Wanted to get some opinions on the return man position. What do you like to see out of a kick / punt returner?
-A younger guy getting some playing time?
-4.3 forty speedster?
-Sure handed / trusted skill position player that won't muff the kick?
-Big powerful bruiser?
-Any guy who has big play potential?
Let me hear your thoughts.
Teddy Gin Jr. clone. I literally mean lets clone him and put him out there.
"if irony were made of strawberries, we' d all be drinking a lot of smoothies right now."
^Agreed. Fast/long strider/quick burst. Of the current roster I really like Rod Smith returning kicks, he's big enough the shed some tacklers and fast enough to break one.
Jalin Marshall would be a good fit there, especially if he continues to display the tackle-shedding elusiveness that "Mr. Excitement" has been so apt to do.
Honestly, Denard Robinson is going to be the next Josh Cribbs in the NFL. Dude's got tremendous vision in finding creases, and has otherworldly acceleration.
@Hodge - As a Browns fan, I'm wholly opposed to your comparison, but I agree that he could be a solid return man in the League. Cribbs, however, has an ability to run through tackles with no fear, whereas I don't see DRob contributing in quite the same way.
To be honest, Braxton Miller wouldn't be a bad return man either with his shiftiness.
"No way, Denard will be a starting NFL quarterback and not some gimmicky wildcat guy or converted kick-returner/receiver" ----- said by no one
I like different types for kickoffs vs. punts.
For kickoffs, I like a guy with great speed who will hit a seam hard, maybe break a tackle, then off to the races. Cribbs was like this. He still runs hard and fearlessly, but seems to have lost a step.
On punts, I like a quick, shifty guy (a la Denard), who can make the first guy miss, and then accelerate.
@URBZRENEWAL - Agreed wholeheartedly, though I think that Miller would be better on punt returns than kick returns, his top end speed isn't as good as a Cribbs/Robinson/Hester, though he'd still be formidable.
@TENN - Preaching to the choir is one of my great strengths.
Earle, it seems like Jalin, Zeke, and Taivon could potentially fill those roles next year.
Rod Smith isn't doing badly as a kick returner even though he lacks that elite speed. I was getting frustrated watching Devin Smith returning punts. His speed is fine, but he doesn't seem to have the vision and moves to really make people miss.
Yeah, I like Rod on KO's because he doesn't mess around, even if he doesn't have the top end speed. Excited to see some of the other guys. Despite Cory Brown's punt return earlier this year, we don't seem to have a real weapon on punt returns. Maybe that's why we go for the block so often.
Agreed @Hodge, you have to usually make one guy miss to get a good gain on a PR. Kickoff's are more vision and explosiveness, punts are shiftiness.
where is waycracken for the Timmons talk? lol
"Winter is coming" - Urban Meyer
As for current buckeyes, I like Rod Smith as a kickoff returner. He has that straight line, bull rush speed. Kick return for a TD is nice but a guy that will practically guarantee a run to the 25 would be great. I just don't like a guy who tries to be tricky that first 20 yards and tries to find a seam. Run as fast as you can for the first 20-25 yards and then try to do something amazing. It also helps having a guy who is really good at knowing when not to go!
Punt returns is any guy who can hold onto the ball. I don't care if he can dart any which way he wants, just don't drop the ball or lose yards! Hester is amazing because he can go backwards but you will rarely see him lose a yard. He knows when he needs to give up on the TD. In that regard, I do like Philly because he knows how to be smart. Haven't had a fumbled punt return in a long time.
With special teams, I guess I am a Tressel guy. Don't F it up! Let the O and D do the work.
^^^ Totally agree about punt returners. Give me a guy who will never drop it, lose yardage, or make the wrong decision when making a fair catch/letting the ball go any day.
I've liked Rod Smith on kickoffs for the same reason as you. He never breaks the big one, but he has gotten 20-30 yards on every single return. I definitely prefer consistency over the occasional big play.
