PHONE'S RINGING -- IT'S URBAN ON THE LINE
Father of The Game. A genius. A tremendous record of success. Know and respect, the eneMy:
The original Bobby Petrino! (great coach with questionable ethics who bounced around from school to school, until Michigan at least for Yost) The point-a-minute offense must have been something to watch back then.
When looking at the program before and after he arrived (both times) Bill Snyder might be the greatest coach of all time. Just amazing. I used to dog him for his non-conference schedule but the Big 12 is still a good league. Also, his recruiting classes are average, AT BEST. Incredible.
That's a funny way of spelling "Bobby Bowden"....
4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off
Haha! Except for the bouncing around part, nice.
I don't think there's any conclusive answer to this; since every generation has its own pinnacles. I'd say Fielding Yost and Knute Rockne would proably be the greatest of their generation (up to the '30s), Robert Neyland was probably the pinnacle of the '30s to the '50s, Bear Bryant takes the cake from the '50s to the '70s, I'd give it to Tom Osborne and Bowden from the mid-'70s through the '90s. Right now, it's Nick Saban, with Urban Meyer close at his heels.
Some near misses:
Woody Hayes ('50s-'70s)
Bo Schembechler ('60s-'80s)
Barry Switzer ('70s-'80s)
Darrel Royal (mid '50s-mid '70s)
I think Schem is overrated. Never won a national title and struggled in the Rose Bowl. Did well against Ohio State, though.
DAAAMN. Point taken.
Ya, but again, you end up in murky territory about what makes a great coach. I guess I'm looking for someone who revolutionizes football. Whether in scheme, like the West coast offense, the wishbone, the zone blitz, etc-or in approach-when Miami and FSU started caring less about what kind of kid their players were-branching outside of accepted coaching and recruiting norms, etc.
Leahy coached in a simplistic era of football. Could he have been able to adapt to the complexity of today's game and rules? Could Urban Meyer have not outsmarted himself in an era where the forward pass was taboo? Could Nick Saban have over signed in the 50's? Who knows.
I really hate this question. Player to player comparisons are a little better but because the way this beautiful game of ours evolves, its just so hard to find guys who can travel across time and be the same dude.
That's true, because they can't. Like you, I don't think there's a definitive answer to this--and cross-generational comparisons dont work for me, either. It'd be better to compare Leahy to Neyland (I'd consider them both to be standard-bearers of their generation). I still say that it's more of a generational comparison than anything else.
Also: Larry Kehres, anyone?
I vote larry kehres. Being in stark county I know a lot about him n mount union n saw a quote from him saying I make my practices so hard that the games seem east when we play. Hmm pretty sure urb said the exact same thing when it comes to practice go bucks go ourple raiders.
stark county football
That guy is incredible. I believe his son coaches for him also. Also, anyone who tries out for the team makes it.
Hard to argue that there is anything closer to a dynasty in CFB, even if it is Div. III.
I think Larry Kehres is actually a great answer..the man can flat out coach. And the sheer dominance that Mount Union has shown during his tenure is mind blowing.
I once went to the College Football Hall of Fame in South Bend and while walking around noticed the various display cases of national championship banners, trophies and other memoribila from all the other NCAA programs..But when I got to the Mount Union display it seriously took up an entire room!! Absolutely breathtaking.
“Right now, Michigan is not at the pinnacle of college football, and that’s all Urban Meyer cares about...He’s been there and knows what it takes to get there.”
Its like trying to say who the smartest person of all time. Newton was a genius at his time, but if he sat in on a modern day upper level physics class, he would have no clue what they were saying. Could the 2012 buckeyes beat Notre Dame's "forward pass" offense? I think it would be an 80 point blowout. Does that make Knute Rockne any less of a coach? I think @hodge and others have it right; you can fairly assess the best coaches of an era or decade, but beyond that, comparison becomes fairly difficult
Ya, its really too hard to give an answer to this. Fielding Yost's scheme and approach would be brutalized by Bowden's FSU team's while Bowden wouldn't have the type of players at his disposal were he to have coached in Hayes' era. Woody's offensive approach and demeanor probably wouldn't work with players of today. Its an utterly impossible question. I just like Bobby from where I sit as a 29 year old who witnessed some of college football's greatest teams coming out of the NFL factory in Tallahassee.
Barry 'The Best team Money Can Buy' Switzer? That would have to have an asterisk behind it for clarification in my opinion.
