I am sure the consensus on this board is that Alabama deserved a much more precipitous drop in the AP (and BCS). However, I am curious what is the national reasoning for this ranking. Surely not every AP voter is a dope. Alabama started the season with 7 straights wins against teams that have been shown to be absolute garbage. Then they get a decent win at home vs. Mississippi State. This is followed by one quality win at LSU. I do believe they deserve credit for this game even though they pulled the win out of their collective ___es.
And, of course, they lose last night to a redshirt freshman albeit very talented QB.
What have they done to earn a 4th place ranking?
Nothing is the correct answer. Media wants that slight chance of an SEC team slipping into the game..kidding, but only slightly
"Winter is coming" - Urban Meyer
You're not missing anything.
the voters are ignoring their responsibility to vote based upon this season and are allowing the past six seasons to affect their voting.
they have done nothing to deserve only dropping to 4th. If bama played a good game and A&M won on a last second field goal I would understand this ranking, but they looked like absolute garbage yesterday
What do you mean? I thought everyone only dropped three spots when they lost at home to a two-loss team?
The only thing surprising to me is that you're so surprised by this.
They would still dominate us, im not upset by it
I disagree BUck-i8 I think we would beat Bama by 10+ points. They can only run the ball (our strength) and I would take Braxton over Manziel anyday.
Shiiiiiit sorry, nick...fat fingers on my iPhone lol. Was going for a +1
"Winter is coming" - Urban Meyer
I'm not convinced Alabam could dominate any team in the top 5. let alone top 10. they have played a trash schedule with the exception of two teams. This is a college football poll at its finest........
I think its garbage that Georgia is now ahead of us after playing Auburn who probably would be in a dog fight with Illinois. I mean they got rewarded for beating a terrible garbage team. Not surprised by Alabama only dropping that many spots.
Purple Raider
I'm with Bolt. I half-jokingly voted for Bama as best team in the nation and provided the reason in the comments: Bama's still the best because they were the best last year and didn't win their division or their conference. That was sarcastic but I'm not surprised that the only dropped to 4th. It's stupid and frustrating but not surprising. It's just a double-standard and I think others will lose and Bama will be back in the title game. There's way too much football to be played.
I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with Nick. I believe with Braxton on the field anything can happen...but Alabama is a far more stacked and complete team than we are and I certainly wouldn't expect tOSU to win (let alone by 10+ points). And while I would take Braxton as well (mostly just because I'm biased and like him so much), Manziel was absolutely ridiculous last night. I'm not upset about it because what does it matter? If you think the AP is going to vote us #1 in the country if we go undefeated...I guess you'll be in for another surprise.
I am certainly not surprised...I was hopeful that sanity would somehow overcome the pervasive SEC bias. This post was more venting than anything. What I am surprised about regarding the national SEC bias is that the is not more of a backlash from the AP voters. There is clearly a backlash among the non-SEC college football fan populace. I was hoping the AP voters would relish the opportunity to vote against Alabama.
I do not know what the AP voter geography is but I would imagine it is distributed across the country fairly evenly. What I would expect is that voter geography would impact bias to the teams located in their vicinity. This study seems to support that.
I hear ya Stu.
If anyone thinks we're 37 points better than a fully healthy Michigan team, you're insane.
Who should be ahead of them? OSU is only team that possibly should be ahead of them. There aren't really any 1 loss teams I would put ahead of them.
it'll be interesting to see if we jump them after Wisconsin considering the schedules for the sec this week are as follows
Bama vs. Western Carolina
SC vs. Wofford
Georgia vs. Georgia Southern
Florida vs. Jacksonville St.
not exactly murderers row
The problem I have is not necessarily that Alabama is the 4th best team. That actually seems pretty legitimate, and I don't see anyone below them that has a better resume. My problem is that other teams don't get that kind of benefit. If it had been a team from any other conference, they would have dropped more than three spots. You can't make the drops arbitrary for some teams, and sensible for others.
I was upset at this, until I saw the true travesty here which is that Florida kept their number 7 spot after a second straight terrible-performance-almost-loss against a truly terrible opponent. Pathetic.
October 20th: National Kenneth Guiton Day
I guarantee we are still ranked behind Florida and Alabama in the computer rankings too. Jeff Saragin has us at 20th in the nation and they let guys like him have a say in the BCS it is quite ridiculous. I feel like most of the voters don't even watch the games they just vote and you ask what are you missing? You are missing that Bama is in the SEC and the voters love the SEC. I don't care if Notre Dame, Oregon, and Kansas State all go undefeated mark my word a 1 loss Alabama team will be playing for the national championship.
No there is no SEC bias : http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt12.htm
Having 6 of the top-10 teams from the SEC with a team that just lost staying No. 1 in the rankings isnt absurd. (WARNING SARCASM)
Voters should have to own up to their votes with detailed explanations.....this shouldn't be a closed ballot type of deal.
