Big Ten expansion has been on my mind a lot since the surprising - and disappointing - addition of Rutgers and Maryland. Most people seem to agree that these two schools were the foundation for getting the conference to 16 teams. I'd like to believe that Jim Delaney knows what he's doing, and I get that the new TV markets and recruting grounds are important, despite the watered-down football product RU and Maryland bring. That said, I really, really hope that the ultimate goal of this expansion push is to bring one more football heavyweight, like Texas or Notre Dame, aboard. However, the general consensus, at least among the people who get paid to analyze this stuff for a living, is that Virginia, Georgia Tech and possibly North Carolina are the next targets. Obviously, none of these schools moves the needle much from a football perspective, although they are all in growing markets and have great academics. My question is this: If Virginia is a legitimate target due to location, academics and athletics, why not consider Virginia Tech for the B1G? They still bring the DC/Baltimore/Virginia TV market (more so than UVA, I would think), they have a pretty good academic standing (#72 according to USNews) and they are a very respectable football program. They are MUCH better than UVA, UNC or GT in football and they seem to fit the other criteria too. Does anyone know a reason why this wouldn't be a possibilty?
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I would rather have VT And North Carolina State and would to a 3 divsion system.
How are you going to divide 16 by 3?
If leagues go to 16, there will probably be 4, 4 team divisions.
"Attack the Strong, Trample the Weak, Hurdle the Dead!"
-Former OSU S&C Coach Lichter
How would a conference title game work with 4 division winners? I think unless they exceed 20 teams per conference, they'll keep it to 2 divisions
Semi-finals
"Attack the Strong, Trample the Weak, Hurdle the Dead!"
-Former OSU S&C Coach Lichter
Won't be divisions- it would be pods.
You put the teams in 5 pods of 4. You always play the four in your pod and each year one other pod. You rotate so you face everyone once every three years.
The two teams with the best conference record go to your championship game, regardless of pod.
Your pod is usually your rivals to ensure you play them so ours would be something like us, TSUN, Sparty, and Illinois.
The NCAA says you cna have a conference champ game with 12+ teams, but they have never said you have to have divisions.
The pod system can go into place right now with no additional games.
If they want to move to something like semi-finals (which is obviously preferable) and four divisions, they'd have to get the NCAA to change its rules and they'd lose an out of conference game on the schedule. The advantage of the pods is it makes it seem more like one conference- you play everybody in a three year span and are in direct competition for a championship spot with all of them.
The divisions method means you see everyone out of your division way less often- almost like they're in another conference- and you're only really in competition with the teams in your division. In effect four divisions become like four conferences used to be, but with a playoff at the end.
VT is a move that makes a lot of sense; they're probably the biggest alumni base in the DC market, followed closely by PSU. They'd do a lot to shore up the eastern division and would put ND's feet to the fire to join (I'm assuming ND is Delany's long play).
Taquitos.
VT would assure the BTN of locking up the DC market for sure. I think Maryland and Virginia would deliver it too, but VT would have it sewn up.
i would say academic standards is what is keeping VT from getting a serious look from the Big Ten!!
Yup- not an AAU member.
Delaney even said that had he known Nebraska was going to lose their AAU certification, they would not have been in the B1G.
Not sure why people keep throwing out non-AAU members as possible expansion. Never going to happen. Notre Dame is the only non AAU member the B1G would even consider.
I don't even know why they take Notre Dame as a non-AAU member. They aren't worth it. In terms of money they'll bring to the BTN, they aren't worth as much as Rutgers or Maryland. I don't know why they'd make any concessions to add Notre Dame, they just aren't as valuable as they were previously believed to be.
Dude Notre Dame would easily bring in more money than Maryland or Rutgers combined. I would guess more people in the NY market watch Notre Dame on NBC than those two schools. If ND joined the big I would assume they would be forced to put a game or two on the BTN.
As much as I dislike ND, they have a national following like none other. They would be a more valuable add than Penn State, Nebraska, Maryland, or Rutgers. They also have a very profitable and sucessful athletic department.
"Attack the Strong, Trample the Weak, Hurdle the Dead!"
-Former OSU S&C Coach Lichter
N Dame is not an AAU member primarily because they are an undergraduate oriented University. I imagine none of the service academies are AAU and maybe not even some of the undergraduate-oriented Ivy League schools such as Princeton.
Just because N Dame is arrogant, doesn't mean their academics are not top notch. By all accounts they are excellent.