No Walter Camp, or John Heisman?
Which gets into the greater question of generation gaps. People are quick to assume that the older something is, the better and a lot of times people are less willing to accept present day things as better than their predecessors. I have this fight with my dad on a weekly basis when the Bears play. He's convinced there is no better linebacker in NFL history than Dick Butkus while I take the approach that there is Ray Lewis, then Brian Urlacher, then everyone else.
At that time, both of those coaches were the toast of the sport, but does their coaching ability transcend to today's fast paced, complex game? I don't think so. I just have a hard time believing that a guy who coached in the early stages of college football would have any amount of success in today's game. No sport has undergone more facelifts and dramatic, seismic shifts than football at both levels of the sport and coaches have adapted with it. The guys that coach today are so far ahead of anything the coaches in the early years of football could have ever imagined, I just can't see that approach working today.
Oh I wouldn't deny that past coaches may have a problem coaching today's current game, but Hell John Heisman had a Ga. Tech team that put up 222 points and over 1,000 rushing yards in one game. I would have to agree with your dad on Butkus, he's the greatest LB ever. Ray Lewis is disqualified anyway because he's a murderer, and because I'm a Browns fan.
Lewis was never charged with murder my friend.
As for the Butkus thing-I get the love for him, especially in Chicago where older fans refuse to acknowledge anyhing beyond 1985. Urlacher has Butkus' size, lacked his 'ferocity' because he's not allowed to have it in today's game but is the greatest athlete to play the position. As for Ray, I get that he's a hated guy but no one took over games from the middle of a defense like him. I feel as though MLB is one of the few positions in football with no argument about the best ever. I just have a problem giving the nod to anyone I've never seen play-with that said "Best ever" should be "Best I've seen".
+1 on Lewis. The guy kills someone, and now is the face of the NFL? There is something inherently wrong with that picture. But dudes that smoke a little grass are crucified? Messed up!
I'm sorry but you don't get to plead out of a murder if you actually killed someone. The guy may not have been a saint but a murderer he is not.
If I recall, his buddy took the fall for that one. Only a couple of people know the real truth, Ray and his buddy being the main ones, and they aren't going to say a word, ever. The problem you have is that perception becomes reality, and the overwhelming perception is that Ray got away with murder.
We don't live in a society where a guy who can be convicted of murder cops to obstruction of justice and gets 12 months probation. There is a reason he couldn't be convicted for murder, my guess is because he didn't do it. Now if his boy took the heat for him (Ray testified against him for the record) that's a different story all together but we have no way of knowing it. No matter how unlikeable a guy may be, assuming he got away with murder is a leap I can't make because the drop off from murder rap to obstruction is too far of a fall for me to think anyone had any reason to believe HE did the killing himself.
It's one of those cases where the truth will never be known and speculation about what really happened covers all ends of the spectrum. Not that it is in any way like the JFK murder, but look at all the different theories there are for that? Will we ever really know what happened? Very doubtful. The same can be said about Ray and his night out in Atlanta.
Considering that Lewis admitted to lying to the cops in order to mislead them, as well as the fact that the white suit he was wearing somehow magically disappeared, yeah I'd say there was more to it than just obstruction of justice. Obstruction of justice also doesn't explain why he settled with one of the victims' families out of court....
I'm not saying he wasn't guilty of obstruction of justice, clearly he was by his own admission. My point is that the assumption that he himself committed the act isn't based on much more than dislike for the guy. Everything else is speculation. Personally, I don't speculate that a guy is a murderer when he was able to plea all the way down to Obstruction (which though a serious charge is not murder), no matter how unlikeable he is-for the record I do like Ray. He isn't the same punk kid who got into trouble that night in Atlanta.
My point will always be the drop off. Murderers generally don't get to plead from "Yes I killed him" to "No I didn't" if there is proof he killed him. Since there is no proof he did, its only fair to say he didnt.
As for the settling-becuase it was the right thing to do? Being partially responsible for a murder and being a murderer are two different things. The guy may have ended up losing a civil suit but burdens of proof are drastically different. He was probably advised that he would have lost a civil case but again, that doesnt mean he's a murderer.
I think Ray is just as innocent as OJ.
But your comparison across generations isn't a totally fair one to make, either. Fielding Yost and Urban Meyer could face off and Meyer would take him to the woodshed--but at the same time, so could Ron Zook. Just because the game's evolved and become more complex, you can't just definitively say that one is better than the other. I think you kind of have to weigh what they accomplished vs. the status quo of their times. For example, was Knute Rockne introducing the forward pass more monolithic to the early days of football than Meyer's "spread to run" was to the modern era?
