scUM applying for a medical redshirt for Gardner from his FRESHMAN YEAR!
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8677612/michigan-wolverin...
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I heard about this a few days ago and it's not likely they'll get it
Crap... I hope not. He is their best QB and I think he will be decent. Hoke was a moron for trying to put him at WR. Kid can play...
Given how little time he's spent at QB, I'd say he's done well. Still, he was not particularly impressive on Saturday. Probably room for improvement, but there are clearly reasons beyond Hoke's stupidity that he was playing WR for nearly the whole season.
Wait, I thought Gardner was coming back for next season. Is his eligablitly up after this years bowl game?
Yes there are two Buckeyes in Ann arbor on this site!
It would be to add another year after next. He came in one year after Denard and this would put him 2 years behind.
I think the reasons they want the redshirt for him are totally legit. If he only played miniscule minutes his freshmen year and then had a back injury the rest of the year, the redshirt is totally legit...BUT NOT after waiting 2 years to request it just because you now need him really bad.
If he gets it granted, I'll be none too happy. He played sparingly in a couple games in the beginning of the year as a freshman and then was "injured", but was seen warming up for games later in the year as if he was just fine and could've played.
He was healthy enough to play in TTUN's bowl game that year when they got smoked by Miss State... rich rod said so.
That's not exactly what's happening here. It's not "because we need him really bad."
There was a mix-up in the interpretation of the rules by the old staff, as well as the athletic department (bonehead move, fellas) . They were under the impression that they had to apply for it after his senior year, and it would be decided then.
They finally figured out that they were doing it wrong, and applied for DG's redshirt as soon as they did. It's idiotic how long it took. I'm pretty sure every Michigan fan who read anything knew the rules on this better than the athletic department did.
Here's an article that references it on SB Nation: http://detroit.sbnation.com/michigan-wolverines/2011/3/23/2067146/devin-...
That logic makes no sense. If it was the old staff who was waiting, why did it take Hoke nearly 2 years to apply for it? And only after they found out he was better at throwing than the arm punter?
The logic that they didn't want him to stay until they realized he was good doesn't work either. He was a 5-star QB. They're not just going to say, "Well, damn...you're actually talented. Let's keep you around an extra year." Ever since his freshman year, they've been talking about getting him this redshirt. RichRod said they were going to apply for it, Hoke said they were going to apply for it. Flat-out, someone made a mistake (I have no idea who), and the coaches were acting under incorrect information.
OK so going with your logic then that both staffs made mistakes.... Ignorance of the rule doesn't mean scUM should be allowed the redsirt. scUM screwed up and so you can't claim because we screwed up and always meant to do it all along as grounds to overlook the mistake and grant the redshirt because he deserves it. That is poor logic as well. It's the same principal in a court of law. Ignorance of the law is not a valid excuse for having broken the law. Same logic here I believe.
Because they wouldn't let me go for 3!
Woody Hayes 1913-1987
^This. Not because its *ichigan, but its true if they were that intent on trying to get his redshirt they would have someone do a little research. I also find it strange that its 2013 and they are now understanding of the rule. Did they never have a medical redshirt not occuring in the Senior year before?
As I said, it was a mistake. It was a dumb one - yes. I have no idea why it happened, or what the hell they were thinking. It feels botched.
Luckily, it was caught in time for the situation to, hopefully, resolve. No rules were broken. No deadlines were missed. Michigan is perfectly within its rights to submit this request. Frankly, I'd have no problem if OSU wanted to do the same thing under the same circumstances.
They'll judge it on the merits of the case (which could also be argued, but that's another story), just like they should. While they shouldn't grant it just because they've now figured it out, they shouldn't discount it just because it was submitted later than other requests.
A medical redshirt would make sense if he hadnt dressed/traveled late that year and wasn't available for the bowl game. As has been discussed that wasn't the case.
A lot of people who end up redshirting need to dress and be ready late in the year. The fact that he didn't play is all that really matters...
I'm not saying it's a good system. I'm saying that's the rule.
You need to read the rules on regular redshirts vs medical hardships. If he just wasn't playing then he could have received his redshirt that year, not 3 years later.
I understand the distinction, and I've read the rules. Just because he was available in the bowl game doesn't mean he's ineligible for a medical hardship waiver. He didn't play.
