Braxton Miller vs Troy Smith
I just watched the 06 OSU vs TSUN game and it raised a question: Will Braxton develop into as good as a passer as Smith was? Obviously Braxton is a better runner and is only a sophomore but Smith made some GREAT throws and had something like a 30/6 TD/Int ratio that season. I think with this offense Braxton won't throw as much as Troy did since he can run so good but just wanted your thoughts.
I don't know that any QB at Ohio State will develop into the passer that Smith was by the end of his senior year. He was a simply awesome college passer.
A lot of Braxton's issues are mental, but he also has some accuracy issues short and some touch issues long. if he improves his short game, learns to take the open flat when it's there, and puts more air under his deep balls then he'll be good enough that, combined with his running ability, he'll be the best player in college football.
He's never going to be a truly great passer though.
With his running ability, Braxton doesn't need to be a "great" passer, just an effective one.
"Buclkle your chinstrap, we're gonna grind meat!" - Woody Hayes
Maybe. I will admit that Braxton can have some really bad throws at times, but his WRs haven't been doing him any favors. Stoneburner, and Devin have dropped some perfectly thrown balls this season.
"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.
i thought joe germaine threw the ball better than any qb ive ever seen at osu... troy was just so icey, troy could do it all and was ultra clutch.
mark may wins douchebag of the year... again
The game they interviewed Troy smith they also did a comparison of their numbers and i was surprised that statistically Braxton's passing stats were not far behind this year. I was kind of shocked because I remember Troy being a gun slinger his senior year and i remember how much trust Tressel had in him to open up the play book. In retrospect his numbers are somewhat pedestrian by todays spread standards but Troy also didnt play in the wide open hurry up spread we see today. He also had 3 eventual 1st round draft pick receivers at WR on that team.
That being said I think we will see a huge step forward next year. He will have 4 senior returning starter Linemen to protect him, a very solid/ potentially great back in hyde to keep defenses honest, and returning playmakers he will be another year comfortable with.
The biggest thing however, is he will already know the offense and will get to spend the entire offseason working with his receivers while Herman pounds proper footwork into his muscle memory.
He is too good a runner to stop running like Troy did for the most part his senior year but that is natural and he can concentrate the next 10 months on becoming a leader and shoring up his footwork.
Hmm, good question. Is it possible that Braxton could reach that point? Yes. The difference between Troy's 2006 season and Braxton's season this year was: 1) Pass attempts (as you mentioned, he's on pace for something like 50 fewer pass attempts by the end of the year than Troy Smith's 2006 year), and 2) Scoring efficiency (irt passing, not rushing). Keep in mind that Troy went from 55% Completion Percentage in his limited playing time in 2004 (Sophmore season) to 65% by his 2006 season. Braxton is currently at 55%, so there's certainly a possibility that he could reach 65% by his Senior year!
I'd also throw in that I personally wasn't in love with Troy Smith's throwing mechanics until the latter half of the 2005 season, and fell in love with him as a passer by 2006. So QB's are definitely capable of making that kind of improvement! Also worth considering is that Troy Smith's 2005 season and Braxton Miller's current season have been strangely similar (Braxton having a significant advantage in rushing stats). It's not impossible that he could make the same strides between his Sophmore and Junior seasons that Troy made between his Junior and Senior seasons.
Troy was exceptional at throwing to spots. In other words, the receiver wasn't open at the time of the throw but Troy knew where the cut was coming, putting the ball on the money as the receiver came out of his break. The dbs mostly never had a chance. Braxton has to have an open receiver to make the throw today for the most part. That seems to be the difference in my view. Experience is the key to this and Braxton has the ability. He simply has to trust the throw and his receivers. Being only a sophomore, he will get there with the coaching he has.