"Please, explain to the entire country how you justify that the previously-#1 team in the country, who trailed for an entire game and lost to a two-loss- #15 team AT HOME only drops three spots in the rankings. Please, we're waiting, with stale pop-corn in hand, for an explanation."
Something should really be done.
Edit: Still wordy.
"I'm One Bad Buckeye, and I approve this message."
who is more deserving of BAMA's #4 spot? they had a bad first quarter. they've killed everyone else. grown up.
Florida on the other hand. GTFO of the top 10.
I would have thought they would have dropped behind UGA and UF in the rankings. They are the best one loss team in the country but thats not saying that they are a lock for the SEC championship. UGA has the physical runners and passing game needed to beat Bama. But being the best one loss team doesnt constitute only dropping to 4 IMO. You lost AT HOME to #15 and you looked like garbage doing it. All the fears people had about that Bama team came true.
I dont think they will be at 4 in the BCS rankings tonight though. I think they could be more in the 6-7 spot. Meanwhile they really dont have any shot of making a significant jump in the rankings within the next two weeks since the last two games they play before the SEC championship are just like the other teams they have played with the exception of LSU and A&M.
http://www.pollspeak.com/component/option,com_psreport/Itemid,3/lang,en/p,46/r,T/s,21/t1,74/v,/w,12/
Idiots like Pete DiPrimio out of Fort Wayne are why Alabama is #4 and OSU won't go higher than #5/6. Guy has not had us ranked higher than #11 in the country all year. According to Pete, it seems like there's nothing we could do to possibly change his mind. Makes me laugh that one of the other people that has Ohio State ranked at #11 is out of Lincoln, Nebraska. Biased much? lol. I gotta say, I'm one of the few people who trusts the computers more than I do human voters. Convince me that the guys out of Nebraska and Indiana aren't biased.
Good thing Texas A&M is in the SEC now, had Bama lost to them last season when A&M was still in the Big12 they may have dropped to 5th LOL
What a joke!! The loss was at HOME
Nebraska is ranked 19th in the Sagarin poll
really?
Despite yesterday's loss, if you don't think 'Bama isn't one of the better teams in college football, then I don't know what to tell ya. Even tho they lost, they're still a top ten team, and likely top five team on any given Saturday.
Well yeah Nebraska is ranked 19th because the 63-38 loss to No. 20 Ohio State obviouslly means that Nebraska is the better team.
Once the BCS rankings came out the media refuses to aknowledge that we exist. Did you know that there are supposedly only three undefeated teams from BCS conferences? Nobody hears about us so they dont vote good for us. Its complete bs if you ask me.
Hell, I'm actually kinda surprised they didn't drop to #2.
"It's just another case of there you are". ~ Doc (1918-2012)
I don't have any issue with Bama only dropping to #4, although it's pretty clear now that they're no powerhouse this year. They still have the #1 scoring defense and #2 total defense, but in retrospect they've played only two decent offenses all year - they played well against Tenn, but got carved-up by T A&M. Bama has a good, solid offense behind a top-notch OL, but they're not very explosive. Right now, Bama would be 5 or 6 pt dogs to Oregon on a neutral field.
My issue would be with any SEC hacks suggesting that a 1-loss Bama, FLA, or UGA should be in the NCG game ahead of undefeated Oregon, K State, or Notre Dame. That would be absurd. It's beginning to look like the SEC might be a bit overrated this year.
Fortunately, we should get a little better clarity in coming weeks. Florida plays FSU and South Carolina plays Clemson.
I would agree with those of you that state Alabama is likely a top ten team. However, Alabama had done nothing through their first eight games to deserve the #1 spot. They rolled...over who? The best win these opponents have collectively is probably Michigan over Michigan State. When I said the Mississppi State win was decent, I take that back. They do not have a single quality win.
Alabama's schedule with the exception of LSU and A&M is absolutely pathetic.
In my opinion, there are numerous teams that have accomplished more than Alambama this year. They may, in fact, be a very good team. They may be able to beat anyone in the country. However, they have just one good win and haven't proven a damn thing.
What are you missing? Bama would probably kick the rest of the top 5 and our ass this year?
GO BUCKS! BEAT MICHAGAIN!
Past 6 seasons affects voting? ND, K-State, and Bama had a losing record at least once in the past 6 seasons!
/Duff'd It
4th place puts them at the top of the 1-loss teams. They're still ranked ahead of us. I'm not shocked or particularly offended by this. If OSU ends up 12-0 then I think they should jump Alabama in the AP.
Class of 2010.
@hucklebuckeye
How do you know that? Prove it.
it s unprovable to say Bama would beat OSU and the rest the top five. The only thing that is provable is that Bama would lose to Texas A&M, and beat the teams they've beaten. The teams they've beaten are just not impressive.
