Not trying to be a moron here, or show any disrespect to the 2002 Buckeyes. I wouldn't change one single thing from the magical 2002 season, just curious how you see the teams, players and positions comparing, because I don't think all the 2002 Buckeyes would start for the 2012 team.
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Braxton at QB, though Krenzel is the Man.
Could see Boren at fullback
Sorry Urban, Woody is still my favorite
QB - Braxton (though it's a toss up)
DT - Big Hank (at 1 of 2 DT positions)
CB - Roby (2 CB or Nickel Corner)
imo, of course
It would depend on who was coaching. If Tressel was coaching, Krenzel would have started because he was a senior, we all remember how that goes. If Urbs was coaching, Braxton would have started (BTW, Krenzell carried the ball 15 times that game for 82 yards) because he"has more talent than Tebow." If Fickell was coaching...Bauserma......nm, we wouldn't have made the NC game.
Hankins and Miller. That's it.
I think Simon would play A LOT and so would Williams. I think Tress would find a spot for Roby and Shazier too. They would get reps. That 2002 team had a lot of dudes get drafted if I am not mistaken. Can you imagine Clarrett and Braxton in the same backfield? Wow...
Braxton, Hankins, probably Boren at FB, not sure anyone else would start. You could argue Roby might be the nickel back if we played a more traditional nickel corner at that point. There are also guys like Simon who would be in the rotation but not any other clear starters in my opinion. This is a bit of a rebuilding period talent-wise, especially in terms of depth. We just happen to have a stud at QB who fits our new coach's system and a few other guys carrying things.
Shazier wouldn't sniff the field if he was at Will LB, Cie Grant (senior) and AJ Hawk (freshman) at that position. That's not a knock on Shazier at all.
I agree that Hankins, Williams and Roby would get playing time, I think Hyde and Rod Smith would get reps when Clarett had shoulder issues, over Hall and Ross. Stoneburner would sub for Hartsock over Hamby and Devin Smith would play, if he got more consistent CATCHING passes.
Kinda shows how much work our current Buckeyes have to do to get to Championship Level, and I think they can/will in time.
Funny to think you would start Braxton Miller over a NC winning QB, a future Heisman winner in Smith and good passing backup Scott McMullen, but Miller may just be THAT good.
Not many, Miller and Hankins all I'd be comfortable with.
Others to think of:
Simon over Scott at DE?
D Smith over Drew Carter/C Gamble at WR?
Hyde over Ross RB?
I'd take Roby over Dustin Fox any day. I liked Fox but Roby is a stud. Hank could start over anyone not named Will Smith on the d-line. Braxton at QB, maaaaybe. I don't think Braxton flourishes in Tress' system in that pro-style offense at this point in his career. Maybe once Brax is a senior and a more polished passer but I don't think he'd be nearly the world beater he is trying to run that style. The real question is would Tress alter the system to more of a spread like he did Troy's senior year and during a lot of the Pryor games.
edit: wait Fox started on that team right?? Or am I going crazy?
One more thing...could you imagine, with all the other talent on that '02 defense, Ryan Damn Shazier playing WLB and just running around wreaking havoc?? He'd be like Cie Grant on roids.
Devin Smith over Chris Vance? Smith drops passes that hit his hands, but has long ball threat, Chris Vance wasn't thrown to much. Though this is for the 3rd WR, since Gamble played both ways. Smith, wouldn't start over Gamble at WR.
Fox started. Donnie Nickey did as well.
Bolt, we don't need a roid scandal now too, lol. Cie Grant as a senior > Shazier right now. That was a veteran rock-solid defense. I think Hankins is the only one who could really add any significant value to that D.
Roby over Fox? No way.
I would say almost ALL OF THEM start on 2002 team,
why?
How much do you think college football have progressed over the last decade across the board, including players conditioning, game knowledge and skill level.
Extreme cliche and irrelevent subject to begin with, I might add.
Hankins is the only one that would start I think.
Over one decade, I doubt we see much in the way of improvements to conditioning and skill level. The game doens't change that much.
I'd start Boren... and that's about it...
/Duff'd It
How much do you think college football have progressed over the last decade across the board, including players conditioning, game knowledge and skill level.
