Asiantii Woulard (#1 dual threat QB according to ESPN - which I know isn't the best ranking) won the Elite 11 and just decommitted from USF (see ESPN article linked below). While I don't put a ton of stock in ESPN I do think that Trent Dilfer knows QBs well so the Elite 11 has a lot of meaning to me. With JT Barrett's injury, does the staff take a look at this kid and possibly offer? Seems like we have more spots in this class and I don't like the idea of relying on a QB with such a serious injury.
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/recruiting/football/story/_/id/8702977...
Don't think they do. We have four QBs on scholarship next year, so the need isn't there. Also, Barrett was #1 dual-threat QB on 247 before his injury so we are getting a very good player
Just concerned about that type of injury. I also think that his ranking dropped significantly before his injury, he competed in Elite 11 against this guy and wasn't as impressive. Barrett's numbers weren't exactly spectacular this year (although I realize TX competition is pretty tough).
Also, he is a consensus 4 star (247, ESPN and Scout) and is ranked higher than JT Barrett on all of the recruiting services. He has only played QB for 2 years so seems like he has high upside. Doesn't have too many offers for some reason though. Anyone know about this guy, maybe off field issues that explain his lack of offers?
Highly doubtful. As DMC mentioned above, we have plenty of depth and Barrett is our man. The ACL injury is not something to mess around with, but his recovery pace is really good right now, so no worries.
Writer at http://www.landgrantholyland.com
Well hopefully he has the same type of
bionic knee installedrecovery that Adrian Peterson had.He doesn't really need the same type of recovery. He won't be called on to possibly play for several years, so he should take his time and get fully healed. He'll certainly be fine.
Drew Barker is the next QB at Ohio State after Braxton.
First off...don't sleep on JT, he won't have to play next year bc. Kenny G will be the back up or two years due to Brax360. Second...don't sleep on OSU getting Barker and/or Kizer for 2014. The kid took his team (TCC) to the third game in the Ohio state playoffs last year as a Sophomore and won the DII state title this year as a Junior. IMHO...it would be a crying shame if OSU and Meyer let him go to tTUN or the other tTUN!
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."
"I love football. I think it is most wonderful game in world and I despise to lose."
Woody Hayes 1913 - 1987
Toledo Central Catholic runs the spread. Kizer likes to run the ball. He takes most snaps five yards behind the center. He's not cHoke's type of QB to run the I formation. Besides, cHoke's in love with Shane Morris, as all Wolver-weenie fans are. He's perfect for them. Any QB that St. Ignatius stopped cold is worthy of playing in that town up north.
Go look who's recruiting Kizer besides OSU...don't be surprised if he goes to either one of those teams up north if Urban can get Barker and stops going after Kizer. I really hope that doesn't happen...I don't see OSU getting the kid from GA who's committed to Clemson. IF that happens...Kizer will be second choice or even third. We can speculate all we want...but personally...I want Kizer and Barker.
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."
"I love football. I think it is most wonderful game in world and I despise to lose."
Woody Hayes 1913 - 1987
Think 2014 QB recruiting with hopefully Barker is more on the staffs mind.
I'm not so quick to say no exactly..Urban has stated several time publicly that he likes to go after QBs because at the high school level the are typically the best playmakers. Obviously a player ranked as the #1 dual-threat QB in the nation is going to want some serious consideration at that postion. However, I have learned in this short amount of time to never underestimate one Urban F. Meyer!!
“Right now, Michigan is not at the pinnacle of college football, and that’s all Urban Meyer cares about...He’s been there and knows what it takes to get there.”
This kid played WR as frosh and soph and at 6"4 200, he might translate into good college WR or safety. But, as the #1 rated Dual Threat QB he is probably going to want assurances that he would be playing QB.
Remember, he was only ranked number one by ESPN, and they blow. 247's top rated dual threat is JT Barrett, and with respect to correlation, Elite 11 doesn't say a lot.