The money thing is pretty obvious. N Dame is French for lots of money
There might be at least one other non-AAU school they would consider but it isn't VT.
they are currently ranked #72 overall, tied with MSU and Iowa, ahead of Indiana, Nebraska, and Rutgers
http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/nat...
we are #56 for comparison, Northwestern is top B1G school at #12
You can forget about that ranking. It means nothing. The only ranking the B1G uses is AAU member or not an AAU member.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_American_Universities
I realize that, but it is still something to compare them to overall as an academic institution.
I know a lot of people don't agree with me on this, but the fact that they're not AAU is a sticking point with the Big Ten. For as innovative as Delaney can be, he's decicidly Cro-Magnon about keeping the Big Ten's stellar academic profile. I completely agree that they'd have been a vastly better choice than Maryland, but for whatever reasons said academic factors are still considered holier than thou (it also helps when you have the most lucritive conference payout in history).
I think the B1G really wants ND (who, ironically, also aren't in the AAU--but have a stellar academic reputation, to boot), and if they cannot get them will go with any of Ga. Tech, UNC, or Texas.
If they abandon the AAU qualification, I'd love to see Va. Tech in the B1G.
The AAU thing is absurd, in my view. I'm all for high academic standing, and I'm proud that the B1G is, top to bottom, the best academic league in the country. It's infinitely better than the glorified community colleges that populate the SEC. That said, the AAU thing obviously wouldn't prevent ND from joining. I hope that ND is the endgame here, I really do. But realistically, it probably won't happen, so I'm seeing VT as a pretty solid option. From location to alumni to athletics and academics, they are a good school. They aren't any worse academically than Iowa, Nebraska or several other B1G schools. This type of antiquated thinking is going to come around and bite the B1G in the ass, I am afraid.
We can't stop here; this is bat country...
I'd like to say that you're right--seeing as I'm inclined to agree with you--but riddle me this, when has Delaney been wrong? Besides the idea that Rutgers and Maryland will somehow "dilute" the Big Ten's brand (funny how no one mentions that half of all conferences consist of bottom-feeders), I don't know how not going after academically inferior institutions will hurt us when each school in the B1G is making a fortune off the BTN.
Maybe ND comes, maybe they don't. The bottom line is that we have enough monetary power to cherry-pick members. I think Delaney's goal, though, is to snag ND--and with his Fox alliance get the BTN nationwide distribution. It's really the only way we can expand now, aside from trying to get Texas.
when has Delaney been wrong?... um, how about when choosing those division names? other than that I would say you're probably right on this one.
All the games of the season are just practices for that glorious saturday in November when we get to jack Shoelace's invisible cereal bowl and drink our fill of delicious skunkweasel tears ...Michigan Still Sucks!!
I think we are on the same page, but for the sake of argument, I'll disagree - slightly. Yes, I trust Delaney, for the most part, when it comes to expanding the B1G and building the brand that is our conference. However, I don't think he has done enough to strengthen the on-field product. I think that his undying allegience to the Rose Bowl may have cost the B1G some negotiating power with the playoff format. I, for one, thought that having the playoffs on campus would have been a HUGE advantage for the B1G, especially considerng the fact that all bowls are played in the SEC, which is obviously a major disadvantage for us. Delaney gave up on that far too early, I think. Also, I think he could be a little more influential regarding the on-field product, which has obviously regressed over the last few years. Yes, every leage has bottom-feeders. But literally HALF the Big Ten is terrible. Even our "good" teams like Wisconsin, Michigan State, Iowa, are pretty bad right now. I have a hard time accepting that mediocrity when every school gets the same revenue from the conference that Ohio State and Michigan gets. I think there should be mandates from the conference that require a specific amount of the conference payout to go towards improving a team's football program, coaches or facilities. Why should Purdue get part of Ohio State's BCS money and then pay a shit coach like Danny Hope 900k a year?
We can't stop here; this is bat country...
Is that even Delaney's decision to make? It could be the university presidents who have made that a sticking point.
IT won't be long before the ACC looks like the Big east.
Virginia is not a member of the AAU. All schools in the B1G are with the exception of Nebraska, whom I would guess is getting a lot of pressure to get that accredation back. This is why Virginia, UNC, and Georiga Tech were mentioned as additional prime targets as well as ND OU and Texas.
Nothing like dancing on the field in 02...
I'm gonna guess you meant Virginia Tech is not a member.