I'd say that argument works for the 80's, 70's, 60's and below. Sorry, 10 years is not very long in the grand scheme of things.
October 20th: National Kenneth Guiton Day
- Roby would start over Fox
- CJ Barnett would start over Nickey
- Hankins would start at one of the DT positions
- Shazier, as a sophomore this year, would start over Reynolds
- Nathan Williams and John Simon would get a lot of PT
- Braxton, while more talented than Krenzel, would probably not start over him due to how he would fit into the system that year.
Eh I don't think there is any way Roby or Shazier would start on that team. Maybe Barnett, but I doubt it. People tend to underestimate the skill of players from the past.
For all of you taking Boren over Brandon Joe, pass the pipe please!
Roby is a Thorpe candidate and likely future first-rounder if he continues to progress; Fox was a serviceable corner but not a great one by any means. Shazier and Robert Reynolds aren't even in the same league either when it comes to ability and impact. I think Shazier would start over Reynolds and Barnett over Nickey any day of the week. Just my opinion of course, but I guess that's the point of speculating.
edit: this was in response to Buckeyeinannarbor but I didn't know how to make it so.
Mewhort-O-line, Miller-QB, Boren-FB, Roby-DB, Simon-DL, Hankins-DL, Shazier-LB
Roby would start over Fox. That's about the only sure thing. There are several others that might start. I'm pretty sure Braxton would play over Krenzel. Krenzel is my all time fav Buck, so I don't say that lightly.
i feel like Devin Smith would see some time. Starting? Not sure.
Miller would prolly start at running back in that system. He wud split time with MoC.
"I'll fire when I'm god damn good and ready! You got that?" - Pete "Maverick" Mitchel
I really doubt Barnett would start over Nickey. Nickey was a four year starter and a captain for a reason.
Simon Frasier was a beast DE at 6'6" and 250lbs. He had an albatros's wing span and was only a sophomore. Darion Scott rotated between DE and DT. Simon would have gotten some play time..... would have been an interesting position battle to watch. Darion Scott played lights out at times in 2002.
Bobby Carpenter didn't start over Reynolds as a sophomore. No way Shazier would. Again, this isn't a slight to Shazier. I'm surprised all these people are forgetting how good that defense was and very much undervalue experience. This defense is nowhere near as good as that defense. Only Hankins is enough of a difference-maker to beat out anyone on that defense for sure and maybe Roby although Dustin Fox was a reliable upper-classman too and Gamble was a freak. Anyone who thinks our safeties are anywhere near as good as Nickey who was a captain on that team and got drafted in the 5th round, I can't really understand.
That whole front four was drafted in the 3rd round or better (Will Smith 1st rounder). Everyone else on the starting defense was drafted before the 5th round when they went out. We had 14 players drafted in 2004... Only the 2005 defense had as much NFL talent on defense under Tressel.
Kenny Peterson and Tim Anderson were rocks at DT.
That defense was seasoned and tested. I am not sure I'd take any player on this team over that 2002 team. The most points they surrendered all year was 24, and that game went to OT. That Miami offense was loaded with NFL talent.
This is a fun game.
Hankins is a no brainer.
Roby over Fox is a no brainer
Miller over Krenzel is a possibility (I would start him, but I don't know if Tressel would have)
Simon over Scott is possible (maybe probable)
Boren over Joe I don't think is a no brainer, but is likely.
If Will Allen, the guy who made the hit on McGahee, and is still playing in the league couldn't beat out Nickey, I doubt Barnett would have.
Being a sophmore, I have some doubts that Shazier would start, but I think he is possible as well.
I like Hartsock, but all of these TE's are better. Stoneburner and Heurerman.
With the work that the OL's been doing lately, I'm surprised none of them are getting any love. I don't follow CFB to be able to really compare different OL players, especially separated by a decade. But it seems strange that no one even mentions a possible 2012 OL player starting over a 2002 one. I guess everyone else also struggles to compare OL players.
Take the uber talented Clarrett and 5.6 ypc average out of the 2002 mix and a respectable rushing offense would be hurting. Granted, Hall and Ross weren't all that great to begin with and quality depth behind MoC was lacking. Additionally, three of the 2002's OL were drafted and all had pretty short NFL careers, to be fair I think injuries played their part in cutting them short. I imagine the NC probably improved their stock and maybe gave them a shot in the NFL that they otherwise wouldn't have gotten.
