. I've seen downvotes where people are just mentioning the staff talked to a recruit, or someone was planning a visit.

I've noticed an uptick in douchebaggery too. Sadly, I think 11W has grown too big to police this stuff any longer. It seems the comment sections have been getting more and more ridiculous lately.

popeurban on 20 Dec 2012 - 6:28pm #

I mentioned this in another thread and the downvotes came out like crazy. Last I cheked I had 14 upvotes and 10 down. I thought the staff would police this by "zapping" their stickers? Maybe you are right ans the community is just too big.

EvanstonBuckeye on 20 Dec 2012 - 2:05pm #

A scandal regarding student-athletes that is not an athletic scandal? Good. So the NCAA can duck out of the conversation and possible sanctions. It's nice when colleges like Miami and UNC can police themselves, so that the powers that be can keep tinkering with the football playoff system.

Kiley2418 on 20 Dec 2012 - 3:05pm #

lmao unc will never leave for the sec

without duke.... its basketball first in carolina!!!

Riggins on 20 Dec 2012 - 3:10pm #

The ACC is going to fold. It's not that hard to find room for Duke twice on the out of conference basketball schedule if they end up in different conferences.

Kiley2418 on 20 Dec 2012 - 3:21pm #

have to see it to believe it sorry..... big 12 will fold before the acc

Maestro on 20 Dec 2012 - 3:25pm #

Based on what info?

vacuuming sucks

Unky Buck on 20 Dec 2012 - 3:39pm #

I think he's saying this more on the stability of each conference. Regardless of the quality of each conference's television deal/network, if you look at the Big 12 and ACC from a togetherness aspect, the Big 12 is rather divided and probably more susceptible to collapsing.

I tend to think, though, that it depends on what conference makes the next move. If the Pac-12 decides to further it's expansion next, you could see Oklahoma and Oklahoma St. off to the Pac-12, leaving you with 9 teams. That could set off a whirlwind of teams bolting for other conferences at that point. If the B1G or SEC decide to go hunting, the ACC could be in trouble due to geographics. Since the B1G and SEC both have 14 teams currently, I think the Pac-12 is the next to act to "catch up" to the other 2...but that's purely my opinion.

Unky Buck on 20 Dec 2012 - 5:03pm #

Somone really loves the Big 12 I guess...appears to be systematic downvoting of anything relating to the Big 12 possibly dissolving...

Or just systematic downvoting for what appears to be every other post...weird

Maestro on 20 Dec 2012 - 5:09pm #

It is pretty ridiculous.

I am of the opinion that the ACC is in bigger trouble than the Big XII though. Clemson, FSU, UVA, VT, Miami, GT all have varying sized targets on their backs from the B1G, Big XII and SEC.

vacuuming sucks

Unky Buck on 20 Dec 2012 - 5:27pm #

Oh, I can definitely see that. Like I said, it's a matter of what conference decides to expand again next. Right now is the Pac-12's chance because if the Big 12 solidifies itself, the Pac-12 would be expanding at the cost of not really upgrading their product. And if the Big 12 solidifies itself, it's doing so at the cost of the ACC. But regardless of how anyone thinks expansion will go, we all have to think one of the two will definitely be gone within a few years. There is no way both will be around.

Maestro on 20 Dec 2012 - 6:20pm #

The Pac is in an interesting spot. That don't want anything to do with Boise or Texas Tech. I doubt BYU interests them much. OU, Texas and OK State are options, but with the TV money in the Big XII right now it doesn't make much sense for OU or OK State to bolt. So where else do they turn if they want to be part of the "super-conference" future? New Mexico? Fresno? Colorado State?

vacuuming sucks

otrain2416 on 20 Dec 2012 - 3:28pm #

We'll technically they lied to the NCAA about their players actually taking classes

Unky Buck on 20 Dec 2012 - 3:31pm #

I do like how they were seemingly brushing it off as a "this isn't really THAT big of a deal..." kind of thing. Of course having student athletes migrate to African and Afro-American studies courses, allow them not to partake in classes since they didn't really exist sans a paper that had to be turned in at the end of the semester, basically do nothing in an independent study course, and falsify grades to keep them eligible is not really that big of a deal. Why would it be? We all make mistakes...who hasn't allowed their student athletes to cheat for the better part of 13 years or more?