My argument isn't about the quality of the claim. I think it's a reach, and I think RichRod shouldn't have played Devin to prove a point to Tate Forcier. He very well could've cost Gardner a year of his career for nothing.
That said, if it's granted, it'll be following the letter of the rules - although not necessarily the spirit of them.
For a student-athlete to receive a Medical Hardship Waiver per Bylaw 14.2.4, the following four conditions must be met:
The student-athlete may not have participated in more than two contests or dates of competition or 20 percent of the team's completed contests/dates of competition.
The injury or illness must occur prior to the completion of the first half of the season.
The injury or illness does not have to occur during practice/competition, but it must be incapacitating.
Appropriate medical documentation must exist and be provided.
uh, not an "incapacitating" injury as he was available to play later in the season and the bowl game.
It's 30% of games now, but that's not what we're talking about.
What we're doing is splitting hairs over whether not playing is the same thing as being unable to play in the eyes of the people who make the decision to grant the redshirt or not. I don't know the answer. As I said before, I think it's a reach, and RichRod screwed Devin over.
I understand your interpretation, and you've provided some good info. We'll see if the board agrees with you.
I agree, how long have those staffs been working in college football?? You would think they would know the 'redshirt' regulations, if not... smart hires by tsun.
The rules actually have changed several times since 2007...and I doubt it's the coach's job to submit that paperwork. Odds are on someone else in the athletic department making a mistake.
Let him come back another year so someone can stomp on him in Ohio Stadium again like Boren did.
"Sherman ran an option play right through the south" - Greatest.Civil.War.Analogy.Ever
Wait how many years does he have left to play?
Because I couldn't go for three. -Woody-
He has one year left without the redshirt. If granted, he would have 2 years left.
I don't think he's that good. Going into the game people said he was great at the deep ball, but every highlight the wr he was throwing to was wide open. He floats a lot of balls (like his last INT) and isn't as accurate deep as people said.
He could get a lot better with an offseason in the 1 slot though
He is getting it most likely.
Who cares if he gets it. The All-World, savior HS quarterback Shane Morris will lead UM to an undefeated national championship next year.
/end sarcasm
Sorry Urban, Woody is still my favorite
This isn't really a new development. Rich Rodriguez had even stated after Gardner's freshman year that he would be seeking a medical redshirt due to a back injury that saw him either listed as doubtful or at best probable starting from about game 4 of that year. This is just the new coaching staff following through on the old coach's plan. It is my theory that Gardner was healthy as a freshman and Rich Rod wanted to get him game experience without burning his redshirt, so Gardner played in the first four games and then got a "back injury" so that he could use a medical redshirt to extend his eligibility. At that time it was becoming obvious that they couldn't count on Tate Forcier lasting at Michigan, which probably was motivation for getting Gardner the extra play time. This is only conjecture though.
This is pretty fair conjecture.
I think Gardner played three downs in the '10 opener versus UConn, when Denard Robinson got banged on a play and Tate Forcier was in the doghouse for one of his innumerable violations of team rules.
Then Gardner played a couple of series in a September 25 game versus Bowling Green, when Robinson, Forcier and Gardner all played. Gardner threw about 10 passes and ran for a td in that game.
I think those were the only two games that Gardner played in. Both in the first half of the season, and far less than the 30% of the season that the NCAA looks at as a marker.
Additionally, with all of the many questions about Gardner's medical redshirt, it was widely reported that the decision could not be made (nor could there even be an application) until the student-athlete's final year of eligibility. I don't know if that is true; does the completion of the 2012 regular season now puts Devin Gardner technically into his final year of eligibility? Don't know; whatever, it now seems to be happening.
In any case, while the issue might not be a clear winner for Michigan, there is nothing suspicious about this timing. Michigan was never holding back. My money is on Gardner winning a fifth year, given the really minimal play he was involved in during the 2010 season, and how they would have clearly documented an injury in the second half of that season.
I thought Tyler Moeller received his medical redshirt right away after his redshirt sophomore year.
I say go get it if you can. I'd want the same for any Buckeye looking to extend their eligibility.
