Has anyone felt like the downvoting feature has been abused, or maybe just wondered "why did I get a downvote for my authentic contribution to this board?" Is it possible, that some posters have disagreed in the past with each other and have it out for each other via downvoting on the regular?
I bring this topic up because I don't want this site to lose it's diversity of opinion OR its ability to make posters feel like their input is valuable. It was my understanding that the point of a voting system was to a) encourage good posting and b) discourage trolls. Somewhere along the lines, have we lost that theme or are we in danger of getting to that point?
My disclaimer - my personal experience that led me to post this was a contraversial forum topic (started by yours truly) with good intentions that rubbed some people the wrong way. Every time I posted I was downvoted multiple times, regardless of how well worded the post was. I am as big a fan of Ohio State as the next guy on this site and I felt things got too personal, don't wish any malaise upon anyone here and wish we could give each other the benefit of the doubt sometimes.
I don't think we should care as much as we do if we get downvoted. Everyone has their own rules as we've already discussed, so maybe it's time we just live with that. I, personally, get tired of reading the obligatory "why did I get downvoted?" comment in every single thread. Just know that the people that actively downvote probably actively upvote as well. In the grand scheme of things, one downvote is not going to affect OSU's record, the economy, or the outcome of your life.
I get annoyed sometimes when I see downvotes being showered upon good, if contrarian, opinions. Seems like a lot of people didn't read or misinterpreted the voting system, and downvote some posts based on opinion alone. But it seems like the rest of the community does a bang-up job on upvoting comments that have needless downvotes, so it doesn't bother me as much.
Bottom line is that I don't think the system can ever be foolproof, and you'll always have people that abuse and misuse these systems. I do think that the majority of bad, trolling comments get downvoted swift and often, and it has helped contribute to the "troll free" atmostphere that Eleven-Dub enjoys. As long as the voting's primary function continues to succeed, the side effects, though annoying, are worth it.
@ optimistic buck... - the voting system is intended to encourage / discourage different behaviors on this forum, so I guess my point is that people have a right to wonder why they were downvoted so they can change their behavior accordingly. the helmet sticker system effects the content of this forum, which in it's entirety does NOT effect osu's record, the economy or the outcome of our lives. but we still like visiting, reading, and contributing here right?
@ hodge - thanks for the good points
I know what you are talking about. When the voting system was introduced the instructions for downvoting were to only utilize it when there was a violation of the commenting policy: http://www.elevenwarriors.com/help/commenting-policy
However, many use it simply as a way of showing their disapproval of a posted comment. I go out of my way to upvote any comment not in violation of the commenting policy that has received downvotes. Supposedly, the staff can see how you are voting, and I know that they have had issues with several individuals who go out of their way to downvote anything they disagree with.
In a perfect world, everyone would get the hang of this, but the up/down vote features on many other sites are not utilized or intended to be used as the 11W system was proposed. It is just hard for many to break old habits of downvoting simply because they have an opposing view.
My frustration with the downvote box is that it is really easy to accidently downvote on a smart phone or touch tablet. What I would prefer for all downvotes is a confirmation box that asks if one really wants to downvote with a reminder in that verification box of what the downvote is actually supposed to be used for - something like this:
CAUTION! YOU ARE ABOUT TO DOWNVOTE THIS COMMENT - DOWN VOTES ARE ONLY SUPPOSED TO BE UTILIZED FOR VIOLATIONS OF OUR COMMENTING POLICY - DO YOU REALLY WANT TO ENTER A DOWNVOTE?
That way, a downvote is actually a 2 step process that keeps the user informed of what the downvote is actually used for. Don't know if this is possible, but it should be. Staff? Can you do this?
I think were all adults and a downvote on a internet forum site should not ruin your day. Whether what I post right now gets 100 downvotes or 100 upvotes, I could care less. I will still post and read other people's posts. One of the reasons I left Bucknuts is because people over there were so concerned about downvotes. Almost every topic started with "Please don't downvote me." What ruins the site is the constant complaining of the voting system. There is no prize for the most helmet stickers.
On of the site persons poted on this... not sure how to dig his blog post up. Essentially, he said ignore them, people are going to abuse it so if there are a handful of downvotes just upvote them.