Thats a very good point. I guess what I think is that he just has more of a reciever type build. And our coaches have said repeatedly they are not happy with our passing game. So I dont think he would be out of the question. Especially if he has an accurate arm. With Urban's history of placing talent into the NFL maybe this kid is willing to at least 'entertain' the idea of switching to WR. I say it is at least possible.
“Right now, Michigan is not at the pinnacle of college football, and that’s all Urban Meyer cares about...He’s been there and knows what it takes to get there.”
His offer sheet isn't nearly as impressive as Barrett's. Again, maybe that's because he only played QB for two years, but I trust college coaches more than Dilfer at this point, and I do think he knows what he's talking about.
I wouldn't cheer for Michigan if they were playing the Taliban.
Barrett was doing leg workouts 2 weeks after surgery hell be good to go by summer wasnt as bad as previous thought looking to far into the injury. Number of spots per sanctions will hold us to 1qb recruit per year for now. We have Barrett and either 1a) Watson who is tops on Urbans board or 1b) Barker who is no slouch. Days are gone where Tressel recruits the Joe Bausermans of the world to be future QB's. Also we forget that Urban got Cam Newton when Tebow was a soph dont think everyone realizes how good Urban is at recognizing QB's that fit the system and made Alex Smith get picked wayyyyy ahead of Aaron Rodgers who is the GOAT at QB. Of all the positions (admittingly Brantley was the only mistake) Urbans track record speaks for itself at identifying talent for the leader of his offense.
Rodgers is good, but at this point in his career he isn't the GOAT...
Sorry Urban, Woody is still my favorite
That's true. I wish we would just offer Barker already so we could get the class rolling. I think momentum would be key if we get that group that wants to play together. Big 3 linebackers makes it more likely Hand will commit.
Saying that Rodgers is the greatest of all time was a joke, right? Bradshaw, Montana, Unitas, Graham, Staubach, Tarkenton, Brady, Young and the Manning brothers are/were better than Rodgers. I mean I could probably list another 5 QBs that are/were better than him.
Peyton is better, Eli is not. I think Eli Manning is way overrated because he does well on the big stage in cluch situations. Granted, I also despise the man's character for the shit he pulled in San Diego on draft day.
2 rings to 1 ring. Discuss?
If Peyton had the Giants defense in Indy he would have more than one ring. If Eli had the Colts D in New York he would have no rings.
"Attack the Strong, Trample the Weak, Hurdle the Dead!"
-Former OSU S&C Coach Lichter
If Montana didn't have Rice, would anyone know his name? You can play the shoulda, woulda, coulda, all day long. A mediocre QB could have won with the Cowboys in the 90's or the Pats in 00's. But you have what you have.
Oyster: my point is that a great QB can overcome his teams weaknesses and a less than great QB can hide his shortcomings behind a strong team.
A mediocre QB would have won with the Pats in the 00's? I don't think the Pats would have won a single Super Bowl with Drew Bledsoe staying healthy. Brady made that team great.
"Attack the Strong, Trample the Weak, Hurdle the Dead!"
-Former OSU S&C Coach Lichter
703, What are you talking about? The Giants defense was turrible last year. The Giants won that Super Bowl because of Manning and their offense.
William: No, the Giants beat the Patriots twice in the Super Bowl because the Giants D shut down Brady and Eli's recievers played out of their minds.
"Attack the Strong, Trample the Weak, Hurdle the Dead!"
-Former OSU S&C Coach Lichter
The Giants had the 6th worst defense in the league last year, and gave up an average of 253 yards per game passing, which was 9th worst in the league. They had a terrible defense and a terrible pass defense. Their offense won them games, case closed.
But make sure not give Eli any credit, because he's not as good as his brother...
I'm not trying to discredit him at all, I just don't think he's his brother's equal. Personally, I don't think it's even close, either. I think Tom Brady is a far comparison to Peyton, and I think that--by all measures other than Super Bowl rings--Peyton is superior.
I think Eli's a marvelous contender in the playoffs, but that can't singularly define his legacy any more than Marino's lack of super bowl rings can define his.