Not sure why anyone is surprised... This is the problem with allowing human votes... It's a flawed system and the new playoff system with humans picking the teams will be flawed.
Bama v Oregon or Kstate?
Who would you bet 10 grand on if you had to.?
Nfsaq
GO BUCKS! BEAT MICHAGAIN!
So to all of you who think that we should be ranked above Alabama. Which quality win ranks us above them?
The 31-16 throttling of UCF sans their best running back?
The 52-49 win over lowly Indiaina?
Or could it be the overtime win against Purdue?
The defense rests your honor
~Because we couldn't go for three~
@jester
what ranks Alabama above us?
the incredible win against Western Kentucky? Arkansas? Florida Atlantic?
Maybe it's the win against Ole Miss? Missouri? Tennessee?
Maybe Mississippi State?
They beat LSU, who is overhyped, and Michigan, who we will shortly beat. We've haven't lost at home, they have.
look at their schedule. Seriously, look at it. What ranks than above us? Above Florida State? Above Clemson? Above any undefeated?
Forget about conferences for a minute and actually look at who they have beaten. It is completely unimpressive.
@jestertcf What about our throttling of what has turned out to be a pretty good Nebraska team? They have only lost to UCLA and OSU. Did you forget that one?
Ohio State is undefeated with what is at least a comparable schedule to Bama and, in my opinion, slightly superior one. I do believe they deserve to be ranked ahead of Bama.
The LSU winm IN death valley, alone ranks them above us in my opinion. The Tigers have a stable of running backs and two defensive ends that will both go in the first round.
Without looking at conferances I see Saban rotate a two deep defense that could start on most teams in the rest of the country.
~Because we couldn't go for three~
We're ahead of Alabama based on ... the Indiana game? Purdue? Cal? UAB?
Alabama is better than OSU at every position with possible exception of QB, and the only time our QB is better is when the offense sucks.
We are getting better and have been fun to watch, but the gap between Big 10 and SEC has probably GROWN since the NC beatdowns.
I'm wondering if the homers on this site watch anyone else play on Saturdays. Are we better than Oregon too? Do you think we could beat Oklahoma this year? Clemson? Fla State?
We have to get better before we start running our mouths. Right now we are an up and coming team with ONE good win under our belts ... Nebraska.
Oklahoma, Clemson and Florida State...... hell yes.
Less than 10 months ago, OSU lost to Florida by 7 points. Since that time Florida has gotten better, however OSU has gotten alot better as well.
OSU has Braxton a year better, better coaches at most positions, and Hyde running strong. So, in 10 months has Florida gotten a hell of a lot better than OSU has gotten?
Since Florida has beat Texas AtM, LSU and South Carolina, I'd think it reasonable that OSU would have a puncher's chance in the SEC.
edit: Florida had a blocked punt returned for a TD, and a 99 KO return for a TD to beat the Buckeyes by 7 in the Gator Bowl, in the State of Florida, in case you forgot.
@jester
strange, I remember reading something recently about a DT and a CB from OSU that are Both projected first round. But that can't b as important as two DEs right?
@goldenbear
alabama is better at every position based on what, exactly? Do you have the positional rankings you can share? Maybe you're just overwhelmed by Alabama's incredible schedule? Look at those quality wins...riiiggghhhtttt.....
Look, I personally think Alabama is a better team than OSU. However, I also think better doesn't mean a damn thing in a game- its all about matchups of personnel and scheme. Alabama has shown weaknesses where Ohio State has strengths. I don't know if we'd win or lose- that's unknowable- but I do know that the perception of Alabama is exactly that. Perception. They haven't beaten anybody that shows they are in some way dominant.
There are many "homers" on this site for sure, folks who thin our Bucks will win no matter what or against who just because they want them to win. However, just as bad in my opinion are those who jus accept the media hype without question.
Alabama's one solid win is against LSU. LSU has what solid win outside of the SEC? What solid win does Georgia have outside the SEC? south Carolina?
There is no evidence on the field this year that the SEC is any better than any other conference. In fact, some of he games (ULL this weekend for one) suggest that this is a weak year for the SEC. If the SEC isn't any better than the other conferences, then what has Alabama proven? LSU? South Carolina?
Why do you assume OSU can't hang with those teams? You point out OSU's less than stellar wins -all wins by the way- but give Alabama a complete pass on theirs.
I am not sure why everyone is all up in arms about the rankings. I look at this years ban as a blessing for UFM. It gives him a chance to settle in and get his staff and players up to speed with the new system before having to worry about rankings and post season play. Realistically I don't think OSU is ready to take on any of the teams in the top 5 except for possibly Notre Dame. If you look at how teams play rather than just their record I think you will agree that most of those teams are more complete than the Buckeyes right now. Does anyone really think we could beat Alabama or Oregon or even Georgia right now?