If what JMO stated about his playing in a bowl game is true, I don't think he will get the redshirt. According to Wikipedia dicussing elegibility "A special case involves the eligibility of a player who loses the majority of a season to injury. Popularly known as a medical redshirt, a hardship waiver may be granted an athlete who appears in fewer than 30% of his or her team's competitions (with none coming after the midway point of the season), then suffers a season-ending inury. A player who is granted such a waiver is treated for the purposes of his or her eligibility as though he or she had not competed in that season". I take that to mean he could've only played in games prior to the midway point of the season. Anything playing time after that would not have made the injury season ending. If I am reading that wrong, or not stating it correctly, please let me know.
He didn't play in the bowl game... But he was healthy enough to play.
http://jacksonville.com/sports/college/2011-01-01/story/gator-bowl-noteb...
"Hopefully Denard is healthy, if not Devin is ready to go"
Would he look good in a red shirt?
O H I O is the Buckeye State
On MGoBlog, people close to the program believe he won't be getting the redshirt.
/Duff'd It
I know this is an online forum and many times people will say "they know such and such close to the program". However, (1) living in the town up north, and (2) long story short, happen to have talked to the head of u-mich sport medicine, (first met through mutual acquaintances) who happens to be on the B1G Board of Sport Medicine, did reply to my question about this with... "every team has their agendas... and they won't get the resolution to their needs". I've known the man for a number of years and he never bs'd me - he know I'm an OSU guy. So that being said, would be very surprised if Gardner gets that extra year.
"...but then again 'Michigan' and 'huge mistake' are synonymous so that shouldn't have been much of a surprise to anybody." - Mark Titus
You could certainly be right, and I do not have any sort of inside information, but Hoke said in his opening remarks of the press conference Monday that they expect Gardner to get it. We'll see.
Those who stay will be CHAMPIONS!
~Bo Schembechler
Ok, but his warrant was "a gut feeling"
To be fair, that gut feeling could've just been the 6 sloppy joes, 4 corndogs, 2 banana cream pies and 1/2 lb of chili cheese fries he had for his pre-lunch snack.
"Every team has their agendas."
The fact that Hail2's comment has a downvote is absurd.
Help is on the way.
Thanks, rapping, but complaining only gets more downvotes for all involved. I expect to get some regardless of what is written. It comes with the territory and it's okay.
Those who stay will be CHAMPIONS!
~Bo Schembechler
I see he's limping around at the basketball game tonight wearing a some sort of soft cast or boot. Glad we got a piece of him Saturday.
suiting up and being ready in the bowl game is a big problem for them... It doesn't fit the criteria. waiting this long makes it sem worse.
good. Bring him back for (2) more years. He floats the ball and is inaccurate with a little pressure on him.
He should get it, but what a terrible coaching decision by Rich Rod to even play this kid to burn the redshirt originally.
It really doesn't matter one way or another. Our defensive line and for that matter the entire defense will get better and better starting in 2013. Gardner is nothing special. He is a typical college QB. Not a Braxton Miller or Johnny Manziel. If he gets the redshirt my only regret is that it will be one less year Shane Morris will not be in the sights of that defense.
So losing Simon, Williams, and Hankins (possibly) and replacing them with Spence, Washington, and Schutt (or others) is better right away? I know they're good and are projected to be great, but saying you'll be better after losing 3 great players would concern me.
Those who stay will be CHAMPIONS!
~Bo Schembechler
Losing Simon obviously hurts both on and off the field, but they played a pretty good game without him on Saturday. Losing Hankins is the big question. If he goes, which seems likely, the D-line will NOT be better next year. If he stays, they just might be. Spence has gotten most of the attention and definitely brings more speed off the edge than anyone starting this season, but I remember watching at least one play on Saturday where Washington blew right by Lewan and caused Gardner to fumble. I also look for Bennet to have a big year. He was set to be a starter before the groin injury, and then seemed to have a little trouble catching up to game speed. I think he comes on next year.
Our Dline will still be better than your "experienced" Oline...I'll leave you exhibit A below...enjoy;-)
See how well those "experienced" linemen did against freshmen....wonder how they'll do when they're sophomores. I love "seeing" proof as opposed to simple words on a screen....dont you hail???
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."
"I love football. I think it is most wonderful game in world and I despise to lose."
Woody Hayes 1913 - 1987
Do you know how quotations work? When you put something in them, it generally means they aren't what you say they are so for example, saying "experienced" is hinting that they aren't experienced. Of course that begs the bigger question-do you know what experience means? Michigan will be returning a lot of starters up front...sooooo you kinda fail on your own merits there.