Troy Smith at one time had Teddy Ginn, Brian Hartline, Anthony Gonzales, Ray Small and Roy Hall! I'm not putting down the recievers we have this year and they may someday be just as good but at this point they aren't even close. They simply aren't as good as Smith's recievers. Troy Smith's delivery and mechanics were much different than Miller's. That's not to say that Miller won't eventually be a better passer but I really doubt it. Also, Smith didn't run as much as Miller does because he simply didn't have to. His O-line was far better than this years. However this years O-line has done far more with much less talent than the 06 squad so it is debatable who's line is better. On one hand the 06 team had much better running backs than this years team does, not counting Miller.
I will say this though, Troy Smith in his Sophmore year compared to Braxton Miller in his was not as far along as Braxton is.
Smith had 4-5 NFL WRs to throw to during his time and I don't think we have that kind of talent at WR right now
Brax has the arm but not the same fundamentals. Troy's fundamentals just seemed ingrained and smooth. Braxton's biggest issue is his footwork but he shows glimpses of having the ability to make any throw on the field. I'm interested to see what Brax develops into as well. He'll have good coaching for sure, just as Troy had good coaching with Joe Daniels and Tress. When Troy was in his 2nd year on campus he was a redshirt freshman with no business being on the field. Troy was still rocky most of his redshirt soph year but turned in the big performance against ttun. It was not until the next year, his 4th on campus that he really started to blossom and turned into what we saw his senior year. Imagine Braxton, with top notch coaching, in year 4 at Ohio State...
In this offensive scheme I am not too sure we will ever develop a pure passer only because it is not needed. As long as the QB can put it up to 25 yards on the mark that will cover 98% of plays. Its the playmakers taking that 5-10 yd pass and breaking one long is the intangible. As Braxton's decision making improves so will the influx of other playmakers beside Braxton.
Troy Smith made some throws his senior year that were just friggin unreal.
Watch his last TD pass against at Iowa that year. That is a great example of not justa great QB, but a receiver who was in sync with his QB. All these guys bought into Tressel's playbook that year and did their jobs. I'm convinced that Troy Smith would have been a serviceable QB in the NFL if he'd had a coach like a Belichick or Harbaugh (which he did, for a time, and won the starting job, until a freak illness), the kind of coach that gets players to just do their jobs and buy into the system as opposed to coaches who get "playmakers" who don't run the play they're supposed to and try to be a hero on every play. When I see Russell Wilson having the success he's having in Seattle, I can't help but to think that that could have been Troy Smith in 2008 for the Ravens.
I would take Troy smith on my team as a QB anyday..
Troy didn't need to run as much because of his decision making. Troy saw the field extremely well, and would hit his receivers in stride. His mobility was used to buy extra time for the receivers, not to run first. Not bad for a guy who was the last choice commit in his class.
If Troy played in a little more aggressive passing offense his numbers probably would've been more ridiculous..dude could fling the rock. If he was 3-4 inches taller and 20 lbs heavier he would've been a first round pick.
I don't think Braxton will ever be as good a passer as Troy was..just my opinion though.
Run_Fido's favorite word is strawman.
Though Braxton is officially a sophomore, you must remember that he basically had no position coach all of last year, worked in an offensive system predicated on Jim Bollman trying to figure out how many people were allowed to be standing at the LOS, and spent all of this year adapting to a completely new scheme, O-coordinator, and head coach. He makes enough good throws to make me think that he'll continue to develop if we give him enough time. Whether he'll be as good a passer as Smith is hard to say (it will be a steep, steep climb) but he's shown improvement as the season has progressed and one can keep his fingers crossed ;)
"There is a force that makes us all brothers, no one goes his way alone." --Woody Hayes
Your actually spot on with your assesment of Troy Smith BuckeyeJason. If he would have been Braxton Miller's height, he would either be a starting Qb in the league now or a damn good backup. He also needed to be just a little bit heavier.