Run_Fido_Run on 20 Dec 2012 - 4:22pm #

I'm trying to get my head around the logic of the following principle outlined in bold (from the above linked story):

The review found 216 courses with proven or potential problems, the report said, and included 454 suspected unauthorized grade changes. It said, however, that the problems represent an academic scandal, “not an athletic scandal.”

How do they separate an academic from an athletic scandal when the scandal involves student-athletes?

Doesn't that suggest that the kids have dual-identities depending on what they're doing at a given moment? That they're purely 100-percent athletes when they're practicing, playing in games, training, eating at training table, in basketball/football meetings, etc.; whereas they're purely 100-percent students when they're (not) going to class, taking (or cheating on) tests, (not) studying, (watching as a tutor is) writing their papers, etc.?

Before entering college, student-athletes must meet minimum NCAA academic requirements, which are partly determined by an objective standard of academic competency (SAT/ACT tests) to accept a scholarship to participate in an NCAA sport offered by the university. Otherwise, a university might get a competitive advantage by lowering their academic standards.

After admission, student-athletes must maintain progress toward graduation while on scholarship; however, once in the system, academic progress is defined without any reference to a standard of academic competency (any b.s. coursework is fine if the university says it's legit). At that point, lowering of academic standards is strictly an academic matter that provides no competitive advantage. Hmmm, I'm confused. The reason for this apparent inconsistency is that it's up to university's to handle the academic side . . . well, except for when it's not up to them.

Can anyone help me?

Veraton on 20 Dec 2012 - 4:49pm #

I understand the confusion and it is definitely warrented. I think the university is trying to say it's an academic issue due to the fact that all students benefited or recieved advantages from the 216 problem courses not just athletes. If it was purely an athletic scandal then athletes would recieve preferential treatment in said class while ordinary students would not.

Considering the classes were two-third's athletes they are going to have a hard time selling that it is just an academic scandal and not a athletic scandal as it's pretty clear the classes were made easy specifically for athletes even though some ordinary students took advantage of them.

Optimistic Buck... on 20 Dec 2012 - 5:02pm #

It's going to a harder sell considering this is now common knowledge and has been printed. We know that athletes were specifically targeted for enrollment in these classes.

Much of the scandal has centered on how the classes were used by the university’s academic support program for athletes.....

....and other documents obtained by the N&O show Nyang’oro worked with the support program to make them available to athletes

Run_Fido_Run on 20 Dec 2012 - 5:08pm #

But then why wouldn't that argument invalidate pre-entrance requirements? Say a university allows 10-12 academically-below-standard football players into a class, but also accepts 10-12 non athletes with similar academic credentials, and then argues that non-athletes also benefited from these advantages - hence, not an athletic competitive advantage under those terms.

Jugdish on 20 Dec 2012 - 5:10pm #

Many of these classes did not meet. How can you say it was opened to all students? The primary reason for these classes was to keep athletes capable of playing sports just as buying uniforms, selling tickets, hiring coaches, etc. This makes it an athletic problem and not an academic problem. Somehow Gee and Smith think they are highly respected by the NCAA, but in reality, they must be despised beyond belief.

Unky Buck on 20 Dec 2012 - 5:58pm #

I might be missing something, but how did Gee and Smith make their way into an argument about the academic improprietes involving UNC?

Jugdish on 20 Dec 2012 - 8:51pm #

Unky, my comment was too short without explanation. There are so many other schools getting off lightly for their wrong doings. I am assuming that they have personnel who have more clout with the NCAA than OSU. Early on, Buckeye Nation was led to believe that Gee and Smith had close connections with NCAA. Smith especially since he had served on committees with the NCAA that involved violations of other universities. All of Buckeye Nation and Urban got blindsided by the punishment handed down by the NCAA. I believe Urban was guaranteed by Smith that there would be no further punishment. Urban in turn had to explain the situation to the new recruits. Thanks to Urban, all the recruits believed in him and the OSU.

Unky Buck on 20 Dec 2012 - 11:33pm #

Ahh...that makes a lot more sense! Thanks for the clarification.

As for the idea, I can definitely see some validity behind that. More so on Gee and Smith not holding as much clout as they thought. Schools like UNC and Miami (particularly them being repeat offenders) probably don't either and maybe these issues deal with more of a grander scale than what OSU had to deal with. Four hundred and some odd cases of improprieties (although many can't be considered due to their time frame) and nearly a third of a football team getting handouts from some sleazeball as opposed to 5 guys getting free tattoos for memorabilia and 3 guys for lying about their summer jobs. It may be naive thinking but it at least seems reasonable to me.