Yes there are two Buckeyes in Ann arbor on this site!
@Annarbor
good points. Upvote
I would take us in a game against Alabama, Notre Dame, Florida, or LSU.
I would not take us against Oregon or Kansas State.
I am undecided about Georgia.
I would bet my annual salary on us in a game against South Carolina.
I have not seen enough of Florida State to judge.
Thats te current BCS top ten.
I'm not a "homer". I thought we'd struggle against Cal at the time and was the harbinger of doom against UCF. I picked Texas A+M to beat Bama on this board, and I've said on this board that Oregon will lose to Oregon State (although it might be Stanford instead). It's about matchups, not talent.
You would really take us in a game against Bama? Just looking at the talent and experience, it's really hard for me to come to that conclusion.
Yup. they are a run based team, and that is the one thing our defense plays very, very well against.
Our offense can score on anyone when it clicks. If it doesn't click, we'd lose. If we came out flat, we'd lose. Can't have a down quarter.
I just think they are the perfect team for us to play. It is funny, but our team this year matches up really well withe the good SEC teams.
Not so well with the good non-SEC teams.
We havn't faced a rushing attack anywhere near as talented as Alabama's. When I go through the respective depth charts of both teams, I see very large talent deficiencies. I think it's just hard for me to take what I've seen on the field this year, and think we would win that game. But to each his own.
From a schematic perspective, I believe Oregon would be a much greater challenge for OSU than Alabama would.
My point was never that OSU is a "better" team than Alabama. They probably aren't. However, OSU deserves to be ranked higher. They have one good win (same as Bama), a comparable schedule, and no losses. Even if Bama is all-world, they have not earned their current ranking. In my book, you don't get to be ranked highly simply by being a better team. Better teams lose all the time and they pay the price for it in the rankings. Bama deserves some respect for the win at LSU, but nothing else they have have done this season has been all that impressive.
^^^^Game, set, and match, JohnBlair!! I'm growing tired of the SEC love fest. If I didn't know better, I'd think that none of the current Buckeye players could even start for an SEC team. The separation between tOSU and the SEC hasn't been athletic, it's been coaching. Run down the list of players and tell me how many couldn't have played in the SEC. Beanie Wells couldn't have played for Alabama? Tedd Ginn? Hawk? Shazier? Nobody could have played at Florida? Miller? Roby? Jenkins? We've got talent at tOSU and we always have. When we win these last two games, pick a team and line them up. This Team and this Staff aren't going to embarrass anyone
An angry fan...rooting for an angry team...led by angry coaches
You think OSU's schedule has been comparable to Alabama's? I'm not trying to be demeaning, but how can you really believe that?
You are nothing more the a delusional HOMER if you think we would stand a chance against Alabama!! Get a grip. As much as I love the Buckeyes...Bama would beat us down. Oregon would win by 25. I do think we could beat ND though, based on the matchups. Be thankful for a great season. But if we were bowl eligible we wouldn't stand a chance of winning a National Championship game!
I think Texas A&M is better than many people thought this year. Not only is their QB a lot like Braxton (but a better passer at this point than Braxton) but in the two losses they do have, they were by only a couple of points against LSU and Florida. I don't think we could beat A&M this year either. I'm not trying to get down on our Buckeyes, but we just aren't a great team this year. We are a very good team (and getting better every week) in a terribly average conference. We have had some mediocre wins against mediocre teams and some great wins over some decent teams but we haven't beaten anybody that blows me away. To think we could take on and win against most of the top teams just seems unrealistic. I guess we really won't know just how good this team is until next year when we not only have a favorable schedule but we can play in the post season. I wouldn't be surprised if we went back to back undefeated (regular) seasons. The BCS should be interesting next year.
Yes there are two Buckeyes in Ann arbor on this site!
I don't think Alabama's schedule has been anything special. They've basically only played two good teams- LSU and Texas A+M. They lost one of those and the other was within four points.
We've played one good team- Nebraska. I'm inclined to say LSU would pummel Nebraska.
Again, it's about matchups not talent. It's about comparing the specifics of what we do well and what they do well.
And you're not being demeaning btw- you can tell me I'm nuts if you think so. we're both just sharing opinions here. No harm done.
And I'm with you on A+M. I think the Aggies would whip us. They're a worse matchup for us than even Oregon.
CPlunk I love your optimism. I just see it a little differently. For me, a lot of this is about the eye-test. I've watched all of Bama's games this year except for one, and obviously I've seen all of ours. The two teams are just not the same in terms of talent. Look at the back 7 alone. It's night and day. We don't have one position group that would favor us. Would Braxton make some plays? Sure. But physically, Alabama would dominate.
Delusions can go both ways.
