Numbers don't lie. A sophomore vs. senior. Both teams 12-0. Who is better and means more to their team? Shazier or Teo? No comparison if you look at the numbers. I do not get the love that is spewed for Teo. I am going to go out on a limb here and say Shazier doesn't have the best stats in the nation either. Obviously I am biased but the buckeyes have received no love from the media and were snubbed left and right on B1G awards. Meyer and his staff took a 6-7 program and turned it around in one year. However he isn't given the coach of the year nod. Kind of reminiscent of Jim Tressel being snubbed throughout his decade of dominance. Shazier has Hiesman type numbers according to the national media who is riding Teo harder than my puppy rides the corner of my bed. End of my rant. GO BUCKEYES! Excitement for many years to come!
http://www.cfbstats.com/2012/player/513/1025442/index.html
http://www.cfbstats.com/2012/player/518/1040916/index.html
Dude Teo is a much better linebacker than Shazier. It's really not debatable if you watch both play.
Shazier has more impact plays. A good linebacker makes tackles, a great defender makes plays. Te'o caught two Denardpunts and made a diving pick (that hit the turf, FTR) in Norman. Otherwise, he was in the right place, played his position and did what a solid MLB should do.
Ryan Shazier, at times was maddening because of his misses and over pursuit but find me a guy other than maybe Jarvis Jones who put offenses in more unfavorable positions than Ryan Shazier. The TFL and TFL yardage is huge, the pass defenses are a sign of a well rounded defender and the sacks and FF's are a sign of a guy who dominates games.
Manti Te'o has a great story. His personal life was a disaster and he continued to lead college football's most popular story to an undefeated season-though Golson was that team's MVP through the latter half of the year. He had a nice season for a guy who should have been doing this for four years.
Shazier had the better year, hands down. Te'o was the safer tackler, Shazier was the second most dominating defensive force this year.
4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off
Could not disagree more. And neither will NFL scouts.
Ok then I have to ask. What is it that Manti Te'o did so much better than Ryan Shazier?
As for the NFL, Manti Te'o will be a fine NFL player who can play inside a 3-4 or 4-3 and has all the makings of a nice, long, career. He'll be a tackle machine but won't be the Ray Lewis, Brian Urlacher type that takes over a game from the middle. A lot has changed in the NFL, but generally speaking the role of the MLB hasn't. Very few MLB's are game changers and Te'o is more Sean Lee than Urlacher\Lewis\Willis.
RDS on the other hand can come screaming off the edge, blitz in a zone scheme, cover the longer, more athletic TE's and still stop the run with more consistency as time goes on. Shazier's ceiling is higher than Te'o.
Lets not forget, Manti was the #2 overall player coming out of HS. He should have been doing this for longer but until this year, underwhelmed at ND. Shazier started hot as a true frosh, and took another step this year.
4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off
Forcing turnovers, not missing tackles, not missing assignments, not losing men in coverage. It seems to be that you're caught up in the sexy plays - big hits. Teo almost never makes mistakes. He's as solid as they come. You also lose credibility when you state that Teo has not done this before considering he was a 2nd-team all-american last year.
I heard that some years ago about Aaron Curry as well. Wake Forest LB, drafted top 10. Already cut twice is his first 4 years.
~Because we couldn't go for three~
That seems like an appropriate sample size.
7 INT's for Te'o, no forced fumbles. 1 INT and 3 FF's for Shazier. Three more turnovers.
And you are right, I do get caught up in the sexy plays, like Tackles for Loss and Yards lost. Oh and sacks too. I find those to be pretty sexy.
And yes, solid. He is solid. No argument here. Shazier has been spectacular at times and he's growing into his role.
I get what you are saying about Te'o. He's a great player who had a really strong year but other than the INT's, shazier has him whipped on every statistical front.
4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off
Shazier forced more fumbles this year than Te'o.. In fact Te'o didn't force a single fumble. Plus he's playing MLB, his position is more likely to experience passes over the middle, which can in part explain his INT numbers. Te'o had a fine year, but Shazier had 17 fricking TFLs, that's insane.
The solos speaks volumes as well. 17 more solos is a ton. Te'o averaged 4.33 solo tackles per game, Shazier beat him out by 4 games worth. RDS was a one man wrecking crew and he doesn't even know what he's doing yet.
4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off
Part of the difference in solo tackles in the quality of defense and players are them. Teo is surrounded by other very good defensive players. Shazier not so much.
Who do you think opposing teams were gearing up to stop week in and week out against OSU? He still got his. A lot.
4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off
I think they were gearing up to stop the Dline.
Says the scum fan
GO BUCKS
to whom are you referring to?
~Because we couldn't go for three~
Really? I have actually heard a former NFL exec (Michael Lombardi) say that he would pick Jarvis Jones over Te'o without a doubt. I am sure Te'o will go high in the draft, but I think Shazier will too.
vacuuming sucks
Let's also not forget the Notre Dame played a much more difficult schedule than we did.
So? Te'o played on a better defense too.
4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off
Exactly, which explains some of the difference between individual stats.
On the contrary. Te'o had the advantage of playing behind a better defensive line that should have opened up more for him. Teams took their chances with Te'o and opted to scheme against other players, specifically the monsters they had up front. Te'o should have done more. Shazier was the focal point for opposing offenses the second half of the season and they couldn't stop him.
4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off
Yes, because nobody schemed against Hankins and Simon....
I said that huh? Cool. Words in mouth, got it.
Both players had the advantage of having other good defenders on their unit-that's generally what comes with the territory at OSU, and sometimes ND. You can have the guy who never misses a play but doesn't do a lot more than what is expected of him. Shazier played young this year, Te'o played like a senior. Shazier impacted the game more, simple as that. TFL, passes defended, sacks, and INT's. I'll take the guy who flashes brilliance and has his arrow pointing up each week over the guy who waited three years to make a play.