I think excessive upvotes and downvotes are inherent and equal each other out. The main point of the system has not been diluted, as we've seen some of the boards largest trolls in the past month face death by downvote and are now no longer nuisances
Maybe its not an awesome idea to attach ones self esteem to down votes on a sports blog going forward lol.
Follow me @jaythesportsguy
I can't even see the up/down voting sytem that everyone speaks of...
Ohio State Alum '10
Go Bucks!
@HCAZUALCC, you are just going to have to accept that downvotes will happen to you whether it meets the original intent of the system. To try to make a system that is infallible is just not going to happen. But continuing to ask over and over again why you get downvoted does not help. Its not going to get you the answer "It was me. I just felt like being an ass". Just not going to happen so no reason to argue and then make it worst buy calling the person(s) a name, which happens quite often and causes for many more downvotes. I did write a little tale about this:
http://www.elevenwarriors.com/blogs/squirrel-master/despite-clear-concis...
Same here peterph3
I cared after the Purdue game because everyone was going nuts after Braxton's injury. I thought then and I still think the system isn't working because people don't care enough to follow the voting rules. But ultimately... I stopped caring and generally don't comment as much as I was at the time.
I really think its a non-issue. Sure, if you post a contrarian opinion, you'll get some downvotes, but they're usually countered by upvotes from those who understand the intent of the system.
Downvote storms are self-inflicted by those who continually post comments within the same thread that are insulting, attacking, or otherwise in violation of the commenting policy. A few random comments don't incur the wrath of commentariat.
@squirrel master - very nice post. puts things nicely in perspective and captures uabuckeyes sentiment as well
if the voting system is serving a purpose otherwise then it makes sense (i.e. - scares away trolls). but if it doesn't serve that purpose then we are losing posters like colin (above) and their valuable contributions.
I don't know how much the "helmet sticker" idea helps the site. I think it was a good idea in theory and hasn't worked well in practice. Maybe don't allow for downvotes? Then no one has their feelings hurt? If you like a comment upvote it, if not just move on? I dunno just a thought
I just looked all through the site to find a helmet sticker/voting policy. Could not find it except in the original article way back.
Jason, I have a suggestion. Perhaps a sticker/voting policy can be posted in the Resourses section.
"It's just another case of there you are". ~ Doc (1918-2012)
Perhaps we should revisit our personal priorities when some anonymous person "downvoting" us (whatever that means) causes us this much angst. If a major portion of my personal self-worth depends on the number of mythical "helmet stickers" I earn on a website, there's a problem.
Go serve at a mentoring program, visit a prison and sit with the men, read to struggling schoolkids, etc. Get some perspective.
@Rbuck, actually I think the policy itself is the commenting policy. If you follow that policy, then the stickers should coincide.
I'm sorry guys but I follow the belief that if you don't let it bother you when you get a downvote or two, it shouldn't effect your time on this website. Some commentors don't even look back to see if there was a downvote or not. You just can't let it get to you because then it becomes the bigger issue and many more downvotes will start to happen.
In regards to downvoting, I follow policy or when it truly is called for. In regards to upvoting, screw policy, hand them out as often as you can. Like right now I feel like upvoting everyone on here!
not too sure why people are getting upset about getting downvotes... the helmet sticker system is a nice feature but its not that BIG of a deal IMO...
I like where your head is at and I agree with you, but lets be honest the problem isnt the downvoting its the people that get butt hurt over being downvoted
The voting has helped the site. There are more comments and they are better IMHO. There were shitty commenters and shitty comments before, and there will continue to be. But SOME of those are being deterred away. It has caused a lot of this kind of thread and discussion, which is also a good thing I think. It is out and in the open and therefore being dealt with and on the whole it is making the commenting better.
“Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect.” - Woody
but Joe, what you think of me means so much more! Like how you are drinking your coffee right now in that awesome bathrob.......I said too much!
hcazualcc: back when all this was happening, I didn't read your "controversial" forum post and/or follow the thread it generated. Now that I've done a quick review of it, I'm inclined to say that the voting system worked fine in this case, albeit with a certain amount of overkill.1
No, you're not a troll and, no, your forum post and follow-up comments were not offensive per se, ad hominem attacks, etc.