Although I agree that Bama would likely beat Ohio State this year, it's also delusional to suggest that Bama would have almost zero chance of losing to Ohio State. Bama would be favored by about 8 or 9-pts on a neutral field. Well, 9-pt favorites win about 80-percent of the time.
It's also delusional to suggest that Bama is better at every position compared to Ohio State except QB.
@buckeyeinannarbor I think that they are comparable in that they are both pretty weak schedules. LSU is better than anyone we have faced. A&M is probably a bit better than Nebraska but are pretty similar teams. They lost to A&M; we beat down Nebraska. By the time we play Wisconsin and Michigan, I think our schedule stacks right up if its not tougher. They are playing Western Carolina and Auburn for reference.
Fair enough. What OSU position group would you take over Bama's?
@ Cajun. Seems we can't have an opinion about this, unless you say OSU would beat every team in the top10, or lose to every team in the top 10. 10 Months ago we were on the field with an SEC team down in Florida, and should have won!!! We have a new offense and Urban Meyer pulling the strings.
I'm not one to guarantee wins or losses, because anything can happen. I don't think OSU would beat Oregon or Alabama, but to say they absolutely wouldn't isn't correct either.
Braxton Miller is a stud, and OSU has a chance to win any game in which he plays.
@Buckeyeinannarbor
You're right though that it is nice this is a practice year. Nice to give Urban a year to implement things and start recruiting his guys. I think we might really miss the extra bowl game practices though.
and I'm not about to dispute Bama's back seven. Their two corners are flat out sick. If we relied on the pass (ala West Virginia) we would stand absolutely zero chance. The only wa to open the pass against Bama is to have a great running game. Or to have Johnny Football, apparently.
in any case it's all just-for-fun talk. All that really matters is beating Wisky and that other school.
I agree that Braxton gives us a chance to win in any match up, he is an absolute stud. Where the BIG has been lacking against top tear teams in the past has mostly been speed on the perimiter. That is something UFM has been adressing and my guess is it will make us very competative with SEC teams along with Oregon. For what we have to work with right now I think OSU is playing extremely well. Certianly well enough to run the table this year. I don't think the next 2 games will be that close.
Yes there are two Buckeyes in Ann arbor on this site!
I think the next two weeks will tell us a little bit more about the team. Right now, based on past performances, I cannot see us competing with a team like Alabama or Oregon.
Wait, there's an "Ann Arbor Buckeye" AND a "BuckeyeinAnnArbor"?
how do you two survive up there?
You're lookin at it.
Just check out the fake BCS rankings and see where TOSU is ranked.You can bet we would not be happy.I still think it's going to be GOBAMA and ND for all the marbles, and in January GOBAMA will be anointed for a SECond term.GO BUCKS!
I wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then.
Haha, well played, sir.
You think both Oregon and K State will lose, but ND won't? Dang. I really hope that doens't happen.
Why don't you enlighten me on the great talent gaps, for I am only a tOSU homer. Maybe I could then have a better knowledge of vastly superior athletes of the SEC in comparison to our lowly Buckeyes. Hankins is #2 on the latest list for the NFL draft. Run down your research.
An angry fan...rooting for an angry team...led by angry coaches
Buckeyeinannarbor: I was really directing my comment at the guy above who stated that Bama was better at every position, not position group. Individually, off the top of my head, some obvious answers are Braxton, Hankins, C. Linsley, Z Boren (FB), Stoneburner (TE), CJ Barnett.
Then, you get to the Buckeye #1 guys who are better than Bama's #2 guys (i.e. would start for Bama over other current Bama starters): Mewhort (could play RT), Roby (could play second CB).
Lastly, there are Buckeye players who might be currently ranked below Bama "on paper," but might end having something to say about that. Are we sure that Hyde wouldn't be a nice asset to Bama? Shazier? Our young TEs are probably potentially better than Bama's starting TE. Philly Brown is coming along. John Simon would be in Bama's DL rotation. A lot teams, maybe even including Bama, would kill for a viper like Nathan Williams, even if they only played him on 3rd and longs. It's just a fluke that Bama happens to be the one team in America that would have Norwell on the bench.
CPLUNK I survive up here by spending A LOT of time on 11W and watching ESPNU. These last 10 years of Tressel haven't been so bad though LOL. Most of my Tsun friends have toned down their retoric since they can't seem to beat us anymore. I sure would like to be able to make it to a game sometime in Cbus though.
Yes there are two Buckeyes in Ann arbor on this site!
I would, but I'd undoubtedly be called a troll if I do.
More power to you both. Behind Enemy Lines. Like Owen Wilson. But without the banged up nose.
Fido your obvious answers are far from obvious to me. Oh well. Time to get back to work. Let's see what happens the next two weeks.
OT (sort of): I was susprised to see Wisc open as 1/1.5-pt favorites at home against Ohio State.