I would think. UVA is the Michigan of the ACC (as far as academics and being a preppy jerk are concerned).
"I like to kick Michigan's ass and chew bubble gum, and I'm all out of gum."
UVa and UNC are in a cage-fight for that recognition. They're both academic juggernauts and filled with douchebags, especially UNC. I'd actually contend that UNC is more so the Michigan of the ACC, because they both have a large following of Wal-Mart fans that could never get into their respective schools, whereas UVa doesn't have nearly as many fans as either of those schools. If the Big Ten is to go after two Mid-Atlantic schools, give me Virginia Tech and NC State. They're both good engineering schools, and NC State is currently applying for AAU membership (which basically means they've been attempting to ramp up research spending as well as hire more accredited faculty members, in order to receive an invitation.)
I thought Duke was the academic standard bearer for the ACC? Am I wrong?
Well they're a private school. UVa and UNC, as well as UM are public schools. Duke=Northwestern.
You don't know about the Wal-Mart Cavaliers in Virginia.
"I like to kick Michigan's ass and chew bubble gum, and I'm all out of gum."
Hodge beat me to it. Well done sir.
Nothing like dancing on the field in 02...
VT wouldn't be a home run addition, like ND or Texas. It would be a stand-up double, maybe a triple. It would be infinitely better than the bunt single the B1G scored with Maryland and Rutgers. Ohio State is already not playing Nebraska or Mischigan State on a regular basis, which is disappointing. Now it looks like our yearly schedule will be some combination of Maryland, Rutgers, Indiana, Purdue, Wisconsin, Penn State, Michigan and Indiana. Bye-bye, strength of schedule!
We can't stop here; this is bat country...
I am starting to really think that Gene Smith's recent push on pushing the strong OOC matchups was in preparation for this.
I get why everyone is so down on Maryland they are just not a very good football team. But there could be promise. We all know that Under Armour is their main money source, UA could spend enough to upgrade them the same way Nike made Oregon so prevalent. But yes they are very bad now.
And why is everyone so down on Rutgers? They could be the B1G's version of what Texas A&M has done to the SEC. If you had to take a team from the Big East I know everyone wanted Louisville, but if you look over the past 5 years Rutgers has a better record then Louisville. 39-23 (8-5 average) to Louisville's 32-29 (6-6 average). I think a lot of those kids on the East Coast will be much more interested in Rutgers now that they know they will have a legitimate shot at a National Title playing in the B1G.
Once again I know it may not look great now, but I definitely think both of those schools have promise to improve the B1G, especially with how much more money they will be making.
Another possible strike against Virginia Tech (VT) is the B1G might not be able to take just VT. My understanding is that politicians in Virginia want to keep VT and the University of Virginia (UVA) paired together in a conference. Especially since people at UVA did a lot of lobbying to get VT the invitation to the ACC.
I wouldn't have a problem with VT and UVA joining. I'm not at all on board with UVA and GT or UNC, though. That would be just awful.
We can't stop here; this is bat country...
Osu plays Vt in football in a couple years.
would have made sense to leave Rutgers and Maryland and snag UVA and VT then
I'd take VaTech but I am not sure they're back yet. They were terrible this season. Their hoops team has been improved though. I dont want anyone from NC.
I for one am not convinced the conference jumping is over. In fact, I think we will see teams jump conferences more than once, especially if things dont pan out the way they had expected. One being Mizzou in the SEC. They were never strong enough to make that leap anyway. Who's to say they wouldnt jump ship again? And if so, do we want them? (I dont).
"Sherman ran an option play right through the south" - Greatest.Civil.War.Analogy.Ever
I don't think Mizzou would want to leave. At least not anytime soon. I haven't been there since the season started, but they were over the moon about joining the SEC. Plus, I'm guessing those who see the money are loving it as well, no matter what their record is in football. Also, don't forget they were hardly ever serious contenders in the Big 12 either, so what's the difference.
If you are anywhere near Northern Virginia/DC..Virginia Tech and State Penn loyal bars literally litter every street corner. Where i go in Arlington/Clarendon/Ballston, VA, on Saturdays, you would think you were @Penn State on gameday with the amount of scum navy&white polluting the streets.
"Winter is coming" - Urban Meyer
I would put money on VT going to the SEC at some point.
The explanation is simple. It all has to do with Frank Beamer's neck:
Is it me, or does Beamer have a certain, Cuato-like quality?
-The Aristocrats!