Many would consider Bradshaw to be a great QB, 4 rings, right? Was it all about his skill? He certainly wasn't the best passer of his day. But he was a leader and came through when it was needed. Sometimes we look more at stats than we do accomplishments.
Oyster: I consider Bradshaw to be a very good QB, not a great one. He has some major intangibles that cannot be denied, however he can thank Franco Harris and the Steel Curtain for a lot of his fame.
"Attack the Strong, Trample the Weak, Hurdle the Dead!"
-Former OSU S&C Coach Lichter
Bradshaw is the greatest QB in my mind, he won 4 Super Bowls and called his own freaking plays. Montana didn't call his own plays, neither did Brady, Ridgers or either Manning. I'd have Unitas 2nd and Graham 3rd.
Also you keep mentioning these great catches by WRs, but who was the guy that got them the ball?
That miraculous catch that was made in the first Eli win? The one that Eli heaved up while being sacked? Yeah, that was all reciever.
The immaculate reception? Terry can thank the Raiders for that one.
I'm not denying that any of these QB's are good but they had more than their fair share of help from great D's stepping up and receivers helping them out.
As for calling their own plays. Peyton may not have called his own plays out of the huddle but by the time the play was run he had audibled the play into his own.
"Attack the Strong, Trample the Weak, Hurdle the Dead!"
-Former OSU S&C Coach Lichter
Ummm Peyton calls his own plays...
@OYSTER - I agree, but to an extent. Bradshaw was great, and based upon your assessment I wouldn't consider him to be among the all-time greats (you'll have to forgive me, I wasn't alive when he was playing, and I have nowhere near the knowledge of the NFL's past that I do in college--which could optomistically be described as "solid").
I think the best measure for any athlete is to compare them to the status quo of the times that they played (it goes without saying that even Blaine Gabbert could probably run circles around Joe Namath, the game's just so much more comlpex now). Based upon that measure, I'd consider Eli to be a great quarterback who's had the unfortunate circumstance of being a contemporary to two of the best to ever play the game in Brady and Peyton.
Here's something to consider: if we're counting Super Bowl rings, do you consider Brady to be superior to Eli, due to his three rings? As I've mentioned, I think a Peyton/Brady comparison is about equal--and since I've previously asserted my favoring of Peyton to his brother, I consider both superior to Eli.
Boy, I created a monster with this thread. Anyway, my original post of 1 ring to 2 rings was simply a simple way to acknowledge that people are judged by what you have done, and I am sure that as much as Peyton loves his success, he probably covets his brothers accomplishments. How many people today remember Marino as being great (unless you are old enough to have watched him). He never won anything, and he is judged by that. Sad but true. Who today remembers Pete Rose for all he did on the field?
Marino was overrated, simple as that. In fact, here's a blogpost that proves this, quite well at that. http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/the-marino-mythology/4507/
William: But you want to talk about Eli in the playoffs. That's when their D stepped up and arguing that their D, combined with great catches by the receivers, won them playoff games and the Super Bowl.
"Attack the Strong, Trample the Weak, Hurdle the Dead!"
-Former OSU S&C Coach Lichter
@OYSTER - Ehh, that's like saying that Trent Dilfer is superior to Dan Marino because he has a ring. I don't buy that. In my opinion, Peyton and Brady are the quarterbacks of the past decade; and it's not even close. No one's been able to sustain gaudy stats and individual dominance the way those two have. Those two are the reason that the NFL is now a quarterback-driven league, and provided for the emergence of guys like Brees ('06-present) and Rodgers ('08-present); who are the standard bearers for this decade (along with Brady).
Bingo Hodge, Peyton and Brady are THE blue chip QBs of the past decade. Both won with little to know talent and with great talent. Both have been ageless in their excellence or talent level surrounding them. Both have set unimagineable records through it all.
Exactly. Look at that Colts team after Peyton went down with the neck surgery. Virtually the same team crumbled without him at the helm. That man single-handedly elevated his team to greatness; a team with two good DEs and an elite offense. Contrast this with Eli, who's running a functional offense with an elite defense backing them up.