I guess the Vegas linesmakers were impressed by Bucky's blowout of Indy. They shouldn't read too far into that game. It was Indy's first "big game" that had serious, championship ramifications in like 20 years. Naturally, their sphincters shrunk to the occasion. Meanwhile, Bert's teams love nothing better than to play the bully. If you let them push you around and get up on you early, they'll get their courage up.
Anyway, this line should make it easier for me to cash in around the office. Except that the Buckeye haters in my office won't take Wisc straight up. They'll want points, anway.
They honestly aren't going to move Georgia or Ohio State ahead of Bama. Especially, when Ohio State was on a bye. I said last night they would be 4. I'm surprised this is a shock to anyone. I do think Georgia could beat them in the SEC title game though.
Run Fido, you can't argue with the experts.
An angry fan...rooting for an angry team...led by angry coaches
Texas A&M showed why the SEC does not schedule tough out of conference games. Yes, they are currently part of the SEC, but is it really a stretch to think another A&M type team from another conference wouldn't be able to expose the SEC, like A&M did to Bama? They can't hide behind their myth that all SEC teams are superior to other teams in other conferences, which is why they don't schedule OOC games.
A&M enters the SEC, puts a big scare into LSU and Florida, and knocks off Bama. And it's the first year they're in the SEC, the first time they've had a shot at these teams. Coincidence? Don't think so.
Would like to see all commentors here, list their top ten.
Or top 5.
AJ McCarron is garbage, and is a liability for that football team. As far as I'm concerned they're not a top-5 team...their offense is worthless.
Alabama is not a Top 5 team. They are a fringe top 5 team. They have to play:
FCS Western Carolina
Auburn AKA the worst team in the SEC
Georgia (Trust me, they aren't losing to Auburn)
Even with those wins, they still shouldn't be a top 3 team.
/Duff'd It
Laughing at the scheduling argument:
'Bama beats Michigan by 30, Tennessee, Missouri and Miss St by 40, and folks on this site say the schedule is comparable (it's not ) and the PERFORMANCE is comparable (it's NOT).
Fido and company are right to love Boren ... I do too. But he'd never be recruited to 'Bama and he'd never sniff the field. Simon and Hankins the same. Roby would be the 11th fastest DB. I love overachievers and I love the Buckeyes but they are a full level below Alabama at every position except QB, and their QB is obviously chosen as an analytical type that can manage the game and the 20 five-stars around him.
@goldenbearbuckeye
Roby would be the 11th fastest DB on Bama but he's being projected to go in the late first round/early second round of the NFL draft? What do you know that NFL scouts are missing? And why did Bama, Georgia, and Auburn offer him?
Hankins would barely sniff the field but he's being projected to go in the first five picks of the draft? strange that Alabama offered and pursued him if he wouldnt play there.
Boren as a FB is one of the best blockers in college football- trust me, Alabama would love to have him blocking in their running game. As an LB? He'd never play a down, you're right on that one.
Ryan Shazier was recruited by Bama. He visited LSU. He was headed to Florida until Meyer resigned.
Nathan Williams was recruited by Georgia, Oklahoma, and that vaunted Notre Dame defense. Simon was recruited for that D, too. Garrett Goebel too, in addition to his pursuit by Tennessee. Christian Bryant also.
Adolphus Washington was recruited by both teams in that Bama-A+M game you just watched.
Noah Spence? Recruited by every SEC school. All of them.
Travis Howard? Maybe you forget that his other choice was Florida.
CJ Barnett? Florida State and several SEC schools.
Etienne Sabino? It came down to us, Florida, or a little school out west called USC.
That's just the defense. Offense? Corey Brown recruited by Georgia and South Carolina.
SToneburner would not play? Weird that Florida, USC and Oklahoma State ( do they play any offense?) all went after him.
Carlos Hyde? Florida, Florida State, and Clemson.
Rod Smith? Oklahoma, Texas, Arkansas, Tennessee.
Braxton Miller? Name a school. Any school. They all wanted him, Bama included.
Look, Bama has lots of talent, but stop underestimating our players! They are not overachievers. They are underachievers. There is a reason OSU has put more players into the league than anybody but Miami in the BCS era. There is a reason our recruiting classes are perpetually rated so high. We're not getting the scrubs that Bama didn't want. We're getting guys Bama did want.
The talent gap is not what you think it is.
GoldieBear, you've got to stop believing Steve Spurrier! No matter what he tells you, Alabama would never beat an NFL team. Not every Alabama player is a first round draft choice either. CPLUNK, great post. There are quite a few people posting about the vast talent gap, but will only post their opinion and not facts. The buckeyes have talent!
An angry fan...rooting for an angry team...led by angry coaches
Texas a&m has the best offensive line in the country. Dominating the trenches is alabamas signature and it was clear they were lost without that advantage. I dont think the media is ready to "vote out" the sec of the championship game though.