Also-that was one play. The point Hail is making is that OSU has to replace a lot of experience. Do you disagree with that? Or did you want to use that gif for the 5th time in 5 days?
4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off
I'm just joking man....why do you keep flaming me every chance you get??? Aren't we fans of the same team...or do you just like making shitty comments and down voting me every other turn???? I'm "confused"
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."
"I love football. I think it is most wonderful game in world and I despise to lose."
Woody Hayes 1913 - 1987
I apologize if you see it as flaming. I disagree with you, that doesn't mean I seek you out and comment on everything you say. I also can count on 1 hand how many down votes I've dished out and I'm pretty sure none have been reserved for you.
4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off
Do I know how quotations work??? You see this as a disagreement....WOW. I see this a flaming...yes...you've insulted my intelligence before...frankly getting tired of it. As stated before....I don't mind debating....but when you go south and get shitty...I will always retort...sorry just my nature.
Yes tTUN has more experience...and our dline and LBs aren't. However...we have more skill as raw as it may be and we're going to be a better ALL AROUND team in 2013...especially "if" Gardner redshirts or gets an extra year...he's not as good as advertised (again....Just My Opinion). That clear it up my "quotations" that were in a joking manner????
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."
"I love football. I think it is most wonderful game in world and I despise to lose."
Woody Hayes 1913 - 1987
Why are you asking me if you know how quotations work? I asked you that. It isn't polite to answer a question with a question.
I keed. I keed.
I'll admit I took a cheap shot at you. I apologize.
4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off
Thanks for exhibiting a sense of humor...greatly appreciated with the apologize too. I mean no harm with Hail or his other tTUN pals (or anyone else for that matter). I just have to mess with them....it's in my blood...for that...I will apologize too...well sort of;-) Living through 2-10-1 will do that to you.
And I sincerely apologize if I've offended you over anything on this site. We should stick together being fans of the same team as well as being from the same state. Go Bucks and thanks for the post above.
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."
"I love football. I think it is most wonderful game in world and I despise to lose."
Woody Hayes 1913 - 1987
Fair enough. Go Bucks.
4-6 seconds from point A to point B and when you get to point B, be pissed off
Any update on this? Hall got his extra year, wondering if scum got away with this b.s. or if not yet decided.
Why is it bs? He has a legitimate case for obtaining a medical redshirt, even if it is a little late. During the change of coaching regimes, I'm sure this was the last thing on their plate.
Read comments above.
could be wrong, redstorm, but i don't think the ncaa makes a decision until after a player's eligibility is used up. so about this time next year (or a little sooner) he should know whether or not he gets to play another year
Moeller I believe was cleared sooner? It is medical so it might be a different process.
Well at least they will have a shitty year if it gets accepted
Thanks Gene....great point
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."
"I love football. I think it is most wonderful game in world and I despise to lose."
Woody Hayes 1913 - 1987
They could bring back Tom Brady but it won't make a difference!
"Because I couldn't go for 3"
They always find ways to keep their players in their programs. Not that Gardner is a huge difference maker. Saying Trey Burke could not have played in the NBA? Come on. They seemed to convince him he needed another year of scUM. From what he shows he would have been more ready than most that enter the NBA at an early age. It must be like Jonestown there. They drink an elixir that keeps them in a trancelike state. Example would be Mike Hart....
WTF are you talking about? Everyone rooting for Burke to stay was scared to death that he was gone. Mgoblog got a hold of a picture of his dorm room with everything packed up. Now I will admit that I thought that another year in college would do him quite a service (which seems to be the case), but he would've been fine. He was projected around 25th overall, IIRC, which is good but not great. Burke knew that and it was his decision.
What I'm really confused about, LouGroza, is why you care so much? There aren't a whole lot of differences from OSU to Michigan when it comes to all this nitpicky stuff. But, this time you're arguing that Michigan does some sort of voodoo to keep players around, while you have started more than one thread about Michigan's Rampant Attrition...which is normal, btw (see the thread about the 6 or 7 guys that are rumored to be leaving OSU).
I didn't downvote you for it, just so you know.
And what do you mean Mike Hart? The big 3 came back to win a title...they choked. Hart clearly didn't have what it takes to make it in the NFL, so why on earth would he leave early?
Those who stay will be CHAMPIONS!