But consider the logic of what you did actually do: you're urging the 11W community to be careful and/or attentive about an issue - in the example you referenced, you were implying that a). Buckeye fans who use Twitter and other social media need to be careful/mindful of how they interact (in cyberspace) with 16, 17, 18 year old recruits and b). Buckeye fans need to be careful/mindful about possibly patronizing cyber-stalkers and/or con artists who might profit from inappropriate contact with kids (football recruits and current players).
Excellent advice, except that you need to be careful/mindful yourself not to inadvertantly - yet nevertheless recklessly - implicate a Twitter user as being shady, a cyber-stalker, etc., until you have a lot more evidence at hand. Listing somebody's name (or Twitter handle) in the same sentence/paragraph as the Anzalone creeper is pretty loaded thing to do, regardless of whether you meant it as such (I don't know anything about this Twitter character you referenced).
Once you put it out there like that, it might do damage, even after you try to walk it back. Maybe your intent was merely to generate a discussion, but your action had the potential to spill well past a blog discussion. Regardless of whether your intuitions about this person were right or wrong, your approach was NOT careful/mindful - so you were contradicting the main point of your forum post.
1 First rule of damage control: when you find yourself in a hole, stop digging. The downvoting you accumulated was overkill, but you enabled it by constantly following-up with additional comments.
My wife down votes me multiple times a day so I'm kind of used to it...
Could a down vote come with an explanation for the down vote? This may be asking too much but if it comes to keeping the integrity of voting on this site I for one would be willing to express my opinion.
Seriously this is more of the problem. People care too much about it. If your feelings get hurt about a +1 or a -1 then I feel really bad for you and how else you live your life.
It is like teaching kids that "everybody is a winner." No they are not. There are always winners and losers. They are always good posts, bad posts in everything in between. If you feel like you wrote something good then be proud of it. But don't freak out when someone puts a downvote. There are bigger things in life, move on.
@Fido, and I can actually say I was the one that was arguing (somewhat) with HC about that whole situation yet I did not downvote him once! I tried to stop it before it got there as you probably saw. It was like watching a train wreck and not being able to stop it. Although perhaps I was part of the problem with having it continue instead of leaving it alone. HC might not have been hit as often. Then again by that time he already asked the fated question "why the downvotes".
439Lawdog: LMAO! If married life = 11W . . . My wife would keep me at a perpetual state of 45 helmet stickers, just to keep me in line.
Putting a daily cap on the downvotes is the answer. There clearly are trolls and lurkers that are ramsacking threads and downvoting everyone, regardless of the comment. Some of the Michigan fans get downvoted simply for being Michigan fans (which I get). Limit it the number of downvotes to 3 or 5 per day and the senselessness will evaporate exponentially.
Those who stay will be CHAMPIONS!
~Bo Schembechler
It would be amusing to also see a leaderboard for down votes received, or maybe a plus/minus ratio for comments. I know several of my comments have been misinterpreted and I am likely the leader in the clubhouse.
@SJ52: Ha! Let's just give everyone a trophy, or else just don't keep score.
Seriously, I try to be generous with upvotes. The only thing that I downvote consistently is complaining about downvotes.
I feel like downvoting anyone who has a complaint about being downvoted. If someone disagrees with your opinion for whatever reason they can and will downvote if they feel like it! I suggest that you get over it! Who cares!
@Hail
Then I'd have to save all of my downvotes for you and would have none left for the real trolls!
J/K - that's an interesting idea and could work. As a point of clarification, you mean each user gets an allotment of downvotes to use per day, not limiting the number of downvotes a comment can garner?
You can kill a fly with your slipper or a cannon. Either way, the fly dies. -Ramzy
@Alhan, correct. Each user could hand out 3 downvotes per day. A particular comment would have no limit to the number of downvotes, so as, an offensive post could still receive 50 downvotes.
Those who stay will be CHAMPIONS!
~Bo Schembechler
@ Squirrel: Somewhat agree but the commenting policy doesn't state anything about voting down for a difference of opinion. I think that should be in writing.