I like the Robert Horry is better than Wilt Chamberlin, but same point haha. Look at replacement value. Peytonless Colts v Bradyless Pats. They each missed a year and the results were pretty different.
SB rings don't distinguish the individual as the one and only stat. Can anyone sit here and tell me if you were picking your team today that even post neck surgery Peyton woudn't be picked over Eli. Eli is a very good QB, but Peyton is an all time great.
If I were picking a team to be competitive for the future, I would take Eli. If it was for simple short term success, Peyton.
That means nothing becuase Eli is younger. I ask you not twist the point being made...
Scenario 1: One year, this year -> Peyton.
Scenario 2: You can draft either one their draft class (but somehow they ended up in the same draft class) knowing their future skillset -> still Peyton.
It isn't even a hard choice given all the variables are the same besides the player. Nothing againt Eli, he should be proud of his career. He has accomplished much, he is a good QB. But we are talking about splitting hairs on greatness, which Eli is not in that catagory and Peyton is near the top if not the top of.
I don't think I twisted anything. You threw in the neck surgery, so that means the current situation is being considered. With that I gave you my answer.
Oyster, you at least answered the short term which is the point. We can't be talking about who is the better QB, not who we are building a team around for the next 5 years. I brought up the neck surgery, to note that even with a seemingly career ending injury where his team dumps him... he is still the better QB by far.
I forgot to add that I am an NFC guy, so I have my special glasses on.
I'm a Lions fan, not only do I still see through my NFC glasses... I also have blurred vision and a level of NFL sloweness that makes be root for an inept team.
What if they were the same age?
*EDIT: Damn STEENSN, beat me to it.
Lol Hodge, that is the whole point of the question and I think everyone should realize that...
I'll say this much. I'm never ending a post with the word 'Discuss' again ; )
Just use the eye test. Eli is all over the place at times making seemingly rookie mistakes. Then from time to time he rises to the occasion. Peyton is flat out dominant and demands the entire attention and gameplan of a defense and throwing out junk schemes to try to at the very most confuse him for a few quarters. Sometimes that works. The other thing you have to consider is that Peyton and Brady had to go up against each other and those Patriots teams were absolutely loaded with a HoF QB on top of it. Peyton would likely have more rings otherwise. If you want to talk about calling his own plays as the barometer of greatness you sure as hell better have Peyton at #1 on that list. Not only does he calls his own plays, he IS the offensive coordinator for an offense. He brought an entire system with him to his new team to run. They're a significantly better offensive team as a result.
and no way I pick Eli over Rogers...
Eli is clutch in the playoffs. I'd take Eli over Rodgers any day of the week.
Rodgers isn't clutch in the playoffs? He has a Super Bowl too and traditionally puts up better stats than Eli. I'll take Rodgers.
"Attack the Strong, Trample the Weak, Hurdle the Dead!"
-Former OSU S&C Coach Lichter
Eli isn't even close, Rodgers is an incredible quarterback and will probably go down as the best of this generation. He has so much less to work with then Manning/Brady did. Graham/Staubach/Tarkenton/Young I would say are behind him as well.
Lol wut? Driver, Jennings, Nelson, Cobb and Finley are pretty good weapons to work with.
Tarkenton held all of the major QB records when he left the league, he was a guy who was barely 6' tall that could straight up ball. Young won 3 Super Bowls and was similar to Tarkenton in playing style, he was mobile and a damn good passer. Staubach was called the greatest combination of a passer, athlete and leader to ever play football by Tom Landry. Again he won more Super Bowls than Rodgers (who still has time) and was named to the 1970s All-Time team, and all of this was done after he was in the Navy for 5 years. Otto Graham took the Browns to 10 straight championships in 10 years and won 7 of them, and he still holds the record for yards per completion. All of them had better careers than Rodgers has had so far. I'm not saying that he won't have a better career than any of those guys, but to suggest that he is better right now shows a foolish disregard for NFL history. Also as of now, there is no way that Rodgers touches Tom Brady/Peyton Manning for best of this generation.