~Bo Schembechler
I have to admit Hail, I'm kind of confused as well. I'm actually shocked that Lewan didn't jump and Hoke didn't try to say "hey kid, first round money is first round money, you can get your degree anytime" (the same I'm sure Urban did with Hankins). I just think we are all confused about why so many kids from scUM stay for their senior years WHEN they are projected in the first round (however I do agree with Trey staying, if you are BORDERLINE first round, you definitely stay, which isn't the case with Lewan). Just seems like Hoke knew he would only have one starting o-line men back, with a relatively inexperienced qb in Gardner, and a limited run game, so I'd imagine he didn't exactly try to make Lewan see what I said above. Just a observation, I'm sure IF (and I'll never be) a scUM fan, I'd be THRILLED Lewan was coming back, however, I'd still wonder the "why" behind the decision.
It was pretty well documented in the thread about Lewan coming back. At the presser, both Hoke and Lewan said that Hoke didn't try to sway Lewan into staying; rather that he provided information to Lewan to help him make his decision. Lewan reached out to Jake Long and Long even told Taylor is was his choice, but they discussed the reasons why Long stayed. Lewan said that everything Long said were all factors that he had been thinking about that made him feel like staying.
Those who stay will be CHAMPIONS!
~Bo Schembechler
Still just sounds odd....but to each their own. Be fun watching him lose to tOSU again next year, at home, the way it should be.
So now that Michigan realizes that their backup QB is worse than Joe Bauserman and their incoming 5* mouth runner is incapable of scrambling without getting decleated, they are now pushing for a Gardner redshirt season, two years removed? I smell desperation or
The plan has never changed. They didn't all of a sudden decide that they would go after a redshirt. Certainly not because of Bellomy's performance @ Nebraska and Morris' illness-riddled senior year and lackluster performance in the UA game.
Those who stay will be CHAMPIONS!
~Bo Schembechler
what ever you say, bro. Some people see through Brady Hoke a little easier than those who wear Sun and Blue tainted glasses.
You are clearly incapable of giving an unbiased opinion. Lay off a little bit buddy, it's college sports...
Not here to troll...Go Blue
Most people on this site don't fit the ohio state fanbase stereotype and can hold civil, educated conversations or debates with unbiased fact and speculation...You on the other hand?....
Not here to troll...Go Blue
I don't have any available cares left, to sacrifice one, listening to a Michigan fan telling me an appropriate way for me to be myself.
that's what i was thinking hail. i remember reading something about hoke's staff being unclear on the policy for applying for the medical redshirt. add to that everything they had to do during their first year as a staff, and that goes down the priority ladder a bit. i don't sense anything fishy about gardner's redshirt application, but someone up north should have known that you can apply right after it happens, but they don't rule on it until eligibilty would potentially expire. if nothing else, hoke has proven to be a straight shooter. i doubt he's concocted some master plan behind the scenes to add to his own success by trying to hastily apply for redshirts and 'tricking' lewan into staying. it can't be said enough, what's good for the big 10 is good for tOSU. i'd be perfectly happy with michigan going 11-2 every year (loss in The Game and then the following week in the B1G champ game). makes our conference look better :)
Good. He floats the ball when going downfield. 3 picks for us in The Game next year.
I have no clue what the letter of the law is on medical redshirts, and I would be very hesitant to trust wikipedia very far.
Just want to point out, though, that for the purpose of defining the "season", the NCAA may not consider bowl games to be a part of that.
So it may not matter that Gardner was healthy enough to play in the bowl game.
I don't really have a problem with this. The kid has a LOT of potential but needs game experience. (Really makes me scratch my head why the Michigan coaches even for one second considered moving him to WR).
And by the time the game rolls around in Columbus in '14, he could be the current version of Tom Brady and they AIN'T GONNA BEAT THE BUCKS. That team is gonna be a juggernaut from top to bottom. Imagine the current Bama, but optimized in every way on Defense AND Offense.
Gardner was granted his redshirt. Garbage.
BREAKING NEWS: Devin Gardner was given his medical redshirt, granting him at least 2 more losses to Ohio State in his career.
Bummer, if they are going to win they need him. Rather not have them have a chance...
They could bring back Tom Brady and it wouldn't matter.
Really?
Those who stay will be CHAMPIONS!
~Bo Schembechler
It depends. Will they actually let Brady play this time or keep trying to pull him for Henson? lol.