Unless you have a guy like Teddy, I always liked having the back up running back do it. It gets him some experience on the field as a younger player and keeps your starters fresh. I think it is a similar skill set since you really are looking for the hole and then trying to shoot through it. PRs I kind of like having a WR or CB guy do it. Those quick twitch first step guys to make someone miss.
If I'm choosing from this team, this year I too keep Rod Smith. He's done well and it gets him valuable experience running the ball. If you can hold on to it during a kick return you can hold on to it during a rush.
I know there's a game saturday, and my ass will be there.
Someone who has the capability of breaking one loose, any time he touches the ball...
KR: Smith, I like his work back there
PR: the fastest guy who can dodge a wrench
When told OSU set school record for 50+ games this year, UFM said "That's good. We're gonna break that next year."
KEN-YON RAMBO
the kids are playing their tail off, and the coaches are screwing it up! - JLS
Taivon Jacobs is an excellent kickoff and punt return player.
One of the reasons he was recruited.
definitely a 4.3 speedster. Yes taivon jacobs, corn elder or timmons would be good for kickoffs. Timmons would be perfect for punt returns.
It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog
I'm also in on the 4.3 speedster, but must have lateral quickness as well (Anyone remember speedster Brandon Saine?). Urban said on his show he's looking for a 4.25 guy... Maybe there's none in this class, but my bet is on Taivon Jacobs to return most likely next year. I still like Philly Brown for PR and Rod Smith for KR this year.
Someone with great speed, lateral quickness, vision and ball security. There are so many that will be coming in 2013 and some that may be joining the class. Jalin Marshall, Zeke Elliott, Jacobs, Quick, Timmons, Larue would make great returners IMO.
Theodore Ginn, Jr.
"You win with people." - Woody Hayes
"You win with people." - Woody Hayes
Rod Smith on one side and Ryan Timmons on the other
Roby should get a chance at least once
Chris Fields is a viable option I think. His smarts and tackle breaking set up Kenny G on his drive into bukeye lore.
~Because we couldn't go for three~
Since Buckeyebrowny919 asked. Teddy Ginn ultimate. One most like Teddy is Timmons. Jacobs is close as well. Jalin Marshal would be good better strength but not the explosion. Zeke and Marshall would get good field position but Timmons is more likely to break the long one. JMO
"4.3 forty speedster?"
Ideally, yes. In my mind a great K/P returner doesn't need to be able to break a lot of tackles, they just need to be able to see a seam and hit it fast with great speed + acceleration. As others have mentioned, TG Jr and Devin Hester were the two best I've ever seen at the collegiate level, and they didn't break a lot of tackles, they just hit the openings and had elite speed + acceleration (if you go back and watch TG's tape, he had a 0 to 60 unlike anyone I've ever seen).
Rod is great for now, but I don't think he has the top-end speed + elusiveness you'd want out of your ideal returners. To me he's a perfect fit at RB, though (decent speed + YAC ability).
I was a bit disappointed we didn't get Davonte Neal last year, he fits the mold perfectly (which is why he's starting as Notre Dame's punt returner). Taivon Jacobs fits it excellently this year, though!
I agree Timmons would be perfect, but i do not think he is like teddy ginn. Ginn had long fluid strides and he had amazing straight line speed. I dont really didnt see the vertical crazy jukes like braxton or timmons have. Taivon jacobs is more like ted ginn. oh and by the way jalin marshall has plenty of explosion.
Edit- I am basing this on highlight videos so take it fwiw
It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog
Yeah, I'll pretty much watch Tedd Ginn, Jr. highlights whenever they're available. Dude was silly smooth.
I'll take the speedster!
DEB II
I don't think you need to run a 4.3 to be a great return man, you just need to be shifty enough to make two people miss and fast enough to outrun a kicker. That's what made Hall a good returner before he went down...and I'm pretty sure he could dodge a wrench...
"The revolution will be televised."
4.21
He can dodge a wrench but can he dodge traffic?
James Quick is exactly what we need
Exhibit A: (head about 20 seconds in)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJGSyI02PDs