4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off
You do realize Notre Dame has at least two future 1st/2nd round picks come April on their D-Line?
I like to believe that my best hits border on felonious assault.
JACK TATUM
This second half of the season Ryan Damn Shazier has been the best linebacker I've watched all season. That is not close to being true of the first half of the season. I would just say I don't think it's fair to call them not even comparable at this point.
Shazier's a monster!
114 Tackles, 17 TFL, 5 Sacks, 3 FF, 10 Passes Defended, 1 INT, 1 TD.
Let's compare his Soph. seasons to all 3 of Laurinaitis' AA seasons.
'06: Nagurski Award. 115 Tackles, 8.5 TFL, 4 Sacks, 5 INTs, 7 Passes Defend(PD), 3 FF.
'07: Butkus Award: 121 Tackles, 8.5 TFL, 5 Sacks, 2 INTs, 3 PD, 0 FF
'08: Lott Trophy: 130 Tackles, 7 TFL, 4 Sacks, 2 INTS, 1 FF, 6 PD
I'd say Shazier's #'s stack up, if he can replicate or expand on his stats from this year he'll definitely be a Butkus finalist. I think if he had a couple more INTs he would have gotten recognition. That's basically the only thing other than leadership I hear whenever someone talks about Teo, are his 7 INTs.
Now with a big10 Championship and Bowl game next year(14 games compared to 12), assuming Shazier stays healthy... I can see him putting up:
140 Tackles, 22 TFL, 8 Sacks, 3 INTs, 4 FF, 12 PD
Stats can be extremely misleading, especially when a good player like Shazier plays on a bad defense. It's not a whole lot differnt from when Kovacs had loads of tackles for Michigan his sophmore year. If there is nobody around you making plays, you're going to end up making a lot of them.
None of that logic applies to 17 TFL. Also, this defense is NO WHERE near as bad as some of those recent UM defenses.
Damn! that Damn shazier gets into the backfield. 17 TFL is nuts
O'Deez330
stark county football
That's only in 12 games too. Had we been able to play in the B1G Champ and Bowl game, depending on how big of games he had, he could of finished aroun 20-25 TFL. Not too shabby.
Shazier puts up huge numbers, but he is still refining his game. The LB spot is just as much about huge impact and nubmers as it is not making mistakes. Unfortunetly, Shazier has a lot of missed tackles. Don't worry though, he is only a true sophmore, he's gonna kill it as he matures even more.
Agreed, and I'm not saying Shazier should be considered for the Heisman, but neither should Te'o. As expected, people are asking the usual question "Where would ND be without Manti Te'o". Given that their schedule was a flop, I'd argue that they are a 10 win team still. Regardless, the Heisman isn't an MVP. Its the most outstanding player. You mean to tell me a guy who simply made every tackle in his way stood out more from a guy who practically lived in the opposition's backfield? Child please.
Skip Bayless' piece was a real piece too, lemme tell you.
4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off
ND's schedule a flop? They beat three teams in the BCS top 20, two of them in the top 12.
ND has a top ten most difficult schedule, no one can question they have a tough schedule. CERTAINLY tougher than ours.
Oh it was hard, but at the start of the season it looked worse. Michigan, Sparty, USC, and Miami were all busts this year.
Stanford and Oklahoma are about as tough as they come. They had a rough road all year but it wasn't nearly the slaughterhouse it appeared to be before week 1 kicked off.
4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off
I wouldn't vote for Te'o in a Heisman race. I think other players have stood out more than him as well. But there is a good reason to say Te'o is a better LB than Shazier this year (notice I am not claiming eventually).
Shazier may be better when he is a senior, but it isn't all about stats. Te'O is the leader of that team and its ND!! I wouldn't vote for Te'o this year either but he would get it way before Shazier.... and I am a huge RDS fan!!!
The only stats that matter in football are team stats. Toe was clearly the best player one on of, if not the, best defenses in college football. Shazier was not.
First half of the year Shazier was a bad tackling play-overrunning machine.
Second half he was a stud.
Cant begin to express how excited I am about how much better he got. He has always had the physical skills and ballhawks mindset. If he improves even further, wow.
I think Shaziers real test will be next year, when our block eating D line leaves and he isn't quite at free to roam around and make plays.
I think he will excel but we can only know so much.
~Because we couldn't go for three~
The Te'o for Heisman talk is probably a bit much, but I wish people would look at more than just strait stats. There are things about defensive players that can't always be quantified by just numbers alone.
If we're going to talk about stats though, by far the most deserving LB of a trip to New York is Jarvis Jones and it's not even close. Dude only played 10 games, and the 2 he missed he certainly would of had big days. He missed against UK and Florida Atlantic.
In 10 games he had 71 tackles, 19.5 TFL, 10.5 sacks, 1INT, 2 fumble recoveries, 30QB hurries, 6 forced fumbles. The joke of this whole LB for Heisman talk is that Jones isn't the LB being hyped. If he doesn't win the Butkus award, and he probably won't with all the Te'o for Heisman talk, that award is a joke and they should stop handing it out.
Shazier had a great year and will have his time in the lime light the next two years but Teo plays for the beloved fighting Irish who are going to the national title game. He's been on te big stage more than Shazier which plays a huge role in the whole heisman thing. I think it's silly that Teo's a hesiman contender but I do think he's a great player and leader on perhaps the best team in the country.
The whole "Shaziers better bcause he has better stats" is a bit ridiculous IMO.
Run_Fido's favorite word is strawman.