Peyton Manniing does call his own plays, and for that he deserves much credit, but Bradshaw has 3 more titles than him, and while you can say he had Harris and the Steelers' D, the myth of the Steel Curtain is far over played, for during Bradshaw's 14 years with the Steelers, the Steelers' D only had the best defense twice out of those 14 years (by that I mean led in scoring defense).
Not really I think he makes all of those receivers. Any great quarterback can make a speedy 5'9 guy into a star, see Wes Welker. You misunderstood my comment about Rodgers being better then those guys. I meant he is better not he has accomplished more. Just so you know Steve Young only won a single super bowl, Tarkenton was the perfectexample of a playoff choker also not sure how him being shorter makes him better. To this point hasn't Rodgers only been a starter for just a few years, i'm not sure I can recall a quarterback who has accomplished more in such a short period of time. No quarterback you listed has had anywhere near that little to work with as Rodgers has had as he is incredibly successful despite an awful and I mean absolutely atrocious defense.
Who knew who Gronkowski, Welker and Hernandez was before they got to New England? Why were teams not jumping to offer Welker a contract deal? One more thing, look at how old NE recievers are, and how long the other guys have been in the league. It's all Brady.
Also to the poster who said Giants defense wasn't very good? I'm pretty sure every team in the country would have loved to have Osi Umenyiora, Justin tuck, Jason Pierre-Paul, and Michael Strahan(single season sack leader) on their D-line over the past five years.
I like to believe that my best hits border on felonious assault.
JACK TATUM
Just because you have a good D-line doesn't mean you have a good defense, you still need quality linebackers and secondary players.
See Ohio State, 2012 defense (first half of the year more so than later)
Sorry Urban, Woody is still my favorite
When it's a toss up, I'll take the kid that went buck...also I.8 nailed it and did not deserve a downvote...like usual.
That wasn't specific enough. I meant I.8 gets downvoted unfairly.
I can't get it out of my head that some day, Cardale Jones will manage to get away from his studies just long enough to lead the Buckeyes to glory. The kid may not like taking bullshit classes (what freshman in college does?), but he is a pretty talented kid. With three years in the system behind Miller, he could be the next in line.
He just doesn't really fit the system. That doesn't mean that we couldn't win with Cardale in the system (we all remember what Chris Leak did) but it does mean that he isn't likely to play if Urban has a QB he likes more in the system. And with Barret and another person having 1-2 years in the system it's likely Cardale is lost in translation.
I think Cardale transfers out after Barrett gets here, but who knows.
"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes
THE Ohio State University
I'd personally stick with Barrett. He was the consensus #1 dual threat QB not so long ago & Drs are magicians when it comes to ACL surgeries. I imagine 2014 will treat OSU well with QBs so I think we don't take a close look at the kid...
The world is full of kings & queens who'll blind your eyes & steal your dreams - it's heaven & hell - Ronnie James Dio.
Dual threat doesn't exactly mean he fits. Barrett excels as a power option QB alot like an unnamed Jets QB. It is one thing to be able to run and throw. It is a whole other world to be able to read and react. When Barrett tucks the ball, he knows exactly what he wants to do, no questions. That is a lot like what Braxton does and I would go as far to say he might be a better passer than Braxton when he came in as a freshman.
I do hope Barrett can play next season. Would be nice to have a guy come in that can get tough runs in and give Brax a break a few plays. If Guiton can run like that, he would have come in a few times to relieve Brax. I think it was a very smart move when he would do that with Leak and Tebow.
Rogers? GOAT? He's not even the packers GOAT !!!! FAVRE STFU!
Let me fix that for you: Bart Starr
Bart was great in his era but Brett is 10x his stats in almost every major category
Bart has 5 NFL championships. Brett has 1. Favre played for nearly two decades, of course he's going to have huge numbers. Starr averaged a championship every three years, Favre can't come close to that.
Favre is also the career int leader...
"Attack the Strong, Trample the Weak, Hurdle the Dead!"
-Former OSU S&C Coach Lichter
Can't really compare players who play in different eras.