"It's just another case of there you are". ~ Doc (1918-2012)
Squirrel: that's a great point, which I should have thought about - thanks! hcazualcc's intent was to generate a discussion. When people respond constructively to his (possibly reckless) forum post, he is put in a no win situation. If he responds, he's going to rack up even more downvotes. If he ignores the constructive responses, he appears evasive and his supposed interest in generating a discussion seems phony, etc.
I see that now. Ideally, maybe hcazualcc maxes out with a -25 whack and that's the end of it. Hodge, I think, recommended a cap on downvotes per day (or per thread). Maybe not a bad idea.
At the same time, I don't think that hcazualcc's forum post getting pounded was necessarily an example of the voting system malfunctioning.
I share hccazualcc's concerns about the voting system possibly discouraging free discussion because 11W members becoming overly timid, etc. And I agree with others on this thread saying, f--- it, don't worry about a few silly downvotes.
But the idea is . . . we shouldn't be afraid of boldly making ourselves sound crazy or stupid; the idea is NOT implying that other third parties are crazy, creepy, criminal, etc., unless we have pretty good evidence that they are.
@Rbuck, true. There is nothing specific to the helmet stickers.
For hcazualcc,
I gave you an upvote for each post in this thread. Are you feeling the love now?
@oyster - you rock!! lol
I'm glad this has turned into a good discussion a lot of good points and I think hail made a really good one in capping the daily downvote count per poster it would prevent abusing the system while still allowing it to function, JMO
I am for free speech. I am against caps as a safety net for those bent on darwinian self-extinction. Some have trolled their way to 11W oblivion. Others have figured out what makes the downvotes rain, and are better posters for it, and 11W is a better site for them still being around. I put HCAZUALCC in the latter category.
I am a firm believer that you reap what you sow. Well thought-out, respectful comments, even if they are negative or contrarian will not get you hammered, even if they do get you a few downvotes.
Do we really need to protect ourselves from ourselves? I think we are better than that.
I'm one of the people who asked why I got a downvote. Wasnt butt hurt or anything like that, just genuinely wondered why. Posted a pretty basic non controversial comment, just kind of wondered why. No big deal.
As somebody who can't see the downvotes, I get kind of weirded out when there's all this discussion of people judging my comments without being able to see them. I understand the limit on voting, but is there a rationale for not being able to see the votes? Anyhow it seems to me that if downvotes have consequences, then they should mean something... advice to ignore votes or blow them off may be good for mental health but also indicate a general meaninglessness of downvotes. Hail's idea seems like a good start.
Wasnt the 50 sticker limit supposed to help weed out the lurkers/ trolls who come in for one and done posters (Ie... Opposing fans for the week? who were looking to hate? Just voicing how I think the the programmer/ beta users were expecting the system to work. You'd think that after reading so many posts things would then even themselves out when you got the oppurtunity to upvote.
I should also state that I have randomly hit the downvote on accident. Which I then go back and find another post to upvote.
Nothing like dancing on the field in 02...
Hey sloopy, since you can't see the downvotes, I just want you to know it wasn't me that did it.
Blazers34: when you got downvoted, it's probably coming from a Clanton or a McLaury.
Downvotes are going to come. Please be respectful when posting and if you get downvoted because of your opinion take it as a compliment and move on. To my knowledge there isn't a trophy at the end of the interwebs for having the most helmet stickers. There isn't, right?
The top 3 get a turkey at Thanksgiving. You must have missed the memo on that.
Live turkeys dropped from a helicopter!
I would like to see public flogging or stoning be put in place as opposed to the sissy downvoting. Once weekly, in front of the horseshoe. Number of "flogs" or "stones" according to how many downvotes had been received that week. Let's eliminate the weak and see who the real posters are. Anyone for it????
Edit: Would like to wish the ttun visitors good luck for the week, you will need it.
just charge .25 for downvotes
O H I O is the Buckeye State
@Earle: Better than frozen turkeys (which actually happened once).