The 2012 OL boasts three players with meaningful carries who avg over 5 ypc with one player near that mark (Hyde's 4.8) and Dunn who only got 12 touches but still posted a 5 ypc avg. Compare that to 2002 which could only boast MoC over 5 ypc and one near that mark (Hall 4.7). I couldn't find sacks allowed statistics for 2002, but the 2012 group has been giving up 2 sacks per game which is somewhat surprising. And I couldn't even find stats for the individual OL players. I'd imagine that a more polished QB would've felt some of that pressure and thrown some of those away. But BM's legs have saved him quite a few times, so that's kind of a wash.
So after a lot of stat digging, I'm kind of left in the same spot as I started in . . . clueless about which OL players were better. Still, I'm happy with the OL's progress this year considering how many sacks were given up last year, lack of depth behind the starters, and playing with a converted TE as the most notable of several position changes.
Agreed, our OL this year strikes me as much better than that line. I was REALLY frustrated by that team's lack of ability to run-block. Clarett did so much almost by himself, the drop off after him was massive.
2002
Guards- Bryce Bishop, Adriene Clarke, Rob Sims
T- Shane Olivea
c- Alex Steponovich
tackle would be the spot the 2002 team needed improvement, and it's where the 2012 team is most challenged.
Obviously, 2002 wasn't THAT long ago, but I've always had trouble comparing players in any sport to their older counterparts.
For example, many consider Babe Ruth to be the best hitter of all-time. Put him in today's game, I think it would be a stretch to say he'd hit well in AA, let alone in the majors. Kids today are just so much bigger and faster, and better coached.
I wouldn't cheer for Michigan if they were playing the Taliban.
I'm shocked nobody mentioned Mike Doss. Come on guys and gals. He was a leader and a key part of that team. Oh and could tackle AND hit guys.
to me, when you start hitting the 20 year gap, things about comparing players definitely change. The first OSU game I went to was in 1987. I still have the program from that game, and just looking at the rosters, players 25 years ago are noticeably smaller in the OL and DL. That said, do bigger, faster players in competing units cancel each other out?
I think the reason he's not mentioned on this thread is because no one on the 2012 team could replace him. I think it's more of an honor that he's not mentioned.
Donnie Nickey played over Will Allen because Will Allen played the other safety spot behind Doss and then came in for nickel packages. Allen wasn't Donnie's backup he was Mike's and nobody was going to play over Doss. Nickey was alright at best. Will Allen was most definitely better than Nickey, he was an all-american in the one season he got to start because Doss was gone. Sure Nickey started 4 years but there was no one there in his freshman and sophomore seasons and they had no choice but to play him. He tended to get run over on just about every other play. Fox was solid but I think Roby is a stud right now. Cie Grant was good at playing weakside and just using his speed to cause havoc because everyone else was so good on the defense and occupied so much attention and blockers, Grant's job was just to run free when he didn't have a specific coverage assignment. Ryan Shazier is bigger, faster, meaner, hits harder etc. Shazier gets himself into trouble sometimes in this defense because he has much more responsibility as the best LB and gets more attention and he sometimes gets undisciplined and tries to just run free. Imagine him just running free and blowing people up on that '02 team. I'm not saying it's a lock but I think him replacing Grant on that team could be awesome.
Darrion Scott and Tim Anderson any day over Big Hank. Those guys made Miami's offensive line eat crap for almost the entire game !!!!!! Then add Kenny Peterson and Big Wiil "The Beast" Smith to the contest? Simon could hang strength wise for sure, but has no where near the lateral quickness of these four. Roby is a possible because of cover skills, but just now learning how to tackle.
Anderson may be the only one I'd take over Hank on the d-line (I'm not even including Will Smith in this because I wouldn't trade him for anyone). Maybe. Peterson really just had the one monster game against Miami and that seemed to be because they overlooked him compared to the other studs on the D-line and didn't take him as seriously as they should've. He was a good solid player but he's no Hankins. Again Darrion Scott was good, but let's be honest here...Hankins is pretty much a consensus top 10 pick in the NFL draft this year.