I love how people view conference realignment as the way schools are or how they have historically been. Looking at schools based just on how they've been at football the past decade is just foolish. The ACC is talking about adding UCONN as a member and they've had a Division I program for how long? Well then you would rebut well look at their basketball team...Guess what? Their basketball team stunk before Jim Calhoun got there.
There are really 3 driving forces for each move-->1) Do they fit academically with the conference? This is HUGE! The Big Ten will not and should not sacrifice academic quality for athletic excellence. This is why Georgia Tech left the SEC for the ACC. Because academic integrity really does matter.
2) Population Demographics. The Midwest is leaking population. The Northeast? Yeah they're adding population. The number of people that fall within your footprint directly correlate to success on the field. These new moves open up Mid-Atlantic football recruits--which to this point is the most fertile region that no conference can call home. AND it opens up NY bball for the Big Ten adding to our already dominant conference.
3) MONEY. I saved this one for last because it all goes back to the start of the post. You can't look at Rutgers and Maryland as they are look at them as they could be. Gary Williams left Ohio State to coach bball at Maryland. Maryland has a history of athletic success in several sports. With more money and fertile recruiting grounds in their backyard why can't they kick it up a notch? Especially because we all know playing in the BIG is better than playing in the ACC.
Almost ditto for Rutgers. They have really done a good job of competing in the Big East recently. The same way that Cinci got immediate credibility over all MAC schools when they joined the Big East is going to play a factor in recruting for Rutgers now. They know have a huge leg up on ACC and Big East schools because they can offer stability and playing in front of 100,000 people in one of the top 4 football conferences in America(Pac-12, Big 12, and SEC being the others). That matters.
Um, no. Maryland and Rutgers have always been terrible at football.
We can't stop here; this is bat country...
It was a reference to other schools. Not Maryland and Rutgers.
I still fail to see why Virginia Tech doesn't meet every single criteria you specified. I'm saying VT would be better than UVA or UNC because they have better athletics, a good academic profile AND the growing demographic.
We can't stop here; this is bat country...
No Confederate schools in the B1G! It's a Union conference.
Real fans stay for Carmen.
This is a joke, right? We added Maryland, they liked themselves some slavery too....
Well some states in the union were slave states prior as well, but they chose to stay in the union and not secede. Not to mention, Maryland didn't secede so really they were not a confederate state. They were actually neutral!
Also, 2/3 of the men who enlisted, were Union soldiers.
Maryland was one of the border states, along with Kentucky. Sure they didn't secede, but Maryland sure as hell thought about it. North Carolina was another interesting state, as it provided more Confederate soldiers than any other state, thanks to large plantations and Confederate sentiments in the Eastern portion of the state, whereas the Piedmont and Mountainous portions of the state were dominated by Scottish farmers, and were heavily pro-Union, as North Carolina also sent a lot of troops to the Union forces. A tidbit that I find intersting is that North Carolina had no want to secede, but were essentially forced to after Tennessee did, because they became pinned between Virginia, South Carolina, and Tennessee. This is why Sherman didn't burn Raleigh during his Carolinas campaign.
The culture in DC-area MD and VA has changed significantly since then. You don't see very many Confederate flags flying around everywhere. (You'll see a lot in western Loudoun and rural Baltimore, but that's about it.)
"I like to kick Michigan's ass and chew bubble gum, and I'm all out of gum."
I think you mean western Loudoun and points west/south.
"Attack the Strong, Trample the Weak, Hurdle the Dead!"
-Former OSU S&C Coach Lichter
Yes, thank you.
"I like to kick Michigan's ass and chew bubble gum, and I'm all out of gum."
IF the AACC is the standard being used for expansion maybe we would have been better off merging with the PAC12. There are very few programs in the AACC that aren't already members of BIG or the PAC.
Yes there are two Buckeyes in Ann arbor on this site!
I see OSU practically setting up a conference they can dominate, assuring our presence in the playoff every year.
I see young kids in the DC, NY/NJ and ATL metro areas seeing the scarlet and grey dominate, thus falling in love at a young age.
I see an elite basketball conference that will aid the football programs with less clout.
I see TV reach of the BTN becoming difficult to ignore, thus opening up more regions to episodes of The Journey: Braxton Miller chases Heisman.
I see some issues as well, many have been stated above. I realize some challenges await and big choices will be made.
I see a mostly positive future for Ohio State athletics, which is really all I care about.
Wayne Woodrow Hayes