"It's just another case of there you are". ~ Doc (1918-2012)
@ Buck: That's crazy! Can't believe it happened in real life. I was referring to an old "WKRP in Cincinnati" episode (yes, I'm old) where they threw live turkeys out of a helicopter to the crowd below, not realizing that domesticated turkeys can't fly. The Les Nessman commentary (a la the Hindenberg audio) was priceless.
"As God as my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.'
I'm old too, and I didn't even have to look the quote up!
Maybe just an 'UPVOTE' option, ala facebook... i know some people just love to start fights, but let them do it with words in a post rather than anonymous thumb downs. Certainly would keep spirits a little more high around here.
I agree with hcazualcc, this current voting system seems to have taken something from this forum community.
Go Bucks!
@Groza...do you mean the week of The Game look out for downvotes or did you mean this against NW?
Those who stay will be CHAMPIONS!
~Bo Schembechler
Just don't take it personally. It isn't that hard; jerks are gonna be jerks. This system is incredibly effective for giving value to posts that greatly contribute (here's looking at BT and Triv!) and devaluing those that aren't as good.
Honestly, if you can't handle that some people don't like your comments, maybe an internet forum isn't the best place for you. To make it strictly "Like", similar to Facebook, is to destroy the system entirely.
In short, don't take it personally. A hint: asking why you got downvoted usually will attract more downvotes. Complaining about downvotes will get you even more.
To quote Reddit, from whom the system is pretty much borrowed:
If you derive your own value from fictitious helmet stickers, perhaps you need to re-evaluate where you are with life. They are pixels that represent what people think about your post. Don't take it personally.
Basically THE week that this policy is initiated. We are within a couple weeks of The Game so emotions will begin to swell.
@Blazers, when you ask why you got downvoted, did you get your answer outside of more downvotes? If you did get your answer, was it acceptable?
Also, being able to change your vote (by just clicking the other) would be a big help, like on Reddit. All too many times I accidentally hit the down button on my iPad or phone when I was just scrolling or meant to hit up. This would reduce the proposed second step that you would have to take that some users up higher than me have mentioned.
I know the staff was working on this for V2 though.
I can attest that downvotes deter trolling as I was recently slammed by the 11W commentariat for trolling on another commentor. (In my own defense, the Michigan game is coming up and I was feeling a little cheeky.)
I could have edited the comment and not gotten slammed as badly. But as long as I don't keep doing that, I'm not going to lose any privileges. And I don't really care about the Leaderboard. So my advice is to not get worked up about dv's.
On another note, I just want to point out something that I've been doing that probably isn't kosher with the commenting policy. Commentors who feel the need to attack the defensive coaching staff get automatic dv's from me. Although others might not agree, I feel this qualifies as trolling. Especially what was happening after the Indiana game. IMO there are a couple of select 11W commentors who just have it out for Fickell and company. Are there problems with the D? Yes, definitely. But as we've seen since then, this staff is capable of working around it. Anyone at this point who is still bringing up the "Fire Fickell" theme apparently has it out for the guy (based on his HC tenure last year???).
Anyways, those guys IMO need to settle down and watch Meyer do what Meyer does. A dv is my way of saying as much [without my having to reach thru the screen and strangle them... :-) ].
#fistpumpgobuckeyes
I think the voting system has worked to an extent. I agree many voters use it to simply say they disagree with your comment instead of typing out a response. You can typically tell on most threads if a downvoting troll came through, every commetn has a downvote. I wouldnt put to much stock into those downvotes.
I will say, I think the worst of abuse was done to Collin post Purdue game. He took a major hit in stickers and could have possibly loss priveledges. (not sure maybe he did?) He simply had an opinion different then others regarding Braxtons injury and got destroyed.
My thoughts to add to discussion are also be aware of the timing of your posts with sensitive material. Questioning our QB's toughness (collin) post game of a miraculous victory while most Buckeye fans are drinking and celebrating isnt the perfect time to start that discussion. If you had waited a few days I think there would have been a much better discussion on the subject.
For me a few Downvotes here or there shouldnt bother you. Huge abuse to where it effects a solid commentor to the site for simply having a different opinion is a different story.
"I'll fire when I'm god damn good and ready! You got that?" - Pete "Maverick" Mitchel
So your telling me that there isn't a prize for he most helmet stickers? If that is true then I'm going to another website.