One thing that you can notice in the difference in the arm strength and the mechanics between Troy Smith and Braxton Miller is the out routes being thrown to the sidelines. Troy Smith could make that throw easily from the center position where as Braxton's passes to the sideline sail on him. Thats alot of the difference in their mechanics as well as arm strength. Braxton does however have a much better arm than what folks realize, it's just sometimes his mechanics take velocity off of his passes. He has 2 more years to correct that and I'm sure he'll get it done with a Qb coach that know's what he's doing. I imagine by Braxton's senior year, he's going to light it up because he'll have next year's reciever corps and this years accustomed to each other and it'll be more instinct than anticipation.
Troy Smith's RS Soph year game vs Michig@n in The 'Shoe was awesome. Such a change of direction from the lowest of lows that season when OSU was getting housed by Iowa 5 weeks earlier. It was a breakout game. I think Braxton has a good shot to top it, if he plays well.
Smith, in the 2004 OSU/Mich Game went:
13/23 for 241yards 2 tds and 0 ints
18 carries for 145 yards and 1 td
That was in a string of games when Michigan's defenses under LLLLOyd Carr could not stop dual threat QB's..... Armani Edwards, Drew Stanton, Dennis Dickson, Vince Young, Brad Banks, Troy Smith
Not as of yet...but he may...if he reads defenses better (and especially quicker). Otherwise he'll just be a better runner...IMO he's better than Troy now at that.
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."
"I love football. I think it is most wonderful game in world and I despise to lose."
Woody Hayes 1913 - 1987
I will be honest. I did not like Braxton as a Freshman and always wondered what all the hoopla was about. I thought he had no passing abilities at all and his other assets were not nearly good enough.
At the start of this year all I saw at first was an extension of last year except another year older. Slowly he began to change my mind. I began seeing a dominant rushing QB that was doing a little bit too much for himself.
By game 5 or 6 I began seeing a QB that made better decisions getting some other skilled players involved.
Today I see a QB that is now in my estimation probably playing at 70% as far as the level I am sure Coach Meyer want him to be at.
He still needs to improve on his decision making and short passing game with quicker recognition.
IMO a rating 1-100 he was a 15 at the end last year. Today I would put him at 70 No doubt in my mind next year the rest of his game evolves.
Braxton does need some more work on the passing game but I think the WR are more of a concern. The WR get open but not that often and the dropped balls can kill Baxtons confidence and probly why he decides to pull it down and run more often.
I have a gut feeling that the passing game will make some giant strides in "The Game" this Sat. tho
GO BUCKS
BEAT TSUN
O H I O is the Buckeye State
Both great players in different systems. BM has been w/current coaches for 11 mnths. Troy was w/coaches 4 yrs. I really do not like comparisons, how about Byars/Wells, Brockington/Archie, Big Kat/Spiels and so on. Just can't compare players from diff. era's to 1 another. How bout Cousineau/Merek
Decisions, decisions, decisions. Braxton needs to improve his decision making. He needs to make better & faster decisions. He'll never be a Troy Smith type of passer but if he makes some slight improvements has the potential to be the greatest QB in OSU history.
The world is full of kings & queens who'll blind your eyes & steal your dreams - it's heaven & hell - Ronnie James Dio.
I don't think Braxton is Much taller than Troy..maybe an inch. Not a big difference really..I was saying Troy probably would've projected better in the draft if he was 6'4 220+ instead of 6' 210.
Run_Fido's favorite word is strawman.
I was thinking Troy Smith was 5'10" but your right. He's 6'0". I think he just got a bad break and never really recovered.
^^^^ the Florida Game (his last in college) didn't help his draft stock either.
Santonio Holmes, Brian Robiskie a couple other receivers Troy had (to go along with 7/11 and Hartline and Hall).
The crazy thing was that the ENTIRE '06 offense except for Rory Nicol at TE was from Ohio.
Braxton has a LONG way to go to be a polished passer. His footwork leaves him at times. He sails easy passes and underthrows others. However, who do you trust on this team to consistently catch the ball? Corey Brown? (who had his own catching issues in previous seasons) Devin Smith is a homerun guy but he disappears a lot and drops quite a few. It's hard to compare the two because the talent is completely different around them and the scheme is very different as well.