The Media is doing what ever it can to keep the SEC in the mix, the top 10 is filled with putrid garbage like Florida, S. Car, LSU and Georgia.
Tomorrow
CPlunk I'm not sure it makes a lot of sense to point out which schools recruited players to show their level of talent. We've seen them all play by now.
There seems to be an upswing in completely delusional football fans on this website lately.
So am I delusional for thinking the games would actually be worth watching and that we have a chance (maybe a good chance) to play well and win against anyone in the country?
It might be an upset, but hey, upsets happen. I would rather have faith in my team and their ability to come together and pull off a tough win then arbitrarily say "They'd lose, you guys are silly for thinking otherwise."
I'm not gonna sit here and argue that they should be number one, because they aren't there yet, but I'm also not going to ever believe that this team doesn't at least have a chance of winning.
You can kill a fly with your slipper or a cannon. Either way, the fly dies. -Ramzy
a lot of good discussion here about the SEC being good or over rated or just plain garbage, and thats good stuff. maybe next year, there can be a weekly post for fans to give their top 5 or top ten.
right now for instance
1. ksu 2. oregon 3. alabama 4. georgia 5. tosu
I don't think you can say we would have no chance against Alabama. As long as Braxton is on the field I feel we have a chance against anyone (except Oregon and maaaybe KSU because Brax can't be out there on defense too...or can he...). Anywho, Alabama is most definitely a superior team to us. Which isn't to say that we can't beat them. If I was betting my own money though, I'd most definitely take 'Bama. The thing that baffles me is when people mention the matchups and say how well we did against MSU because we match up with them so much better. Welllll, we only beat MSU by one point. Alabama has a superior offensive line than MSU, a superior receiving corps by far, a significantly better option at QB and a better stable of backs (MSU just has Bell) that combine speed and power (Yeldon and Lacy). Oh yea, and as good as we think MSU's defense is...there's no question, Bama's is better. I'm just trying to be realistic here. Of course we could beat Alabama...but to expect us to beat Alabama and even say it wouldn't even be close...you're getting into homer territory.
For everyone saying the SEC is garbage and that their teams shouldn't be all over the top 10, who would you put there instead? EVERYONE on this site rips FSU every week and Clemson has 1 loss but that came to FSU. Oklahoma lost to the 2 very good teams they played AT HOME. I hardly think Nebraska is a top 10 team. Oregon State? Stanford? I just don't see it with those squads either. Louisville was undefeated, but honestly they got dominated by a team that isn't very good this Saturday. I mean, who of all these other schools do you insert ahead of LSU, Georgia, Florida, and A&M? I can agree on South Carolina and they'll likely drop another game before the year is over, but I just want to know who in the group behind these schools that are supposedly garbage are more deserving of a top 10 nod in your opinion?
I agree Albert. I despise the SEC and am sick of hearing about how it's God's gift to football. But in order to escape hearing about it all the time 2 things would have to happen : 1. I would need to move away from Tennessee, and 2. The league would need to start sucking. Unfortunately neither of those are gonna happen anytime soon.
While I hate the SEC, I respect it for being a tough and competitive league. Those SEC teams may not be as good as they are ranked, but who do you put in front of them?
I really don't understand why people hate the SEC so much. Is it because they are so good? Is it because they have conference solidarity? Is it because they are cocky? I get frustrated because they have smoked everyone for the past 6 years but at the end of the day that is an impressive run. If they Big Ten won 6 NC's in a row I can only assume Big Ten fans would be just as obnoxious but I could be wrong.
People think it's some ESPN agenda to push the SEC, but really it's ESPN's agenda to push the best product they can. ESPN is heavily invested in all the major BCS conferences, and if it were the ACC, B1G, or Big 12 who were dominant they'd be cramming those programs down our throats. Just look at their coverage of basketball. It used to be the ACC was king and everyone else stunk, then it was the Big East. Last year the B1G basketball got a lot of press. I expect with Pitt and Syracuse moving to the ACC their coverage will be focused back on the ACC.
Bottom line, conferences ties are polarizing. If one is the best in the business and everyone else hates that conference it's good for ratings to push that conference. If the Big 10 were on top right now, EVERYONE in the south would be raising a fit because those teams don't play anyone! yet we'd be hearing how there are no better venues than B1G venues, and that the South's style of play doesn't match the north etc.
Even if the SEC doesn't get in the title game this year, which I don't think they will with Bama's loss, reputations aren't built in one year. This is the reason I think people are dumb who see a team do well one season and then proclaim they are "back" (I'm pointing directly at you Michigan & Notre Dame). Regardless of who wins the championship this year, I don't think their conference will suddenly take over as the dominant conference in the country. Let's see a conference do it year in and year out.