I do believe that it is fair to say that modern football coaches are--with the tools at their disposal (themselves the aggregate of many years of evolution by various innovators), they could run circles around any of their forefathers. Again, I don't think that you can judge "greatness" by that, though; you need to look at how well they exceeded the status quo.
with the tools at their disposal (themselves the aggregate of many years of evolution by various innovators),
with the tools at their disposal (themselves the aggregate of many years of evolution by various innovators),
Bingo. As someone said earlier, Newton was a genius for his time, but would be lost among today's physicists. Yet today's physicists have been given a boost up the ladder because of Newton and his work. Much as Newton was by his predecessors.
Would we have a Mike Leach or a Chip Kelley without Knute Rockne developing the forward pass?
How about rewording the forum question as "Who is the greatest coach of each decade?"
"Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read." - Groucho Marx
Best coach in terms of fundamentals is Nick Saban. His players do not make mistakes. In terms of overall lifetime achievement, I give Urban Meyer the edge over Saban. Urban went against the status quo, and worked his way up from volunteer work at St. Xavier High School, to assistant at OSU, to assistant at ND, head coach at BG, Utah, Florida, and finally landing at his dream job. He's won two BCS championships, and has also lead two other schools to undefeated seasons. Saban had the advantage of being the son of Lou Saban. Urban had no such advantages.
When Urban wins a BCS bowl next year, he'll be the only coach to have won BCS games at three different schools. There's only one guy who has done that at two schools: Saban.
Best coach right now? Hard to go against the consitency of Saban. But the lifetime achievement award certainly goes to Urban Meyer.
It's hard to argue against the fundamentals of Saban. Would our team have all those missed tackles this season if he were the coach? Probably not. I know Meyer doesn't coach defense but he is still the head coach. What Meyer has done with the spread is amazing. It was around before him but his way of adapting it and continually improving it speaks to his preparedness and keeping a step ahead of opposing defenses.
Of course it absolutely depends on your criteria (and the ones for Meyer and Saban are excellent) but I still contend that what Bill Snyder has done makes him the greatest coach of our generation, if not all time. Part of my evaluation in that is that he literally "coaches" his players up. That is what a coach is supposed to do. He puts them in the best position to succeed as well. I just think that by maximizing players' skills and positioning them correctly along with his mentality and discipline speaks volumes for the kind of coach he is. He turned around the worst program in college football history. Doing it twice also proves that it wasn't a fluke.
Greatest college football coaches ever?
It begins and ends with 2 names, and 2 names only:
1.) KIRK FERENTZ
2.) BILL O'BRIEN
end of story.
"You win with people." - Woody Hayes
How does paul brown not qualify for this debate?
Great coach (obviously) but in my opinion he was not around the college ranks long enough.
I know his career has been short but I don't see how Urban isn't at least considered. He has won at every place he coached, he almost made a mountain west team a national champ, and that was before it was cool for their conference to get high rankings. He's won 2 titles in 11 years of being a head coach. He took a team that didn't fit his system that was bad last year and made them undefeated.
I also think Saban has to be mentioned. He's got a shot at winning his 4th National Title this year, that alone puts him among the best in history.
I thought Paul Brown was the greatest to ever coach the game of football?
"I like to kick Michigan's ass and chew bubble gum, and I'm all out of gum."
1.) John Embree
Last Place.) All the rest of the coaches
No mention of Lou Holtz, he was a very good coach who was groomed by Woody.
John Gagliardi at St. Johns University. Unorthodox style that has resulted in a massive amount of wins.
An angry fan...rooting for an angry team...led by angry coaches
though recently stained by scandal, i think you have to include tressel on this list as well. he does have 5 national titles to his credit after all (4 with YSU and 1 with tOSU). agree with the choice of Kehres, and i'm actually amazed that no larger schools have snatched him from Mount Union with his success there.
All the games of the season are just practices for that glorious saturday in November when we get to jack Shoelace's invisible cereal bowl and drink our fill of delicious skunkweasel tears ...Michigan Still Sucks!!
Bear Bryant, Paul Brown, Eddie Robinson, Woody Hayes.... there are lots of legendary coaches. I think the best all time would be decided based on who you root for and how much knowledge you have of coaches from other schools!!!
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