@chitown- agreed completely
Yeah and to be 100% honest i hopped on to comment along the same lines as Colin and was scared off of defending him or stating my opinion for fear of getting downvoted into oblivion. Haha...which maybe that means the system is working...
"Anything less than flagrant is just playing grab ass!"
@awarren - glad u posted and i hope the 11w staff sees that. I hope this site doesnt turn into insiders vs outsiders we are all buckeyes...well except mman and hail ;)
I like the system. And please, programer who is reading this thread, don't ever include a "Are you sure you want to down vote this comment?" box. I would suggest allowing a toggle on the voting, i.e. you can only vote once but if you accidentally hit "downvote", you can push it again and undo it or hit "upvote" and transfer the vote over.
@Hcazualcc - I do think you were unfairly downvoted, but again, overall I think the system is pretty good. That said, I am pretty careful about what I post and don't get too many downvotes. If I do, meh, I don't really care.
"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes
THE Ohio State University
But i don't really care about my down and upvotes either haha. so i kinda have mixed feelings
"Anything less than flagrant is just playing grab ass!"
A few things that will greatly improving the voting system:
1) Allow everyone to see votes, even if they can't vote.
2) Allow votes to be editted so no more accidental downvotes.
3) More people vote more often.
4) Fewer comments about downvotes. If you ignore them, they will go away. The mods will catch people that are downvoting too much, don't worry about it. If you get downvoted often, maybe you are doing something wrong.
“Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect.” - Woody
I got multiple downvotes once for a joke that was disguised as lighthearted criticism of another poster, a bit of sarcasm that obviously didn't translate well on the screen, but otherwise I have no complaints.
Aside from pans of folks who have been personally abusive (not to me, just in general), I don't think I've used the downvote at all.
The most "loud mouth, disrespect" poster on 11W.
@Bucksfanxc: The Mods don't have access to that info...only the staff.
"It's just another case of there you are". ~ Doc (1918-2012)
As difficult as it can be to agree with a Michigan fan, I totally agree with Hail2Victors. I was hoping someone would say that so as soon as I got to his, I skipped on down to comment. If you put a limit on how many downvotes you can have per day, it can help in 2 ways. First, the trolls can't downvote everything for the sake of downvoting. I saw a person get downvoted in a thread earlier today, and it seemed like many others were too, for an insightful comment made that couldn't be taken in a negative way whatsoever (but of course he asks why he was downvoted and he then got 10 downvotes nearly instantly...bad move there but still). Secondly, and what I think is more important, it would cause most users to at least think about whether or not this is actually worth a downvote.
But if you limit downvotes, you should limit upvotes too. This makes the voting system become more valuable. That way you don't go through threads that are just complete upvote-fests (which no one really complains with). It makes you use those upvotes for good posts and downvotes for trolls or other nuisances instead of just freely doing it whenever with completely disregard for whether it was a good or bad post.
But with all of that being said, I will also agree with most people that this is really a non-issue. I've been downvoted at various points and it really isn't that big of a deal. It shouldn't be to anyone else either. If you're a good poster, you'll get enough upvotes down the road to completely offset that and then some. It also seems that there are enough people around, including myself, who will provide an upvote on a comment if it was seemingly downvoted for no reason. Hell, you may get 8 upvotes for 1 downvote, so there's no reason to complain there at all. We do a decent job at policing ourselves so I think we're fine. The points above are really just to say that if there is going to be a change, that is a possible route to go.
@squirrelmaster didnt get a direct answer, just that some people are A holes. Not really a biggie, and I didnt think asking was such a big deal. oh well. Based on some of the response, I'll surely not ask again! lol
Why does anyone care about helmet stickers? Like almost all Internet points, they are worthless.
Also...I'd like if you could up or downvote thread topics...Genestarwind always lays out great recruting threads and gets no upvotes and probably doesnt have as many helmet stickers as he deserves because you can't upvote the thread in general.
"Anything less than flagrant is just playing grab ass!"
@Awarren agree completely. There's a "post and run" mentaility on some threads too, I think downvoting threads could eliminate the bserved growth of useless forum topics that are created solely to get stickers