I honestly doubt the B1G will ever be thought of in the same light as the SEC. Perception is everything, and the perception of the B1G is that there are a few teams at the top and the rest are lousy. The perception of the SEC is that weak in and weak out they are a tough and competitive conference with many good teams.
BuckeyeStu is close to my thinking as to who is best now.
Hate ND, but based on what they have done, they should be higher and agree that OSU should be top 5 based on record.
1. KSU 2. Oregon 3. ND 4. Alabama 5. OSU
But based on who I would bet on:
1. Alabama 2. Oregon 3. KSU 4. USC 5. Georgia 6. LSU 7. Fla St. 8. Clemson 9. A&M 10. OSU
USC is the team that has done the least with the most. I might even feel sorry for NDame in 2 weeks when SC plays the game they should've in a couple weeks. Best talent in the country ... better than 'Bama or Texas
Even when the B1G was very good through the 90's southern fans always claimed there was more speed in the SEC, they played tougher teams etc. That group of fans is always, no matter how right or wrong they are, going to brag about being the best and that other top teams don't play anyone.
If the B1G were winning BCS bowls and winning or competing for titles, they'd get more than enough media coverage, but fans in other regions would say, much like us B1G fans say right now, they aren't that good.
Here are the remaining games for Oregon, K-State, and Notre Dame. Who do you guys think is more likely to lose this season?
Oregon - Stanford, @ Oregon State, Pac 12 Championship
K- Sate - @ Baylor, Texas
Notre Dame - Wake Forest, @ USC
For me, I can totally see Notre Dame and Oregon losing.
people do realize that Florida State laced em up against North Carolina State with BCS NC hopes on the line and crapped out. Va Tech almost beat Florida State, would anyone here take Va Tech's roster and QB over OSU's roster and QB?
Anyone here not think that OSU could beat Notre Dame?
Who thinks Florida is much better than Ohio State? 10 month's ago OSU was a blocked punt returned for a TD and a 99 K.O return for a TD away from beat Florida by 7 down in Florida. OSU outgained Florida, Braxton had better numbers than Florida's QB, and now we have a better offense and Urban Meyer as our head coach. So any reasonable person would have to think OSU and Florida are pretty close to being similar teams, and Florida has beaten LSU, South Carolina and Tex AtM, so please connect the dots.
None of those teams are ranked ahead of Ohio State in the AP poll though, and I don't do transitive property to predict outcomes, if that's what you are even trying to do. I'm not sure I understand. I don't think, though, because we almost beat Florida last year, who beat A&M, who beat Bama means much of anything though.
http://insider.espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8621353/ncf-debat...
espn article from kiper/mcshay about the debate if Bama should go to title game.
if you dont have insider, Kiper basically says that Bama should because they are best team in best conference, and that they have done enough to deserve it. McShay plays indefferent, blaming the system in place more than anything. He says its hard to tell the best team from the best conference no, but said it is harder to say no to undefeated, bcs conference school.
well, IMO, I think OSU would get beat by K-state, Oregon and 'Bama.... LSU too. However, My post is in response to people who think OSU isn't competetive with the SEC's top teams and the ACC's 2 top teams.
If you don't do transitive property, then OSU being undefeated, so far, speaks for itself. What does a team losing a game mean to you? They are beatable? yep.
Did you watch last year's Gator Bowl? Was there a gap between the talent on the field? No. OSU is better than last year's team.
Hope for a victory in Madison......Go Bucks!
also, not trying to be an idiot here, we are debating a poll system consisting of voters who had:
now 3 loss Southern Cal #1 not too long ago
now 4 loss West Virginee #4 1 month ago
Michigan preseason top 10
the Heisman to Geno Smith not long ago
What impact (national perception or otherwise) does having a first year team (aTm) come into the best league and beat the best team at their home? (not to mention fare awfully well against the balance of the schedule?)
downvoters are out of control.....
edit: ^example...
"Winter is coming" - Urban Meyer
Kiper just a few weeks back was talking about how Bama was definitely not invincible and he even basically said while being a very good team, they weren't really that much better than a handful of other teams out there. I guess when you are paid to talk about sports every day, you have come up with material, you end up contradicting yourself.
Bama is still probably a top five team so meh. However, when pollsters rank OSU so low I don't get it. They say "strength of schedule" and "quality of wins" but these are the same people that put Boise State and TCU high in the rankings despite who they were playing in the past. That is what gets old. The double standards we all see. A Bama-LSU match up last year was quickly accepted but a Mich-OSU rematch back when they were 1-2 was quickly dismissed as "Mich had their chance - we don't want to see a rematch." Of course we then blew the title game that year but that is not my point. Lol.
To All: Thank you for the grown up discussion. Even though we had differing opinions, used posts to convey our points and now down votes.
~Because we couldn't go for three~